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Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > You can go to the ball.....

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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:edit- now with descriptions - Of one characteristic member of each family.some families have 60-100+ members.

and over simplified definitions of ways of spinning and of fundamentals, you should get the idea



In reverse order:

Moves:

as if I'm going to write out a list



up one level to:

Families:

CROSS FOLLOW - weaves and variations

BUTTERFLIES - see hop lesson for a simple butterfly ( a butterfly is still a fly.)

WAIST WRAPS - oldskool clubswinging term, for me the carry defines the wastwrap. lush vaiations btb and butterfly

STARTS - play

STOPS [inc. stop wraps]

REELS - Reel (simpelist butterfly reel) = low wave or mexican wave + a lot of variations

oldskool clubswinging term. Look it up in schatz, watch the gandini clubswinging dvd. ailing that you can be pretty sure that if its wall plane and you have a poi on each side of your body than its a reel variation.

PARTIAL ARCS - incomplete circles in lots of different ways eg pendulums

JEDI MOVES - the one that isn't logical: defined as stuff that I and almost nobody really understand fully and is concepts that are really really hard. members don't tend to stay in here for more than a year or 2, because, as more people learn them they become far easier to learn (somone type global conciousness in here,) because as we gain understanding we learn how to teach it, and because we get to see it IRL and in videos rather than just in our heads. so it used to be that 5bt btb weave was jedi, now its just very difficult. Part of the reason that it exisst is that its often not completlt clear where now concepts are going to fit in when they are finally fleshed out, so it kindof existed as a holding group when I made the list for stuff that is really hard and we don't fully understand and haven't got solid. by the time it becomes mainstream nobody really thinks its Jedi anymore.

ISOLATIONS and taking the weight off - see below, buzzsaw isolation was one of the first also known as illusion

THROWS - toss juggling poi

THROUGH WRAPS

TANGLES - inc hyperloops and airwraps

BIG CIRCLE LITTLE CIRLCE - see below

SEPARATE [independent] - disconnect your arms and have 2 brains

BUZZSAWS / INSIDE - spin a wheel with short poi follow time

SPIDER - follow time, spin in follow time anywhere, you can think of it as one move (arashi classification) or as a family (ww cross follow etc traditional club swinging classification) and as a way of spinning. It becomes a game to extend your spider, add btb, add wall plane, add long arm etc etc. )then go do a split time spider then butterfly, then parallel etc)

BODY TURNS

ILLIGAL MOVES [ edit: wink ]

FOUNTAINS and FLOWERS - edit oops forgot this sub family of cross follow. flowers are very simmilar to fountains if you reverse the major circle

There are more or less depending on your breakdown smile



up one level to

Ways of Spinning:

FOLLOW TIME: same direction 180 apart. like you do in cross follow or 3 bt weave.poi point in opposite directions

PARALLEL TIME: same direction and parallel, , its the simplest time to understand

BUTTERFLY TIME: opposite direction crossing at top and bottom

SPLIT TIME: opposite direction crossing at sides. same rhythm as follow time but poi travelling on opposite direction so they cross at 3 oclock and 9 oclock

QUARTER TIME (ugh) poi at 90 degrees

2:1 // 3:1 // 3:2 // X:Y // X:1 - one poi completing one revolution everytime the other one does two? and so on and so on.

CLOCK TIME- jedi at the moment, so I won't describe. variation on x:y and specically playing with 5:4 big circle little circle wall plane

BIG CIRCLE / LITTLE CIRCLE - combine long arm with normal circles or isolations - play with circle size eg

flowers

VERTICAL

HORIZONTAL

INCLINED

DIFFERENT PLANES - ATOMS (poi spinning on different planes) - OTHERS non atom

eg - vertical and horizontal - one poi on each

TRINITY



up one more level to

The Fundamentals:

BASIC CIRCLES - Shoulder centre (long arm rotation - watch pk or jo derry do it cleanly very hard to do well)

- Elbow centre

- hand centre (normal spinning)

- mid string centre (isolation see below much difficult)

body turns - (move yo' ass)

HANGS AND STILLS (and gilligans) - po hanging straight down post modernist poi swinging

PULL THRU's - when the poi climbs up to 10 oclock tug so it flys acrros to 2 oclock and chops off the top of the circle etc

CRITICAL MOMENTUM: when near the top of the revolution, the speed of the po at the top of the arc falls below a certain speed (aside: it think its about 2m/s or 6 ft/sec for the old timers and yanks if your hand is stationary but i wouldn't trust the math i do late at night and your hand isn't stationary )...

where was I, ok, below a certain speed at the top the tension falls to zero. and the po falls off the circle for about a quarter to a third of a circle, but still completes the loop around the hand.

Ideal for drunken master style. very difficult to have any plane control or timing, but thats just more drunk, very nice feeling at the po fall over your hands plop plop plop. much easier if you don't try. mostly poi ntless

THROWS & RELEASES - letting go

CONTACT MOVES - po head or string in contact with some part of the body and still moving

ISOLATIONS - difficult analogous in many ways to club swinging snakes. the po rotates about a point in the middle of the string. powered isolations - rotate about a point between centre and head. lame/lazy or bad isolations rotate about a point between handle and midpoint of string.

WRAPS - po wraps around part of your body and unwraps again recoil or stop wraps- bounce off and come out in reverse. thru wraps unwrap because you moved the limb they are wrapping round to the other side of your body

SPIRAL - play with spirals

CONSTRUCT/helix - this is super dark, and I'm not going to explain it here, its the most complex concept in poi that I have ever understood. I can now explain it. but expect your brain to cook. id saw its utterly jedi to even form a mental picture the concept in space. biggrin



EDIT:

also if you want to get serious about terminology - get a copy of schatz (I've lost my copy, have i leant it to you??)

gillings can be very useful, but not all of it is correct (fountain is counted wrong, and very difficult to under stand in places, but http://www.semlyen.net/cosmosjugglers/lib/contents.htm.
br>
__________________________________________

It isn't complete. They're my definitions, in my list of moves. (And if you're using expressions like families / hyperloops / isolations / and about 1/4 of the terms up there you're using words defined for poi in my list)



before you get really confused, most moves live in more than one family, and most moves have cousins in every other family. (if you want to develope your spinning, take any move and transcribe it to another family, or to another way of spinning.... eg take a weave, put it in split time get a split time butterfly weave).

one last thing: my recommendation is that you don't put your effort into try to work out what other people have done, don't waste your effort trying to disentangle badly described poi words. use them mearly as inspiration, its far more rewarding to explore the teritory for yourself, and to define perfection in poi for yourself, and to always aim and strive for that point.

\end technical nerdy poi spinning mode



I wish you all clean planes and down right dirty dancing

Drew

biggrin


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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:cheers dude..

most usefull.

were the ratios to do with one poi completing one revolution everytime the other one does two? and so on and so on.

whats an example of a jedi move?

Reels?


clock time? (both poi, same time, same direction, wall plane?)

pull throughs?

spirals?

helixes?

hug


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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:smile hug
extremely nice one
biggrin

i have a similar(but different) set of cross references up on my wall at the moment(in lots of need of an update, the last one was three months ago...)


but:
wink

please don't completely ignore the technically difficult in pursuit of aesthetics. for who know what beauty may come from geekdom?

smiles and much appreciating hugs.

printout coming my way for to compare with my listings(which incidentally if anyone is interested in goes into more detail on the moves front, but less on the concepts...; i could post in its own thread....?)

i can't help but wonder how many people keep a self-encyclopedia in some shape or form...?

smileR


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:eek hug

*starts transposing to stick* ubbangel


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:absolutely wicked. biggrin

now cue the endless questions for clarification on these names ubblol wink



[edit: seems it was the first thing to have happened!]









and as for 'HOP=JABOSK?', possibly...

or maybe some of us are just feeling our age recently...? wink

EDITED_BY: coleman (1078926792)


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Tao Star
Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 30th May 2003
Total posts: 1662
Posted:Quote:
whats an example of a jedi move?




yeah, i'd like to know that too. I thought it was a general term - is there a specific definition?


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:If the cool kids are being cool and suggesting that hyperloops are a subsection of isolations, which I understand though find needlessly cute, then wouldn't thru-wraps be a subsection of isolations as well?

Isn't a thru-wrap just a one-poied hyperloop?

So shouldn't it read "Isolations (Including hyperloops and Thru-wraps)"

[Patiently awaits totally confusing explanation as to why I'm wrong]


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:Quote:
whats an example of a jedi move?


These are not the moves you're looking for... umm


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Oh wait... you did... My bad.

So a hyperloop is a subsection of an isolation and also a subsection of a thru wrap whereas an airwrap is only a subsection of a thru wrap.

I get it. I knew I was wrong. I always am. Even right now. confused


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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:ah, its all one big happy family really

and who the uncle is and who the daughter is just depends on your point of view...

eek


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Hey Glass, I'll try not to ask too many questions but can you explain what you mean by "split time" as a family vs. as a way of spinning. I understand it much better as a way of spinning. What is of the split time family that is not a subsection of any of the other families?

PM or Here would be lovely and I'd be your best friend for an hour.

kiss


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Yes, let's go.
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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:by jove I think you've got it NYC.
Cole and rob I edited for ya

reels: old clubswining definition. for the first wall plane move i ever teach beginners. see jillings. its the family that included my favorite po move.

Jedi moves: the one that isn't logical: defined as stuff that I and almost nobody really understand fully and is concepts that are really really hard. members don't tend to stay in here for more than a year or 2, because, as more people learn them they become far easier to learn (somone type global conciousness in here,) because as we gain understanding we learn how to teach it, and because we get to see it IRL and in videos rather than just in our heads. so it used to be that 5bt btb weave was jedi, now its just very difficult. Part of the reason that it exisst is that its often not completlt clear where now concepts are going to fit in when they are finally fleshed out, so it kindof existed as a holding group when I made the list for stuff that is really hard and we don't fully understand and haven't got solid. by the time it becomes mainstream nobody really thinks its Jedi anymore.




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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:thanks ubblol

and i guess this thread is a fabulous answer to the pm i sent you aages ago too hug
esp. the edit for coleman....

and the concept of 'jedi' as a holding set is truly brilliant. smile hopefully this means noone will be aspiring to be jedi no more, and will just get on with being as good at what they choose to learn as they can be.

lovenhugs
R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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MillenniuM
MillenniuM

Hyperloops suck

Member Since: 10th Jul 2003
Total posts: 595
Posted:Glass, you're bloody crazy... I randomly mention someone should list families of moves, and you list families and subsets?!

By the way, in 10 years, we're going to be doing some stuff so bloody impossible we'll need to use the taxonomy naming system... Kingdom Phylum etc. etc. all the way down to Genus, Species. Yummy smile


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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:One addition?

Legality
Legal Moves
Illegal moves

wink

And call me a newbie but can you direct me towards the definition of a spider?


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MillenniuM
MillenniuM

Hyperloops suck

Member Since: 10th Jul 2003
Total posts: 595
Posted:spider
n.

1. Any of numerous arachnids of the order Araneae, having a body divided into a cephalothorax bearing eight legs, two poison fangs, and two feelers and an unsegmented abdomen bearing several spinnerets that produce the silk used to make nests, cocoons, or webs for trapping insects.


In other words I have no idea... sounds like a flower variation to me.


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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:damn you to hell yanky. hug
I'm gonna make you pay for that... check your PM's.
ok I'll stop pretending that i didn't skip one when I transcribed it,
maybe that was my subconcious trying to help the world eek

spider= follow time, spin in follow time anywhere, you can think of it as one move (arashi classification) or as a family (ww cross follow etc traditional club swinging classification) and as a way of spinning.
It becomes a game to extend your spider, add btb, add wall plane, add long arm etc etc. follow this logic for a month or two and it'll take you somewhere interesting. ubbidea :LOL:


biggrin


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oli
not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...
Member Since: 24th Jul 2003
Total posts: 2052
Posted:biggrin

this is cool. i love reading stuff like this that i understand very little of.

i think i need to know afew things though.

as i looked at things before i read this, i thought you could have 'split time' or 'in time' (or quarter time if your feeling crazy).

and now i read up there ^ you can have follow time, and clock time. im not sure what these could be ?

iwould love it if someone wants to explain that to me. peace


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Quote:
damn you to hell yanky. hug
I'm gonna make you pay for that... check your PM's.
ok I'll stop pretending that i didn't skip one when I transcribed it,
maybe that was my subconcious trying to help the world eek

spider= follow time, spin in follow time anywhere, you can think of it as one move (arashi classification) or as a family (ww cross follow etc traditional club swinging classification) and as a way of spinning.
It becomes a game to extend your spider, add btb, add wall plane, add long arm etc etc. follow this logic for a month or two and it'll take you somewhere interesting. ubbidea :LOL:



Hrmm... still have no idea what the heck you're talking about. Maybe I have no idea how it's not something else. What's a spider that's not a cross follow? And "follow time" is confusing me. If I take my arms and put one in front of me and one to my right side (so 90 degree horizontal angle), and then I spin around like a pretty ballerina, am I doing follow time and therefore a spider?

Confused but comfortable with not being jedi.

kiss


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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tiamat_22580
tiamat_22580

I will kill all mods
Location: mods suck
Member Since: 7th Aug 2002
Total posts: 210
Posted:this should be a stickie

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:hug hug

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:Thats very nice dude smile

now can we have a version of twirling site swap?

Josh


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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mech
mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"
Member Since: 9th Jun 2003
Total posts: 6207
Posted:right, a lil confused, but i think i get it, wow an early morning and im understanding stuff, i may even do some work soon!

as for jedi moves, can i just do my "jaba the hut" move, and be fat, lazy and not do much? Works better for me, and ill teach anyone who cares.

Surly thought any move is jedi dependent on skill level, this is the part i am stuck on who decides they are jedi (this is not meant as an attack on anyone) is it like a group cencous? because to do the 5btw is still jedi to me, esp when done in combos, and breaking palnes smothly, ie going into buzzsaw from any move well, is jedi...

this is just me now, but as the topic has been raised, im voicing my question.

But yeah, thats how i always imagined moves to be grouped, and i am tryinging to work my way up, but more worring about getting smoothness that tech down at the mo, cos im lazy, and dont like change

*shakes hand at change*

biggrin

laterdays guys hug


Step (el-nombrie)

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:Quote:
who decides they are jedi?





You have to send a self addressed envelope and a 5 postal order to:



Yoda,

Yoda's Shack,

The Swamp,

Dagobah,

A Galaxy Far Far Away



and he sends you back your jedi certificate.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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mech
mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"
Member Since: 9th Jun 2003
Total posts: 6207
Posted:Quote:
Quote:
who decides they are jedi?



You have to send an self addressed envelope and a 5 postal order to:

Yoda,
Yoda's Shack,
The Swamp,
Dagobah,
A Galaxy Far Far Away

and he sends you back your jedi certificate.



i did this but it came back from a guy called luke, saying

"sorry for some bizzar reason hes vanished, i tyhink i used to much daz on his robe, and he was washed away!"


Step (el-nombrie)

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:I forgot to say ...

THANKS GLASS!

Excellent post my buddy. I've already printed it out for reread if I'm stuck on a subway... er I mean ... underground. kiss


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Great stuff Glass, thanks for sharing. Have a ball wink
I think the list is a great for discussion, but I kinda have a different system; I expect we all do (have different systems that is).

I only have two families: same direction and opposite direction. I try and differentiate my timing (ie. split/follow/same) from my moves (ie. butterfly/weave/waist wraps etc.). I wouldnt include butterflies in Ways of Spinning for example, because u can have same-time or split time b/f.

Do u use split-shifts and follow-shifts??

Cheers and tight planes beerchug




If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:umm i edited for ya stone, in ways of spinning butterfly is short for butterfly time, so the first 4 now look like the same basic 2 times split or parrallel and 2 directions same or opposite.

so you can take any move and try it in any "way of spinning", or take any more and see what happens if you try to marry it into another family, etc etc

"split-shifts and follow-shifts?? "
I dont know, define please.



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MillenniuM
MillenniuM

Hyperloops suck

Member Since: 10th Jul 2003
Total posts: 595
Posted:What's the difference between split time and follow time? Can you give a clear definition of each? (You being anyone that knolws smile )

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:Millenium:
follow timed backward circles
split timed backward circles

smile

Split-shift and folow-shift being when you switch timing from one to the other, perhaps?
but then which is which???
confused


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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oli
not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...
Member Since: 24th Jul 2003
Total posts: 2052
Posted:follow time is what i thought parallel time was confused

if thats follow time up there.

whats parallel time?


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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