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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:So in the last week, I've lost two patients, both of them very nice gentlemen who were kind enough to give me some words of advice as they lay on their death beds. (Always listen to a dying man. They don't waste time; they get straight to the point and say what's important.)

In spite of all this, I have no new insights into death or thoughts on it other than that I'm not afraid of it. I'm afraid of suffering, disability, pain, but not death. I have seen Death, I have looked Him in the eyes, and He is kind and gentle.

And those are my only thoughts on death.

What are your thoughts on death?


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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GottaLoveIt


GottaLoveIt

Sponge
Location: Stevenage

Total posts: 883
Posted:I'm not sure about death, I think it would be an experience, like the summing up of your life. Death is a part of life as life is a part of death. One can't exist without the other at the moment and even if it did, I wouldn't want to be the immortal one.
As much as I accept that death is a part of life, I still won't stop missing those that are dead.
I haven't had any personal experience of seeing death or the dead. I'm not sure I want any, but I know that if it happens, that will be an experience too. I just won't look at it like it's an experience at the time. I have no idea how I'd react.

I still like looking at life more so than I do death because life just seems more enjoyable. It's a big ol' adventure and I love it smile


Monkeys monkeys and bananas

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Shawnie
GOLD Member since Mar 2004

Captain Shawnie the Dreaded


Total posts: 126
Posted:Who was it that said "Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troubling" ?

I have no idea who said it but I find it to be true. As sad is it can be, it's always a relief when an old person who's been suffering passes away. Sad but peaceful. It brings an expected closure to their life and adventures. In some cases though, it's not quite that way. Like when a child dies in an accident. That's not so peaceful and it seems as though the closure of that person's life comes quite a while after their actual death.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that, as we know, every person has a very unique life. And just as everybody is born and lives, everybody dies too. And everybody has a unique death too.

Does anything I've just said actually make any sense to anybody? Hope so.


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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:It's inevitable so I don't think it's worth wasting time thinking about (unless avoiding it maybe) until you have to. I don't think His eyes even exist.

Let's relight this forum ubblove

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:Quote:
I have seen Death, I have looked Him in the eyes, and He is kind and gentle



I both agree and disagree with the above statement, Lightning.

From the point of view of the person who died, it would appear that death kind and gentle.

From the point of view of all those who love them, death can be horrible, cruel and require a lifetime of mourning.

It's unfortunate that death affects so many people in so many ways. Even the old spinster with no family who dies peacefully at 103 CAN (not will) have a profound effect on those who must bury her, go through her things and generally find out through the course of their job that she died alone and unloved.

On the other hand, the young vibrant sports star who dies at 22, at the peak of his career, with an entire nation mourning at his funeral...is he any better off then her? Now that they are both gone, did his life count more than hers, did it create more good, less good or are their lives incomparable?

I find death on it's own is purely meaningless, as a subject or term without any social histpory behind it.

To me, death is an individual, personal and unique as the person whom it has claimed...

(in my opinion)...


HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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FireSpirit
SILVER Member since Mar 2001

FireSpirit

Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
Location: South Lake Tahoe

Total posts: 743
Posted:Im always up for a Great Adventure! and Death will be the Last Great adventure in this body of mine, I just hope its quick and fun and hell ( "the 22 year old in a fast car"), and I hope my next body treats me as well as this one... I see you point though Charles, Death will take us all, and only hurt the folks around us afterwards. Thats why I document everything, in journals and in photo albums, so everyone will know I had a Great Life and to Celebrate it, not morn it.



I feel life is an Evolution of the Spirit, and that Death is just an end of this body and a beginning of a next. What I haven't learned in this life time I hope to in the next.

I do not fear death, but I do fear the pain of getting old. My grand father is 98 years old, and all of his friends have died around him, even his wife, whom he had been with since age 17. I don't know If I would want to watch as my friends died off, and I was left alone, not able to do much with my old age but watch TV. I am an active Adventours man, who wants to be outside and active!



Getting old will Suck more than dieing for sure!!


FIRE IS ALIVE!
IT LIVES AND BREATHS!
IT CONSUMES, AND DISTROYS!
BUT WE CONTROL IT,
AND DANCE WITH FIRE!!

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Mand
SILVER Member since Oct 2003

Mand

Keeper of the Spitfire
Location: Calgary Canada

Total posts: 2317
Posted:Good answer Charles. clap
I don't always think that death seems kind and gentle- even from the point of view of the person who is dying/ who has died. Maybe it did from the point of view of the person in Lightning's story.
It all depends on the situation.

I think if you know that it's your time to go, and have accepted that, then it's more calming, kind, and gentle.
But having been within an arm's reach of it myself, I know it scared the living censored out of me.
Without getting back into the gritty details too much of what happened (its all been said before), lying on the road, losing a scary amount of blood, along with chunks of my body, and feeling myself slip away... well I'm not religious, but that was the first time I properly prayed to a god of some sort. And the only time I've ever truly fought for my life. I was still young (18), and wasn't ready to go anywhere.
For me, for what I experienced, and for the people around me, this was far from having any connections with anything kind and gentle. But who knows... maybe the kind and gentle part was that I was spared and given another chance. wink

I do believe though that death can be kind, gentle, and even welcomed by those who have suffered (eg. terminal illness sufferers), or by the old, who usually grow to accept when their time is near.
I'd fully agree with Charle's last statement, that death is personal and unique- just like the person it claims.


Lets steal a spaceship and head for the sun, and shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.

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GottaLoveIt


GottaLoveIt

Sponge
Location: Stevenage

Total posts: 883
Posted:Quote:
Getting old will Suck more than dieing for sure!!







As much as I agree with the above statement, I have to disagree too, I'd love to watch my grandchildren grow and grow up, even if they were 'wrong uns' and yet I'd dispair watching everyone I love drop away around me. I guess there's a limit to everyone's life, I hope mine will be at the right time. But who knows when I'll die? I have to partly agree with Bug's statement. I'm not going to wittle my young life away worrying about death and "when will it happen to me?" but I still like to think about it... it's not one of those things that will go away smile



I think the idea of Death also revolves around the way the individual sees death themselves and of course, you can't just talk about death, (well I mean you can.... erm....) you have to realise that you're talking about a subject with your own personal and sometimes cultural background attatched to your own views. Which broadens out the whole subject. Including what you believe will happen after death, if anything and what happens for the individual in the run up to, or sudden death.



But opinions are what was being asked for, I'm not sure why I wrote the above. Back on topic.....

EDITED_BY: GottaLoveIt (1083352641)


Monkeys monkeys and bananas

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FireSpirit
SILVER Member since Mar 2001

FireSpirit

Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
Location: South Lake Tahoe

Total posts: 743
Posted:No I agree with you, I would like to see my children, and my childrens childern grow and learn, but Like Mod in "Hareld and Mod" I don't think I would like to live much passed 80 years. But I will die when I come to it...
As for what happens after death, no one really knows, but I think the bible is missing a few pages on Rencarnation and Karma (among other things)... Thats just my views biggrin


FIRE IS ALIVE!
IT LIVES AND BREATHS!
IT CONSUMES, AND DISTROYS!
BUT WE CONTROL IT,
AND DANCE WITH FIRE!!

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Quote:
But opinions are what was being asked for, I'm not sure why I wrote the above. Back on topic.....




I asked for thoughts on death. I don't think you were off-topic. hug


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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ASTRO FAERIE
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

ASTRO FAERIE

ummmmmmm.............
Location: Rotherham, UK

Total posts: 724
Posted:Well, as you know i lost my nan this week, so my thoughts have changed dramatically.
When i saw her 40 mins after she died, the body i saw was no longer my nan, as my nan was the spirit contained within her body.
I don't think that a soul as strong and as beautiful as hers can just dissappear into nothingness. I'm not sure that i beleive in heaven, but i know that if it exists my nan would be there at the top, dictating ubblol
But then i beleive that peoples souls and spirit live on through us, and so many people have told me how like my nan i am this last few days, that i feel proud to know that she made such an impact on my life that ive become like her.
This may be sentimental, but its a bit of a dedication to my nan, she really got excited about me 'spinning fire etc', she used to sit and watch col3 with me, so i feel its as good a place as any to say how i feel, thanx for creating this topic. hug ubblove


Only when the last tree has died
and the last river has been poisoned
and the last fish has been caught
will we realise that we
cannot eat money.

Cree Indian, 1909

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mrFlibble
SILVER Member since Mar 2003

Ghostbuster
Location: York, UK

Total posts: 455
Posted:I'm not afraid of being dead. Although i'm not keen on the dying bit. I dont think anything of you exists after you die. The universe will continue to exist without me to experience it, just as it existed for 13.7 billion years before i was born.

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PsychoTronic(old)


PsychoTronic(old)

member
Location: Samos-Piraeus-Athens_Greece

Total posts: 64
Posted:only dead men knows death but they dont care about death because they are already dead.I am afraid of death because is something i do not know and is the end of my life.I know it shall come one day and I hope it will be after a long long time though you can never know.I thank god i live and I like my life because i have the oprotunity to change things and have beautiful time,lots of love and experience.I am afraid of sickness and pain because they bring death to my mind. rolleyes

The only thing constant in life is change...

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:On the afternoon my father died, he came to visit me to say good-bye. I had just returned home to clean my room and arrange my things for the coming week, which I knew would be very busy.

When I walked into my room, I turned around; I don't know why, and there he was. Standing there. I knew my eyes weren't seeing him, but my third eye was. He was in his early 20's, wearing his Navy uniform, and grinning at me from ear to ear. I've seen old photos of him in his 20's, but those were in black and white. I saw him in living color, rosy cheeks, clean-shaven, young, healthy and strong. That was the last time I ever saw my father.

And ever since that moment, I haven't felt a moment's sadness for him. I miss him, but I'm so thrilled for him.

Look, I didn't even believe in all this crap. Neither did he. But I do now.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Dragon7
GOLD Member since Oct 2003

Dragon7

addict
Location: Aotearoa (NZ)

Total posts: 625
Posted:My Father died about 12+ years ago, and i think of him everyday, being Maori i totally believe that my ancestors stand with me in this world. When i was having trouble and was real down he came to me...and do you know what he said?

"harden up"

I dont know what the moral was, but it was cool.


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FireSpirit
SILVER Member since Mar 2001

FireSpirit

Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
Location: South Lake Tahoe

Total posts: 743
Posted:I feel I have a Guardian around me most of the time.

My father died when I was 5 yeas old. He was a police officer and died in the line of duty. I have always had good luck with the police, and I think it b/c of my father. I don't know however if he is always with me. It seems to me that I have a few voices wispering in my ear at different times in my life, and only when I am in a situation and really need them. I believe that we have a few guardians, and that they come and go, taking turns watching over us.

It is hard to loose a parent, But everything happens for a reason. I think I would have taken a much diffrent course in life if he was still alive. Probably not Fire Spinning, or skiing! eek I don't know who I would be today, probably more of a Manly Man, than a Ladys Man... ubblol

~Fire Spirit


FIRE IS ALIVE!
IT LIVES AND BREATHS!
IT CONSUMES, AND DISTROYS!
BUT WE CONTROL IT,
AND DANCE WITH FIRE!!

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ASTRO FAERIE
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

ASTRO FAERIE

ummmmmmm.............
Location: Rotherham, UK

Total posts: 724
Posted:I now beleive theres more, and as sad as i am, i know she'll always be with me. When she first found out her cancer was terminal, she told me not to worry and that she'd always be with me, and my nan never lied, so i know she's here biggrin.
I just look at it this way.....i now have my very own fairy-grandmother and it makes me feel all safe and warm knowing she'll still be here watching over me.
Shes not in any pain any more, and she's got her wish...to be with her mum again. hug ubblove


Only when the last tree has died
and the last river has been poisoned
and the last fish has been caught
will we realise that we
cannot eat money.

Cree Indian, 1909

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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1662
Posted:i think it was Robin Williams in hook who said;

Quote:
to die would be the greatest adventure of them all



i feel optimistic about death, if there's something after it then i think it could be very enlightening.


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:offtopic

My favorite line from "Hook" was when the captain was pointing the gun at his head and saying to his first mate:

"Don't try to stop me, Smee, don't try to stop me! Don't try to stop me!...

"Try to stop me, Smee. Get off your a$$ and stop me before I do it, Smee!" ubblol


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1662
Posted:offtopic (again)

i like the bit where smee's running off looking for smee and he goes
'hang on a minute, smee's me!!'

silly, but effective.


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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FireSpirit
SILVER Member since Mar 2001

FireSpirit

Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
Location: South Lake Tahoe

Total posts: 743
Posted:Thanks for the comic-relief... I love Hook! ubblol

FIRE IS ALIVE!
IT LIVES AND BREATHS!
IT CONSUMES, AND DISTROYS!
BUT WE CONTROL IT,
AND DANCE WITH FIRE!!

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Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3289
Posted:Death is the ultimate last word - just make sure youve said all you want to say before it comes knocking.

Josh



--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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MiG
GOLD Member since Apr 2004

MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG

Total posts: 3415
Posted:I'm going to have to agree with what someone said up there- im not scared of death, im just a bit worried about the transition between me living, and me being dead. as long as it isnt horribly slow and painful, then i dont think i mind.

"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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Kapura Mataaro


Kapura Mataaro

HoP resident longboarder.
Location: Tasmania, Australia

Total posts: 195
Posted:whats done is done...
i spend a lot of time avoiding this topic....whats done is done...i don't fear it and i don't fear the transition....but after seeing family members go, very very painfully it makes you wonder...friends, family....its all the same when you put them in the ground...i'm sorry...*shakes head and walks away from computer*


"surely a longboarding fire spinner should have no trouble getting some action!"- NYC....

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PsychoTronic(old)


PsychoTronic(old)

member
Location: Samos-Piraeus-Athens_Greece

Total posts: 64
Posted:frown

The only thing constant in life is change...

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:Quote:
I have seen Death, I have looked Him in the eyes, and He is kind and gentle.



I agree that he is kind and gentle.
I too have seen him. I have smelt him and I have come back from that experience.
It is the aftermath that hurts the people who are left behind. The death process is the cumulation of all the hard work that the spirit has put into this life lesson...

The hardest thing I have ever had to learn is that you come into this life alone, and you leave this life alone also. Nobody can make that journey with you. You touch people lifes around you and you make the most amazing alliances and love deeply with all of your heart, but they cannot save you, nor lessen the experience for you.

People who are left behind on the earthly plane are the ones who hurt, for their loss.. The spirit who leaves rejoices at the release, but in doing so they also have empathy for the people left behind and try in many different way to comfort those left...through songs on the radio, by just "jumping"into your mind, by moving objects or the like.

The most usual form of comfort that spirit offers to those left behind is the dreams state... That you dream of the person passed who usually just smiles at you or holds you, or sometimes even communicates with you...is a nice way for them to help you heal or at least show that they understand the pain that their death has caused...
hug


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:It's not terrible to lose the illusion that certain things are permanent. By not expecting things to last forever, it is less likely that we suffer from an unrealistic desire, and that we appreciate the present, transient moment that much more.
We must accept the thingos that we have no control over, kicking-the-bucket being one foremost thingo!
The privilege of each physical is an unreal gift yee hah! but all good things must come to a finish, being the nature of things.

Like my plastic surgeon usedta say, "if ya gotta go, go with a smile!" cool
ps i like yooO!


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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PsychoTronic(old)


PsychoTronic(old)

member
Location: Samos-Piraeus-Athens_Greece

Total posts: 64
Posted:what the caterpillar sees as the end, the creator calls it butterfly... wink

The only thing constant in life is change...

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Mint Sauce
BRONZE Member since Sep 2003

veteran
Location: Lancs England

Total posts: 1453
Posted:since i started my training i have had a quite a lot of patients die. when i first encountered death i thought it would affect me more than it did. The majority of patients iv cared for who are dying are quite prepared for it and in some cases looking forward to it.
occasionally i do find it hard when someone iv been caring for for weeks dies. personally i find death in the young the hardest to deal with when i was on ma A&E placement we had to do resuss on several patients most of which died. i think the worst was a gentleman in his early 30s had a hart attack at the train station on his way to work
he was brought in and we attempted to resuss him but sadly the the team was unsuccessful. after we had laid him out. and were sorting his belongings his mobile phone rang was very creepy holding his phone while someone was trying to contact him and he was lying 3 meters behind us still on the trolley dead. that upset me quite a bit.


before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)

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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1662
Posted:that's a really eerie story. I have so much respect for you - i could never do your job.

(although mostly because of the blood - i'm a bit too girly for my own good sometimes.)


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:So tonight a nurse came running into Peds Emergency looking for a kind of suture. It takes a hell of a lot to make a nurse run, and even more so in our hospital. I promptly got her the suture.

On her next run through the Peds ER I asked her what the rush was and she said "we're trying to save this kid's life."

Now I'm a pediatrician, so I heard "save this kid's life" and that meant there was a dying child on the adult side of the emergency department (ED) where he wasn't damned well supposed to be or be likely to survive! So I took off running after her.

Well I got there and it was no child. It was a 27-year-old. And the nurse was in her 50's, so she called him a "kid." And his chest was slit wide open with retractors holding back his ribs. And there was a doctor with a huge crowd of people around him squeezing his heart in his hand. And one look at his face and at the rhythm's on the monitor and I knew... he was a dead man. The few people who ever do survive direct cardiac massage...don't do terribly well. It's messy, folks. Like when you think about blood and gore in the medical setting? This is it.

He was a victim of a multiple-stabbing. They wheeled him up to the OR...and he died two minutes into it. It must have been pretty awful.

I don't know who he was or why he got stabbed. I don't know if he was a good man or a bad man or an evil man or a fair man. I don't know if he had kids, or whether his parents knew yet. I don't know if I wouldn't have thought that he deserved the stabbing had I seen the conflict that led up to it. And now I'm curious to know. I suppose I might read about it in a paper in the next day or so.

But when I lose babies, I never have the curiosity of "who might you have become?" I only have that curiosity about living babies.

Something about children dying to me is enormously sad, but not too deep.

But with adults...

..why is that?


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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