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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:So I just got done writing a big, huge paper on obesity (55 references!).



I wanted to share just one paragraph that I think falls among maybe the top 10 most interesting paragraphs I've ever written in my life.



Quote:
Other biologic factors have been implicated in the pathogenesis of obesity. One interesting hypothesis put forward by Dhurandhar et al postulates that the epidemic of obesity affecting Western nations may be infectious in nature. Four viruses are known to cause obesity in animals. One of these, adenovirus 36, has been shown to induce obesity when injected in chickens, mice, and monkeys. Antibodies to this virus are significantly more prevalent in obese human subjects than in lean patients.(24,25,26) If more evidence could be gathered in support of this controversial theory, it is conceivable that immunization against these agents could help prevent obesity in humans.



(24) Dhurandhar NV, Israel BA, Kolesar JM, et al. Increased adiposity in animals due to a human virus. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2000. 24:989-96.



(25) Dhurandhar NV, Kulkarni P, Ajinkya SM, et al. Effect of adenovirus infection on adiposity in chicken. Vet Microbiol 1992. 31:101-7.



(26) Dhurandhar NV, Kulkarni PR, Ajinkya SM, et al. Association of adenovirus infection with human obesity. Obes Res. 1997. 5:464-9







A "fat virus," eh? Controversial, hard-to-believe, and scary as hell. But those references I quoted are pretty damned convincing. eek


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Elanna
SILVER Member since Aug 2003

Elanna

Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise.
Location: NJ or DE, USA

Total posts: 2293
Posted:A virus? Wow....who would've thought?

Thankies muchly for sharing, Lightning! hug
You always have such interesting things to share smile


Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

Pies Jesu Domine *whack*
Dona eis requiem *whack*

Come join us and chat - we're bored! irc.newnet.net #homeofpoi

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:What's even stranger, and I didn't even mention it in the paper, is that there is some evidence that obese patients with the antibodies have better (lower) serum cholesterol values than obese patients without the antibodies.

confused umm confusedumm confused umm confused umm


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Elanna
SILVER Member since Aug 2003

Elanna

Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise.
Location: NJ or DE, USA

Total posts: 2293
Posted:o.O

Now that is very strange....
I bet in 10 years or so, this'll be widespread knowledge, and kids'll be learning about it in their health classes at school.... rolleyes


Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

Pies Jesu Domine *whack*
Dona eis requiem *whack*

Come join us and chat - we're bored! irc.newnet.net #homeofpoi

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Well, the old guard scientists will never accept such a nutty theory. It leaves it up to my generation to investigate the downright wierd theories that have been thrown by the wayside.

Imagine vaccinations against obesity!


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Red_RaveN
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

Neo - Hippie
Location: Sala, Slovakia

Total posts: 358
Posted:You ARE a mad doctor.. : o)) an interesting theory... tho I hope that not all obese people have a virus and are obese by nature coz me likes plump girls ubblove tongue

Smile.. It confuses people..:)

Wonders never cease as long as you never cease to wonder.

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mrFlibble
SILVER Member since Mar 2003

Ghostbuster
Location: York, UK

Total posts: 455
Posted:I've heard of this theory before. Its an interesting idea.

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Posted:I found that when I was a personal trainer, people who exercised more and reduced caloric intake lost weight. No immunization needed.

Not disagreeing that it may be virus-related, but worried that that it will become an excuse and will disempower people from changing their lifestyles! No one can argue with the fact that western lifestyles promote laziness and over-consumption!

Glad you are making a study of such things, Mike! You might be on to something if you study how poverty provides an immunization for obesity?

Cheers!



N.B. As pointed out to me by Narr...poverty in the west means being able to often only afford junk food. This of course would contribute to obesity. Damn, its a catch 22.

So how can the medical establishment help all of us to eat and exercise better?



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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:There are a lot of things that need fixing. like school canteens for example (this is a common bitch of mine that i feel is appropriate here)

at my school canteen, from $5, you could easily buy a pie and a soft drink.
however if you wanted to buy a salad roll and a juice (only half the size of the soft drink!) you'd be pushing to make it within $5!

and lifestyle where so many things now come with liability so kids miss out on being able to simple play.

however that thing about the virus is really interesting!


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:so what's the vector of this virus?

Fat is an Organ too!


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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mech
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"

Total posts: 6207
Posted:lightnings not a doctir, he just wears the coat

hes am super doctuor, in a normal docs diguise.


mike, another well founder topic of convo, persoally (after eation a piece of toast, a small bacon buttie, a crupmet and a choc muffin) i am over weight im aroun 14stone, and fat..

But i am going to the gym to try and work some of it off, and while i am a lil worried about my weight, i ain going souly to try and burn some fat off and try to make myself a lil fitter!

but i do think your point is correct i read this point about fat viruses in new scientist a while back , but have heard nothing more on it!??!?!

woud be interested yto hear more form you oin this point mike

thanks

laterdays

hug


Step (el-nombrie)

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Eera
BRONZE Member since May 2003

old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay

Total posts: 1107
Posted:Looking at a couple of the abstracts it strikes me that the data is far from conclusive: of 52 obese subjects only 10 showed antibodies against the avian adenovirus implicated. The low levels of cholesterol and triglycerids associated with this antibody indicates that these are exceptions. Once again, despite the hype, it looks like there is no way to be thin other than put less in your mouth and move around more.

Saying that, 10 years ago stomach ulcers were known without a doubt to be caused by "hurry, worry and curry". Nowdays a breath test for the presence of Helicobacter pylori and a dose of antibiotics will sort 90% of them out so he may be on to something.


There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:Quote:
...poverty in the west means being able to often only afford junk food. This of course would contribute to obesity. Damn, its a catch 22.





Not true, healthy veggies are always cheaper than junk burgers etc. You can buy 20 kilo's of potatoes for 2 for example (not implying you shold live on tatties tho of course). It's just a combination of effort, education & bad habits over time.

Quote:
....So how can the medical establishment help all of us to eat and exercise better?



Only by education but basically it can't, we can only help ourselves.

Although it's different for us all, and obesity doesn't always mean ill health it's just a majority. I used to know a girl who was a vegan, technically classed as obese, yet was a world competitor in triathalon and healthy as hell. The difference between fat and unhealthy should be promoted more.

Nice reading Lightning, it's good to hear about these things like fat virus's!! What would we do with out you eh?! hug


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:The other interesting is that I, personally, was obese four years ago. Through diet and exercise alone I lost ~25% of my body mass and have managed to maintain that weight loss (with some small fluctuations).

Why could I do it while most of my patients just can't? What explains the rare spectacular success story like me? The literature clearly shows that diet and exercise can cause a loss of 10-15% of body mass on average and warns healthcare providers to warn patients that few patients ever lose much more than that in the long-term.

What's different about me?


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:probably determination and positive attitude.

Let's relight this forum ubblove

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Rossco


Rossco

Official HoP hobbity potato monster!
Location: Cardiff, The Diffshire

Total posts: 434
Posted:will power! it all comes down to temptation at the end of the day. when i first moved out of home i lost about 3 stone just because there was no longer a pretty much endlees supply of food in my cupboards.
also walking to work helps! especially if you live about 5 miles away from your 9-5 home!! wink


O.B.E.S.E. Official Potato man.

Remeber kids.... Its all fun and games until someone loses a bol**ck! biggrin

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dR pSYcHo
SILVER Member since May 2003

dR pSYcHo

member
Location: Nottingham (UK)

Total posts: 88
Posted:I agree with comment on power of studies, it's similar to the whole leptin argument; They were discovered in Notts apparently and some drug company paid an absolute fortune for data etc, only to subsequently discover there are only a handful of people in the WORLD with leptin deficiencies (i think it's that way round).. ubblol. Have to laugh at them anyway! ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol

There were some papers recently concerning the addictiveness of high fat foods. They put it on par with (unsurprisingly) opiates. The westernised diet predisposes to being caught in this addictive loop, and as your tolerence increases you eat more to sait it... Another interesting theory, but then exercise is also meant to be addictive (endorphins and all that).. Lets just play one addiction off against the other and end of running round like a donkey with a stunted leg ubbrollsmile

Obesity huh - It's big buisiness tongue


taco taco taco taco taco taco taco taco taco taco taco taco taco taco taco taco taco taco taco taco taco Damn those MexICan BANdits taco taco taco taco TACOFICATION taco taco taco taco taco taco

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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:Quote:
There were some papers recently concerning the addictiveness of high fat foods. They put it on par with (unsurprisingly) opiates.



I think this is more down to nature and the fact that the basic sides of our brains will hunt for and consume easy hi energy foods as apposed to harder to digest lower energy value foods. It's survival instinct more than anything IMO.
In the wild you'd choose FAT over a vegetable everytime if it was up to instinct, and once you've gotten used to the same source (ie junkfood) your sub-consious brain conditions you to always consume this. But I'm not sure if it would count as addictive or not....what defines addictiveness anyway? Is it the ability to survive without it or just the will to consume it?


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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Rossco


Rossco

Official HoP hobbity potato monster!
Location: Cardiff, The Diffshire

Total posts: 434
Posted:Quote:
our brains will hunt for and consume easy hi energy foods as apposed to harder to digest lower energy value foods.



the secret of the atkins diet is that all the foods you eat even though are fatty, your body works harder at breaking them down and so uses more energy which is why you can eat so much and still lose weight!

watch out for the bad breath! tongue


O.B.E.S.E. Official Potato man.

Remeber kids.... Its all fun and games until someone loses a bol**ck! biggrin

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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:Quote:
watch out for the bad breath! tongue



Yeah and real bad farts too aparently!
Non-Https Image Link


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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spritie
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX

Total posts: 2014
Posted:I think doctors should start looking at those people who are skinny no matter what they eat or how little they exercise. There is bound to be something within them that makes their bodies remain thin.

Is it harder to go after something that might cause a person to be slim than it is to figure out how to make them slim medically?


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Rossco


Rossco

Official HoP hobbity potato monster!
Location: Cardiff, The Diffshire

Total posts: 434
Posted:Quote:
I think doctors should start looking at those people who are skinny no matter what they eat or how little they exercise. There is bound to be something within them that makes their bodies remain thin.



i think most skinny people call it a "fast metabolism"
i call it a load of b$%^&ks.

everyone is in shape!
i'm in shape! (round is a shape) biggrin


O.B.E.S.E. Official Potato man.

Remeber kids.... Its all fun and games until someone loses a bol**ck! biggrin

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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:remember that guy from Stereo MC's? He was skinny as feck and had to go on record as saying he wasn't a smack head (although if you saw him it's the obviouos first conclusion) it was just his fast metabolism!!

Let's relight this forum ubblove

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Quote:
There were some papers recently concerning the addictiveness of high fat foods. They put it on par with (unsurprisingly) opiates.



But the literature is pointing towards endocannabinoids more so than endorphins as being responsible for the hedonistic aspect of eating.



-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Rossco


Rossco

Official HoP hobbity potato monster!
Location: Cardiff, The Diffshire

Total posts: 434
Posted:i remeber the guy.(blatent smack head) but i dont remember the incident but it just helps to prove my point! cheers! beerchug

keep off the smack! peace


O.B.E.S.E. Official Potato man.

Remeber kids.... Its all fun and games until someone loses a bol**ck! biggrin

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Quote:
I think doctors should start looking at those people who are skinny no matter what they eat or how little they exercise. There is bound to be something within them that makes their bodies remain thin.



Well, there has been a lot of research into that. The leptin-melanocortin system is one area of research.

Whatever the case, the average American consumes 1 million kilocalories per year. A change of 5% would lead to a 15 lb. change in body weight per year, so powerful physiological mechanisms must exist to control body weight, given that many adults maintain their weight to within a few pounds without much effort.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:I think it gets complicated when links are made between certain factors.

All too often scientific discoveries are grossly oversimplified upon interpretation.

I'd hate to see poeple make poor eating choices because they heard that a virus causes obesity. The American diet and lifestyle causes obesity.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:On a tangentially related note

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:tee hee hee....I can't imagine the Mister Simmons
Non-Https Image Link
would actually slap anyone particularly hard!! He's soft as a brush! He probably called them a funny name you most often heard on the playground before he ran away!!

Respect to him tho, he's the biggest advocate of weight loss by excerising and eating healthily. I've never seen a grown man (or any other for that matter!) who cries cuz one of his class can't shift a pound or two!! ubbcrying


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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Posted:Hmmm, I wonder how many calories one would burn with a slap? wink

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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane

Total posts: 3044
Posted:i used to be technically overweight, but ive recently got into an exercise habit, and have reduced my food intake to a third of what it was. im 21, and was eating the same as a 16 yr old still - now ive stopped growing [i hope!], i really didnt need to eat as much.
i now have muscle definition on my abs!! manboobs are no longer! yay for pecs!
im comfortable about spinning with my shirt off!!

anyway, ill stop feeling vain now....


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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Page: 12

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