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Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > Calling all hyperloop boffs

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tennis
BRONZE Member since Jun 2002

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Posted:This is something that has been annoying me for ages i can hyperloop pretty much every time in with a forward 3bt weave and reverse but only in one direction (rev: r to l, for: l to r) And i just don't seem to be capeable of doing a full hyperloop 'back the other way' Instead i'm just airwrapping, or two beat hyperloop if that's it's name. can anyone suggest why cos i for the life of me cannot see what is wrong confused. My hands don't feel that they are in the wrong place. It's just as soon as the poi should be in the buzzsaw part of the trick they untangle. mad

confusedDoes anyone know what's going on? confused

Thank you in anticipation

Tennis


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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

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Posted:im having that problem aswell... umm
but im quite pleased i learnt to do it in one direction though... i suspect the other direction will come soon, or later as it may well be.


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bluecat


bluecat

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Posted:*risks wrath*

by full hyperloop do you mean a tangle buzzsaw?

where the poi tangle, move to buzzsaw, move out on other side, untangle?

if so then its just time wink. make sure your hands are in 3 and 9(clock positions) ie. horizontal.

the reason its untangling is that you don't have your poi heads inbetween your hands.

watch the way you do it the other side really closely. including the speed your hands move at, and as importantly, where they move to when you first tangle.in an airwrap they don't move, and the poi pop out. in a side to side hyperloop your hands move to the othe side really fast. in a tangle buzzsaw they move quite quickly to be either side of the poi heads....

help?
i hope so.

sorry if not.

R smile


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tennis
BRONZE Member since Jun 2002

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Posted:have no fear bluecat i'm not one to get confusing with names and i think your talking about the same thing but i just can't get it to work.

Slightly changing the subject, did i not see you oli forwards hyperlooping from right to left and very smoothly back again to your right when we met?


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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

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Posted:they were like ordinary hyperloops... i thought you were talking about the tangled buzzsaw variety where they spin around inside you arms for a bit..

if you did mean them, i couldnt do them then, ive only just learnt them, and am having te problem you described, and am now of to try what bluecat suggested smile




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i8beefy2
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

i8beefy2

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Posted:Soooooo THAT is what is meant by a tangled buzzsaw? I call this an outside-inside-outside hyperloop... I was under the impression that the tangled BUZZSAW variety was starting on the inside, moving it outside across the wrap, and then moving the hands to the other side with the poi in the middle to unwrap (inside-outside-inside hyperloop). Not to say I've ever done one of those, but this is what I pictured.... similar to the way a butterfly airwrap wraps.

Help?


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tennis
BRONZE Member since Jun 2002

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Total posts: 363
Posted:confusedright, it sounds like i have never come across a tangled buzz saw before confused and thought it was a 'ordinary hyperloop'. confused
Anyone fancy explaining in layman's confused terms what the hell a tangled buzz saw is? confused


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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

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Posted:posted by bluecat -
Quote:
*risks wrath*

by full hyperloop do you mean a tangle buzzsaw?

where the poi tangle, move to buzzsaw, move out on other side, untangle?





thats what i understand by tangled buzzsaw, but i think other people see it differently. im not sure.

peace


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They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
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borismcnorris


borismcnorris

professional pedant
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 137
Posted:Quote:

posted by bluecat -

Quote:
*risks wrath*

by full hyperloop do you mean a tangle buzzsaw?

where the poi tangle, move to buzzsaw, move out on other side, untangle?





thats what i understand by tangled buzzsaw, but i think other people see it differently. im not sure.



So if that's not a hyperloop, what is? I always thaought that this was a hyperloop, ie. with a beat or so in between the arms before going outside again. I can't really see how else it would work. frown


A warrior always returns to the fray. He never does so out of stubbornness, but because he has noticed a change in the weather - Paulo Coelho

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bluecat


bluecat

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Posted:ooooh....

a 'hyperloop'
hands at 3 and 9, tangles on left side, moves to right side, untangles.
or the other way round of course

just to recap an old arguement of mine: these are airwraps that go from one side of your body to another.

hence the vaaaast naming arguement between me, dan and a few others...



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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

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Posted:I'll repeat what I put on beefy's thread...

tangled buzzsaw- (airwrap) tangles inside the arms does the buzzsaw tthen untangles upon exiting (i.e. before the outside...)

hyperlooping buzzsaw- (hyperloop) [outside-inside-outside] begins as normal hyperloop on the outside of the arms passes through the middle and back outside where it untangles...



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tennis
BRONZE Member since Jun 2002

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Posted:so er...you would have to be in some kind of buzzsaw 'move' before going into a 'tangled buzzsaw' yes?! confused

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spiralx


spiralx

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Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:I'd have thought the difference is that in a regular hyperloop your arms simply move across your body, whereas in a tangled buzzsaw when the poi are both inside you are doing a buzzsaw motion with your arms to keep the tangle going for longer than it would otherwise before bringing them outside of your arms to untangle.

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

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Posted:to do a hyperlooping buzzsaw-
start a hyperloop (lets say on the right side) as it goes to the left side, move your left arm over.. the poi will pass on the left side of your body, but between the arms.. and then pass outside the arms on the left side where it untangles as normal.. you have to learn to be patient, it is a hyperloop and it takes a minute to gettting used to holding your hands still that long.. even though you want to work at untangling them dont.. they'll work themselves.. just keep your hands at the same level (you know how one is a little higher and one hand a little lower)
before you know it, you'll be able to control it mroe..

to do a tangled buzzsaw-
correction to my last post on this.. from the 5 bt weave, enter the buzzsaw a beat late (not earlay like is said last time) in other words.. instead of leading with the left into the buzzsaw, let the left continue to weave and enter with the right poi.. this will cause the right poi to go over your left hand and come up from underneath in the buzzsaw, followed by the left poi... as the left poi enter the buzzsaw the tanlge is formed (from the right crossing around the left arm/poi string).. it will airwrap.. (i.e. do one rotation each poi) and then untanlge as it exits to the outside, in a similar fashion to the tanlge process.. this one is little harder to give a good written description for...

I'm trying to get a video made.. I just don't have much timelately.. I should have one out by mid-late january with each of these.. and maybe some of the corkscrew variants..


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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

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Posted:right i was just playing around with my poi and i had an idea. i tried to do it for a while and it wasnt working so i thought id ask if it was actually humanely possible.

what i was trying to do was when i was doing what rev just described as a hyperlooping buzzsaw, instead of exiting from the buzzsaw part of of the move on the oppostite side to the side that you entered it on, was to try and exit it from the same side as i entered it, eg go from weave on right side to the tangled buzzsaw part of the move back to a weave on the right. i couldnt get anything to untangle, it did occour to me it might not be possible. but i thought id check.

i hope that makes sense. and someone has an answer. peace


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They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

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Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

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Posted:I getyou I think, for the tangle bussaw id call a buzz hype, but its the same thing,

I think the first one you mean like the same principal, but between the arms and the body planes rather thanboth sides of the body. basically you go for an airwrap (tangle that starts and exits on the same side of the body but the planes tangle in an 'x' between the arms.) but shove one hand forward and it bussaws in the wall plane, you can pull it back after 2,4,6 whatever beats but do you mean just leaving it to run?

got the question out eventually.

in deferance to onewheeldave, i will now paragrapg this page...

but not spellcheck it (shudder)

Tom wave



This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

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Posted:I call it an airwrapo because it tangles inside the arms and untangles inside the amrs... not on the right or left side... but the move itself goes from right to left.. i.e. you weave on the right.. it tanlges between your arms and untangles.. and then continues out the left side... same thing from left to right...

I think that's what you guys are asking..not sure...

regyt saw me doing buzzsaw fountains with them at one point this weekend..


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Dragon7
GOLD Member since Oct 2003

Dragon7

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Posted:Quote:
tangled buzzsaw- (airwrap) tangles inside the arms does the buzzsaw tthen untangles upon exiting (i.e. before the outside...)

hyperlooping buzzsaw- (hyperloop) [outside-inside-outside] begins as normal hyperloop on the outside of the arms passes through the middle and back outside where it untangles...



Rev

Dude, thats exactly the same move. Although we could sit round all day debating it.

Back to the real question : If you do a wrong (not that there is such a thing) amount of rotations, the tangle that holds the chains wont exist, and the poi come out and hit u in the mad so u guys should go back to couting maybee 3 rotations before untangle/ crossover, and also the amount of rotations before it enters the loop. That way when u get it u'll know exactly what u are doing and what works for you , and after that you can just add more and more rotations.

Good luck.


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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

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Posted:I'm not saying there wholly different.. its just like an airwrap vs. hyperloop.. its just as matter of where it begins and ends... ie. one begins and ends in the same plane and the other changes planes...

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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

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Posted:Quote:
right i was just playing around with my poi and i had an idea. i tried to do it for a while and it wasnt working so i thought id ask if it was actually humanely possible.

what i was trying to do was when i was doing what rev just described as a hyperlooping buzzsaw, instead of exiting from the buzzsaw part of of the move on the oppostite side to the side that you entered it on, was to try and exit it from the same side as i entered it, eg go from weave on right side to the tangled buzzsaw part of the move back to a weave on the right. i couldnt get anything to untangle, it did occour to me it might not be possible. but i thought id check.

i hope that makes sense. and someone has an answer. peace



- sorry to quote myself but no one seems to have noticed my post earlier umm

maybe it just dosnt make sense confused


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tennis
BRONZE Member since Jun 2002

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Location: bristol, United Kingdom

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Posted:i don't think that would be possible unless you throw out the complete hyperloop concept. you (as far as i know) have to work in opposites such as left to right, front to back, due to the nature of the 'knot' when hyperlooping being used if you wanted a 'move' involving a knot and wanted to release in on the same side you would have to think up something completely different to a hyperloop. Mabye some kind of slip knot variety? but er... good luck

Or to get your hands over to the other side of the "buzzsaw bit in the middle of a hyperloop' so instead of your hands being inside as the poi untangle....

Right complete trail of thought. three beat forward weave hyperlooping from left to right after the buzzsaw in between your arms and as the poi are beginning to untangle and they are slightly isolated after revolving around the knot is it possible to at that point bring them across to your left hand side again.


Tennis

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tennis
BRONZE Member since Jun 2002

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Posted:after trying to read my previous post i have just realised how f*****d up i still am! sorry for making so little sense i'm trying ubbangel

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

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Posted:you can exit out the same side you entered.. BUT.. in order to do so you need to isolate to untangle the hyperloop and then retanlge it as you move back the direction you came from... Its what my boy itchell refers to as opening the hyperloop... basically the motion you make when doing a tangled buzzsaw can be isolated (as can the buzzsaw part of the hypelrooping buzzsaw) which will untanlge the stings. leaving you in an isolated buzzsaw.. which you can then speed up your hands to tangle the way you came (ie. back out the right)or slow down to tanlge the way you were originially going( i.e. continuing through the left)..

I don't know how much that helps. but it is possible to exit back out the side you came in.. its jus really hard...


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Dragon7
GOLD Member since Oct 2003

Dragon7

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Posted:I agree that it is possible, but u dont need to untangle/retangle u can (if performed correctly) change both the direction of poi and also the where they will seperate.

Actually we were just talking bout keeping the chains together all the time, even during untangle... but i dont think this is the right thread for that so...

Any way u can do sort of a hyperloop offset weave type deal and bring it back to the same side, darn there are so many different ways to do this, the best advice i can give is count your rotations and also find a way to change the poi axis and direction. umm



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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

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Posted:thanks rev and taniwha....(sp)?

that answers my question, dont think im gonna try and learn how to do that yet though, sounds fairly insane tongue

at least i know its possible now biggrin


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i8beefy2
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

i8beefy2

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Posted:Ok, this may just be a variation of the tangled hyperloop-buzzsaw... but if you turn around from reverse to forwards (or forwards to reverse) and you stop your hands at 3 and 9 it is quite easy to begin a hyperloop right between the arms which can then be exited (if turning from reverse to forwards, clockwise) under the right arm...

P.S. still have no idea what a tangled buzzsaw is then, but feel I am getting closer. biggrin


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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

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Posted:sounds prety close to me... sounds like the way you enter and exit the tangled buzzsaw fountain...

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i8beefy2
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

i8beefy2

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Posted:I need a video camera or a movie to see what you mean. I think that the tangled buzzsaw that I am talking about is just wrapping on the inside of the arms in the way that a normal outside-inside-outside hyperloop wraps, only without the initial OUTSIDE part. As it is, if you do this the way I do, they STAY tangled between the arms until you bring one arm across for the unwrap. The unwrap feels (to me anyway) just like continuing the weave motion. Meaning, if I start in reverse weave and turn right, letting the poi tangle on my (Now left side, was the right when I was going reverse, but I turned, remember), except that because of the turn instead of the tangle staying on the left side, it swings up under my left arm and into the tangled buzzsaw portion of this move. Then the left arm must come UNDER the right for the untangle...

See that is where it seems to differ from a hyperloop. In a hyperloop, spinning forward and going from left to right (as this move is similar to) the left arm would need to come over the right to untangle. Except in my exit for an outside-inside-outside hyperloop, which I exit similar to THIS move, meaning the hand comes under instead of over the arm. Maybe I am just doing it wrong or something, but when I do what I call a double-hyperloop (an outside-inside-outside, called thus because it looks like it spins twice in tangle instead of once, though more than twice is possible too if you mess up right or actually know what your doing biggrin ) the move exits UNDER the arm of the side that it exits on... Umm... a regular hyperloop (No inside beats) exits for me under the opposite side arm of the side it exits on, IE moving from left to right, the left hand is on top the whole time, and the move thus exits "under" the left arm. Whereas when I move it between my arms for that extra spin, I have a tendancy to lift my right arm up and move my left arm down across my body and under the right arm to exit. It gives you a feeling like you are holding a string as far back by your bottom rib on your right side as you can with your LEFT hand (Arm stretched across body), with your right arm pulling the other end extended straight out in front of you.

Yes thats about what Im trying to describe... When I do the turn where I go into a tangle between my arms, I exit the same way... you will notice that in this exit position, it is VERY easy to just spin 180 degrees into the opposite direction weave.... Thus why I prefer to turn all the way through this move. I actually start by doing two hyperloops (right to left, then left to right) forward spinning, and then turning 180 degrees to do this tangle between the arms thing (which would be in reverse weave), exiting back out by turning another 180 degrees into my original forward weave. Its a nice little combo.

Now if a CORRECT outside-inside-outside hyperloop moving from left to right in a forward spin is actually ends with the left hand above the right hand in propper hyperloop fashion, then I am not doing THOSE right, though I think my "variation" is just the same thing only with an isolated exit... I mean if you think of the normal outside-inside-outside exit like I just described it, then just move your hands on the right side about 180 degrees counterclockwise you arrive at the basic exit position of MY outside-inside-outside hyperloop, thus why I say it is like an isolation...


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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

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Posted:an airwrap and a hyperloop are the same things... the only difference is one stays in the same plane.. left, right, buzzsaw, etc... the other travels across planes.. ie.. left to right right to left.. etc...



the tangle buzzsaw should be/feel everything like a hyperlooping one, since it is an an airwrap... but thats it.. it diesnt travel anywhere... the poi do.. but the tangle doesnt...



turns make it easier to learn the tangled buzzsaw... I used them a lot.. and there is a variation that is a weave... if you half-isolate as you go through the turn, you will notice that your hands continue making the weave motion the whoel time.. the isolation keeps the strings from tangling... basically you can weave back and forth by weaving through the buzzsaw.. its hella fun... I don't care what it looks like...



enjoy.. makes for awesome fountain type stuff... and ironically isn't that hard BTB as one would expect...



edit: oh yeah.. and beware because you can do an outside inside outside hyperloop that enters at different points in the weave... once you strt playing with that isolation thing above.. I've managed to tanlge on the way in and untangle on the outside.. kinda like a normal 2circle hyperloop.. and thats not what I was referring to with the tanglged buzzsaw (for reference)

EDITED_BY: Rev (1073426768)


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