The Confusion Squid has many tentacles
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To me (and I know I will get called on it) colateral damage is one thing, but holding over a million people in a camp and gassing them all in select turn are two completly differnt things
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If you really want to know why those men are in G-Bay just take a look at the Geniva Convention's laws of war. Bush isnt breaking the law because he has lawyers that know all the lovely loopholes and can beat the system. The men in that camp are not citizens of any country, nor are they part of any leagle army. Therefore they have very limited rights
The Confusion Squid has many tentacles
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
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Bush isnt breaking the law because he has lawyers that know all the lovely loopholes and can beat the system.
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Wan Hwo Ren, the way I see things is that these people in the camp are getting treated a hell of a lot better than they should be. In my opinion, if you commit a serious crime such as murder, rape and what not, you willingly forfeit any rights you ever had. Obviously when you committed those crimes you didn't care about your victims rights, so why should anyone care about yours?
The Confusion Squid has many tentacles
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Bush isnt breaking the law because he has lawyers that know all the lovely loopholes and can beat the system.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
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Bush isnt breaking the law because he has lawyers that know all the lovely loopholes and can beat the system.
The Confusion Squid has many tentacles
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U know, I sometimes wonder how many americans believe the US won the Vietnam war. Most I bet.
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
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You are more than welcome to start your own thread, but the anti-nuke-power group that infests this board will have little less than praises for your country, I am sorry you won't see much in the way of follies. I just don't see it happening. Not trying to be rude or negative, just don't see it happening.
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Joe, the US has no faith in an enemies court system. Why in samhell should we subject our troops to a court system that is even more flawed than our own?
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Also, you are trying to make it sound like the US uses nothing but FAEs and Cluster bombs... dude get a clue, it is a friggin war, bad things happen
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This is so BS yall are freaking out over something that is so minute in the grand scale of things. Why don't you look at the Japanese prison system, or even the Korean, Russian, Chinese? You will find that their civil and human rights record for prisoners be it foreigners or citizens is far worse than anything the US can dream up.
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Now those men in G-Bay are not prisoners of war. I have said that time and time again. They don't meet the criteria. Therefore they have no rights under the Geneva Convention. Now they do still fall under the Human Rights Act. Everyone does. It doesn't matter what my opinion is on that one. Are their human rights being violated? Not according to the Red Cross.
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dude get a clue, it is a friggin war, bad things happen.
The Confusion Squid has many tentacles
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
The experience of learning is living.
The Confusion Squid has many tentacles
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I wonder how many Ozzies think that the Vietnam Conflict was a war? The US never declared war, so that makes it pretty darn hard to win it eh? Secondly, there isn't a soul here who doesn't know about the tragic mistake of Vietnam.Quote:
Ray, a war by any other name is still a war, and what u say sounds like a poor excuse for getting your arse wipped.Quote:Good point, WTF were u doing there and ditto for Iraq.
Personally I don't see why we should have wasted lives like we did to stop something that self-destructs anyway.Quote:100% we don't make stupid war movies that distort the truth. Wot about Burma???
I wonder how many Ozzies know who stopped the Jap advance on their country?Quote:Right again Ray, i'm told there are a number of small children GB and wot u mean is that they don't meet Bush's criteria. Don't u know the breaking the Geneva Convention sets a precedent and U could be locked away in a place like GB without any rights???
Now those men in G-Bay are not prisoners of war. I have said that time and time again. They don't meet the criteria. Therefore they have no rights under the Geneva Convention. Now they do still fall under the Human Rights Act. Everyone does. It doesn't matter what my opinion is on that one. Are their human rights being violated? Not according to the Red Cross.Quote:Wot breaking the Geneva Convention?
This is so BS yall are freaking out over something that is so minute in the grand scale of things.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
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I am going to rephrase what I have said in the past, GWB could possibly be breaking the law, but I don't think that he is. I believe that his buddies have found him a loophole. I can't prove it, I can't even attempt to.
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
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If some lawyers managed to find a legal loophole saying that every February 29th, as long as you're wearing green socks and a pair of Spock ears, you could wander the streets stabbing people indiscriminately, would you do it?
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I wonder how many Ozzies know who stopped the Jap advance on their country?
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100% we don't make stupid war movies that distort the truth. Wot about Burma???
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
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Here let me ask you all a similar question:
If some lawyers managed to find a legal loophole saying that every February 29th, as long as you're wearing green socks and a pair of Spock ears, you could wander the streets smoking pot, would you do it?
I am sure most here would say yes, seen as how they do it legal or not loophole or not.
It shouldn't matter if there's a loophole or not, certain things are just plain wrong.
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
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Do you think that someone should be able to ignore the basic human rights of a group of people, regardless of whether they can get away with it or not?
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
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What I would do and what GWB is doing might be two different things. Did that ever occur to you?
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Ray, people are asking you about these loopholes because you brought them up, making it sound like you think it's okay. You are the one that takes it personally whenever anybody brings up any of the atrocities that have been committed by your government. I sure wouldn't blame you or any other American for them, it's not like you have a say in the matter, is it?
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The question asks if it is okay to do something morally wrong because some loophole in the law allows it. If you consider smoking pot to be morally wrong then you essentially asked the same question.
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You see Ray, some people have a sense of right and wrong that comes from a conscience and actual thought. This is a good thing
So I would smoke pot, loophole or not, because it doesn't harm anybody else
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I would not stab people... ...it is morally wrong.
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You didn't even pay enough attention to realize where he was from, when he had said it to you so many time? Please pay attention Ray.
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
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The radiation levels in Iraq being over 2000x more than normal... hrm I really doubt that. Depleted Uranium is probably the safest form of Uranium, seen as how US military personnel touch it and work around it daily. It covers our tanks, our large cal. weapons shoot it, and it is pretty darn common. Either the radiation level in Iraq was super low to begin with or your source is feeding you a soup sandwich
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In the areas where depleted uranium was used in southern Iraq, a number of serious health problems have emerged among both soldiers and civilians.
For instance, there has been a 66% increase in leukaemias and cancers in southern Iraq. There has also been a marked increase in the numbers of children born with birth malformations, with horrific reports of 3 children in one family being born with severe congenital malformations.
There are also large numbers of soldiers who served in the Gulf with Allied forces and in the Iraqi army, who are now suffering from mysterious illnesses - often referred to as Gulf War syndrome. Many of these illnesses reflect those seen among Iraqi children and civilians. For example, of the 697,000 US troops who served in the Gulf, over 90,000 have reported medical problems. There are also defects reported among their newborn children. In a veterans community in Mississippi, 67% of the children were born with malformations.
The area of southern Scotland used to test depleted uranium weapons has the highest rate of childhood leukaemia in Scotland. The residents of the flats in Amsterdam into which the El Al jet crashed in 1992 have also reported mysterious illnesses (the jet had depleted uranium counterweights
The Confusion Squid has many tentacles
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As far as anyone who lives in either the UK or the Us having any moral obligation to obey the law whatsoever, don't make me laugh.
Quote:to me made it sound as if you were implying that the UK and the US targeted on a reguler basis children to be torched by an FAE or something. Perhaps you could be more careful next time or elaborate a bit better?
used WMDs on children
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
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In my opinion, if you are criminal convicted of a serious crime, as in rape and murder, you willingly forfeit any rights that you ever possessed. In a case like that and in that case alone, I feel that it is okay to ignore all basic human rights.
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Either he is being hypocritical of himself or he is flat out lying about his faith. Either way, who are you or I or anyone to judge him on the grounds of his religion?
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
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At the very least, the fact that he's either a hypocrite or lying about his religion should throw up the incredably important question of 'what else is he lying about?'
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I meant that I think people should be judging his religion in the way that it might influence his decisions
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
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Okay, I have lived in worse conditions during my time in the Corps
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who are to judge him on anything he did before running for office?
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You wouldn't be trying to suggest that you judge a whole religion based on his actions alone are you?
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
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I hope that makes things clearer
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Ray: Okay, I have lived in worse conditions during my time in the Corps
Simian:You joined the Corps of your own free will, so that's irrelevant innit?
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Ray: who are to judge him on anything he did before running for office?
Simian: Um, we are the millions of people whose lives are massively influenced by his honesty and good character or lack of it. That's who we are to judge.
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You wouldn't be trying to suggest that you judge a whole religion based on his actions alone are you?
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I don't think Bovril was suggesting that. I took it to mean it might be a good idea to judge a State Leader on whether his actions are overly influenced by his religion.
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
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As far as anyone who lives in either the UK or the Us having any moral obligation to obey the law whatsoever, don't make me laugh.
The Confusion Squid has many tentacles
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You joined the Corps of your own free will, so that's irrelevant innit?
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Um, we are the millions of people whose lives are massively influenced by his honesty and good character or lack of it. That's who we are to judge.
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I don't think Bovril was suggesting that. I took it to mean it might be a good idea to judge a State Leader on whether his actions are overly influenced by his religion.
Did that last sentence confuse you? It did me...
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I agree completely with Simian there.
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And there too.
Surely the honesty (or lack of) of a politician is a rather important matter? Or will you vote for your next president while remaining completely ignorant of if he's likely to keep his promises or tell you a pack of lies?
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Not at all, that's a completely different discussion. With my 20/20 hindsight, I think the word religion was the wrong one. Faith would have been much better.
I didn't mean to imply that Christianity in general should be judged, more GWB's personal interpretation, particularly how flexible it is and how he decides to ignore quite important parts of it.
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Yeah, that's what I meant, I just didn't write it very well.
Sorry, I was in a bit of a hurry
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think we would both agree that stabbing people is wrong, whether you're wearing green socks or not. Funny that you still think it's alright to drop bombs on people, so long as you're wearing the right kind of uniform...
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
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The people in G-Bay were not just selected at random. Ever hear the phrase guilty by assosiation? While they may or may not be guilty in a court system, they have been detained because of thier own free will choice to be around those that have done wrong.
Well, all of you in the car are detained for atleast a little while, whilst the cops do their thing.
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You know you do have a good point, but I think that the time to judge was during campaigne season not now.
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my question to you is should there only be state leaders who have no religious influence what so ever?
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.