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SmokyDavy
Do my poi look too small in this?
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Member Since: 17th Jan 2002
Total posts: 394
Posted:One thing I've noticed everywhere I go is that different people dance in different styles. This is true with poi as well as normal dancing (no props).

People who're into poi seem to have heard of 'liquid dancing', but very few here in London have ever seen it in real life.

In Toronto, there are several dancing styles that people use.. The 'bunny hop', 'kick step','liquid', 'quickstep' and in most cases they differ in style from person to person.

In London, and all over europe (from my observation) they don't have so many people that are *trying* to dance. They just dance.. In whatever way feels best. So I think most people end up dancing in a very conformist way. (one foot always on the ground, arms waving to the music. stomp one foot a random amount, then stomp the other foor a random amount.. always use the heel)

The only people who I see *trying* is women who are trying to dance sexy, and people into hip hop who're trying to dance like the people in the videos. (mental note to people who do that, those moves are meant for choreographed dances with 4 girls in bikinis and one rapper with his/her shirt open. It doesn't look as good with just 1 person)

There are WAAAAAY too many north americans who I hear telling me that Europeans "don't dance". Which I can understand most europeans finding offensive. I've said to people from Canada and the US.. DANCING IS RYTHMIC MOVEMENT!!!!
http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=dancing
br>
I've also noted one more that I want to ask the Aussies about. I saw it the first time in London, the girl was dancing on her toes like an american, but she would pivot and switch between her toes and heels and strange angles. I saw it a few other times and every time I saw it I would ask them where they're from. Australia, every time... At first I thought it was australian, but then I noticed that all the people I talk to are from Melbourne in particular.

I really dug this dance, its got a lot of funk in it, and I found myself imitating it a lot. One nite I went out partying with some aussie friends of mine, from melbourne in fact, and both of them noticed the way I was dancing. One of them actually said I dance like an aussie.

He described it as the "Melbourne Shuffle". The girl said she had been in london for so long that she's lost her funk and hadn't danced with her feet leaving the ground in ages.

^^^ Okay, way to babble on about bullsh*t when I should be working!! When the cats away the mice will play!

Wanna know though, has anyone else noticed this stuff? Can anyone think of other parts of the world where people dance with footwork? Liquid dancing?



SmokyDavy
Do my poi look too small in this?
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Member Since: 17th Jan 2002
Total posts: 394
Posted:sorry for the double post! *cringe*


Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5687
Posted:why not just delete the old one? Or does a mod need to do this?

Anywayz - I think you've hit the nail on the head here. I've been learning Liquid for a while (more for contact than poi) and people have always said I'm a good dancer, but here in the UK, learning styles of dance, or even dancing other than the "heel down and wiggle" approach seems to be frowned upon in the UK, especially for blokes. Which makes everything very dull.
I was in a local bar a couple of weeks ago and this couple of guys were Popping to the music. I went and talked to them as they were good and I like learning new things, but looking around the pub you could see they were being stared at, more for being weird than appreciation. They guy was apparently one of the best in the UK and was setting up a class (mind you I lost the card) but he hadn't hearn of Liquid... I tried to demonstrate it and he said it was mix beteen "Popping and moonwalking". Like I said I'm just learning (and was very drunk) so I might not have been the best example.

As to why this is - I'm not sure. I guess if you're big on the Rave/Dance scene you'd have a better reponse - but from my POV, the only style of dance that seems to have and credibility is Breaking and that looks really sh!t if you're bad at it.


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:I took care of the duplicate SB...never fear!

SmokyBowl, I've noticed it too. Groups all tend to move the same way especially. Each one will say they have their own style, but if you watch closely, they are really so similar it is hard to discern from, and each one moves like their teacher, for obvious reasons.

The toe thing is not exclusive to Melbourne and may have strong roots in Belly, Spanish dance, and many other forms of dance. Then again, historically speaking, it is believed that all dances are derrivatives of traditional African dance (and you can pinpoint where most all the moves developed from when you watch), since Africa has the oldest known/recognised dance movements.

But this kind of isolation style stuff is common, with the ego thing in it, because if you don't have an ego about it then your dancing can't be right which means it must be *oh-no*, Weird! Historically, the gypsies saw the same thing, and adapted what they liked of all of the different dances to make one of their own. So their dances are flavoured with steps from Egypt all the way to Italy. It is a kind of movement evolution I think.

I went to a Bellydance Seminar/Workshoppe this past weekend, and everyone there knew everyone else, except me (I am not affrontal in the local bellydance community) and was amazed to see the people all having the same style, to the point where they even completely left out some basic movements because they haven't been emphasized within that community. It was interesting to watch but almost scary since I really blend alot of styles into my own dances (Including some hip-hop moves which I adapt to fire as well. If done well they need not stay in videos. Then again, I choreograph more than I wing it ). While I learned alot and had fun, it was a very cliquey group as well, and that made it difficult because if I did something my way then I got funny looks. Oh well.

Anyway, Yes, I too see it. In a way I think it is a form of stagnation but in a way I also see the evolutionary benefits from it. In the end who cares, as long as they are having fun!

[ 16 April 2002, 01:17: Message edited by: Pele ]


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


SmokyDavy
Do my poi look too small in this?
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Member Since: 17th Jan 2002
Total posts: 394
Posted:I've not met any people in the UK who believe that their dance style is 'THE' dance style.

I've had people look at me because of the way I'm dancing, but I've never had anyone put me down for dancing differently. Though I definitely did *feel* that way.

I've never heard anyone from the UK or europe say that they think north americans or anyone else for that matter doesn't dance. (although I'd guess that more north american men won't dance without a girl or without being totally fucked on drugs/alchohol than european men, especially in the sports/macho subcultures)

That thing about the gypsies is really fascinating. I've been doing the same thing as I travel, though I've only been picking parts that I feel fit me personally.

The melbourne shuffle I liked because of its funk... The european style of dancing I like cause it takes very little energy so you can do it even if you're incredibly tired..

I can't stand egyptian dancing, especially since its meant for slower music and when sped up it becomes very chaotic. They like to hold their arms out wide and swivel their shoulders while stomping and shaking their ass. This causes a sea of arms stretched out and swinging around, hitting people constantly. I've never gotten hit in the head so many times in only a few hours of dancing.

I do like the egyptian girl's dancing though, where they swing around their hip in a seductive way. But thats cause I'm a guy, I like hips and I like girls.. 'nuff said about that.

When you say all dances originate from african dances, what exactly do you mean? Central Africa? Do you mean their tribal dances? or are you referring to their courting ritual dances.

[ 16 April 2002, 04:04: Message edited by: SmokyBowl ]



Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:What I learned in dance history class was that all dances can be traced back to African Tribal dances, being the most ancient dances. And it is very true.... In dancer speak there is a step that essentially goes "Step..ball..change" What this breaks down to is essentially land one foot flat on the floor, land the other on the ball of your foot while the flat one comes up and then switch feet (Poorly explained, sorry:(). Now, this move originates in African tribal dance and was adapted to Nubian (Egyptian) dances. From there it made it's way into Spanish dancing, Flamenco which has broken it's way into Salsa and Lambada. It also headed westernly and can be found in Turkish dance, Italian Folk all the way into Gael Step dance. Because these came over to the America's you can also find it in Jazz dancing commonly, hip-hop and nearly every other type of dance you can think of, including Ballet.
Breakdancing has a basis in hip-hop, jazz, and bellydancing...As do several of the new pop-n-lock routines, all of which can be traced back through other dance forms to African Tribal.
In essence what anthropologists believe is that since human life seems to have started in Africa, so then does many aspects of human life. Since dance is one of those, and the African Tribal dances have exsisted for millenia, then it is only simple deduction that the moves we do today can be traced back to them, and it really does work. The "S-B-C" is one of many we had to pattern back.
Did that make sense?


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


SmokyDavy
Do my poi look too small in this?
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Member Since: 17th Jan 2002
Total posts: 394
Posted:thats a very interesting idea. It works really well I think.

Actually, I have to rethink my statement about european dancers again.. I've heard that 'the Fridge' had a "Stomp Contest" where they judge who Stomps the best. So much for dancers not being snobby about their dance style here. On the other hand I've seen people in Toronto tell someone they shouldn't dance because they don't dance *this* way.

Durbs.. Whats "Popping"?

What is "breaking" and why does it get credibility?

[ 16 April 2002, 07:58: Message edited by: SmokyBowl ]



Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:SB...I know here in America Breaking is short for Break Dancing and Popping is short for Pop-n-Lock (which uses movements similar to hip-hop and breaking but you freeze them and then kind of "pop" into the next one with a jolty motion...it's hard to explain). However, that is from this edge of the ocean. As for credibility, I dunno.
I've never encountered that type of snobbery in a Toronto club, then again, I didn't go to alot of the mainstream when I went there so.....


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


surreal
surreal

member
Location: Texas - US
Member Since: 1st Apr 2002
Total posts: 6
Posted:Hey All,
I have noticed different regional spinning styles as well as different dance styles.

The cool thing about this is that it creates new opportunities of growth for your personal style.

It is too bad that some folks cop an attitude about others ability to dance or express themselves.

My reply to this post is to encourage EVERYONE to try out as many new styles (dancing and otherwise)and expand your horizon.
You would be surprised how adding hip isolations while you are spinning can really change the look of what you are doing and amaze others.

Remember you can always learn at least one thing from everyone you meet no matter what.

If you have the time, take a class or more in a different dance style and see how you can layer it into your fire dance.
Modern, Jazz, World, Fusion, or regional club style dances all have something cool about them.
Since fire work is so arm and upper body intensive I would recommend at least looking into a dance style that has cool hip and lower body isolations. That is why Bellydance is still my fav with fire.
*For all you MEN out there* guys can learn to Bellydance and they look HOT doing it.

Personally, I have been a belly dancer for around 10 years and it is just about the only way I can dance in clubs etc..
People always look at me since I am definitely NOT dancing in the standard club-rave mode.
I love having a different way of expressing myself and if they seem to disapprove of something differentwell they are the ones in a box, not me.
More often than not folks love to see something new.

I have studied North and South Indian (the country) dance, Flamenco, and Rom for the postures, arm and hand movements.
Belly dance encompasses not just Egyptian styles of modern cabaret and gwahzee but also the individual dance styles of the countries of the Middle East and North Africa and American Tribal style.Polynesian styles also kick butt too!


Dance is the symmetry of elegance in strength,
control in passion, and precision in motion


phunky
old hand
Location: Edmonton, AB
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 877
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Pele:
SB...I know here in America Breaking is short for Break Dancing and Popping is short for Pop-n-Lock (which uses movements similar to hip-hop and breaking but you freeze them and then kind of "pop" into the next one with a jolty motion...it's hard to explain). However, that is from this edge of the ocean. As for credibilityJust to clarify somethings about Popping and Locking that i've learned the last year or so. There is no such thing as Pop n Lock. Only Popping and Locking. The 2 are completely different dances. Popping involves tensing your muscles so it appears you're "hitting" on the beat. Where as Locking is more of a funky dance that involves finger points and wrist rolls. Both dances fit into the category of "Funk Styles" because they both were intended to be danced to funk music eg James Brown and such. (liquid is not considered a funk style btw because it originated in the Electronic scene)

Also, even if you combine the 2 styles it's disrespectful to the original creators of the dance to combine the names. eg. If you do Liquid and popping you're not "Liquid popping" or if your Ticking and Tutting (Ticking and Tutting are one of the many sub-genres in popping) you're are not a "Ticker Tutter".

Here is an example vid of:

Locking

Popping

Tutting/boxing

sorry, couldn't find a ticking video.

[ 16 April 2002, 13:24: Message edited by: Fe Fi Fo Phunk ]



Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Fe Fi Fo Phunk (that still cracks me up!)

If Pop-n-Lock doesn't exsist then how is it that I know people who teach it?
There are video's available that teach and illustrate Pop and Lock, including those by Darren Henson and Fatima, who are both well respected choreographers. Just because you don't agree with the blending doesn't mean it isn't accepted and done commonly. The blending of styles is what creates evolution...much like poi and fire.
Just because it doesn't exsist in your world does not mean it doesn't exist.

[ 16 April 2002, 13:56: Message edited by: Pele ]


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


phunky
old hand
Location: Edmonton, AB
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 877
Posted:Those names are actually familiar to me. It's been discussed before on dancing msgboards i go to. Basically what they do is a commercialized version of the original dance. It is not correct terminoloy. Not my opinion, it's fact. When i meant there is no such thing, there is such a thing but it's called popping AND locking. Popping is more of an umbrella term for various dances eg Hitting, Tutting, Waving, Ticking, Strobing, Animation (all which incorporate tensing of the muscles)etc. You need to have a good foundation on all the dance styles and not just pick and choose certain moves from each style. Sure you can combine them but if you're at a Popping competition, there will be a competition for waving, a seperate competition for tutting etc etc. Lastly there will be a freestyle competition and then you get to show your combined dance. Many people at these types of competitions know 10 or more funk styles. It does not make them a Popnlocking-tickstrobing-wavinganimator. The correct terminology would be "Funk Stylist". I'm still pretty new to popping, if you decide you need more info on the matter drop by

www.mrwiggleshiphop.net or
www.shaddupanddance.com or
www.reflective.net (liquid pop collective forum)

mention anything about "Pop n Lock" and you'll surely be grilled on why it's not proper to use that term.

[ 16 April 2002, 14:58: Message edited by: Fe Fi Fo Phunk ]



Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5687
Posted:yeah - sorry; Popping = Pop n' lock and Breaking = Break Dancing. Not sure why it gets more credability than any other stlye though.

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


phunky
old hand
Location: Edmonton, AB
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 877
Posted:Breaking is very acrobatic, which is why spectators love it so much. I can't say in my experience that breakers get much respect from fellow dancers. Anybody with at least some knowledge of the dance knows what is difficult and what are crowdpleasers. The crowd pleasers are know as "Power Moves", while some are difficult most just take a lot of strength to pull off. Most of the time when you see breakers, all they seem to do are power moves and not dance to the music. Basically they do it to get the biggest crowd reaction. Which is why most have a bad reputation.


clare
member
Location: Perf, australia
Member Since: 10th Nov 2001
Total posts: 82
Posted:pop'n'locking! that just sounds like gross body dislocation. urgh.

what's been making me curious for a while, do people outside of perth/australia (im sure it MUST be australia) know of/do The Lawnmower Dance? or its close relatives, The Going-Shopping Dance, or the Burgling A House Dance?
everyone ive ever seen does these dances to make other people laugh, just coz theyre so stoopid. but everyone seems to know The Lawnmower Dance at least.
is it a worldwide phenmona? if i dont get any replies, i think im gonna make this its own thread. im really curious.



SmokyDavy
Do my poi look too small in this?
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Member Since: 17th Jan 2002
Total posts: 394
Posted:clare,

never heard of any of those. Aussies have a few dances, the 'shuffle' was the only one that i liked. The one I thought was the most funny was this big box small box thing that I've seen a lot of Aussies doing, its like they're making different sized boxes with their arms. As well as this one that looks like they're either composing or writing the music with their hands.

Didn't really get into either of them though... I don't find them very attractive, or fun to do. I have seen this cat-burglar one you were talkinga bout, from an Aussie who was being silly and trying to make me laugh. From what I understand people are more about having fun on the dancefloor than trying to look good (like they do in america).

"You need to have a good foundation on all the dance styles and not just pick and choose certain moves from each style. Sure you can combine them but if you're at a Popping competition, there will be a competition for waving, a seperate competition for tutting etc etc. Lastly there will be a freestyle competition and then you get to show your combined dance. "

I don't believe that I *need* to do anything with my dancing styles. But, I don't believe in *dance competitions* for various reasons, so thats probably why I don't feel that I should be told what I can or can't do..

IMO, Competitions work to institutionalize and traditionalize how people should express their dancing. People should be pushed to be different and from a spectator's pov, what is beautiful is largely based on your own tastes.

I'm sure a lot believe that competitions drive people to be more original, but I'm living in a pretty creative city, with a lot of brilliant performers, and I've never even heard of anyone having a 'competition'.

Popping and Locking: I've seen people dancing with stuff that looks like those two combined before in toronto. I can see popping working well with poi.

Pele: How close are you to Toronto? I'm gonna be moving back there this summer and I'd love to come down and visit!

[ 16 April 2002, 23:38: Message edited by: SmokyBowl ]



Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:"stomp one foot a random amount, then stomp the other foot a random amount.." It's not a random amount! It's carefully calculated depending upon the music type, tempo, and phase of the moon!

People naturally join up into groups, and part of being in a group is mimicry of the group culture. Therefore people who party together will dance and dress similarly in order to be more comfortable together, and identify with similar groups. May have something to do with the regional styles thing.

Within the "underground" (awful word, sorry!) club scene in London I think people tend to just dance for the joy of it. And it's great to see people just cutting loose and dancing however. If they're enjoying dancing then it's great to watch. But in more commercial clubs they're definitely posing a lot more and trying to show off more when dancing. There's always the ulterior motive.

Me, I just dance however I feel like at the time. When you're so tall it's hard not to look awkward when dancing, so I reckon "F**k it!" and just move!



Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Smoky Bowl....the Artist-Formerly-Known-As- Phunky proved your point however about the not breaking away from mindsets and styles (not trying to offend phunky, you know I have nothin but love!). He is so locked into his ideas of what ideal dance is that he is refusing to see that what he does has evolved into something else. Different styles, different places.

Lawnmower? Burgler? Box Arms? Never heard of them but they sound funny. HOWEVER that doesn't mean they don't exsist here under other names, or under no names at all, or in some other part of the US under the same name. In America there is more of a "do this" mentality, not an "understand and name this" mentality. I agree, people here tend to want to look good instead of having fun, but I don't dance in a club to make other people happy anyway, I dance to make me happy however the mood strikes!

I live 1 1/2 to 2 hours from TO, depending on the traffic on the QEW. I can come up there as well. There is a small contingent of people up there who spin, but don't seem to congregate. Maybe we can change that? How long will you be back for?


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


Knagi
member
Location: Brunswick, Ohio
Member Since: 28th Jun 2001
Total posts: 397
Posted:O, O, o! I see where this is going.

We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonIt's going to come from a direction you didn't predict at a moment of chaos which you didn't see coming. -- NYC


arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:just as a side note, my good friend does trance dance gatherings, in which everyone is blindfolded, and breathing techniques are taught beforehand... and everybody just moves to the music. totem animals and other shamanic shit is thrown in too. he is trained to host these gatherins in case anybody wigs their shit and starts turning into a bear or something. we sometimes do these workshops along with our fire shows, and i think it's cool to let others in the dance community (ie this topic) know about this kind of dancing, i feel it is truly the mother of all dance. it's pretty powerful, too.

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.


phunky
old hand
Location: Edmonton, AB
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 877
Posted:A lot of people don't believe in competitions yet Figure skating is in the olympics. I believe ballroom dancing is in the olympics also.

When i also talk about dancing i'm talking about Funk Styles. Which has an origin and a history that can be clearly traced back. I never said you couldn't combine the 2 dances, everyone does, just don't make up a new name for it when you do. As for foundation wise, learn poi without learning the weave and butterfly. You could do without but overall picture wouldn't be as good.



rftek
member
Location: college station, tx
Member Since: 26th Oct 2001
Total posts: 101
Posted:very cool thread y'all! the historical origins of dance are intriguing. i wish i had started going to electronic music events earlier in life, i'm just know getting my groove on, throwing down some liquid moments. luckily i can always rely on the ol russian rave kick dance!

what the hell is the running man dance anyways? it seems i've heard that adjective all my life but have never seen someone pointed out, "damn thats a badass running man!"

arashi: i'm curious about the trance dancing, what kind of music do they listen to during?

watching someone who is good at pop,lock,liquid,is just amazing, transformers! breaking is very cool, i've been watching a lot of kungfu lately and have been noticing strong similarities between some of the ground moves and breaking. theres a studio here in austin,tx that teaches a breaking class. i can't decided between that or some martial arts..

peace!
peace!



Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:rftek

Try looking at Capoiera, it is a Brazilian fighting art that has long since become more of a dance. Very lovely and culturally rich indeed and a nice sort of combination between the two. In this you can get the best of both worlds!


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


SmokyDavy
Do my poi look too small in this?
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Member Since: 17th Jan 2002
Total posts: 394
Posted:"A lot of people don't believe in competitions yet Figure skating is in the olympics. I believe ballroom dancing is in the olympics also."

I don't really agree that those should be in the olympics either.. They give a 'technical' mark and a 'creative' mark if I'm not mistaken. 'Technical' I can see as having merit, but judgeing someone's style is like judgeing someone the most beautiful person in the world.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder



Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 15965
Posted:There's a dancing style particular to Sheffield. It's always a good aid when looking for people who're "safe" to talk to at massive raves and free parties. Not sure how to describe it but anyone who has seen Orange dance will know the style I mean.

Anyone who dances like that must be a nice person. That's the way I see it anyhoo....


"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean


arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:well the reason you never heard anyone say "damn that's a badass running man" is because it has got to be the dummest thing i ever seent in my life. you just jog in place really exaggeratedly, throwing your arms and feet way out in front of you- everybody does it exactly the same-while it's great exercise, i wouldn't exactly call it dancing. and the trance dance music varies, usu. it's tribal drumming, but if the crowd is a drum and bass crowd(YAY), for instance, we play the musicthat they like. the idea is to get them to let go, however that may be. he's been djing for like 16 years so he can play anything. okay i hope my joke doesn't offend any avid running PERSONS out there! all in fun!

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.


phunky
old hand
Location: Edmonton, AB
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 877
Posted:quote:Originally posted by SmokyBowl:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholderCouldn't agree with you more. You can't judge style.

When you dance, there are certain things that characterize what kind of dance it is. When you add other elements into it you can't just make up a name because it borrows from other dances. I'm of course talking about funk styles. The orginator of that dance defined what that dance is. I can't comment on other dances because i don't know enough about them. This argument is kinda like someone naming the "fountain". Sure people use the name but it isn't proper.



Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Simultaneous bouts of creativity. It exsists. When two people who don't know one another think the same idea at the same time, name it two different things and it moves where ever they were located under that name. I have seen it a few times with shows in the Ren cycle.

I learned the weave, others learned the same move as the spider. It doesn't make the move different or the name any less correct, just different. Same thing with the different names for poi (I have heard a couple). Exact same thing with dance, *all* dance. To say any one person created any dance is really not correct at all, especially now-a-days. They got their moves from somewhere else, so what makes them renaming it alright but someone else who figures out a way to evolve it can't? Absolute BS!
MUCH of breakdancing and many funk styles were taken from Indian (not american), Tribal and Marial Arts. Each one of those moves had names. Each one of those styles had names. And now they are called Liquid, Breaking, Popping and Locking? Give me a break. The original names didn't sound cool enough so someone added some extra movements here, tucked them there and renamed it. I don't see Geisha's getting pissed at Burlesque dancers for stealing their moves, and trust me, they borrowed and evolved several of them. What makes funk, with a much shorter history any different or immune? A bunch of people on a board? I think not. Please open your mind a bit outside the funk sphere! Just because a board you were on named it something does not mean it is correct for everyone, just like the names for moves on this site aren't correct for everyone, because not everyone has seen it!
Names for these things are not wrong, just different. It's like telling someone saying Dio instead of God is wrong, when it is the same reference, different language. And yes, move names change world wide, even in the oldest dance traditions.

Oh...I heard a great quote today "Dancing is a conversation between two people. Shut up and talk to me." I loved it and thought it would fit in here!

[ 17 April 2002, 15:46: Message edited by: Pele ]


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


phunky
old hand
Location: Edmonton, AB
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 877
Posted:All dances borrow from other things. The difference is someone laid down a FOUNDATION on how to do a certain dance. There is a creator, and that creator intended HIS/HER dance to be danced that way. There are ways to spot differences in types of dance.

Breakdancing and Capoiera are similar yet different. Tell someone who does Capoiera that they are breakdancing would probably offend them and they would tell you the difference. A person who chooses to learn a dance should learn the history behind that dance.

I'm sure we both could argue this forever. Do you want to agree that we both disagree on the subject Pele?



Kaos
member
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Member Since: 28th Feb 2002
Total posts: 11
Posted:This thread is fascinating, partially probably because I never really though of twirling as being another form of dance. Sure I use the term fire-dancer but until I read this it didn't really click for me. I guess I've typically thought of twirling as first and foremost performance while I think of dance (non-pro anyway) as recreation. Big mental plane expansion!

I'm not familiar with ANY of the dances or moves you guys are talking about except breakdancing of course and Capoiera. Popping? Liquid? What the hell? I'm not much of a clubber because I can't stand the pretentiousness and there's not really much of an "underground" here in Calgary (we're all happy little conformists here). So I've never been exposed to this kind of "dance culture" if you will. I'm interested though (any resources?).

I enjoy dancing, but only when I don't feel like I'm being scrutinized. Yes I worry about my image too much I know. I only recently felt comfortably enough in my body to start really expressing myself so gimme a break! Still, I love it. When things are going right (and this has only happened a few times) I just go to pure instinct. My friend, into Shamanism and stuff calls it metamorphosis. I've only fully metamorphosed (basically turning into an animal) in private thank-God, but I've had some great "partials" when dancing.

Now I personally think that learning dances, moves and so forth is definately a good thing. Your body learns to move in new ways, you can develop your flexibility and muscle tone, all sorts of good stuff. I'm very interested in learning Capoiera for exactly that reason. However I think that at the end of the day you have to just let your spirit take over. Learning new moves and stuff gives your spirit a fuller vocabulary by which to express itself but I think you have to just let it speak and if that means a combination of belly dancing, jive and Capoiera, well so be it! Better yet, do it with a flaming stick!

====================================
- Kay O. Sweaver
"We can dance if we want to. We can leave your friends behind. Because your friends don't dance and if they won't dance then they're no friends of mine."



kAte*
member
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member Since: 31st Jan 2002
Total posts: 15
Posted:clare, the lawnmower dance! *teehee* hilarious stuff...

what about the fruit picking dance? or digging a hole, throwing frisbee, road rage, the list goes on! endless possiblities, however it's open to debate whethere one would actually consider it dancing or not

over here my friends call them collectively the 'stanley dance'... cos it usually takes a few glasses for them to get up and showcase their talents



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