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Page: 1234
GottaLoveIt


GottaLoveIt

Sponge
Location: Stevenage

Total posts: 883
Posted:I know they exist, there's not a lot you can do about them...



but if you're 14 year old kid was smoking, how would you help them stop, even if they didn't want to?



I've heard of one method of sitting the smoker down and forcing them to smoke as much out of a 20 box as they can without water or breaks... but I'm pretty sure that's not very healthy.



Are you even addicted a couple of months after you start? Does it all depend on the person? I know of many people each having differences between their methods of giving up etc.



P.S I did my searches and couldn't find anything, if someone does can you put it up for me?


Monkeys monkeys and bananas

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted:Quote:
I smoke...I don't smoke in public around non smokers....if I need to have a cigarette I either walk away from the non smokers or ask if they mind if I smoke...if they mind I don't smoke...if they don't mind then I will but I try not to blow any smoke their way.




If every smoker was like this, I'd have no problems at all biggrin

Unfortunately, that's just not the case, I can't even remember the last time I was asked if I minded people near me smoking frown
The problem I have most of the time is the sheer number of people smoking in an enclosed space, like a pub, making a cloud of smoke that fills the whole room. The only way to get away from that is to not go in the first place, and I object to having to limit my social life because of selfish people.

I don't think I'll ever understand why people start smoking in the first place confused


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 15414
Posted:I have just about given up cigerettes but i do enjoy the occasional sliff.

(occasional ??? ubbangel)


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_Stix_


_Stix_

Pooh-Bah
Location: la-la land

Total posts: 2419
Posted:why do adults preach at kids not to smoke..

IT'S BECAUSE WE KNOW BETTER!!!! nana we've been there and done that.. some kids are just far to up thier own anus to accept help.. or realise that they need guidance..

we might be addicted.. but it's like saying to you, don't touch that it's hot after we've burnt ourselfs for the 10th time.. and you STILL wanna experience pain.. eek

I used to throw all my parents advice back at them have a tantrum and storm out the house shouting and swearing.. but do you know something.. I *REALLY* wish I'd listened to them.. they did know better and I'm sure my life would have been richer if I had.. hug


I honour you as an aspect of myself..

You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..

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Rossco


Rossco

Official HoP hobbity potato monster!
Location: Cardiff, The Diffshire

Total posts: 434
Posted:Quote:
I have just about given up cigerettes but i do enjoy the occasional sliff.

(occasional ??? ubbangel)



ditto wink ubbangel


O.B.E.S.E. Official Potato man.

Remeber kids.... Its all fun and games until someone loses a bol**ck! biggrin

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Konsti


Konsti

lovable smart-ass
Location: vineyards, Vienna, Austria

Total posts: 785
Posted:(___(______________( )~*~*~*~***
I started pretty early as well, probably wasnt a good idea.
but as long as i can outrun a cop i dont see a reason to quit.

one day ill have to face it and quit, i know that.
juggle


"is optimism in austria just a lack of information?"
-Alfred Dorfer

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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1662
Posted:i don't smoke, my 16 yr old brother has done for 2 years, when i was that age i did too.

the thing most likely to piss off a smoker is telling them how bad it is for them. They know.. I promise, there is no smoker who doesn't know and frankly i didn't like people telling becuase it made them seem like they were treating me like an imbecile.

you can suppourt someone who wants to stop, but you can't stop someone, it's their choice. WHat you can do is say they can't smoke in your house and refuse to give them pocket money to buy fags.

Also remember that smoking under 16 is actually illegal - so i guess if you were desperate you could tell the police, but i think that's more likely to make them hate you than anything.

my mum made it clear that she dissaproved, but didn;t try to punish me or make me stop because she said she would rather know what i was doing than have me sneaking around behind her back.


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingd...

Total posts: 7263
Posted:I'm the only one in my family who doesn't smoke cigarettes. My Dad loves his pipes, mom and sisters like a few rollies but I never saw the appeal. I can understand smoking the green as it does something to you immediately and you can enjoy the feeling but that sort of relief only comes from cigarrettes once you've become addicted, not while you experiment. Besides, fags taste horrid but spliffies taste lush. Not that I'd promote it or imply that it's any safer before someone finds a rather high horse to jump on.

My mom was the same as yours Marf, so long as she knew what we were up to she was happier for us to do it instead of sneaking around to do it behind her back. We were made to feel adult enough with education to decide for ourselves what we chose to do.


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Quote:


Yeah, I feel strongly about this issue. Experimenting with pot and alcohol I can handle, but not tobacco. I'd rather heroin.


I agree fully with what you say about tobacco, it's probably the single biggest avoidable cause of death in the world. I also despise the marketing that pulled so many people into it and which continues in a lesser form today.

When it comes to experimenting with pot, if that experimentation was conducted with just pot then it wouldn't be see a bad thing. However, it generally involves a spliff and some tobacco, and those pot experiments are leading many young people to acquiring a tobacco habit.

In my parents day, cigarettes were promoted and seen as being cool, romantic, expressions of rugged free will etc etc.

Now we see that for the rubbish it is, cigarettes are now being seen more as filthy, addictive and the people who smoke them as being addicts.

Smokers these days often, in their hearts, feel guilty for their habit. This is where pot is a problem, for many it is a way of sustaining their nicotine habit on the grounds that they're smoking spiliffs for the pot effect.

Also, in the UK anyway, pot is now being heavily promoted as being what cigarettes used to be ie cool, expression of freedom, etc.

i do feel that there is a sense in which pot, and those who promote it, are currently the only friend that tobacco has got, and will be a prime force in sustaining it's grip for another few decades.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1662
Posted:that's so true.

i know a few people who use only pipes and bongs, but very few. In fact 1.

i should really make more of an effort to encourage people to smoke it without the tobacco.


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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MiG
GOLD Member since Apr 2004

MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia

Total posts: 3415
Posted:it surely tastes a lot better when its not mixed. doesnt last as long, though.

"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Quote:
I still dont understand why kids start these days. Everybody knows they are crap and one of the most addictive things in the world. I blame the schools if it was educated into them that they will kill you then they wouldnt start.




Because arrogant asses like me in ties and white coats tell them not to.

rolleyes


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Quote:
When it comes to experimenting with pot, if that experimentation was conducted with just pot then it wouldn't be see a bad thing. However, it generally involves a spliff and some tobacco, and those pot experiments are leading many young people to acquiring a tobacco habit.



Not so much in the U.S. That's a Europe thing. That's because in Europe, people generally mix hashish with tobacco and smoke it. In the U.S., it's the actual marijuana bud that's smoked. And no tobacco.

But while marijuana is thought to be "safer" than tobacco, because there is little evidence that it does harm, it's important to remeber WHY there is little evidence.

There is little evidence because little research has been done. Unlike tobacco, marijuana doesn't come packaged into neat little metered-dose cigarettes. Furthermore, a lot fewer people ever admit to smoking it and it's often compounded by other drugs. Thus, it's hard to follow a clean population sample of marijuana smokers who smoke a steady amount day in and day out and never smoke anything else and never do any drugs.

MARIJUANA SMOKE IS STILL SMOKE. It's hot, it's sooty, and it's loaded with carbon monoxide (which happens whenever you burn anything with carbon in it). It causes inflammation in the lungs, inhibits the motion of the cilia that sweep debris out of the lungs, and throws cancer-causing molecules (that also are formed whenever you burn any organic material) into your blood.

So then the question comes up of: "Well how much is safe to smoke?"

I don't know. Is smoking once or twice a year safe? Probably. How about once a month? How about once a week? Once a day? Three times a day? Where's the cut-off? I dunno.

But if you never smoke pot, I can guarantee that it won't hurt your lungs.

weavesmiley


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Shawnie
GOLD Member since Mar 2004

Captain Shawnie the Dreaded
Location: , Canada

Total posts: 126
Posted:Good points Lightning! and there's another problem with pot nobody's mentioned. Maybe nobody's experienced this but I have. People mixing weed with other drugs that are more dangerous. A few years ago, I toked up with these people. I had assumed it was only pot. 15 minutes later I was unconscious and had turned blue. I was so freaked out when I woke up and found out what had happened. I was really not looking good for a bit. As bad as ciggies are, I felt safer with one of those between my fingers than a joint. Scary stuff.

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ASTRO FAERIE
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

ASTRO FAERIE

ummmmmmm.............
Location: Rotherham, UK

Total posts: 724
Posted:Young smokers really are upsetting, i saw a 10yr old with his mum smoking the other day, i was shocked but extremely annoyed, wheres the responsibilty on the part of the parent there?.

But most of the time kids will fnd somewhere to smoke even if the parents try to stop them.

I have lost one of my closest family members and friends this morning due to cancer....my nan.
She came from a generation where smoking was used for weight loss, fashion and was apparently good for you in the early days. In the society we live in now there is no need for ignorance, everyone knows smoking kills. If you, as an adult smoke knowing the consequences then fine, its an adult decision. But these kids arent old enough to make it, if they saw what i did 3 hours ago it might make them think twice. Sorry if this sounds harsh but its about time people took more care of themselves, i cant imagine what these kids lungs will look like by the time they are 30.


Only when the last tree has died
and the last river has been poisoned
and the last fish has been caught
will we realise that we
cannot eat money.

Cree Indian, 1909

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Quote:
Young smokers really are upsetting, i saw a 10yr old with his mum smoking the other day, i was shocked but extremely annoyed, wheres the responsibilty on the part of the parent there?



Astro, at that point, I think there's a good case to be made for child neglect/abuse (or something like that...not sure there's a term for it). At least in this country, a pediatrician would be legally bound to report such a case to Child Protective Services. Failure to do so would likely result in criminal charges against the pediatrician.

So I think that's a bit of an extreme case. A 13 year-old smoking behind his parents' back I can write off as (very!) poor parenting, but this is just downright wrong. frown

Besides, in this country, it is illegal for minors to possess tobacco.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Quote:

I have lost one of my closest family members and friends this morning due to cancer....my nan.



Oh my lord...I didn't even read that until I'd done the last post.

hug hug hug hug hug ubbcrying ubbcrying ubbcrying

I am SOOO sorry!


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Theres one thing people overlook when talking about cigarette smoking. That is that smoking related deaths are more or less essential to the planet. If it werent for all the people dying from cigarette smoking the world would get even more overpopulated. Its one of the many ways man has invented to keep the population somewhat in check.

God forbid we find a cure for cancer, well have to colonize Mars.


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:ICoN...

I'm not seeing a cure for death coming any time soon. ubblol

But there was an interesting little tidbit I learned as an undergrad.

Suppose species A lives forever and each individual produces 100 offspring a year.

Now, suppose species B lives for one year. How many offspring does each individual in species B have to produce each year to keep up with the population growth of Species A?

Answer: 101

Grab a piece of paper and a pen and work it out.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:But thats not the issue in this case smile

That would only apply if humans started having more kids depending on the earth's population.


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Quote:
Theres one thing people overlook when talking about cigarette smoking. That is that smoking related deaths are more or less essential to the planet. If it werent for all the people dying from cigarette smoking the world would get even more overpopulated.


Reminds me of the report by Malboro to the Czech government showing them how much money they'd save if they encouraged their population to smoke: -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/07/18/wsmok18.xml
br>
Obviously I'm posting this not to suggest that smoking deaths benefit the population, but just as an example of the kind of twisted, calculating attitudes that are associated with the tobacco industry.

extracts: -

EARLY deaths through smoking save the Czech government tens of millions of pounds a year in health care, pensions and housing, according to Philip Morris, the world's biggest cigarette company.

-----------------------

It quoted a 1997 Dutch report that said smokers lived on average 4.73 years less than non-smokers and a 1990 American report that put the figure at 5.23 years of "lost life". The report favoured the latter as being the more accurate estimate.

------------------

The report said: "Our principal finding is that the negative financial effects of smoking, such as increased health care costs, are more than offset by positive effects (such as excise tax and VAT collected on tobacco products)."

A significant factor in the "positive" effects of smoking was the savings derived from not having dead smokers using up public services such as hospital beds and old people's homes.



"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

Big Andy
BRONZE Member since Apr 2003

member
Location: Dallas, Tx, USA

Total posts: 186
Posted:Quote:
Big Andy. On the part of your rant about addicted smokers not getting anything out of smokers not getting anything of of smoking.. It's VERY similar to most other addictions. Like alcohol. An alcoholic will not get drunk because drinking makes them feel good. It's because they feel miserable without it. Just like ciggy smokers with cigarettes. And smack addicts with smack. Alcoholics and smack users aren't getting anything out of it except poison either. But that's what drug addictions are all about.


Agreed, I guess it is the same, in a way. The only difference I can really see is that other drugs usually provide for some party times before the real addiction kicks in. that smack addict got REALLY messed up for a while before it was just a crave satisfaction. Same way for the alcoholic, he probably had some great party times in college before becoming a completely useless alcoholic, ya know?

Cig's just barely give ya buz the first couple times....


That's my logic, I'm not saying drugs are better than cig's, lol, just pointing out that you get a much more altered state of conciousness out of other substances. Thusly, from the "I wanna get f***d up" standpoint, cig's seem pretty silly.


"We can't stop here! This is bat country!"

"Welcome to the U-S-A,
We'll treat you right, unless you're black or gay, or Cherokeeeeee!!"

-Brian Griffin from "Family Guy" (the dog)

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ASTRO FAERIE
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

ASTRO FAERIE

ummmmmmm.............
Location: Rotherham, UK

Total posts: 724
Posted:

Oh my lord...I didn't even read that until I'd done the last post.







I am SOOO sorry!





Thanx lighning hug

EDITED_BY: ASTRO FAERIE (1082763200)


Only when the last tree has died
and the last river has been poisoned
and the last fish has been caught
will we realise that we
cannot eat money.

Cree Indian, 1909

Delete

Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Quote:
But thats not the issue in this case



That would only apply if humans started having more kids depending on the earth's population.





So it wouldn't really change the death rate because 100% of people die eventually (there are two certainties in life: death and taxes). And because quitting smoking would only prolong both life and quality of life without prolonging reproductive life or increasing reproduction, the effect on the world population would be tiny.



As for Marlboro's calculation to the Czech government, I wonder why the corporate board of Marlboro wasn't tried in an international tribunal for genocide.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Kaji


Kaji

Quantum Theorist
Location: Vansterdam

Total posts: 564
Posted:COPD? Whats that?

In the 60's people took acid to make the world weird, now the world is weird and they take prozac to make it normal again.

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:COPD is Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease. The form of COPD caused by smoking is called emphyzema. Asthma is also a form of COPD, but it's not generally thought of as COPD because it's much easier to treat, and when properly managed, doesn't cause damage to the lungs.



What happens in COPD is that the little walls between the alveoli in the lungs (the tiny airspaces where gas exchange between air and blood takes place) break down due to the chronic inflammation from the cigarette smoke. This 1) reduces the overall surface area available for gas exchange and 2) reduces the outward tension on the tiny air tubes (called bronchioles ["bron-kee-oles" and bronchi ["bronk-aye"]) that helps to hold them open.



So what happens is that air can get into the lung, but can't get back out. I have a gentleman on my service right now with such horrible COPD that he essentially has no alveoli left in his lung. On his CT scan, I can actually see the few thin membranes he has remaining in his lungs. His heart is in great shape, as are his kidneys (which are the other two organs that cigarrettes can damage), but he's dying because his lungs are shot. He's dependent on oxygen.



It's an awful disease and I would wager that about 99% of emphyzema is caused by cigarettes.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Xtal


member


Total posts: 7
Posted:Forcing kids to smoke an entire pack or more does NOT work. Kids who do that end up smoking a few years later usually, I read all about it. The best thing for a 14 year old is to completely cut them off...which is easier in the U.S. I think, cuz they'd have to find someone to buy them for them... I'm not especially familiar with foreign tobbacco laws.

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GottaLoveIt


GottaLoveIt

Sponge
Location: Stevenage

Total posts: 883
Posted:The tobacco laws in this country are pretty damned stupid... it's not legal to buy cigarettes til your 16 or to supply anyone under the age of 16 but you can smoke on the street when you're 15. Anyone? This make sense??? help

Quote:
Mint Sauce
If it was educated into them... then they wouldn't start


I disagree, I mean we're pummelled with education about contraceptives and what not but we have the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Europe and as the amount of education goes up, so does the amount of teenage pregnancies. I'm not sure education has much relevance. I'm pretty sure I'm safe to say that everyone at least on the board knows the dangers of smoking and what it does to them but yet we still carry on.

I still maintain the addiction depends on the person... for every addiction there is.

Quote:
Ebonyglider
I don't know why people want kids to stop smoking if it's perfectly legal for adults too


I'm not sure but even though our bodies are developing all the time It's probably a lot more crucial when you're younger, I know you're not 7 and what not but you're not yet 40 either.

I think Ade and Tao Star hit the nail on the head when they mentioned decieving the parents, I think that's the hiccup my family have. We've all done it (3kids) and gotten away with it.


Monkeys monkeys and bananas

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Quote:

She came from a generation where smoking was used for weight loss, fashion and was apparently good for you in the early days. In the society we live in now there is no need for ignorance, everyone knows smoking kills. If you, as an adult smoke knowing the consequences then fine, its an adult decision. But these kids arent old enough to make it.



What Ali says about that generation is true of my parents. Their lives have been seriously damaged by a 'choice' they made as young people; in my opinion they were victims.

I don't believe that anyone dying of smoking-caused cancer, chose to do so, or, at the age of 13 and subject to peer pressure, cultural influence etc, were in any position to make such a choice.

It's easy to be unsympathetic when you see some shambling 50 year old with a 80 a day habit, after all they're grown adults and it's their choice.

However, tobacco works best by catching them young, when they have no sense of mortality or consequence, and see cigarettes not as killers, but as ways of expressing coolness/rebellion etc.

The smoking industry is based on delusion and fantasy, cigarettes don't taste nice, they have no no positive aspects and all long term smokers, whatever they themselves think, smoke because they are addicts.

The key to eliminating smoking is to expose the delusions; smokers themselves can help by facing up to the facts- there's no shame in facing up to being the victim of an addiction. What doesn't help is when smokers use words and phrases like 'choice', 'the social benefits of smoking' etc.

Like I've said several times before, those of you have tried various ways of quitting without success- buy a copy of Allen Carrs 'Easy Way to Give up Smoking', read it and do exactly what it says.

I feel that the current offical medical position of stressing how difficult it is to quit and recommending aids like nicotine patches, is not particulalry helpful.

Whilst quitting in the wrong state of mind is incredibly difficult (I know from experience), if you get in the right state of mind and understand fully the way tobacco entraps, then quitting is easy (also from experience).

Lastly, if you do succeed in quitting, don't make the same mistake that many do and, six months, or a year later, get complacent (or drunk) and do that one thing that is understandable for a naive 13 year old child, but, in the case of an adult ex-smoker, totally stupid; ie light up a cigarette believing that you won't end up in the same trap you were before.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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chappas4306


member
Location: brissie, queensland

Total posts: 24
Posted:<edited by moderator - offensive language>



ppl love to smoke coz its soothing and its relaxing and stuff like if u dont like it then go live under a rock in a cave coz u cant get away from the fact that young ppl smoke. like its all around me everyday and censored. get used to it ubbloco and yes i smoke im 17

EDITED_BY: flash fire (1083201491)


--{ goldfish production }--

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:I think Grace was just expressing her opinion that the sight of a thirteen year old smoking is not a pretty one.

As you're a smoker and therefore presumably benefiting from the 'soothing and relaxing' qualities that come from the habit, I wonder why you're getting so uptight about it smile


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

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