Forums > Other Toys > circle of fire
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
Me
607 posts
Location: London/Bristol, United Kingdom
Me
607 posts
Location: London/Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
Basicly Me and afew other bristol spinners are trying to put together a fire show, at one point in the show someone needs to be traped in a circle of fire which will burn for about 2-3mins so i was wondering if people could give me afew idea as to how to make this circle of fire.
the ideas that we've come up with so far are based on a chicken wire frame to raise the fire off the ground (cos we don't what to burn the grass) and weave into the frame some sort of wick. but the problem with this is what wick do we want to use, cotton would be nice and cheep but when it burns it would probably fall through the chicken wire and probably wouldn't last for long enough, Kevlar rope might be the best wick but we'd perfer to keep down the hugely growing expenses and would to burn for long enough?
Any ideas welcome based on the chicken wire frame or not.
Cheers Tim
Basicly Me and afew other bristol spinners are trying to put together a fire show, at one point in the show someone needs to be traped in a circle of fire which will burn for about 2-3mins so i was wondering if people could give me afew idea as to how to make this circle of fire.
the ideas that we've come up with so far are based on a chicken wire frame to raise the fire off the ground (cos we don't what to burn the grass) and weave into the frame some sort of wick. but the problem with this is what wick do we want to use, cotton would be nice and cheep but when it burns it would probably fall through the chicken wire and probably wouldn't last for long enough, Kevlar rope might be the best wick but we'd perfer to keep down the hugely growing expenses and would to burn for long enough?
Any ideas welcome based on the chicken wire frame or not.
Cheers Tim
Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all C
t
member
5 posts
Location: New York City
5 posts
Location: New York City
Posted:
It's funny... Me and my Partner Agni were thinking about that.... at one point in the show we wanted a circle of fire... lol but it is a pain to totally have a full proof circle of fire without messing up... Fuel is a no no in your case... hmmm... your onto something... you can use white T-Shirts, very cheap and big or an old pair of jeans... You need the bigger the better but cheap... cuz cotton balls just won't cut it here lol...
It's funny... Me and my Partner Agni were thinking about that.... at one point in the show we wanted a circle of fire... lol but it is a pain to totally have a full proof circle of fire without messing up... Fuel is a no no in your case... hmmm... your onto something... you can use white T-Shirts, very cheap and big or an old pair of jeans... You need the bigger the better but cheap... cuz cotton balls just won't cut it here lol...
Pyro [The Fire Hazard]
=================
member
46 posts
Location: Oregon
46 posts
Location: Oregon
Posted:
For ground lines and pattern burns, I personally prefer a simple mixture of Sawdust and Kero. The sawdust serves to stabilize the Kero, and give you a format that easy to manipulate and control. You can control the time and size of the burn by varying the ratio of Kero to Sawdust, and the shape you put it down in.
Putting a wide flat band gives you a fairly large bright flame, that only lasts a short time. Whereas a thinner taller line creates a smaller flame with longer burn time.
Now in this case you say you would like to raise the circle off of the ground. The best way I know to do this is to create a very inexpensive frame using steel V-channel available at your local hardware store, and some creative use of brackets for the legs.
The v gives you a nice trough to hold and control the mixture. The only downside is a minor tripping hazard if it very far off of the ground. Luckily as long as your area is not very flammable you only need a few inches of clearance to protect the ground.
Even lighting of this can also be tricky if you are needing it to appear all at once during the performance. For my preference I like to use a small spray bottle of something more volatile than Kero, such as White Gas, and give a liberal spraying to the top of the mix shortly before showtime. Though if you are wanting a slower more dramatic progression, lighting one or more sections of the device will allow the fire to flow naturally along its length.
For ground lines and pattern burns, I personally prefer a simple mixture of Sawdust and Kero. The sawdust serves to stabilize the Kero, and give you a format that easy to manipulate and control. You can control the time and size of the burn by varying the ratio of Kero to Sawdust, and the shape you put it down in.
Putting a wide flat band gives you a fairly large bright flame, that only lasts a short time. Whereas a thinner taller line creates a smaller flame with longer burn time.
Now in this case you say you would like to raise the circle off of the ground. The best way I know to do this is to create a very inexpensive frame using steel V-channel available at your local hardware store, and some creative use of brackets for the legs.
The v gives you a nice trough to hold and control the mixture. The only downside is a minor tripping hazard if it very far off of the ground. Luckily as long as your area is not very flammable you only need a few inches of clearance to protect the ground.
Even lighting of this can also be tricky if you are needing it to appear all at once during the performance. For my preference I like to use a small spray bottle of something more volatile than Kero, such as White Gas, and give a liberal spraying to the top of the mix shortly before showtime. Though if you are wanting a slower more dramatic progression, lighting one or more sections of the device will allow the fire to flow naturally along its length.
We are all atheists, some of us just believe in fewer gods than others. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
-Stephen F. Roberts
BRONZE Member
Me
607 posts
Location: London/Bristol, United Kingdom
Me
607 posts
Location: London/Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
Sawdust and paraffin, thats a grate idea
wouldn't have thought of that, will have to play around with mixtures 2morrow. the only bitch is over the summer i helped my dad redo our guttering most of it was iron then i helped him load it into the car and take it down to the dump 
bollock me thinks that would have been perfect.
Sawdust and paraffin, thats a grate idea
wouldn't have thought of that, will have to play around with mixtures 2morrow. the only bitch is over the summer i helped my dad redo our guttering most of it was iron then i helped him load it into the car and take it down to the dump bollock me thinks that would have been perfect. Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all Ct
SILVER Member
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Posted:
The sawdust would work but it seems a little scarry. What if someone kicked it or hit it with poi sending flaming sawdust into the crowd.
The best fire circles I have seen are using propane. If you have access to some tools they are easy to make. Get some (6) metal threaded plumbing pipe about 1/2" and 45 degree angle connectors and make a hexagon. The length of the pipe determies the size. One of the angle connectors needs to have a third outlet for another piece of pipe to a hose (propane grade). Drill holes in the pipe pointing up and run the hose to a propane tank. Propane is relatively safe if everything is put together properly. Consult the hardware store guy on how to properly seal everything.
The sawdust would work but it seems a little scarry. What if someone kicked it or hit it with poi sending flaming sawdust into the crowd.
The best fire circles I have seen are using propane. If you have access to some tools they are easy to make. Get some (6) metal threaded plumbing pipe about 1/2" and 45 degree angle connectors and make a hexagon. The length of the pipe determies the size. One of the angle connectors needs to have a third outlet for another piece of pipe to a hose (propane grade). Drill holes in the pipe pointing up and run the hose to a propane tank. Propane is relatively safe if everything is put together properly. Consult the hardware store guy on how to properly seal everything. Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada
member
46 posts
Location: Oregon
46 posts
Location: Oregon
Posted:
Mixed properly the Sawdust/Kero mixture should be slightly damp and clumpy. It does not fly as a dust like pure Sawdust would. On the ground it is reasonably safe, and would require a major screw up, or intentional kicking to move it very far. In the V-channel frame the mixture should be even with or below the edge of the V. This makes it very difficult to hit the actual flaming mixture and cause any mischief.
Regardless of the source, ground fires always have an inherent level of danger that you must be aware of, and prepared for.
The Propane rig would work. However, it would be more expensive, and not nearly as transportable. The V-channel method could be made as several small semi circular frames that can be assembled on-site. Additionally, I would personally be concerned about pressure regulation and several other technical difficulties with using gas.
Mixed properly the Sawdust/Kero mixture should be slightly damp and clumpy. It does not fly as a dust like pure Sawdust would. On the ground it is reasonably safe, and would require a major screw up, or intentional kicking to move it very far. In the V-channel frame the mixture should be even with or below the edge of the V. This makes it very difficult to hit the actual flaming mixture and cause any mischief.
Regardless of the source, ground fires always have an inherent level of danger that you must be aware of, and prepared for.
The Propane rig would work. However, it would be more expensive, and not nearly as transportable. The V-channel method could be made as several small semi circular frames that can be assembled on-site. Additionally, I would personally be concerned about pressure regulation and several other technical difficulties with using gas.
We are all atheists, some of us just believe in fewer gods than others. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
-Stephen F. Roberts
SILVER Member
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Posted:
That's the amazing thing about propane. Turn the bottle on a little and light the closest end, then turn it up to the volume you want. When your done, turn the bottle off and let the fire go out. Disconnect the tube and blow the ring clear. You can unscrew the pipe in 6 places to break it down. No complicated pressures or guages needed. Yes it would be more expensive to make, but once you have it it will last forever and all you have to buy is propane.
If you go for the sawdust and Kero mix just be carefull. 
That's the amazing thing about propane. Turn the bottle on a little and light the closest end, then turn it up to the volume you want. When your done, turn the bottle off and let the fire go out. Disconnect the tube and blow the ring clear. You can unscrew the pipe in 6 places to break it down. No complicated pressures or guages needed. Yes it would be more expensive to make, but once you have it it will last forever and all you have to buy is propane.
If you go for the sawdust and Kero mix just be carefull. Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Posted:
Right on Hank!
Everyone knows butane's a bastard gas.
Right on Hank!
Everyone knows butane's a bastard gas.
I live in a world of infinite possibilities.
BRONZE Member
Me
607 posts
Location: London/Bristol, United Kingdom
Me
607 posts
Location: London/Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
I like the idea of propane hexagon and i've had a bit of experience putting together plumbing so think is would be within my capabilities to make, but considering our only method of transport is a car with no roof rack and it's got to have a diameter of a least 5ft it would be impractical. Saying that hopefully but the end of the summer we'll have some better transport so i might make it a project to do over the summer.
I think my best bet is to keep with the saw dust and paffin. The safety of this is an issue but our latest idea is to make the circle (hexagon) out of 6 planks of wood with a troff shape mounted on each, if the plank are wide enough the centre of gravity will be low down making it difficult to kick over, also the circle will be quite far away from the audience and we'll have our safety guy standing near with a big bucket of water. The only trouble i've got now is i've not been able to find anywhere which sells any sort of metal troff.
I like the idea of propane hexagon and i've had a bit of experience putting together plumbing so think is would be within my capabilities to make, but considering our only method of transport is a car with no roof rack and it's got to have a diameter of a least 5ft it would be impractical. Saying that hopefully but the end of the summer we'll have some better transport so i might make it a project to do over the summer.
I think my best bet is to keep with the saw dust and paffin. The safety of this is an issue but our latest idea is to make the circle (hexagon) out of 6 planks of wood with a troff shape mounted on each, if the plank are wide enough the centre of gravity will be low down making it difficult to kick over, also the circle will be quite far away from the audience and we'll have our safety guy standing near with a big bucket of water. The only trouble i've got now is i've not been able to find anywhere which sells any sort of metal troff.
Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all Ct
SILVER Member
slack rating - 9.5
2,216 posts
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay, United Kingdom
slack rating - 9.5
2,216 posts
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
as someone that's work with dodgy propane appliances before (in a non-poi related job) i'd advise against it for performances as you don't really wanna be waving naked flames around any flamable gas contained in homemade structures.... gas can go alot more wrong that sawdust and parafin and you don't wanna be about if it does!!!
incidentaly do you know loz? she's been telling me about a bunch of crazy choreographing bristolians....
as someone that's work with dodgy propane appliances before (in a non-poi related job) i'd advise against it for performances as you don't really wanna be waving naked flames around any flamable gas contained in homemade structures.... gas can go alot more wrong that sawdust and parafin and you don't wanna be about if it does!!!
incidentaly do you know loz? she's been telling me about a bunch of crazy choreographing bristolians....
It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett
BRONZE Member
Me
607 posts
Location: London/Bristol, United Kingdom
Me
607 posts
Location: London/Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
Would loz be Laura, Liora or Liz if so yes (girls should stop having names that begin with L)
if not i still might possibly know her, bristol not that big so i would doubt there's other spinners putting together a show here
Would loz be Laura, Liora or Liz if so yes (girls should stop having names that begin with L)
if not i still might possibly know her, bristol not that big so i would doubt there's other spinners putting together a show here
Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all Ct
member
46 posts
Location: Oregon
46 posts
Location: Oregon
Posted:
For the trough you really just need what is commonly refered to as "Angle Iron" by most hardware stores. It is used for things like signposts, workbenchs and such. Usually anywhere where strength and weight are both issues. It is usually fairly inexpensive as well. If all else fails you could either use some sheets of steel cut into thin strips and bent. Or any type of metal pipe cut in half lengthwise.
Really you just need any non flammable container that will hold the mix.
In fact you could simply make the frame out of wood, and line the parts exposed to open flame with metal tape, like that used for sealing up duct work. It serves as somewhat of a heat shield, and more importantly keeps the oxygen away from the wood, preventing combustion. That is how I treat all of my wooden fireprops to protect them.
For the trough you really just need what is commonly refered to as "Angle Iron" by most hardware stores. It is used for things like signposts, workbenchs and such. Usually anywhere where strength and weight are both issues. It is usually fairly inexpensive as well. If all else fails you could either use some sheets of steel cut into thin strips and bent. Or any type of metal pipe cut in half lengthwise.
Really you just need any non flammable container that will hold the mix.
In fact you could simply make the frame out of wood, and line the parts exposed to open flame with metal tape, like that used for sealing up duct work. It serves as somewhat of a heat shield, and more importantly keeps the oxygen away from the wood, preventing combustion. That is how I treat all of my wooden fireprops to protect them.
We are all atheists, some of us just believe in fewer gods than others. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
-Stephen F. Roberts
BRONZE Member
Me
607 posts
Location: London/Bristol, United Kingdom
Me
607 posts
Location: London/Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
finaly mannaged to find some angled aluminion which is perfect also the saw dusk and paffin works a treat and doesn't out embers or sparks when you blow on it as i was conserded it might. So now the fun can start. cheer for all the help.
finaly mannaged to find some angled aluminion which is perfect also the saw dusk and paffin works a treat and doesn't out embers or sparks when you blow on it as i was conserded it might. So now the fun can start. cheer for all the help.
Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all Ct
SILVER Member
slack rating - 9.5
2,216 posts
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay, United Kingdom
slack rating - 9.5
2,216 posts
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
my mate's laura, brown hair, dancy poi style...
anyway, good luck with it... you'll have to post some photo's if you get it working!
my mate's laura, brown hair, dancy poi style...
anyway, good luck with it... you'll have to post some photo's if you get it working!
It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett
BRONZE Member
Me
607 posts
Location: London/Bristol, United Kingdom
Me
607 posts
Location: London/Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
Know her well she's in the show we're doing.
Hopefully going to get it all on film which we'll post up at some point. Anyway you should come down for it check the events section for details.
Know her well she's in the show we're doing.
Hopefully going to get it all on film which we'll post up at some point. Anyway you should come down for it check the events section for details.
Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all Ct
SILVER Member
slack rating - 9.5
2,216 posts
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay, United Kingdom
slack rating - 9.5
2,216 posts
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
sounds good man... i've been long overdue a trip to bristol!
it'll probably depend when it is tho, i'll keep my beady eyes open for the dates...
sounds good man... i've been long overdue a trip to bristol!
it'll probably depend when it is tho, i'll keep my beady eyes open for the dates...
It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett
Flaming Lesbian
181 posts
Location: Portland, Oregon
181 posts
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posted:
be careful with aluminum. get an msds on it. some aluminum (specifically the 5356 and a few other alloys) release highly toxic fumes when heated.
you don't want to die in a flaming circle of poison gas
be careful with aluminum. get an msds on it. some aluminum (specifically the 5356 and a few other alloys) release highly toxic fumes when heated.
you don't want to die in a flaming circle of poison gas
Lights dancing off my skin as chains wrap round it.
Pain is in a little box and I'm so glad I found it.
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