Forums > Social Chat > "ONE SOLDIER DEAD, 11 WOUNDED"

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Acid
member
Location: Israel
Member Since: 29th Jul 2001
Total posts: 110
Posted:Might be long...

Imagine one of those fridays when you're all worked up about going out.
Before dinner someone tells you that a soldier has been killed. As you live where this happens everyday (Israel) it just goes in one ear and out the other. Pretty freaky i guess. But as you learn the name of the soldier you realize it's not just another name to you. This person went to the same school as you. He went out with a one of your friends. He's only 19!!!!!!!
You fucking know his name!!!!! Even though it takes some time you do get it, you don't want to go out anymore and you understand that what's going on out there is real. Not some nightmare. Those kids being killed aren't anonymous anymore.
All this happened to me about 30 min' ago...
I can't even start trying to explain what all this is like, you wake up everyday with headlines such as "4 soldiers killed", "5 wounded".
I can't make any sense of this.
Why is this shit happening??!!!!

[ 07 April 2002, 04:19: Message edited by: Acid ]


life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans John Lennon

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Ok what I have to say is very well... mysided. This is my view and it in no way represents the view of any other person.

I do not see what is going on in Isrile and Palistine as a war! I see it more as a fuede between 2 step brothers. They both have been put in a situation that neither one can controle. They both dont like eachother and neither one really knows what the ROOT of the problem is. Enphisis on root.

In all honesty I dont know why Bush is even telling Isrial how to fight, other than political BS. Isrial has the worlds 3 best Airforce even when all the Arab countries were united they couldnt even touch Isrial!! If Arafrat wanted to end this fuede all he would have to do is go on TV and in Arabic and condem all actions that the suicide bombers and terrorest have done! He has yet to do that. He has said it in english, but the Arabic world doesnt really speek english now does theys?!?!

When it comes to war and whatever lets just say... let him who is blamless throw the first stone!

Is that saying that America could be wrong in what we are doing right now? Well in that case your damn right we are.

I really dont know what to say I really wish that America would stick our nose into this one and break it all up and make everything good. In reality I know that it cant happen, first off there isn't one polotician out there that would cut off his own head by doing that, also we would piss everyone off even more, weather or not we did any good. I really think that it is just a crappy situation and there is little the rest of the world can do. If the world sits back and does nothing then Palistine will be wiped off the face of the planet, I hope I am not sounding mean by this but its true. Isrial has more technology (sp)than Palistine. I think that if anyone steps then someone will get pissed and it is just a lose lose for everyone involved.

Ok in sumery... shity situation, if it is left at its own pace Isriale will win, the Palistinian Gov will be eradicated, the Palistinian people will contiue scuicide bombings and mass chaos will continue in the region untill the second comming, or whatever you believe.

I wrote alot of noncence didnt I?!?


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:There's this myth going round that everything Arafat says in Arabic isn't translated to English and vice versa. Somehow I really don't think that's the case and I don't think the arab nations have it broadcast or printed in english!

In the past Arafat has said in Arabic that attacks against Israel should stop, however he hasn't said it lately as currently Palestine sees itself as being at war with an invading country and so he's been telling people to defend themselves. Which you kinda have to understand and sympathise with. It currently is a war, even more so than the US 'war' against terror. In fact the Israel action is part of that war started by the US. Wouldn't you defend yourself from an invasion? Would you accept it if Bush said 'Al-Quaeda troops are marching through the US now. They'll be making a few of you homeless, those with homes you'll be under curfew, but please don't fight back.' I didn't think so.

America is involved because it has a responsibility to get involved. Admittedly it messes up every now and again, but it needs to keep at it. Another reason the US is involved: Oil. Again! The price of oil is rising due to this war and that scares a country so dependent upon oil. Thankfully the US has finally asked Sharon to stop, but unfortunately it's too little too late. All that anti-terrorist war stuff spouted by the US is exactly what Sharon needed to justify the invasion of Palestine.

You're right, if left at it's own pace other terrorist organisation will step in and help the Palestinian terrorist organisations. Maybe other Arab countries will send military aid or troops in eventually. Whatever it won't suddenly stop terrorist attacks against Israel.


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tau neutrino
member
Location: singapore
Member Since: 19th Oct 2001
Total posts: 35
Posted:I am of the belief that the state of Israel should exist. I am also of the belief that teh state of Palestine should exist.

Chicken and egg question. Are teh palestineians killing israelies because israel denies them their land. (According to teh UN The borders of Israel should be where there were in 1967). Or are teh israelis invading palestineian lands because of the suicide attacks.

Fact. the israeli army is one of teh best in the world. tanks helicopters missiles etc etc... The palestinians have guns and stine age weapons. I am not surprised their would blow themselves up. its the only weapon they have. it is morally and religiously wrong that they target civilians.

I look at the body count on both sides. Right now the for every isralei killed there have been 3 palestinians killed. I am talking of the latest uprising... in about a year and a half. yess.. That is teh surprising fact. I looke dit up in a number of news web sites. 900something palestinans and abou 300 something israelis. figures like that dont reflect well on the Israeli govt and army. (i said govt not the people of israel.)

I have to admit i dont like ariel sharon. why is it that war mongers are so popular and peace lovers get killed? Yes i am talking about Yitzhak Rabin.

No one should be getting killed. Israelis or palestinians.

To paraphrase Martin Luther King jr. "what does it matter to the dead whether they were killed in the name of justice or injustice?


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toneman
member

Member Since: 18th Oct 2001
Total posts: 195
Posted:my $.02

If you are Isreali and you're living in one of those settlements, then you are forwarding the message of "this is our land now" for the Isreali gov't. Most of the 'settlers' living there now have been PAID in some form or another to move there. If my company paid me to do something illegal and I did it, we're both criminals, not just the gov't. Maybe not a military pay roll, but a gov't payroll none the less.

If you move into a settlement. You're a criminal, but more so, you're just a damn fool.

What person can justify shooting people/ kids throwing stones?

How would americans feel if the gov't rounded up every male between 14 and 60 to get some terrorists? It's a crime and it's a shame.

The Isreali's have been breaking international law for decades, and no-one has had the nuts to say, "hey, you're wrong"
Why? Too much to lose. Oil Oil Oil. (let's go drill in the pristine arctic...)
The US is quick to use international law to justify military action.

This whole thing definitely upsets me. Neither side is innocent, but like Dom or bezerker said, the stronger side should stand down.

Another point: Who cares what ARAFAT says? If I were a palestinian and I heard Arafat say give up or let's call a truce, I would think that he's being tortured and should no longer be depended upon as a leader. Why should any of his people trust him now? He's in the enemies hands. If he stands fast, he'll keep his people's trust. Isreal believes they could quickly make a deal with some of his advisers that they would like to see in power, so they atttempt to push Arafat out, but it will just backfire.

Another point:
The "normalized" relations offer by Saudi & Co. is really a threat, and should be taken as such, and should be taken seriously. Arab leaders are finally saying "enough's enough". We offer peace, and if you don't accept it, you get the opposite.

I don't know who would win in that situation. I would give both factions a 50/50 chance. The Arabs have MUCH power in the form of OIL. What are we going to do, bomb their refineries?

anyhow....
I'll wonder off again.

Peace (and I mean it or I'll shoot)
tone


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Organized Kaos
member
Location: Thornhill, Ontario Canada
Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 238
Posted:I'd just like to keep this thread updated to say that last night 13 soldiers were ambushed and killed by terrorists
and there was another suicide bombing, this time on a bus in which eight people were killed and fourteen injured...
I better post this quick before I get frustrated and post my offensive, one-sided bias views against these poor 'persecuted' terrorists who believe that taking their life to kill others is a worthy cause...oops, I just did...

[ 11 April 2002, 09:47: Message edited by: Organized Kaos ]


Every morning I wake up and hit the ground yawning...

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Itsgottab
member
Location: NZ
Member Since: 7th Nov 2001
Total posts: 244
Posted:its funny how you call these people (the palestinies) terrorists, it seems from t.v. reports that theres a bunch of crazy guys in tanks terrorising whole communities and how long have they been doing that. when israil and the west take away every chance for a fair fight what else can you do, bend over and take it in the arse.

the world certainly is a werid place, but people bring things on them selves in most cases, and theres always that thing called karma, its about time the white people europeans/americans but mainly europeans cleanse themselves of the guilt about the big bad war. i mean if the west hadn't won the war with the thankful help of AMERICA possibly all the jews would be no more. really the white folks are the jews jesus christ so why don't they get down on their knees and worship us, its got me totally lost.

its time to say 'o.k. jew boy its time to settle down and if you don't you gonna have to bend over'


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Organized Kaos
member
Location: Thornhill, Ontario Canada
Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 238
Posted:I'll agree that without America the state of Israel probably wouldnt exist

But it's also kinda clear to me that you have no clue what the fuck youre talking about, and its also clear that youre not exactly the brightest peanut in the turd,,,so Im gonna choose to ignore your last comment.

Maybe if you had some feelings you'd realize that when your 19 year old cousin is busy fighting against Hizballah forces in the Galil, the same forces who killed thirteen Israeli soldiers in that area this morning, and you spent all day worrying and praying that Your 19 YEAR OLD cousin wasnt one of the dead. Or when you heard about the bomb you made a phone call to your sister whose only 18 to see if she was still alive. Or even when your best friend is joining the army in a few months and you realize you may lose him forever, then you'd understand what is happening and what we are feeling.

It's people like you who are blind to the situation and beleive that just because the Israelis are the ones in the tanks and not the palestinians, they are in the wrong. ISRAEL HAS SUCH A STRONG ARMY BECAUSE IF NOT THEY WOULD BE NO MORE!!!!!!! Your narciccisstic beleif has led to you thinking that you are THE whiteboy and all us little Jews should get on our knees and worship you.
OPEN YOUR EYES...

I apologize for saying all this again but that last comment really pissed the hell out of me...


Every morning I wake up and hit the ground yawning...

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Itsgottab
member
Location: NZ
Member Since: 7th Nov 2001
Total posts: 244
Posted:i do feel for your personal experience of this situation, but your nation is in the wrong and will again suffer the consequences of being unable to live along side other people. how long have you been fucking off your neighbours? 3500 years, and your calling me dumb.

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Organized Kaos
member
Location: Thornhill, Ontario Canada
Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 238
Posted:Alright man, I wasnt gonna post this until tomorrow morning, but now you leave me no choice.
After reading Itsgottabes post I got pretty frustrated and angry as you can probably tell from my reply, and I decided it was time for me to write post on this site, not out of anger and frustration, but in a well thought out post.

What Itsgottabe said actually proved my point better than I could have myself. The bias of the media is seen in itsgottabes way of thinking and his blindness that just because he saw Israeli tanks rolling through refugee camps that Israel was in the wrong after seeing the medias one-sidedness (as I admit I often am towards the Israelis whenever I get upset about the situation as to me, a Jew, Israel is my homeland) However, from the media all he sees is the Palestinian side.
Now Im not saying that the Israelis are right and the Palestinians wrong, I admit, the Israelis taking land from the Palestinians and driving them from their homes in 1948 is horribly wrong. But before you judge Israel for its actions, ask yourselves a few questions first.
Didnt America do the same thing to the Native Americans when America was colonized and founded as a country? Natives were killed, women raped and driven from their homes. But wait, how often do you hear about that on the news or hear the native side of things? And if you do, is anything done about it? Of course not!!! But you live in The land of the free so you shouldnt worry about the plight of the Native Americans.

Now let me ask you something else, if the natives started asking for their land back, would you give up your home for them?
What if they started a campaign to get their land back and began carrying out deadly suicide bombings across America? Of course judging by the Worlds reaction to September 11th they would consider it an atrocity. And America, well they would wipe out every remaining Native for their actions. And the world would simply stand by and watch, without comment except for a couple of thats horribles, a couple of anti-war threads and of course, the natives deserve what they are getting.

But Israel, who has done the same thing as America in driving out their natives, and is retaliating with even more restraint than Bush could ever do, is blamed by the world for their overuse of force against the poor Palestinians with nowhere to go.
But wait, take out a map, look at the middle east, look at Israel, The Arab have a vast series of countries, but Israel is a tiny insignificant speck of land, it takes 6 hours to drive from the top of Israel to the bottom. You could probably fit more than 100 Israels into these Arab countries. These Palestinians do have places to go, your natives do not.

How much land has America returned to these native-Americans? Barely any, while Israel has returned almost half of its insignificant speck. The Native-Americans welcome Americans onto their scarce soil. Any Israeli who steps onto Arab territory is risking his/her life.

Read my post through (I know its long) and answer my questions honestly and you will realize that any comment you make about Israels treatment of the Arabs is hypocritical. As America and any modern civilization has committed the same deeds as Israel when it comes to treatment of aboriginal people. However, you are the Home of the Brave while Israel is just The land of the Jews

And Itsgottabe, Us Jews will never simply Bend over and take it in the arse.

[ 11 April 2002, 14:00: Message edited by: Organized Kaos ]


Every morning I wake up and hit the ground yawning...

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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:You know, i'd like to ask one thing of you boys, and that's that we keep the peace here in HoP. I think some extremely offenisve comments have been made in the last few posts on both sides.

I think that people involved too closely prolly will get one-sided.... i don't know that they are justified, but i know that i would (and prolly will)do the same, because when someone you love is in danger you want them to be okay.

I just want you guys to please be civil and kind to each other on this board, because we need to have love somewhere in this world....


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Organized Kaos
member
Location: Thornhill, Ontario Canada
Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 238
Posted:Once again Kyrian, your words ring truth...
My posts were written out of anger for the comments against my religion saying that the white people should be the Jews Jesus christ, was pretty hurtful as you can imagine...
I decided to night when I posted my last post that all we are doingon this post is arguing back and forth out of frustration. instead of writing another anger-filled post, I decided to write my true feelings and expression of what I was trying tosay without the anger

To Itsgottabe: Our arguing and comments will do nothing but further our differences, so, as the wise Kyrian suggested, lets both keep the peace between eachother...


Every morning I wake up and hit the ground yawning...

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Itsgottab
member
Location: NZ
Member Since: 7th Nov 2001
Total posts: 244
Posted:i agree with your long post about the similarities between your country and america, the same also be applies to new zealand. in recent years these issues have been settled to a certain extent, land has been given back that was taken illegally as well as and cash and resoures. but there is still some bitter feelings and a feeling that justice still hasn't been done. its just a shame that things had to go that far to begin with.

as for your comments about the media begin one sided i think thats crap. sure we don't get the israilie perspective but nor do we get a palestinin's perspective, its a western international view. and at the other end of a t.v. set there are people with brains, who read books talk with other human begins, we sift anaylis and come to conclusions.

i agree peace is nice. one last thing if your not going to bend over and take it in the arse why should the palestinin's.

[ 11 April 2002, 19:29: Message edited by: itsgottab ]


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Acid
member
Location: Israel
Member Since: 29th Jul 2001
Total posts: 110
Posted:hey.
i haven't posted anything because i didn't feel i could say any more while keeping perspective.
Kaos- again i am behind you every word is pretty much what i feel as well. i just had a problem with the fact that you said what Israel has done is just like what America has done to the natives.
when it was decided that Israel should become a country it was decided because the jews (how i hate that word...) didn't have any-where to go-not even America. the reason that land has been taken from Arabs is, yes-war. the land was separated into regions. yes not everyone agreed but the war is what changed it. im not getting into who started the war but anyway... the land of Israel is the ONLY refuge for jews (again that hated word) . no matter how you look at it that is a fact. itsgottab- im very sorry you feel that way and i was even sad, but im not trying to change anyone and everyone's intitled (sp?) to his/her own opinion- just had to say something about it because i read that and i felt a lump in my thraot...
people you must realize that the reason as Kaos said for such an army is that Israel is in the middle of the arab countries. it's sad that that's the situation but Israel has a reason for defending herself. the thing with bending over- you really believe that? you think that's what's being asked of either nation? it's not about taking it in without complaints, i'll remind you that in the recent not soo recent though, peace talks arafat wanted more and more land and it got to the point where it was to hard for Israel to stay in them.
i agree with what was said about the settlements. they are wrong for living there. they are making the whole situation worse. some places like Hebron where not so many israelis live have so much army protection i have no idea why nothing is being done about that. um... ill review this and think what else to say.
Kaos, thanx for saying what i mean
Kyrian, you are very wise and i agree with 100%

peace and love to you all...


life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans John Lennon

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:hehehe. Kaos, a little advice. itsgottab is what is technically called a 'shit-stirrer'. He deliberately posts stuff to make you angry and upset so that you get all rattled and shout back, then he'll wind you up further. He's done it before, and he'll do it again. So best thing to do is ignore him.

The latest kills, on both sides, are always sad. 13 soldiers killed. Well, they're soldiers! They're fiting a war and in enemy territory and so they are going to be casualties. It's an accepted fact when you wear the uniform. Israel should stop moaning when it's soldiers are killed in war and if it doesn't like it they should withdraw.

As to the the suicide bombing, it's a bloody harsh demostration of that fact that, guess what, the war isn't working! You can shed blood, occupy lands, arrest 4000 people and still you won't stop the terrorists because you've created more.

As to these poor 'persecuted' terrorists I think you've missed the point. It's the poor persecuted normal citizens of Palestine we're worried about. They're the ones starving and dying.


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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:I dunno why but when the "shit stering" isn't done in my perverbial pool I find it kinda funny. Any who... Dom is right it is sad when anybody dies (depending on the side) but you take inherent risks when you are a soldier so Isriale shouldn't be upset. Their familys should, and the country should mourn the loss but they shouldn't make it that big of deal.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Organized Kaos
member
Location: Thornhill, Ontario Canada
Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 238
Posted:This is true, but its sad that these are just 18-19 year old boys who are being killed...The fact that my cousin is in the army, just makes it harder to accept...

I agree that no matter what the terrorism will continue, and I feel that this military operatin is useless and a waste of mioney, but it is the only method Sharon understanfds, and it is also the only method left
Every time a ceasefire is called it is broken by the sound of a bomb blast. Every time Peace talks are called Arafat walks away because he is not getting every little thing he wants...Violence is the only method left to attempt to stop the violence...


Every morning I wake up and hit the ground yawning...

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Itsgottab
member
Location: NZ
Member Since: 7th Nov 2001
Total posts: 244
Posted:dom you should read PHL9te's post on antiwar, sure i may some shit that will inflame a few sentitive types, but i beleive almost all of what i type here. just because i chose to speak to some people who have oppsite veiw pionts from me doesn't mean i should be ignored. its an attitude like that that is causeing the problems around us, you open minded freak

[ 12 April 2002, 17:02: Message edited by: itsgottab ]


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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:itsgottab, it's just that your way of putting things across does come across very aggressively, and when you're trying to talk through things that's rarely a good idea. Would you not agree?

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Itsgottab
member
Location: NZ
Member Since: 7th Nov 2001
Total posts: 244
Posted:i wouldn't go that far, i just like to put my piont out there first and then mellow back, wheres some come on weak and finish strong. its all round abouts really. maybe my veiws just aren't accpetable by most but thats cool, they're for me not anyone else.

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Organized Kaos
member
Location: Thornhill, Ontario Canada
Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 238
Posted:Just another update about the suicide attacks in Israel,
A suicide attack wass carried out in a busy Jerusalem market while members the Jewish community was buying food for the sabbath
6 were killed and over 70 injured...
Just an update, no comments...I am speechless...


Every morning I wake up and hit the ground yawning...

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Acid
member
Location: Israel
Member Since: 29th Jul 2001
Total posts: 110
Posted:On the 16.4 it will be memorial day for us here in Israel. Memorial day for those who where killed in action, basicaly soldiers...
Memorial day here comes one week after the memorial day for holocust victims. The night of memorial day is also the begining of independence day... just think how much into only two weeks... Anyway i was just thinking of the families who only a week or so ago mourned the loss of their boys-soldiers and now have another memorial day for them. Im not saying they don't and won't mourn everyday of their lives but just think it over a minute...Israel is a land that has a memorial day almost every day. If we call it memorial day or not it realy doesn't change the fact that that's what it is.
Okay i guess i took to much space again-just thinking to my self...
peace and love


life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans John Lennon

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Yall's situation over there is so F-up!
Both sides!

Nobody should have to live like that, and I know that it sounds stupid and hypocrytical of me to say this but peace is something worth fighting for. Your soldiers should be rememberd and celebrated everyday. It is because of their situation that I am angry that there are idiots who play professional sports who get paid booko bucks and do nothing for their country and then you have the soldier that dies for his/her country and gets treated like second rate scum! I am sorry that is a rant for a different topic. None the less that whole situation is just shitty.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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toneman
member

Member Since: 18th Oct 2001
Total posts: 195
Posted:I hope you have a memorial day for all of the people you're killing, oppressing and children you're starving. Revenge feels good, doesn't it?
wah wah wah.
Keep breeding terrorists and you'll NEVER rest peacefully....


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Acid
member
Location: Israel
Member Since: 29th Jul 2001
Total posts: 110
Posted:sorry maybe i understood wrong but - toneman- what are you ranting about? what revenge? the reason those soldiers are in the tanks is that that's the only way to date to stop the suicide attacks. yes unfotunatlly it has worked.
and the remembering of those killed on the other side-a day doesn't pass when we (im talking just for myself and close friends) don't think about the outcome. i even belive that the government people think about it and have their concsience beating at them. as for breading terrorists- there have been terrorist attacks for as long as i can remember but the last year has been the hardest. anyway that's why those kids are sent in tanks- as of now there's no other option ...


life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans John Lennon

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:Toneman's point is that you'll happily remember those Israelis who've died, but you should remember the Palestinians as well. If everyone thought about the other side as well you wouldn't be in this mess.

Acid, there have been 2 suicide attacks in the last couple of weeks. One attacker was from Jenin, when it was meant to be a sealed military zone. The invasion of Palestine has definitely not stopped suicide attacks. How can you even think that? Innocent civilians have died or lost everything. The occupied towns look like earthquake sites, Israel is guilty of crimes and human rights abuses against the palestinian people, and you think they're going sit back and not fight? What deluded world you and your country live in!

There is another option. How about Israel starts by giving back the land and respect it stole from the Palestinians and entering into talks with the Palestinian leaders?


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Organized Kaos
member
Location: Thornhill, Ontario Canada
Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 238
Posted:Alright, I guess Im gonna have to use my same analogy of America, Britain (Hey dom, youre from britain) and any other country involved in bushes war on terrorism...
Maybe you forget that in Afghanistan a hospital was blown up killing hundreds of civilians...
and wheres your memorial day for all the civilians you killed in Afghanistan?
But on one occasion where the israelis actually hurt civilians we should have a memorial day for them.
You're once again influenced by the bias of the media, the attack in all these occupied territories are against terrorists. and at the church of the nativity a bunch of gunmen hid out to hide from the Israeli army.

Dom- The Israelis are trying their best to stop suicuide bombers, and they have coaught many on many occasions.
The reason the Israelis are missing these bombers is because they are dressed as pregnant women, and the Israelis do not like to frisk women for explosives.
It says something about a nation when they start sending their women to do their dirty work, and they hide in a church because they know the Israelis wont touch them, because they know the israelis have too much respect to go and destroy a holy place...Im sorry but these actions points me to a nation of cowards, too scared to take responsibility for their actions.

The americans were cowards and scared to admit their faults and did not even try to count or even rescue the civilians they hurt, but the Israelis went right in to try and rescue the injured.
Israeli doctors treat both the Israeli injured as well as the palestinian injured...in fact they have actually treated palestinian gunmen in Israeli hospitals...I doubt wounded Israelis would get the same treatment in palestinian hospitals...

Today is memorial day for our brave soldiers who fought and are still risking their lives in a battle for our homeland...Acid, I'm with ou all the way, the nation of Israel will get through this...'Yihiyeh Tov'


Every morning I wake up and hit the ground yawning...

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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:Don't even get me started on all the idiotic things america has done, i'll go on all day and into the night. suffice to say i agree taht anyone supporting americas war on terrorism better not be yelling at Israel...

but that doesn't mean that Israel and Palestine both don't need to start severly rethinking what they are doing. It's a viscious circle someone has to break...


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Firefairy
member
Location: UK
Member Since: 12th Oct 2001
Total posts: 115
Posted:Tears fell to water the single flower which
Grew where he was sllain.
His resting place marked without a name.
Somewhere a mother crys for her only son
And knowone could tell which country he was from.


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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:Kaos, you may want to read the Anti-War thread before even hinting that I supported the war in Afghanistan or the US's 'war' on terrorism! I want Bush executed for murder, Texas style. For months I've been marching through London, lighting candles outside parliament. That's where I am, on the streets demonstrating, talking, standing up against death and destruction. Yourself?

I support memorial days for everyone who dies. 365 memorial days every year. Why pick and choose who deserved to die based on where they lived, if you knew them or what religion they follow? Are you remembering the innocent Palestinians who have died and if not, why not? Stop fucking around and answer me that?

And Israel, your homeland? If it's only your homeland because you're Jewish then why? Were you or your parents born there, if so fine. Otherwise surely Judasism, as a religion, has it's true home in your soul, not on any rock? And if not isn't this land also the birthplace and major worship site of Christianity and Islam? So, it's a homeland for 3 religions. You see the problem now?

It's home, not a homeland, to millions of people, Israeli and Palestinian. Why can't Israeli's live in their homes without fear of suicide bombers on the buses. Why can't Palestinians live in their homes without fear of bulldozers and relocation to a refuge camp while the land that was their home is given away with compensation. Why? Greed. Selfishness. Small mindedness. Ignorance. On both sides. But guns never educated anyone.

"The Israelis are trying their best to stop suicide bombers, and they have caught many on many occasions" - yes, but they've created the conditions for even more people to pick up arms against Israel. There weren't only 200 terrorists in Palestine that you can arrest and stop. As long as Palestinians are oppressed by Israel Palestine is a terrorist factory. You can't stop that with invasions and tanks. You stop it with hope.

"It says something about a nation when they start sending their women to do their dirty work" - yeah, I forgot, women are just mindless apes with no opinions of their own who are told to go kill themselves without questioning why. For god sakes what universe do you live in! Women are usually emotionally stronger than men and live for life more. For women to become suicide bombers is a sign that they're really desperate and have lost all hope.

"because they know the israelis have too much respect to go and destroy a holy place" - bollocks! The Israeli's are as guilty as any other country or religion when it comes to hijacking holy places. During war almost no attacking force has respected religious force (except during the crusades when Jerusalem was captured by Saladin (I think it was him) he gave the order that no Christian church was to be harmed). The intifada started when Sharon visited the Haram, a Muslim holy site, in September 2000, with troops! He used religion to intimidate the Palestinians. He has no respect for anything outside of Israel.

"the Israelis went right in to try and rescue the injured." Again, bollocks! Then denied the Red Crescent access and they limited the movement of ambulances. This helps the dieing how?

I think you, as a Jew, are biased. You can have access to all the information, but if your mind is closed you'll never hear it.

Bit carried away there, apologies. I truly hope Israel and Palestine get through this. But even more I really hoped people didn't have to die, but it seems most people are too stupid to realise there can be peace without killing all your enemies.


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toneman
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Member Since: 18th Oct 2001
Total posts: 195
Posted:

[ 18 April 2002, 04:06: Message edited by: toneman ]


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