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Posted:I understand that this has developed into a large community. However, in the past few weeks I have received more complaints about the behaviour of others in threads than I feel I have ever seen in my years here at HoP.
I am deeply concerned, disappointed and feeling pretty helpless.
Which is why I am posting this. Please know that I am in no way representing Malcolm, Charles, Flash Fire, Josh, Dom or the opinions of any other HoP staff member. I am making this appeal as Pele, a fellow member of this community who is extremely upset by the PM's and emails I have been getting on a regular basis about the lack of respect on this board.
Correcting the mis-spellings and grammar of others in a thread is tactless and rude, not to mention humiliating and it hurts feelings. You do not know from what educational background someone comes, so do not assume they want you to correct them. If you have an issue, PM it instead.
Answering a question. Several times in the past few weeks people have put up questions about how to go about doing something..let's say...teach, perform, make a video, etc. A specific topic of interest came up about charging for these things. The statement "You shouldn't charge because it is about the art not money" and those like it neither answers the question nor helps the poster. It shows a rather pretentious attitude in fact. There are alot of people out there who make money on what we do. If that is something you disagree with, then start an appropriate thread, but respect the request of the original poster.
Likewise, if a certain genre of people are asked for something (a professional, a poier, etc.), please respect that unless you have something to add. There were a few complaints in thread aimed specifically at professional performers in which people would say "Well, I am not a performer and I think what you did is wrong." There was also one mentioned where a staffer responded to a poi question by saying that s/he didn't understand the attraction anyway, so what was the big deal. Again, the lack of respect for the original question is amazing to me.
Opinions. Turning an opinion based question into an all out debate, which then becomes and arguement, is not acceptible. It never has been. There are people here who are dead set it seems on forcing others to see their opinion as the better one. If you disagree fine. Put up your opinion with your supporting statements. Do not assault anyone or be rude about it. And there is no need to state your opinion 5 times in the same thread with the intent of trying to change someones mind. That shows an extreme lack of respect for the opinions of your fellow HoPper.
Use of PM's was recently called into question. They are not to be used for aggressive or illegal purposes. If you feel the need, take it to email and leave HoP out of it.
The other issue which has come up is primarily focussed around the video area. Please be supportive and constructive in your criticism. "It looks like sh!t" or "Dude, that has been done to death. Try something new" are not usually the best responses to give and do not show a support of your fellow HoPpers. Acknowledging them, offering constructive criticism and advice is welcome, however.
These are in direct response to complaints I have received over the past few weeks. Some of which I was given a copy of the thread, some of which I saw for myself.
I do know that because of the abuse of some of the priveledges (sp??) we have on HoP there have been people who have been members in good standing for years who thought perhaps they should leave.
Normally, I understand the reaction to this is "Let them go." and especially this time I feel that is not a valid response at all. I think that asking for respect is not alot. I understand that this is already one of the most accepting and nicest online communities out there, and I for one want to keep it that way and refuse to let it go the way of flaming and self-importance without a fight. But it takes us all to do that.
Please think before you post. Take a moment to read what you have written and hear it in your head in a tone other than the one you intended to make sure that even if it is criticism, it is as respectful as possible. We are all entitled to expressing our opinions and feelings, but we do not have the right to barrel over others to do so.
Thanks for your time, patience and continued involvement in Home of Poi.
Pele *the exasperated and not representing the voices of others*
I am deeply concerned, disappointed and feeling pretty helpless.
Which is why I am posting this. Please know that I am in no way representing Malcolm, Charles, Flash Fire, Josh, Dom or the opinions of any other HoP staff member. I am making this appeal as Pele, a fellow member of this community who is extremely upset by the PM's and emails I have been getting on a regular basis about the lack of respect on this board.
Correcting the mis-spellings and grammar of others in a thread is tactless and rude, not to mention humiliating and it hurts feelings. You do not know from what educational background someone comes, so do not assume they want you to correct them. If you have an issue, PM it instead.
Answering a question. Several times in the past few weeks people have put up questions about how to go about doing something..let's say...teach, perform, make a video, etc. A specific topic of interest came up about charging for these things. The statement "You shouldn't charge because it is about the art not money" and those like it neither answers the question nor helps the poster. It shows a rather pretentious attitude in fact. There are alot of people out there who make money on what we do. If that is something you disagree with, then start an appropriate thread, but respect the request of the original poster.
Likewise, if a certain genre of people are asked for something (a professional, a poier, etc.), please respect that unless you have something to add. There were a few complaints in thread aimed specifically at professional performers in which people would say "Well, I am not a performer and I think what you did is wrong." There was also one mentioned where a staffer responded to a poi question by saying that s/he didn't understand the attraction anyway, so what was the big deal. Again, the lack of respect for the original question is amazing to me.
Opinions. Turning an opinion based question into an all out debate, which then becomes and arguement, is not acceptible. It never has been. There are people here who are dead set it seems on forcing others to see their opinion as the better one. If you disagree fine. Put up your opinion with your supporting statements. Do not assault anyone or be rude about it. And there is no need to state your opinion 5 times in the same thread with the intent of trying to change someones mind. That shows an extreme lack of respect for the opinions of your fellow HoPper.
Use of PM's was recently called into question. They are not to be used for aggressive or illegal purposes. If you feel the need, take it to email and leave HoP out of it.
The other issue which has come up is primarily focussed around the video area. Please be supportive and constructive in your criticism. "It looks like sh!t" or "Dude, that has been done to death. Try something new" are not usually the best responses to give and do not show a support of your fellow HoPpers. Acknowledging them, offering constructive criticism and advice is welcome, however.
These are in direct response to complaints I have received over the past few weeks. Some of which I was given a copy of the thread, some of which I saw for myself.
I do know that because of the abuse of some of the priveledges (sp??) we have on HoP there have been people who have been members in good standing for years who thought perhaps they should leave.
Normally, I understand the reaction to this is "Let them go." and especially this time I feel that is not a valid response at all. I think that asking for respect is not alot. I understand that this is already one of the most accepting and nicest online communities out there, and I for one want to keep it that way and refuse to let it go the way of flaming and self-importance without a fight. But it takes us all to do that.
Please think before you post. Take a moment to read what you have written and hear it in your head in a tone other than the one you intended to make sure that even if it is criticism, it is as respectful as possible. We are all entitled to expressing our opinions and feelings, but we do not have the right to barrel over others to do so.
Thanks for your time, patience and continued involvement in Home of Poi.
Pele *the exasperated and not representing the voices of others*
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
FireSpirit
SILVER Member since Mar 2001
![FireSpirit]()
Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
Location: South Lake Tahoe, USA
Total posts: 743
SILVER Member since Mar 2001
Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
Location: South Lake Tahoe, USA
Total posts: 743
Posted:
I have great respect for the job that the administration does in moderating this site. I never intended any criticizm that was anything but constructive. This is the best website on the web, which is why I keep coming back. And also why I'm so passionate about protecting it.
I look forward to a warmer and friendlier HoP and will certainly contribute to acheiveing that goal.
Hear Hear
When things get Poopy I Slip away for a bit, however I will always come back to check up on ya-all. I agree The EGO is a driving force here, and can run ramped with little to nothing to back it up. Nothing but Hear-Say. But Once and a while I find some Great things being said , and it brings it all back down to the True reason we are here @ HOP... For the Love of the Fire, and the Dance.
Keep the Fire Alive, but try not to burn others.
~Fire Spirit
I have great respect for the job that the administration does in moderating this site. I never intended any criticizm that was anything but constructive. This is the best website on the web, which is why I keep coming back. And also why I'm so passionate about protecting it.
I look forward to a warmer and friendlier HoP and will certainly contribute to acheiveing that goal.
Hear Hear
When things get Poopy I Slip away for a bit, however I will always come back to check up on ya-all. I agree The EGO is a driving force here, and can run ramped with little to nothing to back it up. Nothing but Hear-Say. But Once and a while I find some Great things being said , and it brings it all back down to the True reason we are here @ HOP... For the Love of the Fire, and the Dance.
Keep the Fire Alive, but try not to burn others.
~Fire Spirit
FIRE IS ALIVE!
IT LIVES AND BREATHS!
IT CONSUMES, AND DISTROYS!
BUT WE CONTROL IT,
AND DANCE WITH FIRE!!
Posted:Ladies and Gents, not to start a debate or argument or anything to that effect, NYC had every right to say what he did. Not only do I deserve it, but I started this in public, he had every right to reply in public. I didn't like everything that he said, but the truth hurts sometimes don't it?
I wish there was a way that I could show everyone the way that NYC and myself think towards eachother. Neither one of us hates the other, we sure as hell get frustrated, but there is a decore there that is beneath the surface. In a way we understand eachother and we both have some damn thick skin when it comes to eachothers actions.
Please don't think ill of him if you disagree with how and what he said. Maybe I should have said things in private, maybe I was right in what I did. Either way NYC is completly in his rights to say what he did and how he did.
Mods... ream him a new two or maybe three... for old times sake
~EDIT~ The above is all my opinoin and though what he said and what I have said numourous times in the past was against the site rules, in my opinoin he was right to say what he did and how he did. If you have any question please see the following link http://www.homeofpoi.com/guidelines.htm
EDITED_BY: Raymund Phule (Fireproof) (1075159546)
I wish there was a way that I could show everyone the way that NYC and myself think towards eachother. Neither one of us hates the other, we sure as hell get frustrated, but there is a decore there that is beneath the surface. In a way we understand eachother and we both have some damn thick skin when it comes to eachothers actions.
Please don't think ill of him if you disagree with how and what he said. Maybe I should have said things in private, maybe I was right in what I did. Either way NYC is completly in his rights to say what he did and how he did.
Mods... ream him a new two or maybe three... for old times sake
~EDIT~ The above is all my opinoin and though what he said and what I have said numourous times in the past was against the site rules, in my opinoin he was right to say what he did and how he did. If you have any question please see the following link http://www.homeofpoi.com/guidelines.htm
EDITED_BY: Raymund Phule (Fireproof) (1075159546)
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
Deleteflash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001
![flash fire]()
Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Total posts: 2758
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001
Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Total posts: 2758
Posted:That's great - thanks Ray.
However I think that with your recent post, everything that has needed to be said has been said and this thread has come to a lovely conclusion.
We are all happy and aiming to display more respect on HOP.
The End
*members walk off into sunset, hand in hand*
However I think that with your recent post, everything that has needed to be said has been said and this thread has come to a lovely conclusion.
We are all happy and aiming to display more respect on HOP.
The End
*members walk off into sunset, hand in hand*
HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.
Posted:Quote:
PS. I'm gonna go spin some poi now. Does anyone else still do that?
Not at the moment. Its way too wet and cold in Paris at the moment!
Raph
PS. I'm gonna go spin some poi now. Does anyone else still do that?
Not at the moment. Its way too wet and cold in Paris at the moment!
Raph
Delete
Posted:Boy, it's so warm here.
here are my views on taking in posts.
It's all opinion, so take it or leave it. Simple.
If someone gets up your nose, first thing to do would be to read the tone of the offenders other posts and find out what they're like. If they're never in Help or Intros and just big up themselves all day in moves and technical, then you know what to do with their input.
Also remember that some members may be a lot younger and hastier than you. For instance I'm 29 next week and I tend to either drop one-liners or ramble for a page. There are some really young people on this board, and if you met them socially and set to your face your views were up to S##T then you would just pay them out for being snotty insolent little buggers. But in writing & Anon. it looks more cutting and personal.
Generally speaking, HOP is one the better boards on the net for the main reason that twirlers have lives. Go find a politics student board and then tell me Hoppers are windbags! By comparison, HOP actually has something to give it's community.
Back in my day (when I signed on in 2001) there were less of these situations, but there were also less than 1000 members. Realise that not all HOP posters are even twirlers. I have my doubts about the claims some poeople are making about their skills on this board. Habitual lying is far easier online
To see a board full of nobs, se Virtual Tourist for some badly inaccurate tourist advice. Like the chick who listed a known croc infested creek as safe to swim in.
here are my views on taking in posts.
It's all opinion, so take it or leave it. Simple.
If someone gets up your nose, first thing to do would be to read the tone of the offenders other posts and find out what they're like. If they're never in Help or Intros and just big up themselves all day in moves and technical, then you know what to do with their input.
Also remember that some members may be a lot younger and hastier than you. For instance I'm 29 next week and I tend to either drop one-liners or ramble for a page. There are some really young people on this board, and if you met them socially and set to your face your views were up to S##T then you would just pay them out for being snotty insolent little buggers. But in writing & Anon. it looks more cutting and personal.
Generally speaking, HOP is one the better boards on the net for the main reason that twirlers have lives. Go find a politics student board and then tell me Hoppers are windbags! By comparison, HOP actually has something to give it's community.
Back in my day (when I signed on in 2001) there were less of these situations, but there were also less than 1000 members. Realise that not all HOP posters are even twirlers. I have my doubts about the claims some poeople are making about their skills on this board. Habitual lying is far easier online
To see a board full of nobs, se Virtual Tourist for some badly inaccurate tourist advice. Like the chick who listed a known croc infested creek as safe to swim in.
UYI 
OLDSKOOL
Posted:Because I moved it, I am bumping it again.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
Posted:Quote:
*BUMP*
This seems to be needed at the moment.
Great. Now the 99% of people who don't look at the dates of posts think that I took another shot at Ray.
Fantastic.
Folks, this thread is old, the players involved in the debate are no longer involved in the discussion and the problems brought about it have been solved.
The only current relevance to this particular thread is the title and the initial sentiment.
*BUMP*
This seems to be needed at the moment.
Great. Now the 99% of people who don't look at the dates of posts think that I took another shot at Ray.
Fantastic.
Folks, this thread is old, the players involved in the debate are no longer involved in the discussion and the problems brought about it have been solved.
The only current relevance to this particular thread is the title and the initial sentiment.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Posted:I dont want to upset anyone and this is not directed at you, but most of the people in this thread seem to think that it only applies to someone else...some other person is to blame for this disrespect. (If you dont know, im not feeling much respect right now)
I admit it, iv lost it quite afew times, iv disrespected people and ruined their threads. Im sorry, and ill try really hard not to let it happen again. Respect to everyone. I just hope you can find a little in yourself.
(This has nothing to do with anything, its just and example) but when i first came here afew yrs ago, i really thought Ray was an @ss. For along time i couldnt understand why people put up with him, but after awhile i started to understand him and his belief's. Now it didnt mean i have to like him, but i respected him for his strong belief's and others also.
That is what i learnt about hop. To me its about accepting people and their ideas and beliefs even if they go against what you think...that to me is true respect.
Sorry but everyone here needs to pull their head in, including myself. Im starting now...
I admit it, iv lost it quite afew times, iv disrespected people and ruined their threads. Im sorry, and ill try really hard not to let it happen again. Respect to everyone. I just hope you can find a little in yourself.
(This has nothing to do with anything, its just and example) but when i first came here afew yrs ago, i really thought Ray was an @ss. For along time i couldnt understand why people put up with him, but after awhile i started to understand him and his belief's. Now it didnt mean i have to like him, but i respected him for his strong belief's and others also.
That is what i learnt about hop. To me its about accepting people and their ideas and beliefs even if they go against what you think...that to me is true respect.
Sorry but everyone here needs to pull their head in, including myself. Im starting now...
Delete
Spanner
BRONZE Member since Feb 2003
![Spanner]()
remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere..., ...
Total posts: 2790
BRONZE Member since Feb 2003
remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere..., ...
Total posts: 2790
Posted:Quote:
Folks, this thread is old, the players involved in the debate are no longer involved in the discussion and the problems brought about it have been solved.
The only current relevance to this particular thread is the title and the initial sentiment.
I was hoping that this would be pointed out. Thanks NYC
Folks, this thread is old, the players involved in the debate are no longer involved in the discussion and the problems brought about it have been solved.
The only current relevance to this particular thread is the title and the initial sentiment.
I was hoping that this would be pointed out. Thanks NYC
"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.
yay,
:R"
Posted:Quote:
I don't want to upset anyone and this is not directed at you, but most of the people in this thread seem to think that it only applies to someone else...some other person is to blame for this disrespect. (If you dont know, im not feeling much respect right now)
Ug... This thread was entirely my fault. It served a purpose AT THE TIME. I spoke with moderators about it. I was threatened. I attoned for it. The discussion is over.
Anyone who has any further criticism of anything that occured BEFORE Dom bumped it up, please get into your time machine and go back to the time which it was relevant.
It is inappropriate to make accusations that are so severely dated that they are no longer relevant in the present context.
I think it is unfair to all of the players involved in this initial discussion (and certainly to Ray and I) for THIS thread to be bumped up as an example of the current lack of respect on HoP.
I don't want to upset anyone and this is not directed at you, but most of the people in this thread seem to think that it only applies to someone else...some other person is to blame for this disrespect. (If you dont know, im not feeling much respect right now)
Ug... This thread was entirely my fault. It served a purpose AT THE TIME. I spoke with moderators about it. I was threatened. I attoned for it. The discussion is over.
Anyone who has any further criticism of anything that occured BEFORE Dom bumped it up, please get into your time machine and go back to the time which it was relevant.
It is inappropriate to make accusations that are so severely dated that they are no longer relevant in the present context.
I think it is unfair to all of the players involved in this initial discussion (and certainly to Ray and I) for THIS thread to be bumped up as an example of the current lack of respect on HoP.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Posted:Sry NYC but i think this thread (although dated) is the perfect example of what is happening RIGHT NOW at hop.
I dont think you read what i just posted...well noone ever does...
I dont think you read what i just posted...well noone ever does...
Delete
Posted:
Quote:
Sry NYC but i think this thread (although dated) is the perfect example of what is happening RIGHT NOW at hop.
nope. Its in the past.
NYC is gentle soul, who is intelligent and doesnt stand for any crap. He has the right to stand up for himself. Thats what he did. It is OVER and has no bearing on todays HOP. These are two seprate issues and should be treated as such.
NYC
Quote:
Sry NYC but i think this thread (although dated) is the perfect example of what is happening RIGHT NOW at hop.
nope. Its in the past.
NYC is gentle soul, who is intelligent and doesnt stand for any crap. He has the right to stand up for himself. Thats what he did. It is OVER and has no bearing on todays HOP. These are two seprate issues and should be treated as such.
NYCTAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"
DeletePosted:It is not about NYC. It is not about Ray. To bring up more than once that this is an old thread is not necessary.
And this thread never was about them until a bit of hijacking happened.
And it is not the point right now.
The thread is about treatment of fellow HoPpers and this board.
We have had to research and/or ban more people since the beginning of this year than all the other years of HoP combined.
We are working our best to keep this a place of welcome and peace, however, we all have families (or are expecting them), businesses and lives beyond these boards, but lately it seems that we have to work double time on here. A reminder about respect is *EXACTLY* what it needed and I fully support Dom for bringing up an old thread so we wouldn't have to write another novel (which I believe ended up happening anyway).
To those who have been respectful and helpful, thank you. It is appreciated beyond words.
Pele
And this thread never was about them until a bit of hijacking happened.
And it is not the point right now.
The thread is about treatment of fellow HoPpers and this board.
We have had to research and/or ban more people since the beginning of this year than all the other years of HoP combined.
We are working our best to keep this a place of welcome and peace, however, we all have families (or are expecting them), businesses and lives beyond these boards, but lately it seems that we have to work double time on here. A reminder about respect is *EXACTLY* what it needed and I fully support Dom for bringing up an old thread so we wouldn't have to write another novel (which I believe ended up happening anyway).
To those who have been respectful and helpful, thank you. It is appreciated beyond words.
Pele
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
Posted:Well clearly has SOMETHING to do with me since my name has been used in every post on this page so far.
I think that this post was actually an historic one because it did bring about a decent amount of change in both ideals and specific change in moderator policy. There were countless threads (that could be bumped up) that went untouched (which were far more offensive) at the time this one was written.
My original intent in redirecting this thread was to bring to light what I felt were offensive behaviors. I understand my decision at the time because it was a period where HoP was admittedly undermoderated and I was attempting to openly defend my friends who had been repeatedly attacked openly. I feel that my actions at the time did exactly what I had intended, which was to force the enforcement of the very same HoP rules which I was purposely breaking. I was tired of passively letting someone else be a tyrant.
In retrospect, despite being effective, this was not the best course of action. It was inappropriate and against the rules.
The moderators have, thankfully, taken on a much more effective role since then. Today a thread like this one would be nipped in the bud much earlier and I'm appreciative for that.
It is because of their hard work that I no longer feel that my comments in the earlier portion of this thread are relevant or necessary.
Which is all I was trying to say in the first place.
I think that this post was actually an historic one because it did bring about a decent amount of change in both ideals and specific change in moderator policy. There were countless threads (that could be bumped up) that went untouched (which were far more offensive) at the time this one was written.
My original intent in redirecting this thread was to bring to light what I felt were offensive behaviors. I understand my decision at the time because it was a period where HoP was admittedly undermoderated and I was attempting to openly defend my friends who had been repeatedly attacked openly. I feel that my actions at the time did exactly what I had intended, which was to force the enforcement of the very same HoP rules which I was purposely breaking. I was tired of passively letting someone else be a tyrant.
In retrospect, despite being effective, this was not the best course of action. It was inappropriate and against the rules.
The moderators have, thankfully, taken on a much more effective role since then. Today a thread like this one would be nipped in the bud much earlier and I'm appreciative for that.
It is because of their hard work that I no longer feel that my comments in the earlier portion of this thread are relevant or necessary.
Which is all I was trying to say in the first place.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Posted:I have to say though, aside from thanks for noticing, that it is also largely due to the fact that people are using the notify the mods buttons far more than they ever did before.
The board wasn't unmoderated, we had a hard time keeping up and people did not seem to help.
Now they are and it is an absolute tremendous help when we get those "Hey check this out messages".
So..ummm...thanks.
P~
The board wasn't unmoderated, we had a hard time keeping up and people did not seem to help.
Now they are and it is an absolute tremendous help when we get those "Hey check this out messages".
So..ummm...thanks.
P~
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
Posted:Quote:
The beauty of these boards is that you do not have to answer every post or thread.
Why didn't I intervene 3 months ago (I can only speak for myself and not for other mods, and while we are under no obligation to really explain ourselves to anyone but Malcolm and people we are dealing with, I will clue you in)? Because I was able to check the boards maybe 2x per week in November due to my real life taking over, and if a thread sounded like anything political, I didn't check it. The thread you referred to, I never saw until today.
Kindest Regards,
Pele
Sorry Pele, I'd have never suggested that the boards were undermoderated had you not made the above statement. It wasn't an accuation, I thought it was a consious decision (one which I actually approved of.)
Just clarifying.
The beauty of these boards is that you do not have to answer every post or thread.
Why didn't I intervene 3 months ago (I can only speak for myself and not for other mods, and while we are under no obligation to really explain ourselves to anyone but Malcolm and people we are dealing with, I will clue you in)? Because I was able to check the boards maybe 2x per week in November due to my real life taking over, and if a thread sounded like anything political, I didn't check it. The thread you referred to, I never saw until today.
Kindest Regards,
Pele
Sorry Pele, I'd have never suggested that the boards were undermoderated had you not made the above statement. It wasn't an accuation, I thought it was a consious decision (one which I actually approved of.)
Just clarifying.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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