Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:Well, I've been pondering about these for a long time...

Emei piercers are an ancient chinese weapon which consist basically of a metal rod, with a spike on each end, a pivot in the middle and finger loops on the pivot. They are designed to be used for any (well, most) open hand form when they are gripped/worn in the palm of the hand and basically act as a dagger of sorts.

The cunning thing being - you can give them a flick and basically palm spin them (in any plane) as fast as you like. I don't think there are any practical martial applications for this - but it looks quite cool biggrin

So why not put mini wicks on the end of each spike and set them on fire? Admittedly there wouldn't be many "moves" you could do with them, so you'd have to know some forms and use your imagination - but it could look quite impressive as they spin at quite a speed and so you'd have big firey discs surrounding your hands.

Bender might know about them being the MA guru that he is smile

here's a pic of some

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
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Posted:wow that would be crazy hot.
as with swords, it rules out all stances where your weapon is pointed downwards, lest your hand needeth frying (all of my recent fire non-leg injuries occur because of this - please take a lesson from my idiocy :/ )


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mech
mech

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Location: "In your ear"
Member Since: 9th Jun 2003
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Posted:bender a fool.....

*pauses and waits and thinks*


no i cant see that!

i like this idea, but id say hav them with detacable fire core, so that you can practice with them die and then take them to fire?

i would love to see what the pics of these would look like, so if you do make some, can you let me see?

laterdays


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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
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Total posts: 5688
Posted:Hmmm, good point Bender - never thought about the whole "flames go up" thing...
I guess if you just didn't hold and "point down" stancs you'd be ok.

I'm not planning to make any in the near future - I currently can't do any Kung Fu as both my feet are hurting quite a lot after having lots of skin taken off them which makes walking painful and Cat stances impossible - none of this conditioning malarky for me wink

Would be simple to make mind you and you wouldn't need/want big wicks.


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darkpoet
darkpoet

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Location: Dallas.........ish
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Posted:ive know what your talking about
but i think doing an emei would be pointless with fire
they spin so that when you get one side bloody after stabbing somebody you can bloody the other side
the blood lubricates the spike and makes it slide into the body more easily
it also spins for the various attack positions so you can attack while blocking
and vice versa............using it as a fire toy.........dont think that would be too smart at all and youd be extremely limited in what you could do with it.......unless your very, very good..... umm


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Durbs
Durbs

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Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
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Posted:Well, assuming I wasn't going to stab anyone, I reckon you could just use oil to lubricate it... eek

I don't think it would get that hot - I've been doing some fire contact juggling where the flame is about 2cm from my skin the whole time, and that's only warm.

I just think it would look really nice to have 2 discs of fire in each hand combined with the elegance of Kung Fu (not that I look elegant yet, but give me time smile )

You could vary it away from Kung Fu - throw in some horizontal palm spins, weave motions with your arms, long arm stuff etc.

Hmmm - I think I might see what I've got in my garage and knock some practice ones up smile


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Astar
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
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Posted:I was watching this show about south african prisons and some life sentenced prisoner was talking about how those are his faviroute weapon. He said he fought off 5 guys once with them and he acted it out excitedly for the camera.


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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:I used to think that putting a little hole in the middle of your staff and havinf a pin on a ring on your hand you could do some spooky open handed vertical spins, i guess this is the same thing but permanatly attached. no reason you cant use the pricipal for a bigger stick.

T wave


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darkpoet
darkpoet

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Location: Dallas.........ish
Member Since: 14th May 2003
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Posted:astar...theres a reason that theyve lasted so long in martial arts
they are brutally effective when used properly and cause your attacks to pack quite a punch
pm me if you want to know where to get emei 's and judges pens
as well as a broad variety of other asian weapons like deer antlers...horse knives...etc

but i still think itd be pointless to turn them into a fire toy.....id do liquid w\them,...put them on upside down....=P but yeah...thats prolly it ubbloco


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Durbs
Durbs

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Posted:Quote:
but i still think itd be pointless to turn them into a fire toy.....



We won't know until we try smile

Even easier than fire would be wack a glowstick/rav'n on each end - Sort of laser-disc effect biggrin


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darkpoet
darkpoet

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Posted:thatd be really cool but do you know how to use them??
if you dont why dont you try stripping a motor off of one of those disco balls or some sort of fast rotating motor to make it quite literally a spinnin disk...if properly done you could be coming up w\the beginnings of a new style...unless of course its already been done.........but yeas...also if you could turn the connection btw the ring and the emei to some sort of chain or a ball joint....youd get a stiff rotation but w\ the chain it would be.....interesting....and anybody ever thing of doing a fire kama??
wheres bender when you need him..or a chain kama...forgot the name..but yeas


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Durbs
Durbs

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Posted:Someone mentioned fire kama a while back. I seem to remeber they just wacked some wick on the back of a blade, got it wrong and gave themself a nasty cut eek D'oh!

If you were to use a motor thing you'd only go one way and couldn't stop them. With the piercers you can stop and change direction of spin pretty easily.

If only I could walk properly, it wasn't freezing outside and I had a pair I'd be out there now...


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darkpoet
darkpoet

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Posted:whoever was doing fire w\ a kama that had a sharp metal blade in the first place
is an idiot (if they didnt know what they are doing..which i am under the assumption of)
if your going to do fire at all you have to take the necessary precautions
when you experimenting w\ a new idea....then u have to be 120 times more cautious so that you dont end up making a mess of yourself........
and who in their right mind would be using a bladed weapon like the kama, put fire on it, when they dont know what their doing...............you NEVER start out using a full trad. made katana....you start w\ a shinai or a bokken...and learn...ugh...its this type of thing that makes fire performances in general considered a "daredevil act" instead of a very unique and beautiful art form mad

anyways... on the motor idea...if you install a push switch that reverses the polarity of the power on the motor..it will switch directions........kinda like if youve ever put a 9 volt to a small electric engine....then switch the poles connecting to the engine...it goes in a different direction.......but it was just an idea....in mad need of refining spank


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Durbs
Durbs

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Posted:I think they knew how to use it, just misjudged the effects of extra weight and stuff...

Anyhoo - all this switch and battery stuff seems a bit of an overkill in terms of just "not using emei's" technology.


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Evildman
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Posted:[NX?] I actually already use some interesting looking vertical spins in my staff routines, without any additional hardware at all. Admittedly I only do 1-3 roations at a time. However for my style any more than this in the middle of a performance would look out of place.



Doing them is just a matter of getting enough spin in the vertical plane and basically doing a palm spin, just as you would in the horizontal plane. In my case for all palm spins I tend to balance the staff at the base of my fingers, so changes in planes, just require slightly different hand positions.



I normally do these as I am coming out of a BTB pass. I just put a bit of extra spin to them as I bring them around the front, and do a Vertical spin in a flat plane in front of me. sometimes I even tranfer to the other hand and do another one before moving on. It does tend to confuse audiences as well:)


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LetumLux
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Member Since: 25th Sep 2003
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Posted:Quote:
a chain kama...forgot the name..



Kusari-gama is the item I believe you mean.

I'd suggest making mock-Emei first, perhaps. Sort of how poi users sometimes starts with strings and socks during the learning process so as not to damage themselves too much. See if it's a viable fire toy, graduate to LED/Glowstick lighted... if you think it will work out for you, maybe try it with fire. If not, then you still have a glow-stick version that looks as cool, and without the extra cost of fuel.


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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
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Posted:waaaaay ahead of ya there EvilD wink

me and charlie discussed that a while ago on the old board, but yes, its a good one for confusing the auidence. mine was just an idle thought i had around the same time, seems to have slipped through tho....

T wave


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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:sadly the most vertical my palming gets is diagonally - i never quite get quite 90 degrees to the horizon.
t'would help if the audience sat on an angle smile


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Pyro_Fire_Hazard
Pyro_Fire_Hazard

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Location: New York City
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Posted:I just say go for it! Get some glow sticks, try it out! Then if it looks good, go for wicking! You might be on to something! Don't listen to dem foo's!

Pyro [The Fire Hazard]
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Evildman
Evildman

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Location: Oregon
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Posted:Bender - Actually this move can be thought of as closer to a throw than a true palmspin. All of the work/motion is done in moving the staff into this move, and releasing with a lot of extra rotation. The hand is there partially to guide the stick, but more often just to really confuse the audience as to where the spin itself is coming from.

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musashii
musashii

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Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 14th Dec 2002
Total posts: 1148
Posted:saw these for the first time in an old competition tonite eek

perfect for lighting up I say, make sure you get some good bearings eh wink


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