Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:First of all, I am going to tell a macabre story, so if you are in an upbeat mood, don't read it.
Next, this is not for sympathy. It is about someone I was acquainted with, not about someone I really cared for.

However, the person in question is the nephew of my sister (through her husband).
Four days ago his mother and younger sister left to run an errand. He was told to fold the towels and they would be right back. He did.... and then he got dressed in some kind of punkish outfit, which scared the crap out of his ***very*** religious family, and....well, here is where the story gets weird. No one knows what happened. They found him hanging from the stairs by a dog leash. frown

He was 15. Smart. Part of his church youth group and well embraced in that community. He had some form of metabolic disease which caused him to pass out randomly. He had a very dark sense of humor in which he would pretend to pass out or disappear or do things to scare his family.

The family says that they think he got dressed up and was going to "mock" hang himself as a joke. They believe he passed out and it really happened.

The police think it was suicide, but after searching his locker and all of his belongings there is no evidence.

It goes unanswered...and there are so many questions. Why would anyone fake such a thing? Why, if you know you have this illness, would you even play at something so dangerous? What could be so bad at 15? I know it sucked, I remember...but still. confused

This effects me in three ways. I remember him as a baby. He used to laugh alot. I am exactly twice his age, so I have known him awhile, and I am sooooo confused.

I am a parent of a (recently turned) 9 year old boy. What can I watch for? What can I do? This freaks me out as I recall having suicidal thoughts myself and then reading about them finding out that boys are statistically more apt to commit suicide than girls.

This is the second "suicide" (both by hanging) in less than ten years for my sister's family (the other was my brother in law's best friend). Now, I am not fond at all of my B.O.L. however, no one deserves to go through this, and I am not sure how to be there for my sister's family.

Advice? Thoughts? Insights? Opinions? This has me stumped.

Thanks in advance,
Pele


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug
ubbcrying frown ubbcrying frown ubbcrying frown ubbcrying frown ubbcrying

Pele, being a young person with a chronic disease, I know that it can make you very depressed. And if you're bright and high-functioning, which it sounds like he was, it can go unnoticed a long time. Depression is one of the biggest killers of young people.

I'm so sorry... ubbcrying


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:Quote:
Advice? Thoughts? Insights? Opinions?



I daresay you will never get the satisfactory answer you are after, all I can offer is hug suicides, apparent or not, will always leave you with many questions that are just unanswerable. There are many of us who have had to face this monster, we walk with you at this time ubbcrying


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Medusa
Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...
Member Since: 25th Nov 2003
Total posts: 1433
Posted:I wish I could be of help Pele but as someone who has lived through one of my best friends killing himself there is never any answers.

You can ask what there is to look for and what you could have done different but truly nothing would have changed it.

They have this uncanny way of hiding things so you will never know what is going on in their brains.

I am sorry for the pain that this has caused you and your family...I totally understand and feel your pain.

I wish I could be more help to you.

hug hug hug hug



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Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:is there ever a logical and rational explanation for most of the suicides that happen?

when i was 15, 2 guys who were friends with several of my school mates did the same thing, once again with dog chains. no-one had any idea why they did this.

my uncle gassed himself in his car when i was too young to remember. not everything was going perfectly with his life - but nobody had any idea that inside he was in so much inner turmoil.

in that moment where they commit to the decision to take there own lives, do they realise the trauma and pain they will cause those who love them? who knows.

its hard to predict whats really going on is someones mind... with a child, and the constant changes and development he/ she is always going through, the only thing really that you can do to try to control such a terrible thing is the knowledge that they there are always people who will love them and listen to them no matter what.
but even that doesnt stop it all the time.

take care everyone. hug


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted:Quote:
It goes unanswered...and there are so many questions. Why would anyone fake such a thing? Why, if you know you have this illness, would you even play at something so dangerous? What could be so bad at 15? I know it sucked, I remember...but still.



its a tough age especially for smart children, high school was a living hell for me and i though about suicide on several occasions.

Quote:
I am a parent of a (recently turned) 9 year old boy. What can I watch for? What can I do? This freaks me out as I recall having suicidal thoughts myself and then reading about them finding out that boys are statistically more apt to commit suicide than girls.



the only reason im still here is because of the support of my parents, the best advice that i can give u is firstly to listen to your son and i mean really listen to what he has to say if he doesnt feel that he can tell you everything he wont, whatever happens if he tells u something really shocking dont react listen to what he is saying. secondly teach your son how to fight, even if you dont condone violence i can guarentee you that every boy will be in many fights throughout the course of their school life no matter where u send them and there is nothing worse than have the sh*t kicked out of you regularly and not being able to do anything about it especially if you cant talk to anyone about it for fear of rejection/shame/dont want to be a bother etc etc


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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vanize
vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:I think either explaination is potentially valid. It could easily have been an accident given what you said about his sense of humor. On the other hand, I believe that the suicide rate among teens is muc higher than in the general population. What can be so bad at 15? well, pretty much everything. Being a teenager sucks if you ask me. It was the only time of life i ever thought about suicide. When I was a teenager, I knew several people that tried to commit suicide.The to that were succesful were both male and neither left any indication as to why they had done it. In one case you could guess, but the other remains a mystery. Recently my 15 year old niece tried to commit suicide by over dosing on antidepresant pills. Luckily one of her friends called looking for her that evening an my sister found my niece passed out and was able to get her to the hospital in time. She didn't leave a suicide note, mention her suicide plans to anyone, or anything.

My regards to you and your sister's family Pele. hug


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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mech
mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"
Member Since: 9th Jun 2003
Total posts: 6207
Posted:Quote:
my uncle gassed himself in his car when i was too young to remember. not everything was going perfectly with his life - but nobody had any idea that inside he was in so much inner turmoil.




this is the most common problem, ppl dont relise that deprseeion is a soul destroying issue, youi can be fine, and ahhpy on eth outside, but being eaten on teh inside, belive me.

Pele i am so sorry you are having so much strife all at once, and i know the road ahead looks dark and cold, but we are all here to walk with you lady! pls dont let things lik ethis stop you being you.

I am also sorry for all those in this thread who have lost ppl, its hard......

and while i would rather hug you in person, for most of you this will have to wait, so pls take a hug and ill give you for real someday!


laterdays


Step (el-nombrie)

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Spanner
Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere...
Member Since: 27th Feb 2003
Total posts: 2790
Posted:Some have been known to "mock" up suicides: not as a joke, but as artistic expression of the way they feel. It's not macabre to me, but it's sadly not unknown for these experiments to go wrong ubbcrying

I'm not sure there's much else you can do apart from to keep being a great mum, Pele. My parents weren't much help when I told them how I felt even before 15, though this may be due to their own suicidal feelings - my mum took an overdose before I was born and my dad was found gassing himself in his car. Although things are fine between us now, I know that they could have made a big difference to how I felt at the time.

It's the little things that count, and which I'm sure you have your own family versions of: talking about his day at school, just making sure he's keeping up in class & homework, taking interest in his social life both inside and outside of school...I'm not saying that your nephew didn't have family support, but more about the importance that it is maintained between every parent and their child.

He had a dark sense of humour, but the way you describe him, it also sounds as if he was a very intelligent and considerate young man. So when your family are ready, you may feel you would like to make a point of celebrating the more positive aspects of your nephew's life and personality with them.

Much love and respect,

span x

hug


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Let me clarify something for a moment here. He was not my nephew. I was not close to him and so in a strange sense, this does not hurt me at all, just left me confused, though I appreciate the empathy and support. However, if effects my sister and her family tremendously. It effects how I look at my son, because the idea of losing him (in any capacity) kills me, and knowing he is close to the age of these thoughts, knowing I tried sleeping pills and vodka when I was 16 (friends got to me first), knowing that suseptible kids usually appear to be fine on the outside...I want to start something now with him.

Thanks for the advice on that too. I really appreciate it.
As far as being interested in his life, he feels I am too much sometimes, because I ask alot of questions and care about things like...his room, his homework, his social life and hobbies (i refuse to let him just sit around and watch tv all the time). The reason why it is in my head so much is that he has two friends, both of whom talk about suicide when they are really upset, and Noah a few times has mentioned when he is angry that he feels he should never have been born. I know it is an angry emotion, but I don't want that to turn to despair. We do talk about it, and cuddle and try to work through it. Still...because you never know, and because this one was close to home....

I think the worst note in my life from a suicide was the best friend of an old boyfriend of mine. It simply said "Things that make you go hmmmmm...?" It would have been better if he had said nothing.

As for the possibility of it being accidental. It is still completely plausible. Around Halloween everyear several people die from an ill thought out hanging mock up.
Creepy to think of really.

Thanks all, again and always!
Pele


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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_Aime_
_Aime_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hastings
Member Since: 2nd Jan 2004
Total posts: 4172
Posted:This has really struck a cord with me and I really don't know how to write down what I'm feeling.....
Only that all I can think of is what a waste it was of a life.
Quote:
What could be so bad at 15? I know it sucked, I remember...but still.





rolleyes it SUCKS ASS .

No-one understands you
No-one knows what your going through
No-one believes that your mum is a sly, decietful, control freak
No-one could possibly ever make yuou feel any better...
Some times I think Im just being a teenager and that my mums right, I am a cocky lil bitch, and I never do what I'm told, I deserve to be punished......and then other times.....I'm just exausted with evrything....trying to be clever like my lil sister, trying to 'behave', trying to keep up with my school work, trying not to spark off an argument....and your right. It sucks big time
How can any of us try to claim 'why' he did it. No-one can understand the reasons for people killing themselfs, except for that person themselves.

I know it sounds wrong, but I can only hope that he did intend to kill himslef and that he was not trying a mock-hanging...

frown


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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Quote:
I know it sounds wrong, but I can only hope that he did intend to kill himslef and that he was not trying a mock-hanging...

frown




Actually Aimee, I agree with you. If it were an accident it seems far more tragic and upsetting, if that makes sense? Accidents are more confusing and painful, with the whole not fair thing and all.

At least if it was intentional, even though there is no reason exactly, there is cause....youthful confusion.

Not that either would bring peace and healing.

Though I know that their belief is that if you do commit suicide you burn in hell, so, I am thinking that accident, in the mind of the family, brings less shame? I dunno.

Personally, I don't think it was. But that is just me.

Kindest Regards All,
Pele


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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flash fire
flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 25th Jan 2001
Total posts: 2758
Posted:Hmmm, yuck.

I think the best thing for you to have an open relationship with Noah in this context; by talking through this experience with him; explaining to him how the death of this boy has caused you to worry about what the future holds for Noah.

The best way to remain objective in situations is by having been exposed to them previously. As awful as this sounds, there is something positive to be gained by this boy's death - it shows all those who are touched by it the depth of its effect. Let Noah see it, talk with him from your heart. He's a switched on kid with a very cool and expressive mum. Now is the time to open up dialoge.


HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Youth suicide is a huge problem in Australia, and no one knows the complete story. Check out Youth Suicide Prevention Kit or do a google search of Aust. Sites on youth suicide prevention.



If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Puk
Puk

Sweet talented nutter
Location: Brisbane Oz
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2002
Total posts: 2615
Posted:Pele well im very sorry to here this and its not unsuall for people truely wanting to commit suicide . (not leaveing a letter)

I had a friend that thought life basically wasnt going to get any better so he went and killed himself .

The problem is that most people (and especially young men )are too scared to reach out ........
{so the best thing is try to teach your boy to not be scared to share his emotions , (im trying to do this with my nine year old sister )}.

Anyway have a dropbear hug


that shrewd and knavish sprite

Called Robin Good Fellow ; are you not he that is frighten of the maidens of the villagery - fairy

I am the merry wander of the night -puk

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OrangeBobo
OrangeBobo

veteran
Location: Guelph, ON, Canada
Member Since: 21st Nov 2003
Total posts: 1389
Posted:hughug

It's never good hearing news like that, wether you knew the person or not.

And being a teenager is *so* confuzzling. Everything used to be so happy, and simple when I was a child. I have several memories of my childhood, when I remember just being simply happy, with no reason to be other than the fact that I was just there with my friends and family.

Now, I look around me, and I can't count on my fingers and toes the number of kids I know and see around me that is either on anti-depressants, depressed, suicidal, self-mutilating, anorexic, bulemic, bi-polar, or has been in the ward for some reason or another. And everytime I blink, someone else is screwed up.

I just wonder, why? I mean, kids had these problems to a degree before, but look back 50 years ago, and was it this serious? I don't think so. Thenagain, I could be caught up in the helplessness of it all, and it could cloud my logical vision.

I mean... I feel like I'm different, because I don't have to go to a councillor or psycologist for some reason or another. (generally)

Not that I don't feel like that from time to time, which I don't deny. I just realize, I guess, that it's just a bunch of chemicals in my head, and hormones in my body, and EVERYONE goes through it. For me it's less of a depression normally, but more of a identity crisis! I always feel like I need to do more, to make myself something in this world, to be recognized for something.

THEN AGAIN I know people still trying to find that out, and they could be 10 years my senior. So, I know it'll just be time until that is discovered. I just don't want to wait!! tongue

As to why us kiddies are like this so much more... I honestly think it's because of the amount of stress put on us these days. I think we're expected to be and do much more than the previos generation. A lot of the time I feel overwhelmed because I have so much to do, and not enough time to do it. And on top of that, manage to have a social life big enough to let me develop relationships and social skills.

I've had this conversation with my parents. And they actually agree with me, about the whole stress thing. As for how close parents are to their children... I suppose it would help in situations. But more than anything, it's our "friends" and peers who make or break us. And... Well, I don't know how parents can control that, because if I wanted to hang out with someone my parents didnt want me to, I would be able to figure out a way to do it.

I think the biggest barrier between kids and their parents, is that they feel they can't trust them completely. And I don't think that kids know how much parents may actully understand from time to time. In most cases, I think the parents would generally be adept enough to deal with the problem, and help their kid with it. At least I hope, because these kids do need help, and if their *parents* aren't there to help them... Then someone better be there.

Erm. Wow, I've ranted quite a bit. I better stop ^^' Just hope I contributed a bit, from my point of veiw at least...

hug to you Pele, and everyone else who's had to deal with a situation like this. It is not pleasant at all...

~ Bobo


wie weit, wie weit noch?
fragst mich, wo wir gewesen sind...
du fehlst hier

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Lyra
spiny norman
Location: Cincinnati,damn it
Member Since: 24th Feb 2004
Total posts: 314
Posted:i think part of the reason people commit suicide is that its something they can control, they're usually depressed beacause they feel they cant control their life, so they choose thier death instead, suicidal people are usually too depressed to realize it, but suicide is one of the most selfish thing you can do, yes your freeing yourself from tormate, but people rarely consider what their actually doing to the people around them, or they just dont care, as to how to protect your son, just be very aware of him, its all you can do, >>>much luv

if you think that our kiss was all in the lips, come on you got it all wrong man, and if you think that our dance was all in the hips then, oh well, do the twist -The White Stripes

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Lyra, it's very true that feeling out of control of one's own life is a major trigger of depression. But genetics are involved, too. Some people never get depressed, no matter what happens to them. Others get depressed for no apparent reason.

A study was done with rats where they put them in cages and turned on lights at random times, played loud music at other times, tilted the cages, shocked them, etc. The rats showed signs of clinical depression very quickly.

In another group, a red light always came on 5 seconds before something unpleasant happened. Those rats had a much lower rate of depression. This is because they were given a warning. Interesting, huh?



-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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