Page: 12
Kat
Kat

Pooh-Bah
Location: London
Member Since: 13th Dec 2000
Total posts: 2211
Posted:Bex asked me to post here as she heard an evil rumour that McDonalds owned Pret a Manger. For those of you who don't know Pret a Manger - its a UK sandwich chain that sells mediocre food at ridiculously overinflated prices.

I think McDonalds own a 1/3rd share, they bought into it a couple of years ago.

I wonder how many more 'UK' companies have become globalised in this way? Asda for instance is owned by those corporate whores Walmart. Lucozade is made by GlaxoSmithKline group. I'm sure the list is endless..


Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.

- W B Yeats

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Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted:But Asda was a corporate whore before it was taken over by a fatter corporate whore.



Yeah Pret is owned by McD's and if that's not enough of a reason to stay away they also sell the dirty coffee muck! mad


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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Kat
Kat

Pooh-Bah
Location: London
Member Since: 13th Dec 2000
Total posts: 2211
Posted:And scummy sandwiches! I'm not a Pret fan either!

Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.

- W B Yeats

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Pink...?
Pink...?

Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
Location: Over There
Member Since: 6th Apr 2002
Total posts: 6140
Posted:I dont go into Pret. Don't have enough money for that!

I like to go to Subway. Much cheaper.

I think most companies tend to be owned/ partly owned
by other larger companies at the moment. In some ways it helps them out with any financial difficulties but then i suppose it also stops them growing the way they want to an extent.

ubblove


Never pick up a duck in a dungeon...

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Subway = ubblove

for me at least.


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Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted:Agree. Subway do the best...erm....subs!! Althogh for a veggie it's quite limited for choice but at least you can just say some of that, and that, not those, but lots of those! And they're always nice. George B refuses to go into them as they're to big a company but I'm slowly working on her!

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mrFlibble
Ghostbuster
Location: York, UK
Member Since: 1st Mar 2003
Total posts: 455
Posted:if i want some sarnies i make my own biggrin at least i know whats in it, and can make sure its got stuff i like in smile

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Good
member
Location: a mountaintop in Colorado
Member Since: 25th Sep 2003
Total posts: 55
Posted:I admit, I like the "special sauce" on the Big Mac. But it's only thousand Island dressing! And that's only mayo, ketchup and pickle relish mixed together! Yay, Home-style Big Mac sauce on some better-quality meat (or veat, whatever floats your boat)

Did I say that my friends call me Condiment Girl?


take the schneak-tip

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Valura
Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member Since: 25th Apr 2002
Total posts: 6391
Posted:oh no dont get me started!!
last night the_seal accused me of ranting when i squashed every idea concerning fast food and which one we should eat...
to be perfectly honest I wasnt like this until Bluecat was here and told me to read fast food nation, which of course changed the way i eat and basically my whole dam life!!! YAY Im macca's free!
I wont buy their food... (theres sh*t in the meat dont ya know?) eek mad


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:Yep, McD's own a third of Pret. But it's a third, so it's not completely evil empire.

Pret do good food that's organic and fair trade. The way I see McyDs and co is that they've realised that they couldn't continue the way they were and so are changing. They're far from perfect in a far from perfect world, but when you can get carrots instead of chips with your salad at Burger King it's got to be changing for the better.

I'll happily justify buying Pret chocolate croissants to anyone!


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Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted:Yeah but McD's are only changing their deliberate nasty ways cuz folks have found out what they do and how they do it, they're only improving to maintain a market share not because of their consience about animal cruelty, rain de-forestation, awful slaughter houses and minimum wage payments or less if they can get away with it.



Let em sink and burn I say, and then the folks working for them can all get jobs in the nice, new, small, local food sourced pleasent cafe's doing their bit for proper farming techniques that will open up in their place.



And don't forget fair trade only started because of companies such as McD's and many many others who don't care a fig about the well being of the communities they hold to virtual ransom in the lesser developed areas of the world. Them being in support of Fair Trade is like saying George Bush being in support of Gay Marriage. It's only when they can milk extra pennies from it that it means anything to them.


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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:OK, this is generaly because I tend to dislike such black & white opinions from either side of an argument.

It seems in your opinion every enterprise and action in the world should only exist and act for altruistic reasons. This is a lovely thought, and all very well, but as I said, this is far form a perfect world.

Yes, the fast food industry's changes are in order to maintain market share and make a profit - this is the aim of just about every company in the world, including organic farms and fair trade suppliers. The fact that they are changing shows that increasing amounts of consumers are becoming more aware of ethical consumerism and their own diets and affecting the market enough that companies have to take this into consideration. This is something to be glad about, regadless of how we've got here.

The Fair Trade industry in the UK is now massive. 500 million a year or something. They're making a difference, so celebrate that fact. But they're still companies that work to make a profit, just like McDonalds. The FairTrade Foundation itself has it's critics within the industry who say it's becoming too big and powerful.

So I guess my point is that whilst I'm not supporting McDonalds or advocating eating their burgers, many people will always associate a company with a previously determined label and fail to see improvements in a company's behaviour.

It's very easy for some people to declare that Pret is now tainted with McDonalds money and so is no longer good. It takes a bit more open mindedness to see that McDonalds is putting money into a better company in order to allow that company to grow more and hopefully they'll be some positive feedback onto McD's itself.

It's the people who work with a company to make and support changes who have more of an effect than those who'll always shun it.


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Burzaruka
enthusiast

Member Since: 13th Apr 2004
Total posts: 233
Posted:McD is a multi billion, possibly trillion dollar company. With over 1,000,000 stores world wide, and a managment/production system that is so perfect and low cost that they will rein supream for many a years to come.

If the Croc family (Ray Croc being the guy who made the McDonald's franchise) were to only make $1.00 every day from each other the 1 million + McDonald's they would still be so far ahead of most if not all of the other fast food joints in the world.

Sink and burn? Not for many many decades to come.

Quote:
It's very easy for some people to declare that Pret is now tainted with McDonalds money and so is no longer good. It takes a bit more open mindedness to see that McDonalds is putting money into a better company in order to allow that company to grow more and hopefully they'll be some positive feedback onto McD's itself.



Dom is absolutly right. McDonald's isnt a bad company. They serve fast junk food. It isnt the most healthy thing in the world, but be honest... did you ever really go to McDonalds to get a healthy meal? I know I never have. I hit the drive through because I am short on time. I use the dollar menu because I am low on cash and dont mind spending my loose change there.

McDonald's puts millions of dollars a year into a cherety to help sick children. The Ronald McDonald House. They are also key sponsors in the Make a Wish Foundation.

While their food may be extreamly low quality, and the pay ubber suxxors you have to admit that the evil empire known as McDonald's does a lot of good when they really don't have to.


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Trillian
Trillian

Llamas are larger than frogs.
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Member Since: 28th Feb 2004
Total posts: 319
Posted:Good points, Dom... While I am not a supporter or patron of McD's, you can't complain about a company's practices and then keep complaining when they change them because they did it for the wrong reasons. They changed, and that's a start at least.

"I know a good deal more than a boiled carrot."
"Fire!" "Where?" "Nowhere, I was just illustrating the misuse of free speech."

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Konsti
Konsti

lovable smart-ass
Location: vineyards, Vienna, Austria
Member Since: 16th Oct 2003
Total posts: 785
Posted:hey guys youll like this:
it seems that the evil fastfood empire (with its crown princess manifesting themselves as McD, BK, Pizza Hut and so on) has taken the world into its stranglehold. But NO!! there is a small country in the middle of Europe where the biggest Pizza Huts and McDs get closed down to open luxury Doner stands and real restaurants. Seriously ive seen at least 7 places that used to be fats food chains go bust.
Long Live Austria.!!!!


"is optimism in austria just a lack of information?"
-Alfred Dorfer

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Kat
Kat

Pooh-Bah
Location: London
Member Since: 13th Dec 2000
Total posts: 2211
Posted:Good points for Dom. Definitely is positive that more companies are offerring fair trade products, organic produce etc.

However I still don't like Pret. Its nothing to do with it being part of McDonalds, had a sambo there that put me off it and the store service near me was dire!

Remembered yesterday reasons I don't like Starbucks when I played 'Name that Coffee'. I asked for a double espresso and the assistant was ' do you want a blah, blah, blah blah or a blah blah! I chose the 2nd blah blah and the assistant sneeringly said 'well a blah blah is a trible shot and a double is only two, our customers who want a double order a blah blah. rolleyes


Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.

- W B Yeats

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:*stands up and gives polite golf applause to Dom*

I think Starbucks do the worst coffee ever - Wetherspoons is nicer and 50p!!

But yes, I'd like to second (well, fourth by now) that a change for the better is still a change for the better - regardless of the reasons


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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Tao Star
Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 30th May 2003
Total posts: 1662
Posted:McDonalds carities - great idea and it definatley shows that big campanies like macdonalds do have people in them that care and make a difference to people's lives - but in my opinion having been involved in the McLbel trial for a few years i don't think i could ever even go in to another macdonalds, let alone buy their food.


One company that people seem to forget about that's done probably more acitvely wrong than macdonalds is nestle. they are the biggest food company in the whole world and they own other huge cpmpanies like rowntrees and l'oriel and stuff. And they do mean things to babies... baby milk action


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:cool I can check neither of those links because according to my firewall they are "Advocacy Groups".

Hmm, must put that down next to greenpeace in my list of sites I can't get into for the same reasons.


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:Where do you work! Is there a big sign saying "You are not paid to think for yourself" and "Big Brother is watching you!"

On a McDs note, somewhat ironic (and shouldn't be funny so don't snigger) - McDonald's CEO and Chairman has died of a heart attack. BBC News Story "Only last week McDonald's introduced a new Adult Happy Meal in the US that included a pedometer to encourage people to walk more."


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Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted:Oooh yeah lets cheer McD's for bowing to public pressure and trying to gain market share with a few good turns to put the public off the scent.

Yes the charity thing is good, completely agree whole hearteldly and glad it exists...but...a few rights compared to thousands of wrongs over decades is barely a comparison. They only change theire strategy for market share, there's no concience involved, if it gets them your money in their pocket they'll do it. Just like all the rainforests they detroyed for profit, just like the animals kept in dire conditions with their full knowledge for profit, just like the minimum wage kids they employ cuz nobody else would dream of working there. Just like the trillions of polystyrene cups, plastic knives and forks and food holders they polute the earth with. And just like the advertising that they only recently changed that employed tactics so kids would pester their parents into submission and buy them a happy meal with a crappy toy in it.

Yes they're waking up, very slowly, but not because they want to, because they have to. They couldn't give two figs about you or the planets health unless its a TV commercial screen shot. A few rights do not correct a whole bunch of wrongs.

Sorry to be so arsey about it but McD's annoy me more and more each day.

Oh and why does every store have a token handicapped person clearning up rubbish outside and emptying bins?! If they want to employ them, which is a obviously a positive and welcomed thing, can't they give at least some of them respectable jobs instead of treating them like the crap they make them pick up?!

And a question to end my rant on, how does a pedometer actaully encourage you to walk further?! I have a odometer in my car but it doens't make me drive any further/less confused


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Tao Star
Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 30th May 2003
Total posts: 1662
Posted:good points - and the awful thing is that in countries where people don't know some stuff (like there being beef extract in the fries) they carry on for as long as they possibly can until someone finds out!

it's not like someone points something out to them so they realise what they've been doing wrong and change it, they will do anything they can to stop people fiding out so they can do whatever they want to make more money. they have even completely, outragously, blatantly lied to people so they won't get told off.

it's rude apart from anything tongue.


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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Burzaruka
enthusiast

Member Since: 13th Apr 2004
Total posts: 233
Posted:Folks I dont understand what the problem is. Is it a vegitarian vs. meat eater thing? What are these decades of sin that everyone is talking about. I even worked for McDonalds and never saw anything wrong. I only worked there for a summer but I dont understand whats wrong. Can someone explain it to me?

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Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted:Here's a snippet from the verdict by Judge Justice Bell, the judge in the McLibel case. It pretty much summarises my feelings quite well.



Quote:
the Defendants had shown that McDonald's "exploit children" with their advertising, falsely advertise their food as nutritious, risk the health of their long-term regular customers, are "culpably responsible" for cruelty to animals reared for their products, are "strongly antipathetic" to unions and pay their workers low wages





I'm not veggie but I don't eat much meat in general, maybe once a week at most these days and not because of McD's in anyway but because of it being meat. I don't really understand why you think it might be a veggie vs meat thing.



Obviously your experience with McD's is a good one, lucky you.



Take a look round here for an insight. Obviously loads of companies are just as guilty but asMcD's are pretty much the worlds largest/most recognised so they get the heat. Thems the beans.



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Tao Star
Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 30th May 2003
Total posts: 1662
Posted:i'm not veggie either - so it's not a veggie/meat eater thing.

it's more that they upset vegetarians by claiming that a lot of their food was vegetarian, and then they put meat products in and lie about it, which is understandably upsetting.

but most of the issues i think, are mot specifically with the food - like loads of people have pointed out, the food may be $h1t but they never really claimed it was gourmet! it's their attitude more than a anything, like closing down resturants where people were forming a union, then opening another one down the street but not re-employing the unionised people. A bit suss if you ask me....

that's just a tiny example of an enormous stream of things that the fast food industry in general does - it's by no means mcdonalds alone.


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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Burzaruka
enthusiast

Member Since: 13th Apr 2004
Total posts: 233
Posted:The veggie/meat thing was a joke. I dont really think that McD's really has any meat in its products anyway tongue

Well in reading some of the stuff on the site, I am really not impressed. I think they are making a bunch of noise over nothing that important. They even admit that they are attacking the McDonald's corperation and not worse organisations because "...everyone has heard of them...".

Sorry, I have nothing good to say about anyone like that, facts or not, their hearts arnt doing it for the right reasons.

Kind of like the doctor who lets the wounded murderer die on his operating table just because he is bad and there is a differnt patient who will die without the heart transplant.

I dont think I will check things out on this little topic any more, doesnt seem like a positive descussion to me.


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Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted:What? confused

They target McD's because of how massively world recognised they are. It's more likely that you will remember the facts that you hear because you associate it with such a familiar brand (I would imagine that not one person here hasn't heard of a Big Mac) and hopefully you'll dig deeper and realise what a wholey crap situation the entire industry is. Like you said they say, there are worse corporations out there, and now you know you can react how you see fit whether thats actively or not. But what that has to do with a Dr and hearts I don't know.


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Tao Star
Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 30th May 2003
Total posts: 1662
Posted:Quote:
The veggie/meat thing was a joke. I dont really think that McD's really has any meat in its products anyway



they do, that's the point. It's been proved and they admitted it.


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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flid
flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire
Member Since: 27th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3136
Posted:yea, there's a lot of companies owned by multinationals. I only actually boycott under 10 companies, but they in turn own 100s of brands/chains in total

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Tao Star
Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 30th May 2003
Total posts: 1662
Posted:yeah, if you boycotted all of them you'd never eat!

i dont eat nestle. but they own (this only the ones i know about)...

Coffee - Nescaf including:
Alta Rica
Black Gold
Blend 37
Cap Colombie
Cappuccino
Decaff
Expresso
Fine Blend
Gold Blend
Kenjara
Nescaf Ice
Organic


Dairy products
Carnation
Chambourcy
Coffee-Mate
Extreme Viennois
Fussells
Ideal
LC1
Munch Bunch yoghurts
Rowntree yoghurts and ice creams
Simply Double
Ski yogurts
Tip-Top

Confectionery & snacks
Aero
After Eights
Animal Bar
Baci Chocolate
Black Magic
Blue Riband
Breakaway
Caramac
Chocolate Cuisine
Dairy Box
Dairy Crunch
Drifter
Fab
Fox's Glacier Mints
Fruit Pastilles
Henri Nestl Collection
Jellytots
Kit Kat
Kit Kat Chunky
Lion Bar
Lyons Maid Ice Cream
Matchmakers
Maxibon
Milky Bar
Munchies
Polo
Quality Street
Rolo
Rowntrees Fruit Gums
Smarties
Toffee Crisp
Toffo
Tooty Frooties
Walnut Whip
Willy Wonka
Yorkie

Contact lens care
Alcon

Seasonings
Dufrais
Maggi
Sarsons*
Bistro Chef cooking vinegar

for more info (for example, why they sold Libby's but it's still on the list! go to here.


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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flid
flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire
Member Since: 27th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3136
Posted:not particularly hard thou, only one of those sweets is vegan, and i generally only drink fairtrade coffee. As it happens thou, nestle isn't on my boycott list. I know the reasons why people do, but i personally don't think they stand up to much, compared with the cases against other coorperations. You can't rate the evilness of a company based on the amount of negitive publicity against them, some just have better campaigns against them than others (eg McDonalds).

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Page: 12

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