Forums > Social Discussion > Can Paul Martin appease Bush?

Login/Join to Participate

ImmortalAngel
Scientist!
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Member Since: 19th Jan 2004
Total posts: 578
Posted:this was a news paper article in one of my local newspapers.. Paul Martin is Canada's Prime Minisiter for any of you who don't know.



Can PM appease Bush?


THOMAS WALKOM

Some refer to George W. Bush as another Hitler. This is a gross exaggeration. He has constructed no death camps and only one concentration camp at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

While it does seem, in Nuremberg terms, that Bush could be called a war criminal (invading other countries on the flimsiest of pretexts), he has not engaged in genocide. Nor, unlike Volkswagen supporter Hitler, does he promote the production of small, cheap cars.

True, both came to power constitutionally (although under dubious circumstances and with the support of only a minority of voters). True, both masterfully used traumatic events at home (the 1933 Reichstag fire for Hitler; 9/11 for Bush) to make a frightened and resentful populace accept restrictions on civil liberties.

True, also, that the U.S. leader shares Hitler's taste for military costumes although to be fair to the German dictator, he did serve on active duty in wartime.

But overall, the comparison is far from exact, lending credence to Karl Marx's famous comment that when history repeats itself, the first time is tragedy, the second, farce.

Still, for Canada and novice Prime Minister Paul Martin currently trying to engage Bush in Monterrey, Mexico there are certain similarities. Like central European nations of the 1930s, Canada finds itself next door to a powerful nation led by an unusually aggressive and perhaps slightly unhinged man. What to do?

It's generally forgotten now, but in the mid-'30s Hitler was not universally condemned as evil personified. Indeed, he had many admirers in Europe and North America people who lauded his "leadership," who lionized his moral certainty (no namby-pamby moral relativism there) and who either forgave, or actively applauded, what was then called anti-Semitism and today would be labelled racial profiling.

World leaders were wary and respectful. Canada's then-prime minister, Mackenzie King, confided in his diary after meeting Hitler in 1937 that the dictator was "one who truly loves his fellow men and his country and would make any sacrifice for their good ... a man of deep sincerity and a genuine patriot ... a teetotaller."

Yet even King, an ocean away from Germany, recognized that Hitler's ambitions could cause trouble. Consider the difficulties of Germany's small neighbours. Should they stay resolutely neutral and hope for the best (Belgium, Switzerland), sign onto Hitler's security agenda (Austria, Hungary, Romania) or rely on agreements with other nations (Poland, Czechoslovakia)?

These are the choices Canada faces with Bush's America. Former prime minister Jean Chrtien attempted the Swiss solution stay out of the aggressor's wars but continue to sell him whatever he needs. Hitler was comfortable with that level of tacit support. Bush appears to want more.

Martin seems to be veering to the Romanian model of more active support for Bush's military aims. I say "seems" because, as usual, Martin's actions to date have been rhetorical and procedural setting up new committees, making vague promises.

Indeed, those far more familiar with Paul Martin's thinking than I whisper that, at heart, the new Prime Minister is no different from Chrtien here. If so, rhetoric will dominate plus one or two substantive measures.

Like Chrtien, Martin will offer up the Canadian navy and special commando units to the U.S. (those interested in the level to which Canadian maritime forces are already under U.S. command should read Kelly Toughill's masterful piece in last Saturday's Star).

Like Chrtien, Martin will almost certainly sign onto Bush's missile defence scheme. Canada's hope, like that of Russia and Europe, is that missile defence will be harmless (it doesn't work), will provide juicy contracts for industry, and will focus Bush's attention away from invading small nations.

Will Martin go further? Leftish Liberals hope he will simply be a politer Chrtien: Don't join the aggressor's wars but don't call him a moron either.

Those on the right, including many of Martin's business supporters, want a version of the Austrian model: Anschluss (annexation) in everything but name. However, the U.S. has little interest in this so it's unlikely to happen.

Martin has vowed to keep the Canada-U.S. border open to commerce. This is an easy promise to keep since the Americans want that too. He said he would persuade the Americans to "respect" the Canadian passport. He won't get that. He may get an agreement on softwood lumber (which isn't up to Bush; even Hitler wasn't all-powerful). But Martin will get a lumber deal only if he gives the Americans everything they want.

My guess is that if Martin wants the U.S. president to like him, if he wants those coveted invitations to the ranch so useful for winning votes in Alberta, he will have to offer something more that Canada will have to be a little more Romania and a little less Switzerland.

Switzerland, of course, survived World War II intact. Romania did not.


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />

Delete Topic

Astar
member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Member Since: 8th Nov 2002
Total posts: 1591
Posted:A bit heavy on the hitler bush comparisons but anyways, I don't think martin will sell canada out to bad because theres a lot of people who wont vote for him. Unelected prime ministers know they need to tread very lightly.

I do admire him for encourageing debate in parliment, he seems to be trying to return canada to it's original model of democracy which has been twisted up pretty badly by assholes copying american politics.

I think no matter what he does he is loseing the election though.

BTW it's unlikely the us anti-missle program won't work, they have a pretty frightening plan this time around.


Delete

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Well if you can't say anything nice... the sad part is I can't say anything bad. I'll write again when I can figure out what the heck to say in reply to this article. I did enjoy reading it though.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Delete

Astar
member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Member Since: 8th Nov 2002
Total posts: 1591
Posted:*astar watches raymund go look up who the hell paul martin is

Delete

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Hehe, I thought I would just make ignorant statments based on what people had said in previous posts. But other than the Canadian PM I really dont know tongue smile



Lets Ask Jeves "who the hell Paul Martin is"...









(ehh I aint gonna edit this... seen as how I just replied to everything below)

EDITED_BY: Raymund Phule (Fireproof) (1074723771)


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Delete

Astar
member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Member Since: 8th Nov 2002
Total posts: 1591
Posted:he just got in due to a big mix up, I wouldn't expect any americans to know who he is.

Delete

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Quote:
I wouldn't expect any americans to know who he is.




Paul Martin the Liberal Party of Canada leader, newest PM for Canada. Recently he spoke on creating an amendment to the Patent Act to allow the export of AIDs drugs to third world countries.

He also believes that Canda will be a leader in "important technologies".

He believes that the capture of Saddam would "not only help restore peace, but be an important first step in rebuilding the country."



Your right Astar, I didn't know who he was, but I know a little bit now. Your comment was about as rude, ignorant and blatantly stupid as anything I have ever said. A man after my own heart, I didn't know you liked me that much to start copying me. ubblol


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Delete

Astar
member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Member Since: 8th Nov 2002
Total posts: 1591
Posted:what is rude about it? I didn't mean it in a derogatory way. I don't expect foreigners to know my nations politics, it's not their duty as a citizen of another nation to know what goes on in my nations routine politics..

Delete

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:It was the way it was said, not what was said. Perhaps it was just my take on it. Just how I heard you say it in my head, but man it sounded as if you were on some high horse and the rest of us "Americans" were your little peasants who didn't know their own arse from a hole in the ground.

(I have one hell of an imagination don't I? tongue )

If you really didn't mean for it to be rude, then I apologies and retract my statement.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Delete

bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:independently:

it reads rude.

anyone read the 'respect' thread in social? wink


i didn't know who paul martin was until this thread came up...

anyone know who the scottish first minister is?
(don't have to answer as unbelievably off topic...)

R wave


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

Delete

Astar
member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Member Since: 8th Nov 2002
Total posts: 1591
Posted:The scottish have a leader? I thought they were part of england and under their control.

*ducks*


Delete

wan hwo ren
wan hwo ren

member
Location: I'm not sure
Member Since: 27th Mar 2002
Total posts: 86
Posted:That comment didn't seem rude to me. I wouldn't expect any Americans (or non-canadians in general) to know who he is. He just got in, he wasn't elected though.

It certainly wouldn't mean that somebody was excessively ignorant if they don't know who Paul Martin is.

I can see how it might have seemed rude seen through the stereotype of Canadians as arrogant nationalists that always whine about Americans' ignorance of their country. Stereotypes go all directions, sometimes they're not easy to recognize.

The whole world knows about America, it is just impossible for Americans to know as much about the rest of the world. It pisses me off when people put down Americans for not knowing much about their country. Of course they could know more than they do, maybe their education system has major flaws, but so does Canada's as well as probably every other country. beerchug




Delete

Astar
member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Member Since: 8th Nov 2002
Total posts: 1591
Posted:It's funny you say "the stereotype of Canadians being arrogant nationalists" because Canadians bash Americans for being arrogant nationalists.

go go Canadian hypocrisy.


Delete

bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:Quote:
The scottish have a leader? I thought they were part of england and under their control.

*ducks*



actually most of the british(english) government is made up of scots... we are nearly there in our annexing...... wink


back on topic...

on a reread, it seems less rude(with the hindsight of the follows-up), just unclear...

R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

Delete

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:I agree that when I first read it, it seemed very haughty, but now it really doesn't. Anyhow I have to go to the range and shoot up some paper people smile Yall have a good day 'cause I know I will smile

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Delete


Similar Topics

Using the keywords [paul martin appease bush] we found the following similar topics.
1. Forums > Can Paul Martin appease Bush? [14 replies]
2. Learn > Accidents > Fire Accidents > FIRE POI accident *help/resource written for hop by paul gleesonat first  i wasn t one...
3. Forums > Bush Words [18 replies]
4. Forums > Bush caught redhanded again [28 replies]
5. Forums > Bush and Kerry in Dead Heat [18 replies]

     Show more..