Page: 1234
NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Hopefully this will serve to entertain someone who is dreadfully bored at work. Unfortunately, it's an extremely long post and has little to no point at all. Do with it what you will. And if you're not dreadfully bored and stuck at work with nothing productive to do... for the love of God, click on another post.

Every now and then I have a deep thought that I feel like throwing at HoP... just to see how it bounces back.

Growing up I'd always loved working with kids. I still enjoy playing with 'toys' but more importantly, I've always had a very protective personality when it comes to folks younger than me. In High School I remember all of my friends telling me how great a dad I would be and I was looking forward to having kids. But recently something changed.

I've been really happy the last few years. I've gained an optimism in life. I'm having a great time. I know that some things suck in life, but I've been enjoying the little things more and appreciating the time that I'm alive. After breaking up with my most recent girlfriend I had a very strange sense of relief. I realized that I didn't want to go down that path anymore. I'd recently started thinking about kids as (what my buddy calls) "A huge administrative hassle."

Ya'see, I already have TONS of fulfilling daily interactions with kids. I teach High School for those of you who don't know. I love my interactions with my students. But I also love the fact that, when the day is done, I can go HOME. I feel that because I am a teacher I UNDERSTAND a bit more of what it's like to be around kids all day. I know it's different having MY kids... I know I'd be a great Dad. I have infinite patience with children and am utterly responsible. I get along great with kids and would gladly give my life to save one. Unfortunately, just because you'd be good at something, doesn't mean you should do it.

But then I started asking myself: How great would it be if I didn't have to have kids? How great would it be if I found someone who just wanted to be with me... and we could be together and do silly romantic things all the time without being bound to the overwhelming responsibility of having a kid? I DEFINITELY want to get married and am utterly romantic at heart. The thought of actually meeting a woman who DIDN'T want to have kids was really exciting. In fact, the idea that I didn't have to have kids at all made me really happy. And that thought within it self sealed the deal:

I don't want kids.

You'd think that'd be the end of a very long post, but no... what I was really surprised by was how much of a freak that decision has made me. I had no idea. I even looked at the data from the 2000 census. 86% of Americans between 35 and 45 already had kids. Add another few percent for those who have their kids above 35 and we're looking at like 90% of the general population who will have kids before they die. Figure a low estimate that 5% of the general population is gay and doesn't want kids (understanding that there are gay families but they'd be in the 86%) and maybe 5% have fertility issues that keep them childless and chose not to adopt. So who does that leave me to marry and not have kids with?

Nobody.

I know that a few of you are going to chime in and say "I don't want kids either" but you're wrong. You'll meet the right guy/girl, graduate from High School ( wink ) and then change your mind.

And this crosses all socioeconomic boundaries as well. My totally crazy, drug-addct, psycho-pyromaniac acquaintances are like "Dude, you don't want kids? That's messed up!!"

I really gotta wrap up this ultralong post so I'll just throw some points out there:

1) It's sad how many people instinctively 'settle down' and have kids without thinking of the huge repercussions or even contemplate the OPTION of not having kids.

2) I'm AMAZED by how FEW people chose NOT to have kids. The statistic that only 14% of 35 - 45 year olds DIDN'T already have kids TOTALLY floored me.

OK, thanks for listening.

Feedback? Thoughs? Drawings? Interpretive Dance? ubbangel


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete Topic

NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Quote:
So here's my question for those of you who are vehemently anti-having kids: what would happen if you accidentally got pregnant or got someone pregnant.





As unromantic as it sounds, I think it's important to have a pregame conversation. I have discussed it with every serious partner that I've had and an answer to that question.... oh crap.. the bell to start 4th period just rang...



TO be completed (and edited to make it pretty)

EDITED_BY: NYC (1075479665)


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

spritie
spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX
Member Since: 9th Sep 2001
Total posts: 2014
Posted:Having been there once already in my life, I can say that I chose to give my daughter up for adoption. However, that was not my initial choice. I had just started college, had just moved to a town where I knew nobody, and was at least a 5 hour drive from any of my old high school friends, and my parents had just moved from TX to FL (I stayed in TX). I really was planning on aborting this baby, but by the time I got up the nerve/courage/guts to find an abortion clinic in this new place, I was 1 week further along than legally permissible in the state of TX. I could still get one technically in Kansas though.

Especially after having been a pregnant college student and had people talking about me instead of to me, I am 100% for abortion. It takes a strong person to be able to live for 6 months with only 2 people who even bother to talk to you on campus.

That said, do I regret waiting so long? Not in the long run. My body handles pregnancy well - I don't know what morning sickness is, and I have no stretch marks to speak of. I felt absolutely no discomfort, and labor lasted all of 2 hours. I am glad that I was able to help out a family that could not bear children of their own for one reason or another. I actually never felt like my daughter was mine in the first place - maybe that is because I never planned on keeping her, I don't really know. What I do know is that it was extrememly strange to hold my child when it didn't really feel like she was mine, although she came out of me only minutes before.

That was just over 11 years. Today, I would probably have it, depending on who the father was. If it was from some one night stand or some guy I could no longer tolerate, I'd probably choose to abort it. If I was at all friendly with the father though, I would certainly discuss options with him since I'm at an age where either myself or any guy I date ought to be able to handle the responsibility of raising a child. The father 11 years ago was in on all decisions made, and pretty much the only one we knew for certain was that we could not feasibly drop out of college to raise a child. Heck, we weren't even going to the same college, but he did stick with me, and drove me to the hospital when I went into labor.

Now, if I knew my child had severe defects? I'm with vanize on this one. I'd abort it, and probably for very similar reasons he had.


Delete

pounce
pounce

All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all a...
Member Since: 10th Jan 2003
Total posts: 9831
Posted:wow, heavy topics.

ok, i am 100% absolutely vehemently pro-choice. could i have an abortion myself? i honestly do not know. i'm with NYC on this one, in that i try to make sure to have that talk before hand. i need to know my partner is going to be supportive and work with me on the decision at the time. at this moment in my life, i'm close enough to the end of my internship that i could probably have a child without it interfering. however, that would seriously delay my post-doc and, as a result, my licensure. so i'd probably lean towards getting an abortion. but to be completely honest, it would also depend on who the father was. there is only one person in this world that i have honestly considered having children with, and i would think twice if he was the father before deciding on an abortion.

now would i abort a child i knew had a health defect that would hurt the child? that's a lot harder for me to answer. it some respects, it would depend on what the defect or disease is. are they going to be born only to be in pain for a few short years and then die? then probably yes. a big part of me leans towards abortion is most cases of health defects or diseases, but then i start to get into A Brave New World mode and start to fear that we're going to be selecting only the "best" human beings, and i get uneasy and scared about screwing with nature. so i dunno.


I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

**giggles**

Delete

Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:Yup, yup, discussion is very important. Now, lets look at the difference between my two most recent bfs:

1.
You should get the child aborted. You have no right to be adding to the overpopulation of the world. I will help you pay for half the abortion costs/realted medical costs. I will not help you if you choose to let the pregnancy run to term, probably. Maybe if you choose to get it adopted. I will probably break up with you if you become pregnant. I will probably run away physically financially and emotionally. I will have nothing to do with you if you choose to keep the baby.

I mean, its honest, but dear god!


2.
Its your choice. Its still your choice. You cannot make me tell you my preference on the subject. I do not want to be a father at this time, I think that a uni student is not the best father and plenty of people want to adopt. If you choose to carry the baby, I will help you. Even if for some reason i go crazy and stop liking you it is my responsibility to make sure you get started off on a good foot without me, and with whatever you want to do with the baby. I'll support you in whatever decision you choose to the best of my ability. If we need to, I can get a car, I can get the money. Don't worry about it. If you have no other resources you can stay with me. You can have my bed, I'll sleep on a mattress in my living room.

Now, I just wonder, what on earth makes the difference between these people? Its like night and day, its so weird. What would you do, guys., if you didn't want kids and ur gf was pregnant?


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

Delete

Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Quote:
That said, do I regret waiting so long? Not in the long run. My body handles pregnancy well - I don't know what morning sickness is, and I have no stretch marks to speak of. I felt absolutely no discomfort, and labor lasted all of 2 hours. I am glad that I was able to help out a family that could not bear children of their own for one reason or another. I actually never felt like my daughter was mine in the first place - maybe that is because I never planned on keeping her, I don't really know. What I do know is that it was extrememly strange to hold my child when it didn't really feel like she was mine, although she came out of me only minutes before.




Wow. Really, wow. That's so strong of you. I can't imagine not instantly falling in love with the baby and deciding to keep it. Did you get to meet her birth mothers?

I remember being involved in the delivery of two children who were to go to adoption. One converted to emergency Cesarian section. I think that at the time, I was too exhausted on my rotation to really feel emotions, but in retrospect, I remember the emotions in a very powerful way. Neither mother cried. But the dysemmetry between the cries of a new-born child and the seeming indifference of the parents (both times, both parents were there for it) was powerful in a way I can't describe.

It's so interesting to hear the story from a patient's perspective. Both were in similar situations to you. College or late high scool women who had had accidents. One was the "abstinence" baby that I like to talk about.

I...uh...wow. I can't even put in words how much I respect you for doing that. hug hug

weavesmiley


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete

vanize
vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:If you really get to know spritie, you'll have a better understanding of all this. she is not a normal person. I'm not saying that in a positive or negative way, but she definitely isn't normal.

-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

Delete

spritie
spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX
Member Since: 9th Sep 2001
Total posts: 2014
Posted:Thanks Lightning...You've made me all warm & fuzzy inside. hug


Quote:
Wow. Really, wow. That's so strong of you. I can't imagine not instantly falling in love with the baby and deciding to keep it. Did you get to meet her birth mothers?




As far as the last question goes, I did not get to meet her adoptive parents. I was supposed to, but since I delivered 2 weeks early, that sort of threw a wrench into the plans. I actually remember choosing the parents from 5 couples over the phone. All I remember about them is that they were a british couple now living in the states, and they liked opera. Music was important to both the father and I, and that was the only choice given to us that liked any form. In retrospect, I wish I had asked for more choices, but in the long run I don't think it would have made any difference.

As far as what vanize said, uhm...He made my nice warm, fuzzy feeling disapper frown


Delete

Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Spritie,

The people who I love best in this world are not normal people.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete

telic
I don't want a title.

Member Since: 26th Jun 2003
Total posts: 940
Posted:First off, I'm with NYC and pounce - I have that pre-game conversation with serious partners.

But personally, at least at this point in my life, if I accidentally got pregnant I would get an abortion. It wouldn't be an enjoyable emotional experience, but for me it would be the lesser evil.

My reasons:

1. I am halfway through law school and well on my way towards a stressful and time-consuming career. I simply cannot imagine being able to finish school while pregnant. It takes a lot out of me as is, and I'm in good health with few things to distract my attention. I refuse to risk having to leave school and delay or destroy my plans of being an attorney.

2. I do not want children. And yet, I would not want someone else to raise my child, much as I never allow an editor to have the last say when it comes to my writing. A Catch-22 avoidable by abortion.

3. I do not want to endure pregnancy, physically speaking. I do not want my body irrevocably changed. I do not want to endure a C-section (highly likely, given my family history) and remain scarred. I do not want more stretch marks. I do not to gain weight I am unlikely to lose (family history, again). I do not want to lactate. And I am willing to sacrifice a fetus to avoid those things. I would kill an adult who tried to subject my body to those changes against my will, too.


E pluribus unum, baby.

Delete

Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Spritie, take Regyt, for example. If she's normal then I'm a brown banana. hug

(Love ya, Regyt!)


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete

bubblishis
False Eyelash
Location: New York City
Member Since: 27th Dec 2003
Total posts: 346
Posted:Yeah the pre-preg chat is important but I think that's more to make sure he and I are on the same page, rather than to formulate a game plan. Honestly, even if you agreed to abort or adopt or whatever before the fact, wouldn't all of that change in the moment?

I'm turning 30 in a few weeks (whoa. I'm turning 30....) and I feel like I'm getting a little old for "mistakes" like that. Meaning...if I got pregnant and had an abortion I'd feel like a jackass. I have too much education and too much life experience and none of the excuses I had at 18 or even 23.

And - by the way - weirdos are the best. hug



All the freaky people make the beauty of the world.

Delete

Rozi
100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted:Mmmmmm synchronicity. I have been pondering this thread for a time without actually posting. Now I am ready to put something down in writing, here we are a point in the conversation that relates to what I wanted to talk about.

First things first. The answer to "do you want kids?". The answer for me is an honest "I don't know". When I was younger it was so important to know the answers to questions like that. And because I didn't identify with the people who said they wanted children more than anything else, the answer for me was "I don't want kids". I felt my lack of maternal feelings at that time meant I didn't want kids. I still don't have those feelings. But because in this regard I am operating solely on feelings and not on a more strongly voiced opinionI recognise that circumstances may arise where I want kids. (The basic message of this is "I may change my mind", but please remember, this is just about me and no one else.)

I have thought a lot about this (and still come up with "I don't know" as my answer). And I think one of the things that will affect the way I feel will be my partner. Not just in a "will he stick around in an unplanned pregnancy situation".

I don't know what shape my relationship with my life partner will take yet. I know that we will create it ourselves, with its own rules, but it will be a process of negotiation between us. And one of the things we will decide is whether "we" have children.

I can imagine very different, very healthy and very fulfilling relationships that I may have. And in some of them we would choose not to have children and be very happy.

This is where people usually shout out "but what do you want? What if you change your mind?". Maybe I will, maybe I won't. I will not give you definites on that either. But there is something in me that knows if I choose the relationship that is most fulfilling for me I will be happy with my decision about children, whatever that may be.

I hope that has explained my non-answer to the question. wink



It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

Delete

spritie
spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX
Member Since: 9th Sep 2001
Total posts: 2014
Posted:biggrin

Thanks Lightning (and Bubblishis). I'm back to feeling all warm and fuzzy! hug


Delete

spritie
spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX
Member Since: 9th Sep 2001
Total posts: 2014
Posted:biggrin

Thanks Lightning (and Bubblishis). I'm back to feeling all warm and fuzzy! hug

spank to vanize


Delete

vanize
vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:Quote:

As far as what vanize said, uhm...He made my nice warm, fuzzy feeling disapper frown




Oops! sorry! I didn't mean it like that. I just mean that you come from exceptional circumstances, and I think that makes your world view a bit different from most people's.

Bad me! spank


-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

Delete

telic
I don't want a title.

Member Since: 26th Jun 2003
Total posts: 940
Posted:Love ya too, Lightning m'dear. kiss


Quote:
I'm turning 30 in a few weeks (whoa. I'm turning 30....) and I feel like I'm getting a little old for "mistakes" like that. Meaning...if I got pregnant and had an abortion I'd feel like a jackass. I have too much education and too much life experience and none of the excuses I had at 18 or even 23.



Mistakes can happen to even those who are educated and experiences. Even when you use birth control every time, with every care and consummate skill, even if you belt-and-suspenders with condoms *and* the pill... your birth control can still fail. That constitutes a mistake beyond your control at 18 or 23 or 30 or older.


E pluribus unum, baby.

Delete

Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Imagine the shock of the lady I saw on my OB/GYN rotation who had a positive pregnancy test after missing a period.

She was so shocked because she had had her tubes tied.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete

pounce
pounce

All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all a...
Member Since: 10th Jan 2003
Total posts: 9831
Posted:ya that's the thing that a lot of people don't realize. there are older women, married women, who have accidental pregnancies and want to get abortions. it's not just young teenagers who are screwing around and not using protection.

I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

**giggles**

Delete

bubblishis
False Eyelash
Location: New York City
Member Since: 27th Dec 2003
Total posts: 346
Posted:Quote:

Mistakes can happen to even those who are educated and experiences. Even when you use birth control every time, with every care and consummate skill, even if you belt-and-suspenders with condoms *and* the pill... your birth control can still fail. That constitutes a mistake beyond your control at 18 or 23 or 30 or older.



I know. Youre totally right. And it's important not to get into a self-blame rut. I just feel like I'm too old to have an abortion in the event of an accident. How could i justify that? I mean I could support a kid (barely but still), I could get a bigger apt. Anyway, i'm just saying that it's hard to know in advance what you'd do in that kind of situation - even though you've had "a talk" with your partner.



All the freaky people make the beauty of the world.

Delete

Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:I've been waiting for NYC's promised post for a while now.

NYC? Ya wimpin' out on us? wink


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete

Page: 1234

Similar Topics

Using the keywords [having kid*] we found the following similar topics.
1. Forums > Moms, fire and kids [27 replies]
2. Forums > The Kids These Days! [43 replies]
3. Forums > The silly things that we are told as chidren! [67 replies]
4. Forums > On not having kids... [110 replies]
5. Forums > Having kids young- and society.... [27 replies]

     Show more..