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Analemma


Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA

Total posts: 384
Posted:You like Butterflies ? You like the Splittime and its TTN Derivatives especially ??
- Then this one will be the right thing for you !! - Quartertime Butterflies.
The Splittime Butterfly taken from one side to the other looks like 2 Balls jumping from right to left !?! So to say between 3 oclock (right) and 9 oclock (left). Quartertime would then be playing between1:30 to 7:30 or between 4:30 and 10:30. A mix between split time and a normal butterfly.
Example: Start Buttefly 7:30 BHB, bring it to the front and go on playing it 1:30 BHH and back again . . . .
Playing between those and the TTN variations is quite fun and looks not too bad.
The "mathematics" behind it (especially the ttns) are beautiful, one of my biggest interests in Poi and can be applied to weaves etc too ubblove - (yes I would consider myself a Poi nerd biggrin )

Cheers

andreas

PS: To onewheeldave: The onehanded versions look even better and are worth a try !

PPS: Turning of the butterfly from normal to splittime in one direction to backwards to splittime the otherdirection and to normal again is hereby beeing named Turning The Time (TTT) because of the turning-the-sandglass look.
And btw has been invented by ME wave beerchug wink beerchug wave


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:yo,



cant believe it, was thinking about this this very morning. thats badass, really. *is awed once more* biggrin



and Ttn (Theory of threadding needle) thats, just, cool. cool



i remeber an arashi hint a while ago.... umm



im sooooooo bad at this stuff, learning spittime at last, like a new country, its great.



thanks



T wave


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-><- Kallisti

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Analemma


Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA

Total posts: 384
Posted:Thinking about it or doing it for alredy half a year ?!? tongue

I think its time for your Bangkok holiday Mr. Nx! - i need more people to spin with over here weavesmiley beerchug weavesmiley ur always more than welcome! Food and accomodation is taken care of ...

Its a good feeling not to be alone in this Poi-Universe peace

andreas


PS: Where can I get those arashi hints and are they expensive ????


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:just thinking about them *sigh*



absolutly love to, really. badass! smile



T wave



p.s. long months of mining the winding nonsence woven round the weights on strings. wink


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-><- Kallisti

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:this is what was first talked about when someone said the words 'clock time' to me.

i fear clock time has gone on to mean something else that i have yet to interrogate herr glass about, but in the form that i understood it, spinning clock time (or 'intentional crossover point manipulation' or 'moving the transition point') really is badass and i can't even begin to get my head round the possibilities.

andreas it sounds like you have got your head round it and made it work! biggrin
your recent posts have been truly inspirational.
please tell me you'll be at the ejc so i can see all this stuff working... ubbangel


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Analemma


Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA

Total posts: 384
Posted:Would love to go to EJC - unfortunately the ticket to europe is out of question ... ubbcrying

so you guys have to come to Bangkok biggrin



PS: Still have no clue where to get those magical arashi hints ??


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .

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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas, USA

Total posts: 3899
Posted:you'll have to go to Texas for those Arashi hints.

Either that, or wait for him to show back up here... which could take a while.


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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eeek


member
Location: Cottbus

Total posts: 38
Posted:hi andy!



this is the first time that i dare to write a reply to one of your threads here on HOP!



i hope i don't blame myself. wink



but let's see, if i got you right....



if you play it one handed, then you get the 1:30/7:30 version when you move your hand from upper right to lower left and the 4:30/10:30 the other way round?



and with both hands, it depends on which hand gives the first impulse, right hand first, 4:30 version, left hand first 1:30 version?



say hello to the angels around you!



ivo


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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:i reckon this thread could do with a single word that'd make it a bit accessible in laymans terms: diagonal
smile

This is something i noticed recently: i see people doing quartertimed turning butterfly reels all the time, and i'm pretty sure they don't even realise they've shifted the timing...

(if this thread is meant to be focused on opposite-direction quartertime then sorry about the below stuff...)

i've been meaining to work out more quartertime cross-follow/weave stuff, but keep getting distracted or forgetting or trying it for ten seconds and deciding its too hard ubbangel
To keep the right-angle shape that same-direction quartertime stuff has, you'll need to keep one of the poi as the leading one, and the other always following. i think that means that you'd need to do 2, 4, 6 beat weaves, as opposed to the "ordinary" odd number ones. Is that right?

PS. Dom once advised me that when doing quarter-time it helps to think of a galloping horse rhythm, or the William Tell Overture smile


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 15414
Posted:or the lone ranger...

and somehow, thinking of a cow makes balancing on one leg with your eyes closed a lot easier.....try it!


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duballstar
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

duballstar

slack rating - 9.5
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay, United Ki...

Total posts: 2216
Posted:kind of unrelated but when i followed simian's definition link for diagonal i was excited to discover there was such a thing as diagonal cleavage... only to be disapointed by the truth when i went to find out about it! ubbangel

so.....


It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Yeahhhhh... then again, back in the day when I was learning a 4 beat weave I found it much easier to do it in... what I now know to be quartertime. But it was actually just because I sucked. It sounds like we could make up terminology to make up for our mistakes.

I used to think that my 5 beat weave was sloppy but now I can just say that I just kick into a 5/16 time syncopation for the last beat of each side. wink

(Not to discredit any of the positive, clean, clear quartertime spinning that's going on. Most newbies start off with a quartertime weave before they clean it up to split time... er... I mean follow time... or whatever the hell glass is calling it today. wink )


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:hello, been playing more with this, its bloody lovely, but you have to be a drummer to get it.



at first i thought its 5 into 4, but now i think its not, i recon it goeas a little something like this....



| RL . . . | R L . . | R . L . | R . . L |



this is working by beats, the letter denoting when each hand hits the bottom of the circle, put both hand down together you get bf, put them one then the other is split time ect.



thats four bars, each being the diffrent conversion points of the butterfly. the left poi swings 1 quarter beat slower than the right, the first bar ( | RL . . . | ) is the butterfly time (both hands together, RL). the second ( | R L . . | ) is the 'backslash' quarter time, | R . L . | is obvoisly splittime and the last is ther other quarter time, after that it returns to the first bar for the butterfly.



this makes the clock spin one way, obviously to make it go the other its the right hand that loses a quarter beat each revolution.



How you manage to ttn this is amazing. cool stuff man.



T wave



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Analemma


Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA

Total posts: 384
Posted:@ vanice : : (( too far away

@ eeeek : welcome to amazing Thailand eerm ... sorry . . . .amazing homeofPoi : )))

@ Simian: Quartertime Butterfly and Quartertime weave are two different worlds . . . : ))

@UCOF: ???? like always ; )

@ NX : What you describe seems to be TTT - and it seems to be more difficult than it really is. Just try to spin one Poi faster than the other and get the right moment for the TTN and everything will be fine ubbloco


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:yo,

how so diffrent? exept for normal diffrrences in bf weaving...?

whats TTT?

I am spinning one poi faster than the other, but im looking at it as slowing down one poi is all. I think i know what you mean about the ttn,i just want to get better feel for the time. My deconstruction of wheer the beats fall is pretty much right tho yeah?

its slick tho.

T wave


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Analemma


Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA

Total posts: 384
Posted:Quartertime BF and Quartertime Weave have different mathematics of the crossing points . . . but I gonna post some other time about it since i consider it one of the basic aspects of Poi.

TTT: TurnTheTime biggrin

3.) Think its right, but still slick of course ubbrollsmile: and I am far from having proper feel for it (I am at the moment learning the proper feel of ordinary butterflies frown )


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Nxy boy... nicely explained. Essentially one poi is going 1/4 faster than the other one. (Or one is going 1/4 slower which is mathematically the same thing.) Is this what the cool kids are referring to as "clock time"? (As i've never seen it I don't know what you mean by 'the clock'...)

I completely understand it as it pertains to a simple butterfly and could probably even translate it to more complex butterflies. I could see it in buzzsaws (isolated or not)... but I'm not so sure about how it'd work in weave as you'd have one poi pass by the other.

Thanks though!!


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2364
Posted:hey guys.

times like this make me wanna ubbcrying

i know i've spent time typing lots of hints (and even talking wink) about this stuff. but a search of my posts isn't turning up anything. makes me wonder why i bother. aside from teaching the people on the boards at the time it obviously is just lost in the web wasteland and does little excpet influence people through indirect idea progression. well at least poeple are using the clock frame as reference cause it makes things much clearer this was all i could find but KNOW i've ttouched on this stuff. anyways i call it moving the clock but whatever. maybe somebody else will find it.. mad

isolated quarter time i tried to sell the idea on glass but he wasn't keen. i like it almost better than normal time.



-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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rootz


member
Location: chester uk

Total posts: 0
Posted:i don't understand peace

RoOtZ

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:i could find nothing either and don't really remember it being talked about loads on hop before (at least not anything like a thread like this dedicated to it).



i've only ever spoken to drew about it when he suggested it to me about a year ago.



i seem to rmember i said something like 'woah!' and promptly ran away to find some balls to play with wink





[short aside to connect up bits in nx's brain:



try getting either of the quarter time bf patterns to work in flowers.



the 'same plane' bf flower turn that meenik in his video requires clock time like techniques (one poi sped up slightly) to get the poi to meet in the middle of the flower on every beat.



if i'm not mistaken, quartertime crossfollow flowers (standard 4 petals obviously) should work out better with adjacent rather than opposite petals.



on ya go lad ubbloco]


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:woohoo!

cool biggrin

right, arashi, a quote from cole for you...
Quote:
at least not anything like a thread like this dedicated to it



and cole, a quote from arashi for you, from two weeks ago....
Quote:
10:00 to 4:00 four beat ttn ww. never did take the time to hammer that out. friggin left hand.



and also a hug for giving me lots of nice ideas.

spank for the dragon for getting there first but not being able to descibe what he ment, again! tongue ubblove

T wave


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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:and nix, a link to a post from arashi for you that has a link to a to the quote you just gave me from two weeks ago confused

useless link


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:DOH!

bahh!

sorry, links i dont do, cos i cant be bothered to wait for my dialup. I would go hunting for more, but thats even worse.

pah!

hug

T wave


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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Arashi, I've often been frustrated by not being able to find 'hints' and 'clues' that have been posted by the hint and clue givers. Then again, solid, clear, consise posts have changed my world.

As a somewhat isolated spinner (isolated from the Jedi anway) I desperately read HoP with hopes of finding new ideas and moves. I've always been frustrated with 'hints' and 'suggestions' because I can't find them when I need them.

As a contrast, godsends like Nx and Dom will start a thread that changes my world. For example, a while back Dom posted about 'tap backs'... I flat out wasn't at a place where I could assimilate any moves but it stuck in the back of my mind. Months later I was ready and did an easy search to find that thread. I'm currently in tap back heaven and expanding my own poi world in ways that I'd never imagined. It's because the post was written to be a resource. And it was. Nx's click clack wrap thread and flower thread were also fundamental to some stages of my learning. In fact, Nx taking the time to dicuss flowers (even though the concept had been out there for a long time and filmed ans whatnot) inspired me to explore them and teach them to my clan. As a result of Nx's post, many more spinners than he could have thought were pushing the boundaries of flowers thousands of miles away.

Somehow there is a beauty to me in posting clearly. The move becomes a gift to the universe for all to explore.

I've got more to say, but it would be even more off topic.

Huge thanks to folks starting threads like this one. It not only changes my world, but those spinners around me whom I can pass the knowledge and theory on to..


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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laZy
BRONZE Member since Aug 2003

member
Location: Somerset...... England

Total posts: 94
Posted:Um' I thought I had the split time thing down prtty good but what on earth is 1:30 and 7:30? Am I being a total moron? I'm also going to go learn thread the needle cause it's about the only move I haer just as much about as buzzsaw hyperloops....are TTN's hard, can't be as hard as those buzzsaw @~#!ers!!! Which may I add complatley off topic that I now have down to a tee. Also talkiing about butterfly split time to reverse to reverse split time for the hour glass effect. It's sounds amazing but is it possible????
I'm gonna go try.

laZy


as laZy as .....

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joulz


joulz

enlightened
Location: montreal

Total posts: 187
Posted:never had realsied b4 a few months ago that split time was making it look like it was hitting at 3n6 lol
but can someone explain to me why ttn is within the furst moves in the free lesson section? confused i learned that last out of all of them, i jsut dindt understand it and neither do my friends.
but now i am superior biggrin
and about that 1:30 and 7:30 buisness
Quote:
Um' I thought I had the split time thing down prtty good but what on earth is 1:30 and 7:30? Am I being a total moron?


i think i might be almost as confused as u until i stand up, get my poi and try it out but i beleive all u have to do is do a butterfly but tilt your hands slighty to the side cus split time doenst even envolve my hands moving in sincro so ill have to check that out ubbrollsmile
if i dont get it... ill come back for clarifications tongue


it must be green

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Same time butterfly = both hands move up and down at the same time (Both hands are either up or down)

Split time butterfly = Hands move up and down opposite each other (Right hand is up while left hand is down)

Quarter time butterfly = Hands move up and down following one another (right hand moves up, left hand follows, right hand moves down, left hand follows)

In same time, poi intersect at 12 and 6, split time they intersect at 3 and 9, and quarter time they intersect at 1:30/7:30 or 10:30/4:30


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:ok,

its not really a case of tilting the hands, but ill try and explain the idea a bit further first, then how to do it.

right, in butterfly the heads cross straight up and down, like this: |

in split time they cross at the sides, like this: ---

in quarter time they cross at the diagonals, like this: / or this: \

learning with onamatopia ubbloco

to get butterfly you put both hands down together, like this:

| Bom . . . | Bom . . . | Bom . . . |

to get splitime your hands go down one after the other in reglar sequence like this:

| da . da . | da . da . | da . da .|

for quarter time the hands still go down on after the other, but the 'beat' is closer together, more lopsided, like this:

| daDum . . | daDum . . | daDum . . |

like a horse galloping or something.

hope that helps,

T wave


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laZy
BRONZE Member since Aug 2003

member
Location: Somerset...... England

Total posts: 94
Posted:Well that cleared a couple of things up. cheers.

I got the revers split time butterfly and it hurt. ( my rock poi (I call them that(chick peas and lentils in a bag with a bit of string on the end))) have a lovley habit of going for my head. I nopw have an accute form of brain damage which will definatley not allow me to do my economics home work, shame!

I'm gonna try quater time now!!!

laZy


as laZy as .....

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Knoxious
GOLD Member since Feb 2002

.
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 420
Posted:oooh oooh!

*PUN ALERT!*

learning with onamato poi a

heh heh


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:OUT!!

whyeyeotter......

T ubblol


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