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Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Member Since: 27th Mar 2003
Total posts: 2109
Posted:So Ive been thinking about some names of poi moves and came to some conclusions.

First off, there is the discrepency between hyperloops and air wraps. I propse that all moves currently known as hyperloops or air wraps be labled air wraps. There are then two types of air wraps. Static air wraps and dynamic air wraps. Static are the ones that stay in one spot in relation to your body and dynamic are the ones that move around your body (eg. air wrap buzzsaw).

Now, this leaves us with a spare term that fits perfectly with a type of move that previously had no name to my knowledge. The word hyperloop means "loop inside a loop" so I thought it was the best name for moves where one poi spins normally while the other spins extended. The effect of such moves look like a small circle inside a large one... Sounds like a hyperloop to me. Considering there is a whole family of moves in this category, I feel it deserves a proper name.

Then there are flowers. Ive been told that a flower is any multi-beat rotating seperation but I dont agree with that. To me, flowers are any 4+ beat seperation done on both sides of the body at once which makes sense because they look like flowers and have their own full family of variation.

Now, Ive seen another move which is done from a weave where there are 3 beat rotating seperations on one side of the body then turned and repeated on the other side giving an illusion of a flower. I dont like calling these flowers though because they're quite different from real ones and have their own set of limitations. Therefore, I have dubbed them "clovers" since they're a 3 beat seperation.

Now, before you flame me for trying to give names to poi moves, just consider it. These changes/names are pretty reasonable and make sense. Im also kinda anal about this stuff and like having accurate names for moves.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.



Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5687
Posted:Hmm - there are many people who would argue there's a difference between hyerploops and airwraps which nessitate a different name. "Hyper" referring to the extra speed of the poi heads as they are tangle and spin - airwraps just being a through wrap on the string/chain.

What you would like to call Hyperloops are (i believe) currently nameless but have been discussed in musical terms as 3 over 4, 2 over 4 etc - i.e. where one poi does x amount of spins to y amount of the others. Regarless of whether one is giant/extended or not.

Flowers - Extended seperations - regardless of beats, they look like flowers! Whether they have 4,6,8, 9.5 "petals". Why confuse matters?

To be honest the terms have been around too long on HoP to be able to be changed - and outside of HoP no-one really will know what we're talking about anyway smile

Erm, so personally I would say if it ain't broke - don't make unneccassary changes and confuse a lot of people wink

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


Hyperloops suck

Member Since: 10th Jul 2003
Total posts: 595
Posted:Changing names = too much like work. They function decently now, definitely good enough by my standards. I do think that we need a "List of families of moves" thread completely updated with all the good stuff... tangles, throws, isolations, flowers, gerbils...


The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:millenium you lucky little cinderella. I overslept and consiquently am going to grant you 1 wish.
ask for families, get something better... see other thread

Icon you could be mistaken for thinking that hyperloops and airwrap after all the confusion posted here. (but if you are working in a space where you define moves separately) then hyperloop (ugh i hate that term) and airwrap are different sub families of the same move. for the fundamental member of the Hloop sub-family, "a hyperloop" has an isolation in it and a carry, so that there ire 3 beats in the wrap - very analogous to cross follow/weave. this is much difficult- i don't have them clean all the time and I've almost never seen people doing it.
expect bluecat coleman arashi and poipoipoi to do these
and is very much easier if you take the isolation out and get 2 beats in the wrap so its closer to an airwrap - see colemans definition
and don't go look at the only online video of me trying to do them, thats embassingly bad, and isnt at all how they ended up.

Ok, there are a lot of good arguements for saying that airwraps and Hloops are the same thing, and definately there are blurred boundaries, as with any families (so as with any move you could define it as a deviation from either starting point a HL variation or an AW variation go with whatever feels right to you... rob defines everything from airwrap, thats how it feels for him, then thats right. cool. it means your start getting moves wich are called airwraps with carry or airwraps with isolation), but going back to my original definitions, and still having seen nearly everything that rob, coleman, richie and arashi do in the area. I still find for me, my original defintions hold the 2 separate, - in my yellow book. although those four have definately extented and helped me to tighten my definitions. thanks kiddies

yep, and what durbs said. and if you think the defs are confused, its because of a game of chinese wispers played on this forum. There exists very logical and watertight definitions for every....
/wakes out of a dream
what the **** am I doing here
we'll I hope those two posts have contributed something to the community smile

Drew biggrin
(before you ask, no I'm not spinning again, I've done about 1 hour of po and 1 of stick in the last 6 weeks)
rock back triple step triple step ubblove


Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:actually i started using the static\dynamic differentiation when i talked about tangles last night, quite unconsciously. It seems a much more self explanatory term for the difference between airwraps and hyperloops, that doesn't overstate the difference like the current names.

Good division, but you can never really replace terminology, only add to it smile

crikey, Glass is talking some good cleverness today...

he denies he's been doing poi, but i saw him doing some in his head the other day when he was pretending to concentrate on some clubs

and i'm sure he's been picking up a bit of extra swing from somewhere too... umm

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:I think I'll start misinforming everyone I teach as to the definition of all poi moves. Just to get back at Glass for being taller than me. biggrin

Did you know that isolations were invented in New York? By me? And they're actually called thread the needle. Yup, I just made that up. ubbangel

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523

Good division, but you can never really replace terminology, only add to it smile

that was part of the original definition
po in my 'ed huh. :LOL: not guilty ... i think
well at least i haven't got sore fingers from making kinetic sculptures abstracted from po concepts... i think
ow, it hurts to type smile

and another thing
is 1"love me or leave me" or sammy davis junior or the nina simone version
the best tune ever? ubblove
the ever in my head
georgio - tears? (remixed for organ doner)


Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:*not flaming*

as far as I understand there are 3 distinctions and they cover everything..

airwrap- this is basically like a tanlged buzzsaw turned sideways.. it enters and exits the same.. it does not do like a hyperloop.. which is a common misconception...

extended airwrap- when you hold the above for more then the 2 circles.. this is when you do things like moving the airwrap or spiraling the airwrap..

hyperloop- this is when yo mainpulate the tanlge so as to move it about different planes.. out to out, out to in to out, in to out to in, etc... basically all of those continutatiosn.. because the aiwraps always stay in an inverted plane (either moving into one or moving aways from one.. hyperloops dpo not stop in the inverted plane but rather travelabout the outer and inner planes... just think of the hyperloop as a manipulation of the tangle.. because that's basically what you do to get it where you want.. airwaps spin on their own and are moved as a whoel, hyperloops are more individually oriented since you can have one lead then have the other lead late, hence how you manipulate the tanlge..

edit: (copy'd from the other thread)

outer plane.. like the outer side plane outer wallplane.. that which is outside of us..

innerplane.. between the arms and the body NOT BETWEEN THE ARMS... do a butterfly in front and bounce it so that it comes up under your arms but in front of your body.. ta da inner plane...

inverted plane.. between the amrs.. i.e where the airwraps ends/or begins dependiong on direction...the airwrap works in the iverted wall plane, while buzzsaws are inverted side planes...

think of it like this.. you can take a weave in the wallplane and go from outer to inner plane and hyperloop it from outewr to inner plane which is different from taking and airwraping which goes from outer to inverted or inverted to outer..

I'll be in the hop chat room around 8pm est.. give or take a little.. if any of you can make it to discuss.. forums kinda make it hard to dicuss things well because of time lapses...

EDITED_BY: Rev (1078948434)

More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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