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Forums > Social Discussion > When does being good at something become arrogant?

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Rozi
100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted:I am spinning with a uni club at the moment, and I feel really weird about it. For a start, I feel way too old. I am a staff member there, and by god do I feel like the odd one out amongst the students.

I am better than the other poi spinners there. I know more, and I can put it together more smoothly. But there are some amazing skills around me and some nifty new ideas. Its just that I feel so strange about teaching. If I walk up to someone and say "hey, what can I teach you?" it will sound so arrogant. And it shuts me out. Its not so bad with total newbies, but with those who know a lot already. I don't know how to bridge the divide of age and skill level.

Any suggestions?

And if any of you were there, please know I think you are lovely. And I may seem quiet and strange and arrogant, but I am just feeling uncomfortable. Its not you, its me.


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...


Valura
Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member Since: 25th Apr 2002
Total posts: 6391
Posted:Age is but a number, life experience makes you wise sweetie, and from what I know of you, you would be able to relate to anyone at all.....
I think prehaps the best way to approach it would be
"would you like to share? Prehaps you could teach me some new things or share some new ideas and vise versa?"
then help them to smooth out some of the moves that you may have noticed that they are almost getting.... believe me, when they 'get' the move they will be so stoked that the thought of arrogance will not even enter their heads...
That way its an exchange... they help you and you help them...

Thats how I approach when I see someone doing the two beat and really trying to get the three or something like that...

BTW Bov arsn and I have agreed that there isnt an arrogant bone in your body love hug


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"


mech
mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"
Member Since: 9th Jun 2003
Total posts: 6207
Posted:Quote:
BTW Bov arsn and I have agreed that there isnt an arrogant bone in your body love



i rekon they are right!

i dont think you can be arrogant and ask for help at the same time?

as fr the spinners have you thought about sayig,
"ok today ill be demoing and teaching 'move X', if you wnat to know how to do it, or how to imporve it, ill be overe here."

or just winder over to ppl and say
"hey could u teach me that(even if you already know it) and then offer them somthing in return?

have you thought about taking an assistant, who you would teach and then they go off and teach one group and you teach another group, so that ur not dealing with all teh group at once, and trying to cater for all manner of ppl, for example they could teach teh newbies, and you could teach teh techies?

dont stress sweetie, ull be fine kiss


Step (el-nombrie)


Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:I'll easily find a beginner to teach, an expert to swap ideas with, but it's the intermediate spinners who are the hardest to reach. Arguably these are the people who need more help to get them past the block of "I've got loads of moves, where now?"

It may well be that these people learn best, or just prefer to learn, by watching other spinners. I know I do this, so fair enough.

If I'm in a teaching mood I'll look for to see who's attempting to learn a move. If I see that I can give them a little bit of advice I'll go up and say "If you want a bit of help with that try...". Sometimes they'll ask more, a lot of the time they won't. So it goes.

And in my experience there are people who don't want you to teach them because of their arrogance & ego. A minority though.



mech
mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"
Member Since: 9th Jun 2003
Total posts: 6207
Posted:ubbcrying dom didnt teach me anything, and worse he refused my biccies, oh woe is me! *runs off like scarlet ohara!*

i agree with dom, spinners like me are the worst kind, its not cos we dont want to learn, it could be mantal block, and laso the choise of moves to go with?


Step (el-nombrie)


polythene
veteran
Location: London/ Surrey
Member Since: 15th May 2003
Total posts: 1359
Posted:I try and remember that no matter how good a person is /thinks they are at something, there's always someone better. Even if you're top of the food chain, doesn't mean you don't have an equal, who's neither better nor worse, just different. Therefore everyone can potentially teach you something new. Personally, I like to learn new things smile.

When someone offers to help, it doesn't hurt to say no thanks (nicely), or that you already know that one but would like to learn this one... So if you offer to help and the person is rude, just don't bother with them again. Maybe if someone's struggling with something you could start with 'hey, you know what looks really nice with that? This move goes into it with a really nice transition....' Artistic input can be taken better than 'teaching' smile


The optimist claims that we are living in the best of all possible worlds.
The pessimist fears this is true.

Always make time to play in the snow.


Tao Star
Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 30th May 2003
Total posts: 1662
Posted:always remember there is arrogance - thinking you are better than everyone else, and something similar which people often mistake - knowing you are good at something.

As long as you stay away from the first and always keep in mind that people can surprise you with their abilities i'm sure you'dd be appreciated!


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.


NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:I thought arrogance was the point! What's the point of being good at something if you can't make someone else feel badly about it? Damn tree-huggin hippy communists. wink

And hey, I'm an intermediate level spinner and I'm always willing to learn.

As far as teaching others, I find it useful to look at teaching in terms of a 'trade'. I usually ask about particular things they want to learn. You can also make yourself humble by reminding them that you once didn't know 'it'. Like "Oh, let me show you what I learned from Dom." or something equivilant in staffspeak.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13919
Posted:I'm not arrogant. I'm just superior to all of you. wink

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura


simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:Tao Star say:Quote:
always remember there is arrogance - thinking you are better than everyone else, and something similar which people often mistake - knowing you are good at something.



Yup, what she said smile


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


Kat
Kat

Pooh-Bah
Location: London
Member Since: 13th Dec 2000
Total posts: 2211
Posted:I don't want people to teach me because I am so retarded at learning new moves, and afraid that someone is going to start using poispeak, which to me sounds like 'gurgle, burble, transvers, blah, blah, isolation, blah, blah. Simple - you try'. biggrin
Whaaaaaat!

Even though I have been a HOP member for a while, I still tune out when I hear this, so if you notice eyes glazing over, it may not be anyone perceiving you as arrogant - they might just have no idea what you're talking about wink


Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.

- W B Yeats


GottaLoveIt
GottaLoveIt

Sponge
Location: Stevenage
Member Since: 21st Sep 2003
Total posts: 883
Posted:Quote:
I am so retarded at learning new moves, and afraid that someone is going to start using poispeak, which to me sounds like 'gurgle, burble, transvers, blah, blah, isolation, blah, blah. Simple - you try'. biggrin
Whaaaaaat!





Hehe yup yup, plus there's lots of different words for different things *my brain*


Monkeys monkeys and bananas


Flynt
Flynt

Intrepid Penguin

Member Since: 12th May 2002
Total posts: 5635
Posted:I always start by giving a person a compliment on a move they've just done, something that they are doing nicely, or if they are struggling with something, by telling them they almost have it! Usually they'll be sorta frustrated and will ask, do you know any thing that will help me? or wont mind if I offer a tip. Then when they've got that trick down pat... they want to learn more, and they bring a friend.

I dont think it's arrogance at all.

I think it's time swapping. I get such a thrill out of seeing people nail a new move, and it's obvious to them, that they enjoy it as much as I do?


Currently on the right side up of the world.


Rozi
100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted:I have the best cure for arrogance in the rest of my spinning life. I hang out at Glebe, and with a bunch of jugglers originally from Newtown & in Hyde Park. I get visitors from overseas and interstate. And they all know stuff I don't.

It is just such a weird position to be in, to arrive at a place and be the one who is furthest along with the skill.


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...


NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:I know the feeling Rozi. It's especially weird when you know so many brilliant and amazing spinners elsewhere. I always want to grab the newbies around me and shake them and yell "Don't you people know I suck?!?!" frown

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:Quote:
I am spinning with a uni club at the moment, and I feel really weird about it. For a start, I feel way too old.



Imagine how I feel then eek wink biggrin

Quote:
Any suggestions?




(jumpng up and down with one hand in the air)
oooh, oooh, pick me, pick me

maybe if you show me some stuff others might be interested, it might be a way to break the ice....maybe some spinners might join us for a mini learning circle..... smile



Rozi
100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted:ubblol at NYC. I think we are on the same wavelength.

Ummmmmmmm... I pick.... Ade!!!



It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...


ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted:from what others have said i would be guessing its not u its them, alot of spinners are shy and if they think that you are better at twirling than they are they may not want to approach you when your spinning, if u always offer to teach new ppl when they rock up and make it really obvious that ur keen to teach u might find more of the intermediate spinners start askin for help

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?


mech
mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"
Member Since: 9th Jun 2003
Total posts: 6207
Posted:Quote:
"Don't you people know I suck?!?!" frown

ubblol ubblol

i remeber a picture taken in a pub in sheffield that proves that deer sweet nyc ubbangel


Step (el-nombrie)


Narr
Narr

(*) (*) .. for the gnor ;)
Location: sitting on the step
Member Since: 15th Apr 2003
Total posts: 2568
Posted:and i remeber a picture of flids that probes (eek frouidian slip me thinks ubblol ) proves you do too tongue
EDITED_BY: Narr (1080046327)


she who sees from up high smiles

Patrick badger king: *they better hope there's never a jihad on stupidity*


coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:Quote:
I always want to grab the newbies around me and shake them and yell "Don't you people know I suck?!?!" frown





try that ish with me, i'll bitch slap yoo into next tuesday.



its a personal thing - i really don't like it when my friends tell bare faced lies to newbies.





and while we're on that subject, about those 'beat' thingys... wink





edit: i haven't seen said photographic evidence so no comment on that particular style of sucking...

EDITED_BY: coleman (1080053472)


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Naw dude, I know I don't SUCK. I'm a happy little intermediate level spinner. There are a ton of us. I don't dance, I don't flow, I can do a bunch of moves that would take a newbie about 4 months to learn. Which is decent.

But when people who don't know better bow down, it gets annoying. Only because I KNOW that, by contrast, I'm just an intermediate level spinner. I'm a medium sized fish in a very very small pond and people are calling me a whale.

And if you got a problem with my beats, then try some of these for size: spank


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:aw man, the paddle?
again?!
well, okay...

*reluctantly assumes the prone position over nyc's convertable dodge*

"oww!!
thank-you sir!
please may i have another!"

spank kiss

err, this thread had a topic, right...?

i say being good at something turns into arrogance when you start feeling the need to tell people how good you are.
cf. the robert heart files.

i, like nyc, sometimes find it hard to accept compliments, especially when in your own opinion, the comments are overinflated.

if ever someone asks me to show them something (unfortunately like rozi, i don't get asked that much nowdays and i never approach people i don't know to show them stuff cos i am a little bit shy redface) i avoid any uncomfortable "i'm showing you this" feelings by using large amounts of self depracating humour - especially focussing on my limitations when it comes to poi spinning.


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:I think it also comes down to what you value.

I honestly don't value poi ability all that much. I'm not playing sour grapes here but I don't judge people by how good at poi they are. I can't say that's true for everyone. I'm sure that there are people that work "Poi ability" into their internal ranking of an individual.

I do respect the amount of time and effort that people put into poi, but it doesn't hold a candle to how they treat me or other factors that I respect much more.

I don't like Dom or Glass or Cassandra because they're good at poi. In fact, it's pretty far down the long list of "Things I like about" them. And I don't like Coleman at all. And he's the best in the world. kiss

I guess it's an offshoot of arrogance and not directly related. But it seemed relevant.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


Djnn
member
Location: flames of the netherlands
Member Since: 11th Sep 2003
Total posts: 79
Posted:I find it's how pure your intentions are in teaching that matters.

If you are teaching a newbe something to blow up your own ego and sit back and watch them wack themselves over and over again...I can find the teacher being a little arrogant.

I've been teaching poi now sence December and I must say that of all trades that can be taught poi spinners are some of the most helpful teachers.

It's not easy to teach someone something that "just clicked" for me one day. I learned most of my moves from hours of pratice and then some of my students are picking it up in an hour or two.

I've been teaching my girlfriend sence New Years and she's already on moves that I did't learn till my third year of spinning.

And none of this is because I an amazing teacher...<- ego comment

But its not all in the moves or in not sounding arrogant when your trying to help someone. If your trying to help them because you like sharing with people the vast feilds of knowledge you personally harvested, please do so share the wealth the world will be a better place.

And I would love to thank all the people (who will forever remain nameless to me) that stopped me on any beach that I've ever spun on, just to share in a stranger spinning moment. I learned alot from you all.





Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:I reckon being good at something and being arrogant are on two seperate continuums.

Newbie---------Expert is about skills
Humble---------Arrogant is about personality and is not causally related to skill level.

There are arrogant people who really arent that great at what they are doing, we've all probly met some of these types, especially in IT or Martial Arts for eg smile

Then there are people who are amazing at what they do, but dont rub peoples face in it.

Almost all of the most amazing spinners I've met have been pretty humble about their skills, only intermediate spinners ever seem to try to pass themselves off as gods gift to spinning smile

Josh


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!


bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:Quote:
I reckon being good at something and being arrogant are on two seperate continuums.

Newbie---------Expert is about skills
Humble---------Arrogant is about personality and is not causally related to skill level.



I hardly never agree as much as i do with you post often.
right you are Josh!
:nodding graemlin:


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always


Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:I think in those stiuations Rozi (in answer to your question) the best thing to do is just do what you do, and go and learn what you want to from other people. Show that you are the kind of person that proactively seeks out learning and perhaps others will feel that they can do this with you. But just remember, there are many people who dont really care about learning stuff, and prefer to show off to other people with those limited skills they have, rather than show there are gaps in their knowledge by asking to learn something smile If they want to learn what you know, they should feel comfortable in approaching you. set up this environment and people will be happy to approach people to learn.

Also, I think you should be a bit wary of 'teaching the right way' sometimes people are happy the way they are, and even if they seem to be going off down a deadend learning path with their poi, you never can tell. I've got a friend who never learned how to turn around (he'd go from forward and then turn 180 and still be going forward)...but now he has this crazy style, which he wouldnt have if I'd HOP cookie cutter taught him 'the right way' years ago.

hug

Seeya mate!

Josh


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!


Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:perhaps because the spinners who are arrogant and beleive they were sent by god, are less likely to explore new ideas and new moves because they dont feel the need to. ive met a few of these guys - id also say they are less likely to teach others as well - and teaching others your moves gives you a much greater understandning of your own spinning.
the more humble person will always try to learn more, even if its a simple idea from a newbie.


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.


Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:Also in teaching all your badass moves, you are bringing people up to your level so to speak, and some people dont want to share their homemade first place podium *shrugs* 99 times out of a 100 they arent really there anyway smile

Josh


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!


bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:there is an old Bene Gesserit saying that defines the issue at heart in twirlrrogance:
"The Universe is ruled by perception."
We all need a Meenik, a Josh, a Knoxious living around the corner so that the worlds of inner perception and reality are much closer. peace


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always


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