Forums > Social Discussion > there should be a policing force in iraq.

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fireboy
An angry young man with a passon for metal
Location: Wagga Wagga, N.S.W, Australia
Member Since: 23rd Dec 2000
Total posts: 252
Posted:There should be a policing force in iraq and not a militant force.
why? when it boils down to the fine points it come to this.
police: they serve and protect.
military: shoot to kill.


what is everones thought on this issue?


Fireboy

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Astar
member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Member Since: 8th Nov 2002
Total posts: 1591
Posted:You know cops shoot to kill to. Technically soldiers are bound by very similar rules of engagement as cops in a situation like this. Some countrys soldiers (britain and canada, japan, norway, sweden, probably several other prominent ones I missed) are very well trained to act as police in the absence of police in a situation like this. The stupid american military just doesn't put much emphasis on it. Which is why it scares me. It's totally geared up for destruction and nothing else.

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Laytin
member
Location: bottom left of the US
Member Since: 3rd Nov 2003
Total posts: 111
Posted:Quote:
The stupid american military just doesn't put much emphasis on it. Which is why it scares me. It's totally geared up for destruction and nothing else



I would bet that you are basising this opinion off of what you see on CNN or heaven forbid BBC. Then again, I forget that you are Canadian, and the pride of your "mounties" is all you can hope for.

Now the US military isnt out to provide the Iraqi people with a police force. They have the Iraqi Police and are there supplimenting them in certian areas.

I am assuming that by police you mean everything from investigaters and detectives to busting some chump for speeding. That isnt the role of the US military, though they can and do it just like they do on US military bases.

Right now the Iraqi police are not full streangth, but they are getting there. With all things this will take time. peace


Wisdom calls aloud in the street, she raises her voice in the public squares; at the head of noisy streets she cries out, in the gateways of the city she makes her speech:

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fireboy
An angry young man with a passon for metal
Location: Wagga Wagga, N.S.W, Australia
Member Since: 23rd Dec 2000
Total posts: 252
Posted:ever seen the movie full metal jacket?
the same thing is going on in iraq and afganistan that happened in vietnam 30 years ago.


Fireboy

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Astar
member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Member Since: 8th Nov 2002
Total posts: 1591
Posted:I know what their training is in the area of peace keeping, and it's basicly non-existant.

I know what the other countrys training is, and it's like 30% of their training time.

BTW it's funny you mention mounties, when we sent mounties to suppliment peace keeprs in countrys like bosnia the results were outstanding.


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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:Quote:


I would bet that you are basising this opinion off of what you see on CNN or heaven forbid BBC.







i know this will go off topic so apologies. if required i'll start a new thread.





CNN or BBC.



i watched the twin towers destruction on CNN flicking to BBC world service and noticed a vast differene in the reporting. basically CNN said

"we must kill whoever did this"

and BBC said

"we must find out who did this and why, then we'll see"



now i can understand the differing viewpoints there on the basis of emotional clouding. so i decided to keep a close eye on both channels to see if this difference was continued.



and my (personal) findings so far.



the BBC is fairly impartial, and objective.

it's got a few blind spots. but as far as i can tell it pretty much tells it like it is.



this opinion comes from wwatching the news in 5 or 6 different countries and juging their news against the BBC version.



and CNN.

CNN is biased, xenophobic and judgemental(towards so called allies of the US government as well as enemies)



NEWS SHOULD NOT BE JUDGEMENTAL. thats why it's "news"



the moment it beccomes judgemental it becomes an talk show, just that the person doing the talking is not the one doing the thinking.



and so i always recommend travellers with access to sky/cable watch BBC. its not perfect. but it's about 1000% better than being told US government opinion is factual news.



Rob



(and incidentally this makes me think its pretty unlikely CNN were saying american soldiers were undeertrained grunts...but have been in NZ away from cable and getting tinycountrynews-very little world stuff)

EDITED_BY: bluecat (1071568805)


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WryTerra
WryTerra

The reason we say "European"
Location: Cheltenham
Member Since: 13th Jan 2003
Total posts: 912
Posted:I have two comments on this, firstly BBC is a remarkably impartial news service. I know I'm british, but I say this after consulting with friends world wide and observing news services from many nations. Secondly, the establishment of a new iraqi based police force began the day the statue came down.

"We have done the impossible and that makes us mighty" - Mal Reynolds

"I can't tell the difference between an electron and a cat" - Brother of a friend

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Laytin
member
Location: bottom left of the US
Member Since: 3rd Nov 2003
Total posts: 111
Posted:I differ from opinion on BBC, I satellite in the bar and I watch it more than CNN. I will say that I enjoy BBC for its variety, however I do think that it tends to sway a lot towards the "liberal" side of the house.

Back to the subject of police in Iraq, the US military is a war-fighting machine. This nobody can argue. Their main emphasis is not on police work, unlike the CRMP. Of course someone who trains day in and day out to do police type work will do better than someone who trains day in and day out to kill before being killed.

You can also not deny the fact that the US military has taken part in many "Police Actions".

If somebody else can do it better, then by all means let them go into Iraq and get shot at. Lets see how long it takes them to get things under control or pull out due to the casualty rate.


Wisdom calls aloud in the street, she raises her voice in the public squares; at the head of noisy streets she cries out, in the gateways of the city she makes her speech:

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Astar
member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Member Since: 8th Nov 2002
Total posts: 1591
Posted:Why isn't the emphasis police work?

When I look at americas military history I see, afghanistan. Police action.

Bosnia, Police action.

A few police actions in africa.

A police action in vietnam

A police action in korea.

Why is it the soldiers aren't learning how to mediate negotians between feuding neighbours, properly deter and arrest looters, How to be profesional in foreign countrys so you don't impose on their beliefs and cultures etc etc.. What good is it just to train them be nothing but agressors?

I think it would make sense for the US military to follow the example of canada and japan and england and form a proper peace keeping tier of it's military. Some ex-police officers and police instructors should be recruited to lead and instruct the soldiers of this new force in proper peace keeping methods. A officer exchange program should happen between america and other world powers with peace keepers, and regular competition should be held between all the peace keeping forces of the world to keep their skills sharpen their skills.



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Laytin
member
Location: bottom left of the US
Member Since: 3rd Nov 2003
Total posts: 111
Posted:The US military is a military! Japan doesnt have a military, they have an overexagerated police force, one with jets and small arms smile

Quote:
What good is it just to train them be nothing but agressors?




Because cops and pacifists die faster! To me that is self explanitory.

Quote:
Some ex-police officers and police instructors should be recruited to lead and instruct the soldiers of this new force in proper peace keeping methods.



hahahaha your so funny, 80% of the US police are ex-military!

Quote:
A officer exchange program should happen between america and other world powers with peace keepers, and regular competition should be held between all the peace keeping forces of the world to keep their skills sharpen their skills.




Some of this already happens, there are officer exchange programs, and though it is not limited to peace keeping forces, the US does train with allies world wide.


Wisdom calls aloud in the street, she raises her voice in the public squares; at the head of noisy streets she cries out, in the gateways of the city she makes her speech:

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fireboy
An angry young man with a passon for metal
Location: Wagga Wagga, N.S.W, Australia
Member Since: 23rd Dec 2000
Total posts: 252
Posted:taken from a letter from michael moore.com that he recieved from a mother whos son is at the iraqi war.
Quote:
have also heard from their friends and relatives, and from other veterans. A mother writing on behalf of her son (whose name we have withheld) wrote:

My son said that this is the worst it's been since the "end" of the war. He said the troops have been given new rules of engagement, and that they are to "take out" any persons who aggress on the Americans, even if it results in "collateral" damage. Unfortunately, he did have to kill someone in self defense and was told by his commanding officer Good kill.

"My son replied You just don't get it, do you?

"Here we are...Vietnam all over again.





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Astar
member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Member Since: 8th Nov 2002
Total posts: 1591
Posted:The rules of engagement are classified and all out going mail is monitored and censored, and michael moore is a notorious liar.

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