Forums > Social Chat > Fire Spinners are the Biggest Flakes in the World.

Posted: 10th Feb 2004

Quote:

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NYC = Biggest whinger in the world

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That may be true. (Oh, and please don't use the word Nazi like that... it's a much more serious word than you are using it there...)

I would admit that I'm overreacting BUT I am contrasting it with other areas of my life. I had a bunch of buddies over this past saturday. I asked everyone to please show up by 3 and almost everyone did. The ONE who didn't sincerely apoligized. Why can't fire spinners show the same respect that everyone else in the planet seems to be capable of? What is it about that particular demographic which seems to have a global issue with getting to events without inconveniencing others?

"Dude, carry a book" is selfish. I'm not talking about people who are late because of an accident or because of an unforseen delay. I'm talking about people who leave their house 2 hours after we're supposed to meet somewhere and don't even bother to call.

Having someone stand in a park for hours without even calling to cancel is selfish.
Having someone waste someone else's time is selfish.
If someone says "I'll be there at 3", expecting them at 3 doesn't make me a nazi.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Posted: 10th Feb 2004

Quote:

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NYC = Biggest whinger in the world

Yeah it can be annoying waiting for people sometimes. But it's equally annoying having punctuality nazis acting like you've stabbed them in the face because you got a bit held up.

Dude, carry a book around with you, and more importantly a cellphone.

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How very rude.

To NYC I'd like to again thank you for bringing up this topic, I hope reactions like the above aren't too hurtful to you.

There is a lot of stuff I've disagreed with you in the past but I'm completely with you on this one.

I guess there's two types of people in this world, those to whom lateness and unreliability is ok, and those to whom it isn't.

Like I said before, to me it's no longer a big deal, once I've established that someone doesn't respect me enough to turn up when they say they're going to then I can stop wasting my time with them.

I think we should realise that we're not just talking about fire meets here, I've long since given up hope of more than 10% of the 'definites' appearing at those.

What my previous posts, and seemingly those of several others, is on the level of trying to arrange things with a few individuals, either a social meet. or maybe something to do with setting up a project.

In those kind of cases it's either total reliability, a damned good reason (e.g. I was run over, rather than 'Oh, sorry I'm late- I didn't set off on time), or they're out.

It's not being a nazi, it's being the kind of person who is confident enough to know what kind of people they want in their life.

I think the main value of this thread is that those of us who are reliable can see that we're not alone, we're not freaks, not 'punctuality nazis'; and can stop feeling apologetic for who we are.

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Posted: 10th Feb 2004
What annoys me is when you set up a spinning meet. ie PiP and after people asking for you to organise one 4 months they only turn up to the first couple.
People saying they will turn up and dont.

The PiP was running last year for a few months, but half of the people who said they would come to them never showed up.
If people dont want to come to something, or have never intended to, then they should just say so, instead of placating you by saying they'll turn up, when they dont intend to.

Being late and not ringing is rude. Its not a hard thing to do.

Saying you'll be somewhere then not turning up cos u cant be bothered is just disrespectful.

I dont want to sound nasty here, but this has happened, and it annoys me when you go to the effort of arranging things and people dont have the common courtesy of turning up to them, or even informing you if they cant make it.

The way you act says a lot about how much you care about someones feelings, if you care then have a little respect.

Take care

Only when the last tree has died
and the last river has been poisoned
and the last fish has been caught
will we realise that we
cannot eat money.

Cree Indian, 1909

Posted: 10th Feb 2004
Happens with me too. I've planned a few spinning events and had people flake out, or when I call them, they'll say "I was gonna go, but it was too cold!"

If you have a reason not to go, at least say sorry, and if something like putting on a sweater is too hard of a thing to do, you shouldn't be making plans in the first place. My spinning friends are the biggest flakes I know, not sure about in the world, but you're not alone NYC. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Posted: 10th Feb 2004
Thanks Dave.

At our last huge party in New York I was in charge of compiling the list of fire spinners. Over 100 people emailed me saying they wanted to spin fire. We had the space and cleared it with FDNY and even payed an FDNY inspector to be with us all night. I made over 100 laminated passes for firespinners to be easily identified by the inspector throughout the night. I printed out a ton of emails and copied everyone onto a master list.

Out of the 100 that got on the list... 12 people showed up that night. ALL of whom were my buddies. I did a TON of work for nothing as I could have easily just vouched for the 12 of us.

I could have read two books.

But at least I had fun at the party.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Posted: 11th Feb 2004
Well I hope that people who are reading this may think about their actions now and be more proactive when it comes to holding up their responsibilities. Perhaps this thread may even spur a revolution, although I doubt it!

Some excellent comments made by people and I can identify with all the stories here. Its funny though how there was an instant backlash to this thread and I would like to hear people's opinions of those who think we are wrong. I think its strange and quite alien to me that people obviously do think it is ok to flake out of responsibilities to other members of the group as shown by the couple of replies to this thread and the creating of the other thread to try and bolster support.

'Happiness is liking peeing on yourself. Everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.'

'If *I* had a hammer, there'd be no more folk singers.'

Posted: 11th Feb 2004
after reading this thred i've realised i'm probably a bit flakey. I don't just not show up to stuff without ringing, but i do back out of EVERYTHING and hardly ever go to stuff i say i will, mostly cos i can't be bothered. But recently i decided that i do f**k all and ought to go out more, so i just did. It's not hard, in fact it's FUN to go out!!


so you've helped one person with this thread anyway, and made me some new friends!!
Yay!

I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

Posted: 11th Feb 2004

Quote:

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after reading this thred i've realised i'm probably a bit flakey. I don't just not show up to stuff without ringing, but i do back out of EVERYTHING and hardly ever go to stuff i say i will, mostly cos i can't be bothered........

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It's understandable that people can be shaky about actually leaving the house sometimes, I used to be that way myself, partly due to shyness.

That's ok, though it's good to work on it cos, like you say, it's good to go out and get involved.

It'd be great though, for people who are like that, for them to say they might come, rather than that they will .

If I'm organising something I'm totally ok if people don't want to commit, then I know where I stand and can decide how much effort I'm going to put into it.

What is really bad is when everyone says 'Yes, I'll be there' and then don't appear. There's no need for it, if people say that they might come I respect that.

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Posted: 11th Feb 2004
We're talking about several different things here i.e. meeting up with individuals, setting up projects, and PIP style gatherings.

Generally with the latter people turn up when they want, there's generally no expectation of commitment.

If it works out then sheer numbers can keep it going.

However, even with these there is a fair chance many will fail due to lack of commitment- there's been many posts of this forum about meets dying out.

But if you're happy about that, and freedom/informality is important, then fine.

Where it's not fine is on a personal basis i.e. you say you're going to meet up with someone and then leave them standing for an hour. And the same goes with people setting up a small project- they're putting in way more effort than most people realise, and they need definite yes, nos and maybes, and they need people to stick to what they've said.

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Posted: 11th Feb 2004
Exactly what onewheeldave said. I was not referring to the gatherings in clapham, spits etc... I was referring to gigs, projects and general one on one social meets.

Because I agree with u frosty paw in that u have no responsibility to turn up to clapham but if it is a fire troupe meeting or something like it then it is important.

'Happiness is liking peeing on yourself. Everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.'

'If *I* had a hammer, there'd be no more folk singers.'

Posted: 11th Feb 2004
i agree with most on this thread... being very late or just not turning up is rude..and at some level alittle bit of an insult to the person who has spent time and effort organising things.

as my nan says "the world doesnt just revolve around you" and "treat people as you would expect to be treated yourself "...

im sure all the flakes out there who have tried to defend themselves in this and other threads would be just as peeved if they found it in themselve to organise something and only a few or no one showed!

she who sees from up high smiles

Patrick badger king: *they better hope there's never a jihad on stupidity*

Posted: 11th Feb 2004
Referring to my above post that was accused of rudeness by Onewheeldave:
sorry, i was aiming at irreverent rather than rude. The "biggest whinger in the world" comment was meant to be a direct counterpart to NYCs equally non-serious thread title : Fire Spinners are the Biggest Flakes in the World. Also i'd hope that having met me, NYC would guess i wasn't intending any meanness by the comment. Particulary given the after it.

Also please note that i didn't call NYC a "Punctuality Nazi", merely mentioned that such people can be equally infuriating IMO. A statement i stand by.
(i definitely accept his comment about the overuse of 'nazi' and so will amend the term to "Punctuality Fascist")

i'm not habitually late by any means. Generally i'm one of those people that show up to things early.
but i don't condemn people for a lack of punctuality unless a specific request for it has been made.
and right or wrong as it may be in your eyes, i expect the same courtesy to be extended to me

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

Posted: 11th Feb 2004
I think people that consistently flake on things or show up late to things without consideration for others have never had to plan an event or organize a group of people. They don't know what all is required and how much planning goes into a social gathering. They have no idea that the person organizing anything has actually put so much work into the event or a part of himself into it as well.

I think if you made those people plan any sort of event, their ideas would change and they would be able to see why some consider it rude not to show up or to be really late without calling.

It is definitely something that bugs me as well. I just learn who I can rely on to be there, and who might flake out of me by not showing up. I know that if certain ones don't show up by a certain time, they are not going to show at all. How do I deal with this? I usually bring a book with me if I know I may be waiting for a while. If it is a regularly scheduled meeting and attendance starts lacking, I'll quit it for a while to see if anyone is still interested. This also forces those that are intersted in still doing something to think about hosting it themselves instead.

Posted: 11th Feb 2004

Quote:

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I think people that consistently flake on things or show up late to things without consideration for others have never had to plan an event or organize a group of people. They don't know what all is required and how much planning goes into a social gathering. They have no idea that the person organizing anything has actually put so much work into the event or a part of himself into it as well.

I think if you made those people plan any sort of event, their ideas would change and they would be able to see why some consider it rude not to show up or to be really late without calling.

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Applause for Spritie's nail head hittingness.

I agree the idea behind social gathering is just that and a 'commitment' isn't necessary. I feel the same way.

However it is very disheartening (not infuriating) when you continually try to organise a 'social' gathering, only to find yourself quite literally the only one there.

With regards to solid arrangements and being stood up, that's bad and all angry words above apply.

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

Posted: 11th Feb 2004
I think I'm usually on time, my clocks are all 5 minutes fast but I don't ever wear a watch (cuz then you just clock-watch the whole damn time) so can be late. I think major lateness requires notifying but minor doesn't no matter how frequent.
One thing I have noticed though is that the certain people in my life who have...erm..."difficulties" with their tardiness are the ones who complain the most and over react about others who are late and ruin their plans. Although a little reminding as to their unpunctuality usually sorts them out!

Let's relight this forum

Posted: 11th Feb 2004
im just late for everything for ages... then oneday i'll start being really early for ages...

and the cycle goes on.

but i think its unfair to say "Just fire spinners" musicians and dealers are always the latest people in the world, unless its a big gig or a huge score. so

but lets chill out a bit ere, mkay?

D.B.
X x X x X

Ship off the starboard! sound general quarters! noise and light discipline! man the cannons! GET ME THE RUM!

Master of the Free Hug Program

Posted: 11th Feb 2004

Quote:

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but i think its unfair to say "Just fire spinners" musicians and dealers are always the latest people in the world.

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i think you've got a point there, i spend the majority of my life with spinners musicians, actors, designers etc etc. I think it's the creative thing.
i always used to think that actors were soooooooooo dumb because they don't notice stuff like there's an enormous bit of scenery flying at their head, or their prop is actually in the same place it has been for the entire 6 weeks of rehearsal and all the performances.

But when i tried acting with Stage managers and everything, i discovered that once you start having to be creative, your sense of time and common sense goes . Maybe it's just not possible to think with right and left at the same time.

I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

Posted: 11th Feb 2004
If you're on time you're late, if you're 15 minutes early, you're on time.

Those are the words I live by.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Posted: 11th Feb 2004
This post is kind of a seperate related issue to the whole no show thing, a little thoery of mine which helps explain why it sometimes happens. It's by no means an excuse, sufferers from it can use it as an excuse not to show, but not not to show without an explanation.



Poi, juggling, theatre, activism, freeparties etc - all sorts of things which require meetings/events are for the most part practiced by slightly excentric people. They need'ent be obsolete/underground, but they arn't truely mainstream. People find them for various reasons, but having met about 60 HoP people now, quite a significant percentage of them are very shy. There's shy people everywhere, but i don't encounter them in my more mainstream hobbies, which generally involve drinking and pubs. There's a variety of reasons why people don't want to show up to things that are routed from many different sources, shyness is by no means the main. I also know several shy people who don't often go out, but they don't mind admitting why, and don't claim to do things which they have no intention of doing. So it's not a problem. I've met many people who opennly claim to be shy, and many who you can tell are totally comfortable and happy around their own friends at an event, but really cautious around others. Sometimes people even come across as as being rude/unfriendly/unwelcoming, but they really don't mean to be.



The reason why i bring up the topic thou, is that I have encountered people who are really shy, but live in sort of a fantasy world, where they actually do the things they claim, go out as much as they claim they do, where purely for example they actually go surfing not just try their best to look like surfers. It gets to the point where they truely beleive that they are going to do things, but when the time comes they're actually sitting in the garden getting stoned, or watching kids tv all morning like they have done for years. They didn't spitefully plan it either, thats just where they were always destined to be when you call up and wonder why they didn't show. I'm not talking about anyone who posts on HoP at the moment here, so this really isn't aimed at anyone who might be reading, but in the past I have met several people who fall into this category. They may not want to be in it, they may not even conciously know they are in it, and i might just be talking rubbish as a result of spending the last 10 hours in a lab staring at a computer monitor writting java . The last person who i spotted it in, talked endlessly about all the things they did, and we arranged to do several of them together. The first time they talked on and on about doing it, then like a couple of days before pulled out, with a really crap reason. The second time, they did the same. The third time, again, they were going on an on about how cool it will be, then the night before when i'd sorted it all out, spent quite a lot of energy organising it/pulling favours etc, i called them up to confirm. I knew in the back of my mind they'd pull out, i even joked about it with other mutual friends. Low and behold they had the worst excuse i've heard in a long time for why they couldn't make it. If i hadn't of called they just wouldn't have turned up and they wouldn't have tried to let me know in advance. So i don't spend time with this person anymore. I don't dislike them, but I had friends who acted like 11 year olds when i was 11, and now i'm 22 and have lots of friends who for the most part (when it matters at least) act like adults, I don't really have time for the 11 year olds anymore. The internet only makes it worse, people can browse and talk about online for hours about all the things which they don't actually do - it's just *so* temptingly easy to lie.



This is of course all a theory, and perhaps I should really go and eat a proper meal, but it does none the less fit in with the reason why some people don't show up to things which they talk about doing, and will assure you, even upto when you call them leaving the house to go to the meeting point, that they'll be there. It's not an excuse either, just an explanation. I think all people suffer from it to a degree. I would count myself as an outgoing person, i have loads of hobbies, social groups etc, but even i notice myself suffering from it to a degree. You'll be really up for something, but then when you think there's a chance that no one you really know well will show up, no saftey blanket so to speak to chat with when you're feeling uncomfortable, it's quite offputting. These days I go anyway, and I've had a lot of fun and made new friends at events which i planned to go with friends to but ended being the only one going. So, this post isn't meant to be either an excuse, a universal explanation, a comment on previous posts made, or dig at shy people in general. Just a little theory i have, which you can flame to pieces if it makes you happy

Posted: 7th Mar 2004
Wanna see a flakier group? Look for any pickup Ultimate Frisbee games. Insanely late almost every time. That aside, all the spinners I've had to deal with are almost always in contact, and are there no later than five minutes from when they said they'd be.

kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

Posted: 7th Mar 2004
Friday night I had an anti-flake spinning thing! We were expecting 5 people at a gathering, but it turns out more people heard about it than we thought and a solid 25 or 30 people came, not to mention probably 40 or 50 people watching over time.

Posted: 8th Mar 2004

Quote:

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Also i'd hope that having met me, NYC would guess i wasn't intending any meanness by the comment. Particulary given the after it.

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#

for the record once youve met the monkey its impossible to take that post in a bad way, he's just teasing, dont be mad at the monkey...

random murbles

BELTANE FIRE FESTIVAL. 30th april ~ Calton hill - Edinburgh
SAMHUINN FESTIVAL. 31st October ~ Royal Mile - Edinburgh

Posted: 8th Mar 2004
I can safely say that I forgot completely about 'the monkey' as that post was a month ago.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Posted: 8th Mar 2004
i've just discovered a bigger flake than any before

the technical assisant on the show i'm on at the mo is SO annoying. Not only does he flake, he leaves me to do all the work and all the stuff he's supposed to, including flying stuff i can't physically lift.

so tonight i'm on my own again - he says he has a good reason, but i just lived with a psychopathic alcoholic for a month and i came in EVERY DAY except 2.

when i told him he was annoying me, he called me an anrrogant little child!!!!

don't you just hate people like that?

I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

Posted: 8th Mar 2004
strange what peaple are saying about techies....

I work in threatre, and one of the cardinal rules as far as im concerned (apart from QUIET BACKSTAGE!!!!) is punctuality, as everone in the theatre is dependant on each other to make the show work.

there was one gig when i was consistently late, but that was a 9 am show in the festival where i didnt sleep more than two hours a night for 3 weeks.

but firespinner are pretty bad, and no rob, you dont escape, remeber trying to get a van out of the ditch come nightfall? what time were we supposed to get there?

T

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

Posted: 9th Mar 2004
we have a simple solution to this firespinning wise here:

There is a standing meet every friday night at the Bandshell in the park for spinners and drummers. It is from 9pm to 2 am. If your there great well chat and pass the herb if not we'll see yah when you are. End of story it's a no stress win win situation.

In the 60's people took acid to make the world weird, now the world is weird and they take prozac to make it normal again.

Posted: 14th Jul 2004
Not the most upliftingly spirited post

Why is it when you're pissed off everyone tries to make you feel better? Yeah I appreciate it so I just tell them to leave me alone, I really just want to be angry for a while
My friend's have been flaking out on me left right and centre recently which is the source of my frustration
Anyway, I'm still angry and will remain so for a while. It's just when I feel like kicking something and punching many faces in that someone walks in the door and tries to hug you, I had to contain my anger so i didn't punch that person. I just can't handle all my anger for the one person, I spread it out onto all those around me and I hate myself and get even angrier for it. I suck!

Yes, my friends are so flaky I have to vent on Home of Poi,
Think I'm going for a walk now... a very fast one.

Monkeys monkeys and bananas

Posted: 14th Jul 2004
wat happens if you dont realise ur late until ur late! i resent being called unreliable!

I'll come back as fire and burn all the liars and leave a blanket of ashes on the ground.
I could write the new bridget jones diary only mine would be more bizarre, funnier, dirtier more unbelievabe and bloody true!

Posted: 14th Jul 2004
how late do you have to be, to be flaky? I'm usually pretty much on time for things give or take 5-10 minutes either way and i don't own a watch, so I think I'm doing pretty well. That and I'm (allegedly) a hippy, designing, daydreaming wreck of a pisces, astrologically speaking it shouldn't work, but it does

Although I have cultivated a habit of being a bit later to certain events because I *know* that other people will also be late, and owing to my comprative efficiency, i know that I would otherwise be waiting a long time...

Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006

if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.

Posted: 15th Jul 2004
changing a holiday to a week later and not telling the only person who was up for the holiday in the first place til it's too late is pretty damn flaky but i feel better today

Monkeys monkeys and bananas