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Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > You can go to the ball.....

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Glåss
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:edit- now with descriptions - Of one characteristic member of each family.some families have 60-100+ members.

and over simplified definitions of ways of spinning and of fundamentals, you should get the idea



In reverse order:

Moves:

as if I'm going to write out a list



up one level to:

Families:

CROSS FOLLOW - weaves and variations

BUTTERFLIES - see hop lesson for a simple butterfly ( a butterfly is still a fly.)

WAIST WRAPS - oldskool clubswinging term, for me the carry defines the wastwrap. lush vaiations btb and butterfly

STARTS - play

STOPS [inc. stop wraps]

REELS - Reel (simpelist butterfly reel) = low wave or mexican wave + a lot of variations

oldskool clubswinging term. Look it up in schatz, watch the gandini clubswinging dvd. ailing that you can be pretty sure that if its wall plane and you have a poi on each side of your body than its a reel variation.

PARTIAL ARCS - incomplete circles in lots of different ways eg pendulums

JEDI MOVES - the one that isn't logical: defined as stuff that I and almost nobody really understand fully and is concepts that are really really hard. members don't tend to stay in here for more than a year or 2, because, as more people learn them they become far easier to learn (somone type global conciousness in here,) because as we gain understanding we learn how to teach it, and because we get to see it IRL and in videos rather than just in our heads. so it used to be that 5bt btb weave was jedi, now its just very difficult. Part of the reason that it exisst is that its often not completlt clear where now concepts are going to fit in when they are finally fleshed out, so it kindof existed as a holding group when I made the list for stuff that is really hard and we don't fully understand and haven't got solid. by the time it becomes mainstream nobody really thinks its Jedi anymore.

ISOLATIONS and taking the weight off - see below, buzzsaw isolation was one of the first also known as illusion

THROWS - toss juggling poi

THROUGH WRAPS

TANGLES - inc hyperloops and airwraps

BIG CIRCLE LITTLE CIRLCE - see below

SEPARATE [independent] - disconnect your arms and have 2 brains

BUZZSAWS / INSIDE - spin a wheel with short poi follow time

SPIDER - follow time, spin in follow time anywhere, you can think of it as one move (arashi classification) or as a family (ww cross follow etc traditional club swinging classification) and as a way of spinning. It becomes a game to extend your spider, add btb, add wall plane, add long arm etc etc. )then go do a split time spider then butterfly, then parallel etc)

BODY TURNS

ILLIGAL MOVES [ edit: wink ]

FOUNTAINS and FLOWERS - edit oops forgot this sub family of cross follow. flowers are very simmilar to fountains if you reverse the major circle

There are more or less depending on your breakdown smile



up one level to

Ways of Spinning:

FOLLOW TIME: same direction 180 apart. like you do in cross follow or 3 bt weave.poi point in opposite directions

PARALLEL TIME: same direction and parallel, , its the simplest time to understand

BUTTERFLY TIME: opposite direction crossing at top and bottom

SPLIT TIME: opposite direction crossing at sides. same rhythm as follow time but poi travelling on opposite direction so they cross at 3 oclock and 9 oclock

QUARTER TIME (ugh) poi at 90 degrees

2:1 // 3:1 // 3:2 // X:Y // X:1 - one poi completing one revolution everytime the other one does two? and so on and so on.

CLOCK TIME- jedi at the moment, so I won't describe. variation on x:y and specically playing with 5:4 big circle little circle wall plane

BIG CIRCLE / LITTLE CIRCLE - combine long arm with normal circles or isolations - play with circle size eg

flowers

VERTICAL

HORIZONTAL

INCLINED

DIFFERENT PLANES - ATOMS (poi spinning on different planes) - OTHERS non atom

eg - vertical and horizontal - one poi on each

TRINITY



up one more level to

The Fundamentals:

BASIC CIRCLES - Shoulder centre (long arm rotation - watch pk or jo derry do it cleanly very hard to do well)

- Elbow centre

- hand centre (normal spinning)

- mid string centre (isolation see below much difficult)

body turns - (move yo' ass)

HANGS AND STILLS (and gilligans) - po hanging straight down post modernist poi swinging

PULL THRU's - when the poi climbs up to 10 oclock tug so it flys acrros to 2 oclock and chops off the top of the circle etc

CRITICAL MOMENTUM: when near the top of the revolution, the speed of the po at the top of the arc falls below a certain speed (aside: it think its about 2m/s or 6 ft/sec for the old timers and yanks if your hand is stationary but i wouldn't trust the math i do late at night and your hand isn't stationary )...

where was I, ok, below a certain speed at the top the tension falls to zero. and the po falls off the circle for about a quarter to a third of a circle, but still completes the loop around the hand.

Ideal for drunken master style. very difficult to have any plane control or timing, but thats just more drunk, very nice feeling at the po fall over your hands plop plop plop. much easier if you don't try. mostly poi ntless

THROWS & RELEASES - letting go

CONTACT MOVES - po head or string in contact with some part of the body and still moving

ISOLATIONS - difficult analogous in many ways to club swinging snakes. the po rotates about a point in the middle of the string. powered isolations - rotate about a point between centre and head. lame/lazy or bad isolations rotate about a point between handle and midpoint of string.

WRAPS - po wraps around part of your body and unwraps again recoil or stop wraps- bounce off and come out in reverse. thru wraps unwrap because you moved the limb they are wrapping round to the other side of your body

SPIRAL - play with spirals

CONSTRUCT/helix - this is super dark, and I'm not going to explain it here, its the most complex concept in poi that I have ever understood. I can now explain it. but expect your brain to cook. id saw its utterly jedi to even form a mental picture the concept in space. biggrin



EDIT:

also if you want to get serious about terminology - get a copy of schatz (I've lost my copy, have i leant it to you??)

gillings can be very useful, but not all of it is correct (fountain is counted wrong, and very difficult to under stand in places, but http://www.semlyen.net/cosmosjugglers/lib/contents.htm.
br>
__________________________________________

It isn't complete. They're my definitions, in my list of moves. (And if you're using expressions like families / hyperloops / isolations / and about 1/4 of the terms up there you're using words defined for poi in my list)



before you get really confused, most moves live in more than one family, and most moves have cousins in every other family. (if you want to develope your spinning, take any move and transcribe it to another family, or to another way of spinning.... eg take a weave, put it in split time get a split time butterfly weave).

one last thing: my recommendation is that you don't put your effort into try to work out what other people have done, don't waste your effort trying to disentangle badly described poi words. use them mearly as inspiration, its far more rewarding to explore the teritory for yourself, and to define perfection in poi for yourself, and to always aim and strive for that point.

\end technical nerdy poi spinning mode



I wish you all clean planes and down right dirty dancing

Drew

biggrin


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bluecat


bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere

Total posts: 5300
Posted:incidentally:
Quote:
quarter time (ugh)



is nice in cross isolations.

not yet found a (beautiful) use for it other than that......


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4991
Posted:hug << you need one of those drew.

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Glåss
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:"time" is shorthand for "time and direction":
FOLLOW TIME: same direction 180 apart. like you do in cross follow or 3 bt weave.po point in opposite directions
PARALLEL TIME: same direction and parallel, , its the simplest time to understand
BUTTERFLY TIME: opposite direction crossing at top and bottom
SPLIT TIME: opposite direction crossing at sides. same rhythm as follow time but po travelling on opposite direction so they cross at 3 oclock and 9 oclock

Monkey, you can only miss a target by 180 degrees but its cool that your trying to help smile thanks

CRITICAL MOMENTUM: when near the top of the revolution, the speed of the po at the top of the arc falls below a certain speed (aside: it think its about 2m/s or 6 ft/sec for the old timers and yanks if your hand is stationary but i wouldn't trust the math i do late at night and your hand isn't stationary )...
where was I, ok, below a certain speed at the top the tension falls to zero. and the po falls off the circle for about a quarter to a third of a circle, but still completes the loop around the hand.
Ideal for drunken master style
very difficult to have any plane control or timing, but thats just more drunk, very nice feeling at the po fall over your hands plop plop plop
much easier if you don't try
mostly poi ntless
not possible with clubs
biggrin


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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:
Its funny how technical base of Poi can be summarize in such "less words", nice one smile (I have some too:) wave


POI THEO(R)IST

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Interesting stuff Glass, and just a few quick comments as I need to study this stuff for a few days. I also hope to have a permanent connection soon.

Split-shift, Ill look it up as I always get confused with this same-time/alternating time stuff. But, I think its just a term for the shift when you go from a parallel to alternating time; ditto follow-time.

As a general comment, I dont think it is a good idea to use alternating time and parallel time as synonyms for split and same time. A favourite move is the alternating, split-time butterfly.

Its probably a mistake, but I read somewhere that follow-time is 90 degrees apart. I often wonder how many poiers spin exactly 180 degrees apart, especially when they are spinning really, really, fast.

I had never heard of butterfly-time, but it makes sense; I just call it a bound.
What about double time?

Simian, that backwards swing is in same-time wink


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Frodo
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Frodo

old hand
Location: In a van

Total posts: 1092
Posted:Im so confused!! i cant get any of it!!

i guess thats down to the fact that im a student! wink

does someone wanna come and live with me for a month and explain it all...

infact if i print off the list, and come to london is there anyone willing to go through it!? ubbloco


passing through, this world still lives.

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Quote:
"time" is shorthand for "time and direction":
FOLLOW TIME: same direction 180 apart. like you do in cross follow or 3 bt weave.po point in opposite directions
PARALLEL TIME: same direction and parallel, , its the simplest time to understand
BUTTERFLY TIME: opposite direction crossing at top and bottom
SPLIT TIME: opposite direction crossing at sides. same rhythm as follow time but po travelling on opposite direction so they cross at 3 oclock and 9 oclock




I'd always just used "in time" (for both paralel and butterfly time) and "split time" (for both split-time and follow time)...which I think I got from the basic HoP lessons... so thanks for explaining your definitions Mr. Glassy. They're certainly useful once you get into more complex moves.

Though I do think it's wierd if you simply spin both poi forward in what HoP and I would call 'split time' and you would call 'follow time'... because if you're just spinning them forward, they're not following anything.

But it makes sense in the context of moves.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:Quote:
Quote:
"time" is shorthand for "time and direction":
FOLLOW TIME: same direction 180 apart. like you do in cross follow or 3 bt weave.po point in opposite directions
PARALLEL TIME: same direction and parallel, , its the simplest time to understand
BUTTERFLY TIME: opposite direction crossing at top and bottom
SPLIT TIME: opposite direction crossing at sides. same rhythm as follow time but po travelling on opposite direction so they cross at 3 oclock and 9 oclock




I'd always just used "in time" (for both paralel and butterfly time) and "split time" (for both split-time and follow time)...which I think I got from the basic HoP lessons... so thanks for explaining your definitions Mr. Glassy. They're certainly useful once you get into more complex moves.

Though I do think it's wierd if you simply spin both poi forward in what HoP and I would call 'split time' and you would call 'follow time'... because if you're just spinning them forward, they're not following anything.

But it makes sense in the context of moves.



i second that
wave


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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ugoAgogo
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

ugoAgogo

member
Location: Brighton / Canterbury

Total posts: 112
Posted:TEChnical POI~IOP zzzppp baa rrrriipppp zzzz wzzxchsdjksdjk mal#func~tion
is"o2l"ation re&*ver)serd pop ting


ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. . . . . . . . . . . . . ZAP

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:Quote:
Monkey, you can only miss a target by 180 degrees but its cool that your trying to help smile thanks



DOH! spank

always getting follow and parallel confused...

and split = opposite direction is totally brand new on me eek

never mind eh... u live & learn then u drink 2 forget beerchug ubbangel


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Glåss
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:stone wrote:
>...alternating, split-time butterfly.
is this a split time thread the needle

>What about double time?
define what is double time??

That lovely yank wrote:
>Though I do think it's wierd if you simply spin both poi forward in what HoP and I would call 'split time' and you >would call 'follow time'... because if you're just spinning them forward, they're not following anything.

Doh. One poi is following the other one - they are following each other.
It comes from the very oldskool. when the first move you would learn was cross follow (short for cross and follow- your-hand-goes-across-and-then-the-other-poi-follows) so everyone knew an association of the word FOLLOW with spinning like that.
[for the newbies: cross follow its the same as the incredibly wrongly titled 3 beat weave ]

Split time i use a short for "split-time-in-the-opposite-direction". but then if you use "follow time" instead of
"split-time-in-the-same-direction" then split time is always in the opposite direction so pretty soon I stopped saying " ...in opposite direction."
(mind you for 2 years I called it (Split in Opp Direction) Judith time - so if you want to be completely unambiguous - call it that, and I'll know what exactly your talking about, unless your name is judith, and your not that particular oldskool poiswinginggod judith in which case you will be confused)

HOP lessons only mention "equal timing" and "split timing"



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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Uh oh... here we go again with the panzyass Brittish Beat Bashing Brigade again.

1) There's nothing wrong with the term '3 beat weave'. Don't make me smack you. It's a weave. It has 3 beats. If you want to argue that there's no such thing as beats or no such thing as a weave then you can argue away the validity of any named move. Any confusion with 'beats' or 'circles' has nothing to do with a 3 beat weave. If it helps people learn, it's valid.

2) Are you calling this move here a follow time move? http://www.homeofpoi.com/teach5.htm
Cuz I don't see those poi following each other. In fact, they're not even on the same side of the body ever. I'll agree that it's "follow-time" if you agree that they're not actually following each other. ubbangel

3) I didn't really need a #3. I just had momentum. Didn't want to only stop with 2.

Jump, Jive, and Wail. kiss


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Glåss
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:ok just did a massive re-edit on the first post to include simplified definitions of everything.
and I'd forgotten a sub family. doh

Sorry that its not formatted easilly to read, maybe i should poke the webmaster until he does a html version.
he's a bit tired today,so I'll leave him for a bit.

don't get hooked up on the definitions, they dont matter,
its the quality of the spinning that matters ubbidea ubbangel
and the concepts and ideas that matter smile cool

word up
drew

ps Rob: I Look forward to reading your defs when thy're ready.


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bluecat


bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere

Total posts: 5300
Posted:cool.

makes much more sense now. before, some of it i thnik made sense only to people that know you ; but now its more accesable for the world and his poi-spinning dog. biggrin hug


mine'll be a while yet; unless you want it in stages.....
an eventually will be pages and pages(cause right down at the bottom i'm putting in felinnotation(hands only) and move tables....)

but a first copy should be learning to walk in a week or so....

smiles
R



Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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Mr_Jedly
GOLD Member since Jan 2004

Mr_Jedly

member
Location: Perth, West Australia

Total posts: 195
Posted:awesome... been looking for something like this for ages. Hopefully everyone can come to some sort of agreement on names for moves so less confusion!

Keep up the good work! beerchug


We don't stop playing because we grow old,
We grow old because we stop playing.

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:I like the edit very much. At some point I should probably learn to DO all of those things... but for now, a basic vague understanding will have to do.

Except the whole "Jedi moves" definition is wack. You should just call it "Stuff I don't feel like arguing about right now"... biggrin

Well done as always.

Now go find some women. wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:yo,

not bad, although ive tried applying the same system of classification to a few things and it works every time (try sex for fun wink )

one point, waistwraps, you say its all about the carry, without defining the carry, and if it is about carries, then shouldent it just be 'carries' instead of waistwraps, which i would class as a 'move' anyway.

T hug wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Mr_Jedly
GOLD Member since Jan 2004

Mr_Jedly

member
Location: Perth, West Australia

Total posts: 195
Posted:I have a problem with the Jedi moves... I just learnt how to do the 5bt weave btb, and NOW IT ISN'T JEDI ANYMORE!!! mad mad mad mad mad
i was so proud that i could do a jedi move, but i realised now i can't. ubbcrying


We don't stop playing because we grow old,
We grow old because we stop playing.

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Great job Glass. I enjoyed reading your List of Moves.

As a suggestion, that probably comes under the sub-sub-heading wink of "most moves have cousins in every other family" I reckon that if you put Waist Wraps, Cross Follows, Fountains (wot fountains?) and Flowers in the Cross-Follow family (or the Weave family) you could reduce the clutter. You could also consider Reels as a sub-family of Butterflies, if you wanted to. In Ways of Spinning, you could add Alternating time, and all that comes after Critical Momentum.

What I call the alternating, split-time butterfly (and I could be wrong) is a hand together type move, but you could weave it. Similar to that Bobby Butterfly Thing in Jo Derry's clip.

Cheers for down right dirty dancing, and breaking all them planes weavesmiley


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:So what about butterfly waist wraps, butterfly weave fountains or alternate direction flowers? Heck, flowers don't do any "crossing" either really.

And what about same-direction reels?


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:ok... so I've avoided this post like the plague.. but inevitably keep getting refer'd back here when I try to find this helix stuff.. I know you don't feel like explaining it here, perhaps in a pm.. perhaps for a cookie... or perhaps just a short little animated clip dubbed "this crazy nonsense that I don't want to explain" or perhaps a link dubbed, "Rev, you punk, stop letting your poi think for you and go here"

or you could just do it in a 3-5 page essay, but I hate essays.. I'm sure you hate essays.. I'm sure we all hate essays.. or maybe just I hate essays..


I'm going back to bed..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:Dont beat yourself up Rev, I dont think it actually exists.



the idea (and this is in the vauge hope hes gonna come and tell me im wrong) is kinda v-shaped planes (well, more like / shaped plane) being pulled sideways through space, its sort of semi isolated and it makes the poi form a spiral as they transition from left to right. do this in follow time and you get a helix, the double spiral. the reason i dont think it exists is that you can only make one transition (outside to invert) with the poi keeping the /, on the next transition the / flips to \ (hence making a V).



The other eveidence i have for this not existing is the fack the hes been on it for nearly a year now and its still jedi.



T wave



edit actually having played around some more it is possible to come out the other side keeping the / is just damm hard.



( ubblol )

EDITED_BY: [Nx?] (1079895769)


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Glåss
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:I'd recomend that you ignore Nx's post on the grounds that it won't help you.
he's only seen fragments of it, more than most, but everyones seen some of it.
So far I've never managed to explain it in less than an hour, using drawings, models and po/clubswining.
but I can explain all that i understand of it, and I will ...in due course
In the mean time i also recommend that you don't even worry about it, and don't speculate on it. but do get very very very tight plane control, solid long arm spins and middle of the string isolations
The construct took me a year just to build the theory of it. that theory is what finally allowed me put down my poi, at least for the forseeable future. You know more parts of it than you think, but nothing to help get the jigsaw puzzle to make sense.
I wont teach the move until i can convey the philosopy
Follow the path of your own po
80808080


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:oh well, unhelpfull is better than wrong i suppose wink spank

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:spiralx, I think some confusion comes from my assumptions regarding traditional "old skool" moves, and I tend to classify moves as same direction or opposite direction. For example, waist wraps are an "old skool" move, so my first assumption is that they are a same direction move. Sure you can have butterfly waist wraps, but the name u used defines the move ie. butterfly waist wrap. This indicates an opposite direction move, does it not?



If u are you asking me, about my classification of your examples, then:

"So what about butterfly waist wraps?" Butterfly, opp direction move.

"Butterfly weave fountains?" Butterfly, opp direction move. Is there a description of the butterfly weave fountain at HOP?



Flowers, reels and same-direction reels. Reels are an "old skool"move that generally denotes alternating, opposite direction moves. They don't usually cross, so would not consider them to be a butterfly.



The term Flowers is not one I use, but from what I've seen recently, they are (or were originally) a same direction move, done in side-plane, and are comprised of big and little circles. I'm told people also call them Fowers when they do em in opposite direction. Perhaps that's one for the "boffins" to sort out. I'd probably call them reels if they were an opposite direction move. Actually, my own private name for these is Inter-Planetary-Gears smile



Flowers don't do any "crossing" either really. What's your point about crossing?



(((Incidentally, I learnt and call all the same-direction waist wraps, fountains. And while I use that term in private, I call them waist wraps at HOP, to reduce confusion))).



Does that help ????? If not, then refer all further correspondence to Dr Glass wink


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3289
Posted:*Remembers a day on Clapham Common with Glass, spent with much headscratching and clubs laid out in weird repeating V shapes on the grass*

Still dont get it - unless I do and I dont know it smile

I still think that the most jedi concept is that of Schrodingers Poi.

ie your perception of the poi alters the state of the Poi, etc.




--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Getting back to questions on the double movement and double-time. Now this is real "old skool"; wall-plane stuff, and best viewed in the sub-category of "Not Necessarily That Important".

So, for opposite direction moves like the butterfly, you are doing a double movement when both poi are swung together. For example, double behind the shoulder circles (left and right are doing shoulder circles at the same time), then down to double lower fronts (left and right hands doing lower front circles together). With double-time, I think you just do 2 circles, like two in a set together, two upper fronts with each hand.

The partner (for want of a better word) of a double movement is an alternating movement. The reel is an example of an alternating movement. With the reel you do a right shoulder circle (behind the shoulder) and a left long arm circle simultaneously, and right long arm circle and left shoulder circle simultaneously. Alternation can also include up and down movement, as with the travelling moves. There are lots of ways to change from an alternating movement to double movement. You can for example, do two shoulder circles with left, while the right does a long arm and shoulder circle.

I associate the parallel and follow movements with same direction (weave) type moves, and also the split-shift and follow-shift. For example, you are swinging parallel lower front and lower back circles. If from the lower front circles, the right does a lower back circle, the left a lower front, the right lower front, left lower back, you get the shift or split. From there u can move into waist circles like the "lower back waist circle, arm over the back" for fountains, and other anachronistic stuff . Was ne of that useful ??? confused

Would the inclusion of a section on "transitions" be useful?


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:i reckun: transition is just a word that means "the bit inbetween".

Sometimes it's instantaneous (a point common to two moves where poi position, poi momentum, and arm position are common. ie: there is a point in backwards weave that is identical to a point in forwards weave. There is no particular 'transition' movement between them.

Sometimes its a couple of carries, or a carry and a circle, or whatever little fudging of timing that you require.

its all pretty arbitrary what you consider 'move' and what you consider 'transition'.
i could do a butterfly, jump around swinging patterns for half an hour, then do a reverse butterfly, and claim all the stuff inbetween butterflies was merely a transition.

Stone: alternating & double! thats the terms i was wanting for describing double staff! Was getting really confused mixing it up with follow and parallel time.

Godammit, follow and parallel are rubbish terms. What are terms for those timings irrespective of same\opposite direction?

split time and... same time? umm

Helixes: sound like trinity non-contact airwraps to me ubblol

and Glass is sounding very Johnathan Livingstone Seagull, he'll be making his patterns change state instantaneously soon, without all this timewasting circles rubbish. i reckon the real reason he only spins theoretical poi now is cos they're even easier than socks... ubbtickled


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:yo,

ubblol and hug for the monkey.

stone, I get ya, but its confusing.

transitions. when i say transitions i mean a change of plane. i.e. a weave does three circles on the left ouside wheel plane then 'transitions' to the right outside wheel plane for 3 circles. Transitions hapen at the bottom of the circle for forwards and at the top of the circle for backwards. Carries have two transitions, top and bottom.

t wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:that's it.. I'm finishing grad shcool.. getting my phd.. and moving to the uk... I'm sick of being out the friggin loop.. the thought of how much I could actually learn from someone or eve njust having people to spin with on a regular basis just blows my mind..

More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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