Durbs
Durbs

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Posted:I was going to post in the other Contact Poi thread, but as it seemed to discuss 3 different types it all got a bit confusing and was more of a discussion as to what "Contact Poi" is wink



I'm working on Dom's, Nx?'s and my definition - a.k.a. suicides (although that sounds a bit dramatic) or tracers (apparently)



I've been playing with them a bit and so far have got as far as this:

Incidentally I'm calling them rolls as they aren't wraps and I can't think of a better word to use smile



Horizontal Round the neck roll:

From clockwise-corkscrew (or roof plane butterfly) right hand comes round to the back of the neck, the poi half-wraps round, release the handle and bring your hand to the front. It can be caught and brought out in a flat spin either on top of, or below your right arm. I find this much easier with flags, but that could just be me using bouncy socks...



Vertical neck roll:

Same as above, but from butterfly (forward or reverse)



Double Verticle neck roll:

Same as verticle neck roll, but release both. This is *very* tempremental and often just results in strangulation rolleyes



Double horizontal neck roll:

From roof plane butterfly, forward or reverse

Only worked once - again another strangulation move...



Chop/Wrist roll:

Backwards spin, release, as the string is verticle, chop your wrist/hand horizontally into it - the handle should wrap around, as the poi head is unwrapping - continue into backwards spin.



Waist roll:

Again from corkscrew - except instead of wrapping around your neck, wrap around the waist and catch otherside of waist. Seems to be a popular club-spinning move (at least I saw some version of this at the Bristol Juggling thing)



Leg rolls:

From forward or reverse, double or single - quite basic really.



BTB Over-shoulder:

This came about as a miss-thrown BTB overshoulder throw. You need long poi, from a forward spin, right hand come behind your back as if some one was putting you in an arm lock. The poi comes over your left shoulder, release, right hand comes back round to catch - you can go into a buzzsaw.

Not sure that it's do-able with fire or you'll burn your pec/breast smile


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Dragon7
Dragon7

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Posted:So how do these "rolls" differ from "suicides"? And if your going to call this "contact" then what would you call the other thread? (where your hands never leave your body).

Personally i dont agree with anything called "contact" ie staff. It should be called non-contact staff. (But hey it just a name) Although i do understand Juggling contact...but that has nothing to do with poi.

Alot of staffers get highly offended when people start naming the poi equilvant move for staff. I know its just a name...but dont you think "suicide's" is more defined to this style of moves, and it sounds b@d @ss. eek *or is this a totally new style 1/2 tracer and 1/2 suicide?* ( or is this the same as "snake's") Im totally confused because how can throws be contact?

No offence...its just getting stupid with all the renaming going on round here.

I thought you had to drag the poi over/around your body for it to be called a "tracer". Or is all this renaming coming from another "un-named" web site? ubbidea

Please correct me if im wrong...

Chi sau anyone ubbloco


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Durbs
Durbs

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Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
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Posted:Ok - not to be arsey, but this wasn't meant to turn into another discussion as to what Contact Poi is... It was meant to be a moves list.

As I said at the beginning, I'm working on Dom/Nx?/My definitiion of Contact Poi where the poi *rolls* over your leg/arm/neck without you holding on to it - the same as contact staff (Hence the name). So I'm not re-naming anything. And no, these aren't snakes.



I don't like the name "Suicide" - it's origins are from Diabolo where you release one or both hand-sticks so I guess it does make sense, however it's a bit of an over-the-top word or "bad-ass" as you call it.









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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

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Posted:I agree with Durbs, not Taniwha (on contact) and not Nix (on suicides). ubbangel

I'm sorry for not helping keep this on topic but I agree this naming lark is getting ridiculous.

I also think suicide is an over the top name. It's hardcore and therefore, IMHO, should be kept for what it originally was used for (ie - double neck through wraps which are hardcore).

I agree with durbs that contact should be when the poi are kept in contact with the body and released (consistant with Contact juggling and contact staff) and not the hands kept in contact with the body (although these are lovely).

My 2 cents hehe


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coleman
coleman

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Posted:comes in with head bowed just in case durbs gets arsey with me too wink



i say 'suicide wrap' for these.

dragon: they are a bit like tracers done backwards, with a release and a catch to finish wink tongue



here is a link: link

its from 2002 and i believe is one of the first mentions of this type of move if that counts for anything.



but since this is not a discussion on what these are called, there are these links too:



dentrassi mentioned the double suicide neckwrap in the jedi set over here too.



nix? with a shoulder variation here.



my contribution would be a poi on poi suicide wraps.

or hyperloop suicides if you prefer.

see bloocat for details wink



also a certain dude called ivan, who you may or may not know, does this kinda thing with meteors too eg. upwards bf in front, wrap leg (calf from underneath is best methinks), kick leg out behind, wait for the meteor to unwrap and fly off, turn and catch smile


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Dom
Dom

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Posted:Durbs - you've been thinking!

I've only played with it a bit and I worked it out mainly with one poi. Mainly I'd let the poi go at a point so that'd it flow along an arm, and rapidly wrap the arm round the poi so that as it snaked along the limb I could grab it again. Note that I use long sock poi, but also some contact stuff with monkey fists on long ball chain.



Couple of specific ideas:

Left hand spinning clockwise in front. Right hand clockwise goes behind the back and out in front the other side so that the string b the handle wraps around the left arm. Quickly move the right hand back to the front to pick up the handle.



Going over the shoulder whilst spinning forwards or backwards releasing the poi and moving your arms to wrap around them so they slide down to your hands works. (bkwds - go to a horizontal stall then release).



On the name thing: The point of contact staff is that it remains in contact with your body, but not gripped with your hands. Therefore contact poi is logically exactly the same. Personally I don't think what the other thread talks about is a particular form of poi - like seperations and isolations it's a variation that can be done with many poi moves. Naming it contact because your hands are in contact with the rest of your body doesn't make sense to me. Maybe we should discuss this on the other thread which should be renamed the "fondling yourself" thread wink



Suicides are not contact poi - one poi is released and taught in a tangle with the other one. no?



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TheWibbler
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Posted:Quote:
On the name thing: The point of contact staff is that it remains in contact with your body, but not gripped with your hands. Therefore contact poi is logically exactly the same. Personally I don't think what the other thread talks about is a particular form of poi - like seperations and isolations it's a variation that can be done with many poi moves. Naming it contact because your hands are in contact with the rest of your body doesn't make sense to me. Maybe we should discuss this on the other thread which should be renamed the "fondling yourself" thread




I totally agree. And as for resistance to changing the names of things. Perhaps some of the names we currently use are WRONG, fundamentally WRONG and need to be changed.

DOn't fear change, it's a healthy constant.


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Durbs
Durbs

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Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
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Posted:Luckily this isn't a discussion about the name of moves - it's some various moves to try.

Othewise it'd be a really annoying thread to try and read wink


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coleman
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Posted:i did try angelblue

okay, so i wasn't original but at least i had a go... wink


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i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
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Dom
Dom

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Posted:Durbs - have you noticed this new Graemlin: offtopic

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coleman
coleman

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Posted:handily over-ridden by this one i believe: soapbox

wink grouphug


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i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
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Dragon7
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Posted:My bad didnt mean to drag this off topic.



Quote:
I've only played with it a bit and I worked it out mainly with one poi. Mainly I'd let the poi go at a point so that'd it flow along an arm, and rapidly wrap the arm round the poi so that as it snaked along the limb I could grab it again.

Dom.



Dude those are snakes, Pele told me about that yrs ago.



Oh yea i have some hyp suicides on vid...but youll have to wait wink

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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

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Posted:They are not snakes.



Snakes are club swinging moves that are generally made up of 2 circles (centre of circle being elbow, say for shouldar snakes) and a throw off. Club is held resting on fore arm, knob in hand head at elbow.



Search for that club swinging book that was posted, scanned into pdf if that doesn't make sense.



Sorry Durbs, didn't know where else to reply. angelblue


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elasta
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Posted:Written by: Dm
Going over the shoulder whilst spinning forwards or backwards releasing the poi and moving your arms to wrap around them so they slide down to your hands works. (bkwds - go to a horizontal stall then release).



what exactly do you mean by "going over the shoulder?"


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Durbs
Durbs

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Posted:**edited as I thought you were talking about something I said**



smile

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duballstar
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Posted:sorry...redface



what dom said is damn straight. contact poi is defined like contact staff. similarily, as DSS said, snakes are the same as the club move and suicides are similar to the diablo move in that you tangle and let go of one handle. if we borrow names from other objects and use them to name entirely different moves or concepts it's only gonna cause confusion....



*ducks to avoid large heavy object durbs is likely to be swinging at him* eek


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Dragon7
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Posted:Since when did people start naming one art after another? The staffers clearly determined that each art has its own original name. Even if its the same name as another art but a different move :P

And according to Pele (over 2 yrs ago) the def given for wraping and release was a snake. So im not going to say sry :P I can prove it if u like, either that or ask Arashi. ubblol There is no similarity at all between clubs and poi.I think suicides or rolls are much better names. Changing or making up new names as you go along is just pure Jedi.

As far as renaming my Contact thread to the "fondling yourself" thread, bite me. ubbloco

offtopic

Back on topic the actuall moves your talking about are very tech moves and dont deserve all the bad attention they are copping right now. I vote we all just forget this pissing contest over names and go to descriptions and accept other peoples names or video clips... i have video clips for NAM!

Btb throws into hyperloop catch's on fire vid clip anyone?


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duballstar
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Posted:Written by: Dragon7

There is no similarity at all between clubs and poi


umm

sorry man couldn't help it! wink

but yes, more moves, some videos, less arguing.. let's go!

i've been playing with the arm rolls (i like the name rolls too) for a while + when wearing slippy material (like a rain jacket) can get more than one loop. anyone got any good ideas for multi beat conact stuff?


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Durbs
Durbs

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Posted:I guess you could "cheat" and do a multi-beat neck roll - perhaps trap it with your chin before releasing it again.

With meteors you can do this continuously, but I think the one-sided weighting of the poi makes this trs difficle...

Howabout:
Neck roll --> chest roll --> hip roll (think Hula-hoop) --> leg roll...

You'd get a funky spiral down your body... No idea if this is possible, I'm sitting at work and will be for aout 2.5 hours frown


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DragenWulf
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Posted:Poi hurts my head !!

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mcp
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Posted:if you make videos of moves and call them names. People start to use those names. It makes you feel special.... biggrin

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arashi
arashi

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Posted:yes, these are the moves that started the "secret" snakes BS argument a few years ago. snakes is the best name and if you don't agree i'll spank you with a hot dog. cause they look like snakes crawling around your body and the old sticks move-is just retarded to call it something specific- when it's just an isolating arm motion that just looks more like a snake or mantis style shaolin kung fu arm lock-and then apply it to poi.
but that's just what i'll call them in my class. (snakes)

but anyways, how about we avoid all the confusion and call them "contact wrap throws?" or something?
(gags at the hop language mucky water yet again) hehe


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Dragon7
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Posted:Written by:


i'll spank you with a hot dog

Arashi



LMFAO a hot dog!?! Im tempted to disagree wink ubblol Paleezze biggrin



I love the feel, like the flow of your arm, the amount of force you have to use with the rotation on your arm, because too much strength and it will fly off and not enough strength and it will drag or stall. The actual body motion and what it teach's you, to me it feels like sticky hands, lop sau. Guess you can say that about alot of poi moves but it seems more so with these moves, just alot of energy being focused and dispersed, and the amout of skill it requires.



Anyone else get that or am i eek freakin wink

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arashi
arashi

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Posted:p.s. sorry durbs just trying to help offtopic spank

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-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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