Forums > Technical Discussion > LED skunkworks: Wish list/brainstorm.
Login/Join to Participatestrange/r/st/-ish
142 posts
Location: upside down
142 posts
Location: upside down
Posted:
Like quite a few of you I've been bitten by the LED bug, and while I've managed to create a few nice poi I would like to take if further. I've spent the last two days reading documentation and spec sheets, and now I'm 100% certain I've absorbed at least 1% of the information I'll need to in order to produce PIC controlled poi and staff.
But what to do? I've had a few ideas since seeing FlameOz perform recently, but I'm sure others out there have bucket loads of ideas they wouldn't mind sharing with the HOP community, in the interests of giving the geeky ones something to do if nothing else.
SO
If you could wish for anything in your LED toys, anything at all, be it simple or complicated, humble or part of some fiendish plot to take over the world, please post it here!
Some thoughts.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Synchronization.
poi and or staff following the same lighting sequence, in unison.
This would require either physical contact via a conductive surface (located on the tips of staff/poi heads) to transfer the sequence and establish a heartbeat, or wireless communication to do the same or transmit the sequence real time from a controlling source (master staff/poi).
I figure this would be good for group performance, or to unify a group of individual spinners.
----------------------------------------
Audio sequence triggers.
lighting sequences (as simple as a single pulse) being triggered by audio input. ie flashing to the beat.
This could get quite complicated I suppose, as different frequency ranges could trigger different effects (spectrum analyzer in your poi/staff anyone?)
----------------------------------------
Programmable sequences.
the ability to key in a lighting sequence via the staff/poi.
applies to setting the tempo as well.
few problems with producing enough user feedback here, ie 'are we tapping the sequence for blue or red???'
----------------------------------------
Lighting effects.
Strobe
colour fade: fade from one colour to another, or through the rainbow with three LEDs
others?
----------------------------------------
ViM
Like quite a few of you I've been bitten by the LED bug, and while I've managed to create a few nice poi I would like to take if further. I've spent the last two days reading documentation and spec sheets, and now I'm 100% certain I've absorbed at least 1% of the information I'll need to in order to produce PIC controlled poi and staff.
But what to do? I've had a few ideas since seeing FlameOz perform recently, but I'm sure others out there have bucket loads of ideas they wouldn't mind sharing with the HOP community, in the interests of giving the geeky ones something to do if nothing else.
SO
If you could wish for anything in your LED toys, anything at all, be it simple or complicated, humble or part of some fiendish plot to take over the world, please post it here!
Some thoughts.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Synchronization.
poi and or staff following the same lighting sequence, in unison.
This would require either physical contact via a conductive surface (located on the tips of staff/poi heads) to transfer the sequence and establish a heartbeat, or wireless communication to do the same or transmit the sequence real time from a controlling source (master staff/poi).
I figure this would be good for group performance, or to unify a group of individual spinners.
----------------------------------------
Audio sequence triggers.
lighting sequences (as simple as a single pulse) being triggered by audio input. ie flashing to the beat.
This could get quite complicated I suppose, as different frequency ranges could trigger different effects (spectrum analyzer in your poi/staff anyone?)
----------------------------------------
Programmable sequences.
the ability to key in a lighting sequence via the staff/poi.
applies to setting the tempo as well.
few problems with producing enough user feedback here, ie 'are we tapping the sequence for blue or red???'
----------------------------------------
Lighting effects.
Strobe
colour fade: fade from one colour to another, or through the rainbow with three LEDs
others?
----------------------------------------
ViM
PLATINUM Member
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
Ooh, the RGB one is quite pretty. Make me a pair! I'll give you a dollar! Or I'll shine our shoes! Or dance like a monkey!
Looks great, keep it up.
Ooh, the RGB one is quite pretty. Make me a pair! I'll give you a dollar! Or I'll shine our shoes! Or dance like a monkey!
Looks great, keep it up.
strange/r/st/-ish
142 posts
Location: upside down
142 posts
Location: upside down
Posted:
GraY: how did you go sourcing the couplings? I know the ones you're talking about and I think you have something there. Another thing to consider - how many revolutions are they rated for.
GraY: how did you go sourcing the couplings? I know the ones you're talking about and I think you have something there. Another thing to consider - how many revolutions are they rated for.
strange/r/st/-ish
142 posts
Location: upside down
142 posts
Location: upside down
Posted:
Drakien: thanks for the input.
I've been working on the EQ thing for poi, but it would look a _lot_ better in a staff. Have the basic sound detection circuit working, but have to make it lot more sensitive before it is usable. It only works if things are very loud and only has a small volume range as yet.
Night rider would work the same way as the skyliner effect above, just a different sequence and very easy once you have the basic circuit. This one isn't on my short list as there are not a lot of things you can do once you go past the word writing and night rider effect.
Drakien: thanks for the input.
I've been working on the EQ thing for poi, but it would look a _lot_ better in a staff. Have the basic sound detection circuit working, but have to make it lot more sensitive before it is usable. It only works if things are very loud and only has a small volume range as yet.
Night rider would work the same way as the skyliner effect above, just a different sequence and very easy once you have the basic circuit. This one isn't on my short list as there are not a lot of things you can do once you go past the word writing and night rider effect.
strange/r/st/-ish
142 posts
Location: upside down
142 posts
Location: upside down
Posted:
MillenniuM: yeah, thought you might like that one.
a dollar. hehe
if I ever get the 'MillenniuM Pulse' working perhaps I'll send you a pair.
MillenniuM: yeah, thought you might like that one.
a dollar. heheif I ever get the 'MillenniuM Pulse' working perhaps I'll send you a pair.
strange/r/st/-ish
142 posts
Location: upside down
142 posts
Location: upside down
Posted:
I think I may be able to do this now and would like to give it a go, if you can give me a more detailed description of what you mean.
Have V1.0 of this working. So simple, in the end.
If I can get hold of a camera again I'll post some pictures. hmmm, with it only changing slowly your not going to see much... might have to be a 15 second exposure while I run around the yard.
Quote:
My ultimate LED poi would be able to strobe multiple colors with a pulsating effect. I'd love a pair of those... I have 7 color strobing Electroglos, they're QUITE nice, but a pulsating effect would make me smile.
I think I may be able to do this now and would like to give it a go, if you can give me a more detailed description of what you mean.
Quote:
I really think morphing effects are key... I was just thinking, and a constant, extremely slow morph would be absolutely beautiful. Imagine a constant morph (It is always changing from one color to another) that takes about 5 seconds to change from one LED being 100% to 0%... it'd look absolutely stupendous.
Have V1.0 of this working. So simple, in the end.
If I can get hold of a camera again I'll post some pictures. hmmm, with it only changing slowly your not going to see much... might have to be a 15 second exposure while I run around the yard.
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
oioooh...3 posts in a row.. I havent done that for sometime..
erm.. yeh..leds.
MCP told me a great idea.. like someone said earlier about the leds on Kit (the car not spinner) that went up and down in a line. Imagine how groovy that would look on a staff!!
or if you had two LEDS at one time travelling in one direction down the staff. When you spin it.. what pattern would you get?
Think about it...
oioooh...3 posts in a row.. I havent done that for sometime..
erm.. yeh..leds.
MCP told me a great idea.. like someone said earlier about the leds on Kit (the car not spinner) that went up and down in a line. Imagine how groovy that would look on a staff!!
or if you had two LEDS at one time travelling in one direction down the staff. When you spin it.. what pattern would you get?
Think about it...
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
4.
4.
enthusiast
523 posts
Location: Edinburgh, UK
523 posts
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posted:
'lo
Just a couple of thoughts:
transparent silicone sealant is my friend at the moment. It gives you extra diffusion, waterproofing, impact cushioning and a strange look all in one, and it's cheap and easy to apply - there's some prototypes here.
Also I've been working on a little bit of software for designing light sequences for poi/staff etc. The idea behind it is that you can create a light sequence fairly easily, and then somehow send it to your toys. It's quite rough at the moment, but if anyone's interested I'll tidy it up a little and release it. there's a screenshot here to give you an idea of what I'm talking about (all the displays at the top are strobing in a variety of ways). Currently you can only have one colour at once, and there's only a few different things you can put in the sequence, but that should be easy to chance if people throw ideas at me!
'lo
Just a couple of thoughts:
transparent silicone sealant is my friend at the moment. It gives you extra diffusion, waterproofing, impact cushioning and a strange look all in one, and it's cheap and easy to apply - there's some prototypes here.
Also I've been working on a little bit of software for designing light sequences for poi/staff etc. The idea behind it is that you can create a light sequence fairly easily, and then somehow send it to your toys. It's quite rough at the moment, but if anyone's interested I'll tidy it up a little and release it. there's a screenshot here to give you an idea of what I'm talking about (all the displays at the top are strobing in a variety of ways). Currently you can only have one colour at once, and there's only a few different things you can put in the sequence, but that should be easy to chance if people throw ideas at me!
monkeys ate my brain
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
That looks highly confusing.
Im sure it isnt really..but it looks it.
Hat?
That looks highly confusing.
Im sure it isnt really..but it looks it.
Hat?
enthusiast
523 posts
Location: Edinburgh, UK
523 posts
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posted:
Yup, it's not pretty
It makes a bit more sense when you use it, though...
Coupla things I forgot to mention,
One simple plan for programming toys would be to put a photosensor in the toy; you could then hold it up to your monitor and use a program which would flash a black/white area to give you a very basic serial link (and many pic's etc already have serial protocols built in, so it should be very cheap). The main problem is speed - I don't think you'd get more than about 20 bit/s given the refresh rates of monitors
For polycarbonate I'm speaking to Davis Plastics who have a useless website, but they're quoting me under £6 per meter for 20mm od 2mm wall PC tube.
Oh yeah, and I've got a black beanie
cheers,
mo
Quote:
That looks highly confusing.
Yup, it's not pretty
It makes a bit more sense when you use it, though...
Coupla things I forgot to mention,
One simple plan for programming toys would be to put a photosensor in the toy; you could then hold it up to your monitor and use a program which would flash a black/white area to give you a very basic serial link (and many pic's etc already have serial protocols built in, so it should be very cheap). The main problem is speed - I don't think you'd get more than about 20 bit/s given the refresh rates of monitors
For polycarbonate I'm speaking to Davis Plastics who have a useless website, but they're quoting me under £6 per meter for 20mm od 2mm wall PC tube.
Oh yeah, and I've got a black beanie
cheers,
mo
monkeys ate my brain
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
a black beanie?
my, my...that is very helpful!
grrrr volcom.
a black beanie?
my, my...that is very helpful!
grrrr volcom.
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Posted:
ahh, someone thinking along VERY similar wavelengths to myself
I have been toying with the exact same idea... in fact a lot of this thread appears to be what I've been thinking about recently!
Did you have a way to store the sequences in the Poi when the power goes off? As far as I could see, there wasn't any way to store it?
I'd been thinking you could maybe have a USB port or similar in the end of your Poi to plug into to transfer data.. ?
[Edit]Been busy reading stuff - take a look at the datasheet for the PIC16F872 :
...sounds good no?
EDITED_BY: FireGeeK (1081890217)
Quote:
'lo
Just a couple of thoughts:
transparent silicone sealant is my friend at the moment. It gives you extra diffusion, waterproofing, impact cushioning and a strange look all in one, and it's cheap and easy to apply - there's some prototypes here.
Also I've been working on a little bit of software for designing light sequences for poi/staff etc. The idea behind it is that you can create a light sequence fairly easily, and then somehow send it to your toys. It's quite rough at the moment, but if anyone's interested I'll tidy it up a little and release it. there's a screenshot here to give you an idea of what I'm talking about (all the displays at the top are strobing in a variety of ways). Currently you can only have one colour at once, and there's only a few different things you can put in the sequence, but that should be easy to chance if people throw ideas at me!
ahh, someone thinking along VERY similar wavelengths to myself
I have been toying with the exact same idea... in fact a lot of this thread appears to be what I've been thinking about recently!Did you have a way to store the sequences in the Poi when the power goes off? As far as I could see, there wasn't any way to store it?
I'd been thinking you could maybe have a USB port or similar in the end of your Poi to plug into to transfer data.. ?
[Edit]Been busy reading stuff - take a look at the datasheet for the PIC16F872 :
Quote:
"11.17 In-Circuit Serial Programming
PIC16F872 microcontrollers can be serially programmed
while in the end application circuit. This is
simply done with two lines for clock and data and three
other lines for power, ground, and the programming
voltage. This allows customers to manufacture boards
with unprogrammed devices, and then program the
microcontroller just before shipping the product. This
also allows the most recent firmware or a custom firmware
to be programmed.
When using ICSP, the part must be supplied 4.5V to
5.5V if a bulk erase will be executed. This includes
reprogramming of the code protect, both from an onstate
to off-state. For all other cases of ICSP, the part
may be programmed at the normal operating voltages.
This means calibration values, unique user IDs or user
code can be reprogrammed or added."
...sounds good no?
EDITED_BY: FireGeeK (1081890217)
Cake or Death?
strange/r/st/-ish
142 posts
Location: upside down
142 posts
Location: upside down
Posted:
like you needed that post twice
EDITED_BY: vim (1081923461)
like you needed that post twice
EDITED_BY: vim (1081923461)
strange/r/st/-ish
142 posts
Location: upside down
142 posts
Location: upside down
Posted:
@ UCOF
noooooo! you broke my run, I was going for five in a row
ooooooooooh
@ mo-seph
nice work, love the name
I had been thinking along the same lines (lots of that going on here it seems), looking for something I could dip the PC tube in when it was all done. That you have had success along gives me confidence that it's a good idea (and the lumps on my head indicate not doing so is just stupid ) Now to work out which type is the best (https://www.dowcorning.com/content/rubber/)!
Love the software! At the moment it's fairly easy for someone with a little programming experience to code the chips I'm using (in basic and I can already produce all the effects you show there as well as multi colour), but your interface is _way_ ahead in terms of usability and the graphical representation of the finished effect is fantastic.
For simplicity - how about the ability to drag and drop modules?
ie, have a time line for each colour, then drag the 'fade in' module to the colour you wanted, set speed, min and max illumination etc. That would make it easy to overlap colours.
My only concern about the idea is the cost of the hardware. I think I can come up with something, but fitting all the code to interpret the incoming signal onto inexpensive hardware might not be possible.
If you're willing to keep developing the software I have a couple of larger chips with much expanded memory and will have a go at creating some code to read input (pulses from a com port, or possibly usb - can you output to ports in java?) and interpret them. If I can get that done in a few hundred lines we're laughing.
lol, flashing monitor. can put a light sensor in if that's the only way.
@ FireGeeK
nice info.
I'm using modified picmicro chips (picaxe) These are easy to use and program, but you pay for that with lost functionality. Take a look at https://www.rev-ed.co.uk/picaxe/
for the features. The big reason I have been using them is because they don't require a AUD$100+ programmer and can be reprogrammed as often as you like while leaving them in place.
Looks like picmicro have either caught up or I missed that ability when I was researching.
argh, have to go.
@ UCOF
noooooo! you broke my run, I was going for five in a row
Quote:
or if you had two LEDS at one time travelling in one direction down the staff. When you spin it.. what pattern would you get?
ooooooooooh
@ mo-seph
nice work, love the name
I had been thinking along the same lines (lots of that going on here it seems
), looking for something I could dip the PC tube in when it was all done. That you have had success along gives me confidence that it's a good idea (and the lumps on my head indicate not doing so is just stupid ) Now to work out which type is the best (https://www.dowcorning.com/content/rubber/)! Love the software! At the moment it's fairly easy for someone with a little programming experience to code the chips I'm using (in basic and I can already produce all the effects you show there as well as multi colour), but your interface is _way_ ahead in terms of usability and the graphical representation of the finished effect is fantastic.
For simplicity - how about the ability to drag and drop modules?
ie, have a time line for each colour, then drag the 'fade in' module to the colour you wanted, set speed, min and max illumination etc. That would make it easy to overlap colours.
My only concern about the idea is the cost of the hardware. I think I can come up with something, but fitting all the code to interpret the incoming signal onto inexpensive hardware might not be possible.
If you're willing to keep developing the software I have a couple of larger chips with much expanded memory and will have a go at creating some code to read input (pulses from a com port, or possibly usb - can you output to ports in java?) and interpret them. If I can get that done in a few hundred lines we're laughing.
lol, flashing monitor. can put a light sensor in if that's the only way.
@ FireGeeK
nice info.
I'm using modified picmicro chips (picaxe) These are easy to use and program, but you pay for that with lost functionality. Take a look at https://www.rev-ed.co.uk/picaxe/
for the features. The big reason I have been using them is because they don't require a AUD$100+ programmer and can be reprogrammed as often as you like while leaving them in place.
Looks like picmicro have either caught up or I missed that ability when I was researching.
argh, have to go.
enthusiast
523 posts
Location: Edinburgh, UK
523 posts
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posted:
You might want to check out atmel's stuff as well - I've got a friend who swears by them, and uses a very cheap programmer that plugs into the serial port. They do some decent spec chips for around $3-5. It's amazing how slow 4MHz suddenly becomes when you're trying to do nice PCM etc...
Cool, I'll have a play with the software and try and get something decent sorted out. Java does speak to serial ports, but I think you need some extensions, which is a bit annoying. There's some stuff to get it to talk USB, but that seems even more bleeding edge. Should all be do-able, though
I think my first priority is multiple light sources per sequence, so we can have pretty fades etc
Quote:
I'm using modified picmicro chips (picaxe) These are easy to use and program, but you pay for that with lost functionality. Take a look at https://www.rev-ed.co.uk/picaxe/
for the features. The big reason I have been using them is because they don't require a AUD$100+ programmer and can be reprogrammed as often as you like while leaving them in place.
You might want to check out atmel's stuff as well - I've got a friend who swears by them, and uses a very cheap programmer that plugs into the serial port. They do some decent spec chips for around $3-5. It's amazing how slow 4MHz suddenly becomes when you're trying to do nice PCM etc...
Cool, I'll have a play with the software and try and get something decent sorted out. Java does speak to serial ports, but I think you need some extensions, which is a bit annoying. There's some stuff to get it to talk USB, but that seems even more bleeding edge. Should all be do-able, though
I think my first priority is multiple light sources per sequence, so we can have pretty fades etc
monkeys ate my brain
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Posted:
Interesting, although I suspect PICs may have come a way since you last looked at them. You can find a schematic to build a simple / very cheap PIC programmer here (as well as a host of other interesting information!).
My current thoughts on using PWM to balance the colours...
1) use set the base PWM rate so that no LED is using more than it's specced current - that's your base PWM rate.
2) reduce the duty cycle of the red / green until their intensity matches the blue (i.e. with all three on, you get white light).
3) adjust the duty cycle of the different colours different amounts to reproduce different hues / saturations. The hues / saturations could be programmed via some software like mo-seph's.
I've never tried anything as complicated as this, but I shouldn't think it's impossible
Quote:
@ FireGeeK
nice info.
I'm using modified picmicro chips (picaxe) These are easy to use and program, but you pay for that with lost functionality. Take a look at https://www.rev-ed.co.uk/picaxe/
for the features. The big reason I have been using them is because they don't require a AUD$100+ programmer and can be reprogrammed as often as you like while leaving them in place.
Looks like picmicro have either caught up or I missed that ability when I was researching.
Interesting, although I suspect PICs may have come a way since you last looked at them. You can find a schematic to build a simple / very cheap PIC programmer here (as well as a host of other interesting information!).
My current thoughts on using PWM to balance the colours...
1) use set the base PWM rate so that no LED is using more than it's specced current - that's your base PWM rate.
2) reduce the duty cycle of the red / green until their intensity matches the blue (i.e. with all three on, you get white light).
3) adjust the duty cycle of the different colours different amounts to reproduce different hues / saturations. The hues / saturations could be programmed via some software like mo-seph's.
I've never tried anything as complicated as this, but I shouldn't think it's impossible
Cake or Death?
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Posted:
Some posible strobing / colour combinations I've been thinking about..
Non-Https Image Link
..lots of combinations of those kinds of patterns / colours should look pretty goddamn awesome
Some posible strobing / colour combinations I've been thinking about..
Non-Https Image Link
..lots of combinations of those kinds of patterns / colours should look pretty goddamn awesome
Cake or Death?
PLATINUM Member
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
Number 4, number 4! That is absolutely gorgeous.
Number 4, number 4! That is absolutely gorgeous.
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Posted:
Oops, forgot I was moving my server today - pictures will be down 'till ~tuesday (probably). Remind me which (4) was? Was that the smooth transition through all colours?
...and as for the software, how about having 3 timelines, one for each colour. In each time line, you set the amount of light you want to produce for that colour. If the range of each is 0-255, full-on/white would be 255,255,255 and off would be 0,0,0. You could split it into different 'blocks' that you build up so you could build up a little library of effects and just slot them in to create nice sequences
Oops, forgot I was moving my server today - pictures will be down 'till ~tuesday (probably). Remind me which (4) was? Was that the smooth transition through all colours?
...and as for the software, how about having 3 timelines, one for each colour. In each time line, you set the amount of light you want to produce for that colour. If the range of each is 0-255, full-on/white would be 255,255,255 and off would be 0,0,0. You could split it into different 'blocks' that you build up so you could build up a little library of effects and just slot them in to create nice sequences
Cake or Death?
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Posted:
Well, server is back up. Found some interesting information here. Maybe we could build some software like their 'ColorPlay' software?
Well, server is back up. Found some interesting information here. Maybe we could build some software like their 'ColorPlay' software?
Cake or Death?
enthusiast
523 posts
Location: Edinburgh, UK
523 posts
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posted:
What I'm working on at the moment is having any configuration of different lights at different places on your toy, so you can build up *really* complicated patterns, by controlling all the lights individually. As soon as that's done and stable, I'll post it so you can all have a play.
It won't be till after beltane, though...
Quote:
...and as for the software, how about having 3 timelines, one for each colour. In each time line, you set the amount of light you want to produce for that colour. If the range of each is 0-255, full-on/white would be 255,255,255 and off would be 0,0,0. You could split it into different 'blocks' that you build up so you could build up a little library of effects and just slot them in to create nice sequences
What I'm working on at the moment is having any configuration of different lights at different places on your toy, so you can build up *really* complicated patterns, by controlling all the lights individually. As soon as that's done and stable, I'll post it so you can all have a play.
It won't be till after beltane, though...
monkeys ate my brain
110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
you guys have some wicked ideas, but i don't reckon that anything too complex is gonna get used (ie. specific sequences for specific performances). i don't know anyone who uses the pc linkup for doing complex stuff with their aerotechs.
or is that pc linkup just a figment of my imagination..?
i think average Joe Poispinner has the following basic wish-list for his glotoys:
1. as bright as aerotechs
2. reliable and extremely resistant to damage
3. relatively cheap
so i reckon those are the things to make sure you've got down before getting into all the bells and whistles. i've seen loads of glotoys, and none give the same bright solid colour that aerotech manage to put out, which is why i'm not interested in anything else... but aerotech she so expensive
edit - i deny all responsibility for eating mo-seph's brain
EDITED_BY: simian (1082992207)
you guys have some wicked ideas, but i don't reckon that anything too complex is gonna get used (ie. specific sequences for specific performances). i don't know anyone who uses the pc linkup for doing complex stuff with their aerotechs.
or is that pc linkup just a figment of my imagination..?
i think average Joe Poispinner has the following basic wish-list for his glotoys:
1. as bright as aerotechs
2. reliable and extremely resistant to damage
3. relatively cheap
so i reckon those are the things to make sure you've got down before getting into all the bells and whistles. i've seen loads of glotoys, and none give the same bright solid colour that aerotech manage to put out, which is why i'm not interested in anything else... but aerotech she so expensive
edit - i deny all responsibility for eating mo-seph's brain
EDITED_BY: simian (1082992207)
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
strange/r/st/-ish
142 posts
Location: upside down
142 posts
Location: upside down
Posted:
the bells! the bells! sooo bright, so shiny. ooooooh. ahhhhhh
No, you're not imagining it It's not possible to incorporate control for all the features of our uber toy (did I mention the put-a-motor-in-it idea yet?) into the toy itself.
It also helps not to have to dismantle the prototypes every time you want to try something new.
I have to agree with you 100%, though it tarnishes my geekyness to admit it
the whistles! noooo! it's ours. ours! the feeeving...
1. How bright are these aerotechs? Do they light up a large area, or is it more that they present a very solid and uniform light?
I think FireGeeK and Chiron must be close to as bright as you would want as far as pure output goes and a good diffuser would smooth things out.
2. I think polycarbonate is about as tough as we can manage. I have other ideas but have been unable to find a source. I can't say, as I am using acrylic, but I suspect it's fairly durable.
3. It's fairly easy to make something that doesn't cost much (though there are minimum quantities etc) per toy, and kept simple most people could make them. As soon as you start going for brightness and features things quickly become expensive though.
What sort of $$ would you like to pay for a toy with the qualities you mentioned?
What would you like it to be able to do? Are we talking one colour, three, five? One sequence or ten?
Thanks for the input.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
@3.6v maximum (4.8 - transistor voltage drop)
Using PWM
RED:
on @ 190
50% @ 212
100% @ 220
BLUE:
on @170
50% @ 220
100% @240
YELLOW:
about in between
Fades all looked fine until I saw the pictures
I rewrote the code, trying to normalize everything with yellow, but they don't all reach 50% at the same time...
A lookup table or three will fix the problem, but the number of steps available is going to be limited and I don't think it's going to fit on a 12F629 any more.
I suspect these values will we different for other LEDs, so would it be possible for the program to be configured for different hardware?
PS. be warned, posted before morning coffee, contents may induce insanity.
oh, too late...
EDITED_BY: vim (1083022557)
the bells! the bells! sooo bright, so shiny. ooooooh. ahhhhhh
No, you're not imagining it
It's not possible to incorporate control for all the features of our uber toy (did I mention the put-a-motor-in-it idea yet?) into the toy itself.It also helps not to have to dismantle the prototypes every time you want to try something new.
I have to agree with you 100%, though it tarnishes my geekyness to admit it
the whistles! noooo! it's ours. ours! the feeeving...
1. How bright are these aerotechs? Do they light up a large area, or is it more that they present a very solid and uniform light?
I think FireGeeK and Chiron must be close to as bright as you would want as far as pure output goes and a good diffuser would smooth things out.
2. I think polycarbonate is about as tough as we can manage. I have other ideas but have been unable to find a source. I can't say, as I am using acrylic, but I suspect it's fairly durable.
3. It's fairly easy to make something that doesn't cost much (though there are minimum quantities etc) per toy, and kept simple most people could make them. As soon as you start going for brightness and features things quickly become expensive though.
What sort of $$ would you like to pay for a toy with the qualities you mentioned?
What would you like it to be able to do? Are we talking one colour, three, five? One sequence or ten?
Thanks for the input.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
If the range of each is 0-255
@3.6v maximum (4.8 - transistor voltage drop)
Using PWM
RED:
on @ 190
50% @ 212
100% @ 220
BLUE:
on @170
50% @ 220
100% @240
YELLOW:
about in between
Fades all looked fine until I saw the pictures
I rewrote the code, trying to normalize everything with yellow, but they don't all reach 50% at the same time...
A lookup table or three will fix the problem, but the number of steps available is going to be limited and I don't think it's going to fit on a 12F629 any more.
I suspect these values will we different for other LEDs, so would it be possible for the program to be configured for different hardware?
PS. be warned, posted before morning coffee, contents may induce insanity.
oh, too late...
EDITED_BY: vim (1083022557)
110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
until recently i never saw any LED products as bright as aerotechs, but thats been changing. i assume thats purely cos of superbright leds becoming more available / falling in price.
The diffusion is really good. The balls are almost completely solid and uniform. The sticks are not so good, but still far better than any other equipment i've seen. Have
The toughness of the 'shell' is one thing, but its the stuff inside that'll be vulnerable to damage. i like the idea of silicon sealant or something similar, but that would make maintenance an impossibility wouldn't it?
(psst... the 3 colours should be RGB, not RBY - but i assume that was the caffeine deficiency talking )
Quote:
1. How bright are these aerotechs? Do they light up a large area, or is it more that they present a very solid and uniform light?
I think FireGeeK and Chiron must be close to as bright as you would want as far as pure output goes and a good diffuser would smooth things out.
until recently i never saw any LED products as bright as aerotechs, but thats been changing. i assume thats purely cos of superbright leds becoming more available / falling in price.
The diffusion is really good. The balls are almost completely solid and uniform. The sticks are not so good, but still far better than any other equipment i've seen. Have
Quote:
2. I think polycarbonate is about as tough as we can manage. I have other ideas but have been unable to find a source. I can't say, as I am using acrylic, but I suspect it's fairly durable.
The toughness of the 'shell' is one thing, but its the stuff inside that'll be vulnerable to damage. i like the idea of silicon sealant or something similar, but that would make maintenance an impossibility wouldn't it?
(psst... the 3 colours should be RGB, not RBY - but i assume that was the caffeine deficiency talking
) "Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Posted:
Super bright LEDs help, but Luxeons are much brighter!
Acrylic isn't the best material - it shatters. I've got some polycarb tube which seems to be virtually indestructable!
As for the sealant, it depends what you mean by maintenance?
EDITED_BY: FireGeeK (1083147371)
Super bright LEDs help, but Luxeons are much brighter!
Acrylic isn't the best material - it shatters. I've got some polycarb tube which seems to be virtually indestructable!
As for the sealant, it depends what you mean by maintenance?
EDITED_BY: FireGeeK (1083147371)
Cake or Death?
110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
maintenance = when things go wrong and you have to open them up to fix them
Like i said, your polycarb tube might be indestructable, but the stuff inside it needs to be equally shock resistant, but also needs to be accessible if it goes wrong.
maintenance = when things go wrong and you have to open them up to fix them
Like i said, your polycarb tube might be indestructable, but the stuff inside it needs to be equally shock resistant, but also needs to be accessible if it goes wrong.
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Posted:
Well, if you've sealed them in some kind of silicon sealant / resin, they should be impact resistant. Wires and so forth should never need tampering with once you've got them glued in place. If you're worried about the microcontroller / LEDs failing / needing replacement, you could always mount them in sockets so they're removeable.. ?
I think if you've made a little PCB and everything is held in place, this isn't really much of an issue? Maybe I've over-looked something you were thinking about though?
EDITED_BY: FireGeeK (1083147693)
Well, if you've sealed them in some kind of silicon sealant / resin, they should be impact resistant. Wires and so forth should never need tampering with once you've got them glued in place. If you're worried about the microcontroller / LEDs failing / needing replacement, you could always mount them in sockets so they're removeable.. ?
I think if you've made a little PCB and everything is held in place, this isn't really much of an issue? Maybe I've over-looked something you were thinking about though?
EDITED_BY: FireGeeK (1083147693)
Cake or Death?
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Posted:
Here's the bit with all the electronics (LEDS etc.) in my Poi :
Non-Https Image Link
And here's the inside :
Non-Https Image Link
There's a load more room in there if you tidy up the wiring - I was in a rush to see them lit
Sanded polycarb tube is what I use as a diffuser. Te rest of the metal exposed to the LEDs light is highly polished so virtually all the light is reflected out :
Non-Https Image Link
Non-Https Image Link
The thicknesses I've used are on the big side (better to be safe than sorry) which makes each unit much heavier than it need be, but it's certainly very strong and despite loads of collisions with each other / several walls, both the electronics and the units themselves seem unaffected...
EDITED_BY: FireGeeK (1083163563)
Here's the bit with all the electronics (LEDS etc.) in my Poi :
Non-Https Image Link
And here's the inside :
Non-Https Image Link
There's a load more room in there if you tidy up the wiring - I was in a rush to see them lit
Sanded polycarb tube is what I use as a diffuser. Te rest of the metal exposed to the LEDs light is highly polished so virtually all the light is reflected out :
Non-Https Image Link
Non-Https Image Link
The thicknesses I've used are on the big side (better to be safe than sorry) which makes each unit much heavier than it need be, but it's certainly very strong and despite loads of collisions with each other / several walls, both the electronics and the units themselves seem unaffected...
EDITED_BY: FireGeeK (1083163563)
Cake or Death?
110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
Sounds wicked, superior to the majority of "home-grown" glotoys i've seen.
Can't see the pics tho...
i was just saying you can't overstate how hard wearing this stuff should be. Electrical equipment isn't generally made to be abused in the way that juggly equipment is.
any plans to make affordable\durable\bright\strobing\non-wobbly glow staffs?
i can think of quite a few people who'd be interested in a reasonably priced aerotech competitor.
The main design problem being a material to make the staff from thats transparent, feels "solid" but doesn't shatter. All the polycarbs i've used are too wobbly once you go past 4foot-ish. Even the newer aerotechs with the extra sheath bit.
erm.. sorry, rambling a bit i guess
Sounds wicked, superior to the majority of "home-grown" glotoys i've seen.
Can't see the pics tho...
i was just saying you can't overstate how hard wearing this stuff should be. Electrical equipment isn't generally made to be abused in the way that juggly equipment is.
any plans to make affordable\durable\bright\strobing\non-wobbly glow staffs?
i can think of quite a few people who'd be interested in a reasonably priced aerotech competitor.
The main design problem being a material to make the staff from thats transparent, feels "solid" but doesn't shatter. All the polycarbs i've used are too wobbly once you go past 4foot-ish. Even the newer aerotechs with the extra sheath bit.
erm.. sorry, rambling a bit i guess
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
strange/r/st/-ish
142 posts
Location: upside down
142 posts
Location: upside down
Posted:
yes yes, I know, it's RBG. I know a lot of artsy people and according to them it's RBY.
Both are correct, it depends what you're working with.
I'm trying not to start a war with said artsy friends, but some just won't accept this G upstart.
Acrylic is definitely a bad idea. I'm only using it because it's cheap to play around with.
I've had some funny things happen to transistors and LEDs because I have soldered them onto a PCB with long legs so they can be removed, and I'm not giving these a hard time. I think though that with 90% of the electronics just soldering them onto a solid PCB will do the job. The LEDs are a bit of a problem and should probably have the heads supported a bit, I thought a bracket strewed onto the PCB or embedding that end of the PCB in hard resin would do the trick.
As far as repairs go: I _hope_ there wouldn't be the need to repair the electronics provided the LEDs are used within spec. I like the idea of the electronics being accessible, but any solution I can think of would be a lot of effort for something that most people probably couldn't be bothered with, or will reduce it's ability to take a knock. IMO
oh, hehe, what FireGeek said.
can't see the pictures here either!
Plans for glow staffs - hell yes! Well, come up with a design and build one at least. The idea of making enough money to keep myself in food from a glow business is a nice idea, and I've been thinking about it, but it's not what I'm doing this for. If I had access to a digital camera more often I'd be posting full details to the web.
I want to get a nice set of poi made first though.
affordable. well I dunno. it will depend a lot on what the staff is made of.
Does it have to be lit all the way along, or can it just be the ends?
what would you like something like this to cost?
durable. see above
non-wobbly : see above
bright: this is really a matter of cost. More $$ = More Light.
strobing: can do, no problem
argh, you've got me dreaming up ways to make a staff now!
A central core for rigidity with light conductive sheath, same principle as FireGeeks poi design.
PS. Ramle all you want, I do! surprised anyone is reading my posts!
PPS. FireGeek. I've been sanding the inside of my poi using sandpaper and a drill. This works fairly well but I don't have the advantage of a reflector. I'm guessing I'm only getting 60% of the available light.
I _was_ having a nice discussion with 3M about diffusion material they make, but as soon as I told them I didn't have $30000 a year to spend they went quiet.
EDITED_BY: vim (1083155426)
yes yes, I know, it's RBG. I know a lot of artsy people and according to them it's RBY. Both are correct, it depends what you're working with.
I'm trying not to start a war with said artsy friends, but some just won't accept this G upstart.
Acrylic is definitely a bad idea. I'm only using it because it's cheap to play around with.
I've had some funny things happen to transistors and LEDs because I have soldered them onto a PCB with long legs so they can be removed, and I'm not giving these a hard time. I think though that with 90% of the electronics just soldering them onto a solid PCB will do the job. The LEDs are a bit of a problem and should probably have the heads supported a bit, I thought a bracket strewed onto the PCB or embedding that end of the PCB in hard resin would do the trick.
As far as repairs go: I _hope_ there wouldn't be the need to repair the electronics provided the LEDs are used within spec. I like the idea of the electronics being accessible, but any solution I can think of would be a lot of effort for something that most people probably couldn't be bothered with, or will reduce it's ability to take a knock. IMO
oh, hehe, what FireGeek said.
can't see the pictures here either!
Plans for glow staffs - hell yes! Well, come up with a design and build one at least. The idea of making enough money to keep myself in food from a glow business is a nice idea, and I've been thinking about it, but it's not what I'm doing this for. If I had access to a digital camera more often I'd be posting full details to the web.
I want to get a nice set of poi made first though.
affordable. well I dunno. it will depend a lot on what the staff is made of.
Does it have to be lit all the way along, or can it just be the ends?
what would you like something like this to cost?
durable. see above
non-wobbly : see above
bright: this is really a matter of cost. More $$ = More Light.
strobing: can do, no problem
argh, you've got me dreaming up ways to make a staff now!
A central core for rigidity with light conductive sheath, same principle as FireGeeks poi design.
PS. Ramle all you want, I do!
surprised anyone is reading my posts!PPS. FireGeek. I've been sanding the inside of my poi using sandpaper and a drill. This works fairly well but I don't have the advantage of a reflector. I'm guessing I'm only getting 60% of the available light.
I _was_ having a nice discussion with 3M about diffusion material they make, but as soon as I told them I didn't have $30000 a year to spend they went quiet.
EDITED_BY: vim (1083155426)
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