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Forums > Social Chat > one day spirituality and science got it on

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just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted:One Day spirituality and science got it on in my head and heres the result
so before i start i should quite clearly state that these are just ideas and as such change on a regular basis based on my interactions. Id be most interested to hear ppls thoughts and ideas, i would ask that ppl quote exactly what it is they are refering to when expanding/questioning/debating ideas just to aid in claity of ideas be exchanged. i have a habit of brushing over details when i write stuff as its clear in my head but doesnt always come out clear so if there is something that is unclear please ask but please make sure that you have read what i have written not what u think i have written

so that all said here are a few ideas

idea number 1: the concept of time

The traditional concept of time is that it is a straight line, a series of events that occur sequentially. At the moment i like the concept of everything, every possible reality past
present and future all coexisting. In our current vessle of consciousness we are unable to process all this information so our conscious mind filters out all of the realitys bar one being the one that we are all currently coexperiencing. in the same way that our eyes filter out most of the visible light spectrum so that we can process the information.

To visualise how this would work imagine a infinite sided pryomid with each step that is taken down the pyromid another infinite sides appears from each face. this raises to interesting questions, firstly does that mean there is no free will and everything is predetermined and secondly which universe do we experience. To answer the first question no it doesnt mean there is no free will on the contoury it means there has to be free will, in effect it is all of our choices that choose which reality we experience. With every instant our collective consiousness is choosing which step on the pryomid we experience next.

idea number 2: pivot points

There are certain points in life that greatly affect the course of our lives and what direction they take, ill call these pivot points and then there are other choices like do i choose pepsi or coke that have less profound effects on you personally. This doesnt mean that those choices dont have any influence just not a life changing one on your personal path but that whole butterfly flapping its wings in china causing tidal waves in america effect is still very prominant but does not necessarily affect you directly.

As it is our collective conscious that determines the path that we travel and all of time coexists it makes fourtune tellers and the like a plausable posibility. As There are certain aspects of your life that can be forseen up to a certain point being a pivot point after which the future is unclear. This doesnt mean everyone that claims to see the future can just that it is a possiblity.

idea number 3: talking to god

The question then becomes how can we influence which pivot points come into our life. Many people do this through faith and prayer to their respective gods. I personally believe that we all are able to bring things that we want into our life with our own desires. Before reacting with a horrible tale of the loss or abuse of a loved one let me elaborate. We all have multiple personalitys, the difference between people with multiple personality disorder and the rest of the world is that the rest of the worlds multiple personalities are aware of each other. Each of out personalities is a learned behaviour pattern that has developed throughout or lives to help us survive in the real world. Unfortunately not all of the personalities are positive and not all of them opperate in the conscious mind. This means that if left unattended they can bring unpleasant events into your life until they are dealt with. (there is an excellent book called absolute happyness by Michael Rowland if ppl want to learn more)

So when we pray, talk to god, think positively whatever it is that you do to bring things into your life you are actively helping to choose the path that we are all traveling down the pryomid. perhaps it is our collective consiounesses that are god? maybe that would make some sense as to why our father in heaven allows so many attrocities to occur

idea number 4: What about death

i believe that when we are alive our consciousness simply has a vessle in while to experience and filter reality in, so while we are "on" the pryomid in a physical sense whether it be as a human, cat, dog, tree

tree detour
yes trees have feelings to u might say that animals are conscious living entities that feel pain and plants are not as they dont have a nervous system to feel pain. however this is not the case


explains how plants have what appears to be a similar pain response system to animals. while it is different and we dont fully comprehend it to discount the fact that plants have a reaction to such events is ignorant just because u dont understand how it hurts the plants doesnt make it hurt neless

/tree detour

what happens when we are off the pryomid? i have a feeling that as we dont need to filter any more to be able to interact in the course of selecting the path that we are collectively taking on the pryomid. I think this allows us to reflect on our past lives and to examine the possible future lives that our consciouness can choose to future our journey.

idea number 5: time travel

as much as i wish this was my idea its not but one of einstiens lesser known theories has been persued by mallet rather than rephrasing it you can read a well written explaination of it and all its ramifications here

idea number 6: what started all this hub bub

this is something that has bothered me since i was a wittle boy, because how can all of this stuff have just appeared from no where, and the big bang theory why was all the stuff there all built up ready to bang and what happened before the big bang and how can anything actually exist. the only semi plausable answer to this that i have been able to come up with is that initially there was nothing, no matter no space no time no nothing. but nothing is something, its both matter, antimatter and energy all not existing together. matter and antimatter are particles moving around which have gravitational pulls that would eventually attract like particles which could emass into the big bang.

idea number 7: quantum theory

my understanding of quantum theory is that particles both exist and dont exist at the same time until viewed by a consious observer either directly or indirectly which then forces the particles to choose what they are doing. So when you shine a ray of light through a prism it travels all of the paths and then only when viewed by a conscious observer does it choose one. which makes it kind of interesting to think about the tree falling in the forest making noise. another way to think about it is like in a 3D video game, the computer doesnt render bits of the game that nobody is looking at as what would be the point. i think that this fits in quite nicely with the pryomid idea

idea number 8: duality of light

same deal with a consious observer viewing it and forcing it to be a wave or a particle..... then again mabye its a stream of lots of little waves that act like particles .......

idea number 9: energy

ive had several experiences through meditation that make me inclined to think that the concept of chakras and blockages (see michaels book) makes alot of sense. Energy flowing through and around the body also makes sense considering the fact that we have electrity running through us from head to toe in our nervous system and that our mind controls how that flows based on our subpersonalities and blockages.

idea number 10: is there an end

i dont see any reason why there should be an end, i guess the question should be does it become a loop cos of gravity once the universe finishes expanding and runs out of energy good old gravity may pull us back into to an antibig bang. maybe then it all happens again but differently

idea number 11: this journey thing whats up with that

well a cop out answer would be to say that you cant understand the functioning of a system if you are part of it because in trying to understanding it you are changing the system. but thats a cop out, another answer would be to say that we are hear to grow and experience the many facets of existance, but once again i feel for me that is a cop out. as thats all well and good but why, whats the point of that what function does it serve. and why have the physical bodys we enhabit evolved in such a way that they present us with the need for growth. If there is a god why didnt they create us at the evolved point that we are supposed to be at. An obvious answer being that god gave us free will so that we could grow in our own way but if there is a god that designed everything so that we could grow etc then if god is indeed all knowing they would know all of the events that would occur to us and how they made us so they would know how we would react so in essence we wouldnt have free will. maybe the stuggle makes the destination better? but then again better and all that are concepts that we use to describe the world we live in and our based on our human bodies so find that hard to accept as a reason.

idea number 12: what u didnt really answer that last bit

i think that human evolution will occur over the next 50 year or so whereby we will evolve with machines such that enhanced human bodies will be just one of many vessles we will coexist (yay nanobot swarms The age of spiritual machines by ray kurzweil gives some cool predictions its a wicked read) in and maybe once that happens ill have a better answer.

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?


Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
the current model for quantum physics says that particles dont choose their states until viewed by a conscious observer

I feel the need to clean up some language here. It is not so much that the particles do not choose their states until they are observed, but rather that their states are undeterminable until you observe them, and the very act of observing them can and will disturb them to a degree (as per the uncertainty principle) that you cannot be sure of EXACTLY what those states were/are before/after the observation that disturbed the system. You can make a guess, and the closer that guess resides in time to the observation, the better it will be, but it never be with EXACT precision, and as time goes on, your aility to say what the probably answer is diminishes until it relaxes to its original probability distribution.

In reality (which is a highly over-rated word in my opinion), it is POSSIBLE that the particles have a given and well defined state at all times. But since there is no way to determine whether this is the case or not, it is exactly equivelent to saying the particle states only exist as a probabilty distribution. For all intesive purposes, neither statement is moore accurate than the other. However, we can at least get SOME information out of the system via the latter assumption (that the states just exist as probabilty distributions), and so this train of thought has inherently more power than beleiving that each particle has a set of clearly defined states that you will never know.


Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!


Location: Melbourne, Australia, Earth, M...
Member Since: 7th Mar 2002
Total posts: 433
Posted:Indeed.. when is something not 'in reality'?
Great thread. I like the idea of physics evolving in this particular way purely due to the way we devised the tests. I like to think that if there ever were a 'beginning' as such, then that was simply a moment at which there were infinite possibilities, and from there the future progresses and as it does it becomes constrained by the past, and the possibilities slowly decrease. The way the past effects the future i suppose. Cause and effect - you can't eat a sandwich that you've just fed to your cat.. but if you never bought a cat then you still could. But then that's assuming time exists and we are percieving it correctly - and who's to say we are? Our eyes present our brains with an 'upside-down' image, yet we percieve it as the 'right way up'. Time could be flowing backwards to the direction we currently percieve, and still hold to the second law of thermodynamics - since this was created based on the assumption of forward flowing time.. and you know what they say about assumptions. wink smile

-As angels debate chance and fate-
i was riding through melbourne on a midget giraffe, things were peachy.

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