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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Latest Update:



Just discovered a few more club swinging resources:



Simpy Circus Club Swinging.



Plus two down loadable books on club swinging:



Indian club-swinging: one, two, and three club juggling by Frank E Miller (1900). This one seems particularly good with a bit on Snakes and Electric Light (bulb) Club-Swinging.



Indian club swinging : by an amateur - Gardiner, Benjamin (1884)













Update: You can now download a copy of Anna Jillings book "Modern Club Swinging and Pole Spinning" from her site at Cosmos Juggling.



There had been a bit of interest shown in club/torch swinging recently so perhaps it's a good time to start a general discussion on club swinging.



I really enjoy clubs because I like the symmetry of club swinging, and I think they teach you the natural pathways for the body movements required for good poi/staff technique (if you know what I mean).



However, it's taking me ages to learn the proper grips, especially the ring grip, and I sometimes wonder if I'm wasting my time learning the proper grips. I've noticed that quite a few people hold their clubs with the club between the first and middle fingers, and this grip makes it easy for poi like moves. Some club's even have a groove around the knob to facilitate this grip (don't start).



I've always followed Daina the Huntresse'srecommendations "You may have the urge to hold the torch between you first and middle fingers instead of the thumb and first finger, but resist! The ball-and-socket grip will give you a lot move flexibility once you're used to it.



So I wondering what grips are people using, and is it worth persevering with the proper grips???



Update. Some of these links were getting buried so I've moved them up here for better access:



Hop links: Pele posted these links a while ago, and they are well worth reading.

here

here

here

and here

Ade dug out this great post on clubs

Some interesting stuff on waistwraps



Fountain:as described by Diana the Huntress



Some other resources:

Anna Jillings site on clubs and poles

The highly recommended Gandini DVD for club swinging.

Ben Schoenberg's Serious Juggling site

Floating on Quiddity: Juggling Pages for great info on Clubs, Fire Chains, Staff and Meteor.





Martial arts & historic clubs:

There are some interesting historic articles on clubs, wands and stuff here (PT Vol 2) really wink

Indian Clubs

Learn about short power drills. There are also some old videos and stuff if you dig around.



The Book of Club Swinging by Ben Richter, Schatz's Club Swinging book and Anna Jillings book are also good sources.

EDITED_BY: Stone (1209714529)


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


BamBam
BamBam

Pooh-Bah
Location: London
Member Since: 1st Dec 2001
Total posts: 1810
Posted:Ohh my god I've just discovered club swinging

I'm going to get a club swinging DVD I think because understanding written explinations have left me a bit

Cole any chance you want to share what you know with a Bammy

Bammy


A kiss blown is a kiss wasted, the only kind of kiss is a kiss tasted.

I'm a woman. We don't say what we want, but we reserve the right to be pissed off if we don't get it. That's what makes us so fascinating and not just a LITTLE bit scary.


coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:you can borrow my gandini dvd if ya like

i know very little about clubswinging apart from knowing that i need to spend more time learning snakes and spirals.
have been dropping hints to a few people so someone should teach me some more soon...

all i ever swing with clubs is synch outward shoulder snakes.
but even with josh's super-tips on asynch ones my head still twists into a messy knot when i try them.


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


BamBam
BamBam

Pooh-Bah
Location: London
Member Since: 1st Dec 2001
Total posts: 1810
Posted:Lord Coleman that would be splendid, thank you.

Kevin came to spitz on Tuesday night, so he spent some time trying to teach me. The got the patients of a saint

Snakes.....crazy hard!!!!!! but pretty to watch someone who can actually do them

I need to invest in come clubs, so does anyone have any advice?? they have to like being dropped (lots).

Bammy


A kiss blown is a kiss wasted, the only kind of kiss is a kiss tasted.

I'm a woman. We don't say what we want, but we reserve the right to be pissed off if we don't get it. That's what makes us so fascinating and not just a LITTLE bit scary.


coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:
Non-Https Image Link


a tenner for three from oddballs.

sorted.


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


BamBam
BamBam

Pooh-Bah
Location: London
Member Since: 1st Dec 2001
Total posts: 1810
Posted:Ohhhhhhh but I wanted yellow ones .....




Bammy


Lord Coleman you have a PM awaiting your inspection!


A kiss blown is a kiss wasted, the only kind of kiss is a kiss tasted.

I'm a woman. We don't say what we want, but we reserve the right to be pissed off if we don't get it. That's what makes us so fascinating and not just a LITTLE bit scary.


coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:i believe they come in yellow too darling...

bloody princesses.


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


BamBam
BamBam

Pooh-Bah
Location: London
Member Since: 1st Dec 2001
Total posts: 1810
Posted:I'm now the proud owner of THREE spanking new clubs (yep looks like I might have to learn to juggle them too).

So I'm on a swinging roll. Cole any chance I could grab the DVD from you on Tuesday???

Bammy


A kiss blown is a kiss wasted, the only kind of kiss is a kiss tasted.

I'm a woman. We don't say what we want, but we reserve the right to be pissed off if we don't get it. That's what makes us so fascinating and not just a LITTLE bit scary.


NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Yo bammers, the gandini vid is pretty cool.

And I think that club swinging would look HOT on you.

(Don't forget to teach me everything you know after you learn it!)


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


BamBam
BamBam

Pooh-Bah
Location: London
Member Since: 1st Dec 2001
Total posts: 1810
Posted:Ohh my god clubs are fun...and if you have three you can juggle em

Bammys back


A kiss blown is a kiss wasted, the only kind of kiss is a kiss tasted.

I'm a woman. We don't say what we want, but we reserve the right to be pissed off if we don't get it. That's what makes us so fascinating and not just a LITTLE bit scary.


bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:hehe.


does that mean when you have 5 you an juggle three and swing five?




Holistic Spinner (I hope)


BamBam
BamBam

Pooh-Bah
Location: London
Member Since: 1st Dec 2001
Total posts: 1810
Posted:Ahh you must have missed me doing that on Tuesday night. ......not to be repeated

Pesky cats

Bammy


A kiss blown is a kiss wasted, the only kind of kiss is a kiss tasted.

I'm a woman. We don't say what we want, but we reserve the right to be pissed off if we don't get it. That's what makes us so fascinating and not just a LITTLE bit scary.


bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:remind me to try out some more three club swinging when i get to the LJC....


but i would like to report you to a mod for calling me pesky... the cheek of it




Holistic Spinner (I hope)


Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Just bumping the O'l club swinging thread for Tom and all the other "enlightened" souls that I have met recently wave

Also, there are a number of club swinging links in the first post of this thread, and Anna Jillings club swinging book can be found under club swinging at her site.

Cheers for now beerchug



If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:Hi Tom! you is one of the mostest technically skilled twirlers that have picked up a fire skip rope! peace

Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always


Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:hey everyone,



been breaking out some new stuff this last weekend.



I've been working the snakes in opposite directions in the weave plane (as opposed to wall plane which is how all traditional snakes work) alot lately. Many nice reversal illusions are possible when you combine snakes and pendula; as when you are swinging alternate pendula in front of you in weave plane, you can take one or the other or both directly into a snake. Combine that with snake reversals and you have a lot of interesting things you can do just by changing directions on the two snakes and/or pendula.



The next thing I was working on was reversal throws. I'm guessing everyone is familiar with Ben richters Swing Thing move? its the one where when you are swinging a large weave to the front of you but instead of crossing down with the lead hand you bring the follow club up under the armpit and throw it over your shoulder while continuing the lead giant circle *on that side* until you clear the others path and then catch it. Usually the thrown club does a single spin in the air. ANYHOW, when at the BJC a year or so ago, I saw this french girl doing a double Swing Thing by bringing in the lead club and underarm throwing it just a fraction of a second after the follow club is thrown, thus creating a waterfall over the shoulder <juggler> split-time single over the shoulder</juggler>. very beautiful. If you bring them in together you can get a paired over shoulder throw which is nice too. All this has been discussed before. what I was doing which I dont think has been discussed is bringing both in as if to throw a paired but instead throwing the follow club and tap reversing the lead club off the underside of your bicep - this brings you straight out into alternate direction weave swinging, or 1/4 turn into butterfly. If you do the same move but starting from alternate direction weave plane you can bring them both back into weave direction in a couple of short hops over the shoulder.



the other variation on the reversal throw which I thought was fun was where you do the swing thing, but instead of catching the thrown club and continuing it on it its path, you quickly catch it and throw it back over your shoulder and into its orginal position; follow club in a giant weave.



the other thing which was fun but not twirling related was manipulating three clubs held as a staff in a row. There are some interesting effects which have some illusion merit when you start flipping the segments individually while twirling/manipulating the staff, but I'm not at all sure about this stuff so I wont go into it yet.



hope ppl are still having fun with clubs - I know I am smile



(corrections added for DSS and Glass)



Josh





--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!


Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:Josh you're playing with mindfuck stuff there !
pendulums with snakes with tap backs with throws eek... smile
I've gotta try those out this arbo.

love the waaterfall idea

been getting mikes mess (3 club cross follow, with the other club in the air) pretty good recently, starting to work on varions, maybe with snakes.

hugs
A



DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:Quote:
I'm guessing everyone is familiar with Ben richters Swing Thing move? its the one where when you are swinging a large weave to the front of you but instead of crossing down with the lead hand you bring the follow club up under the armpit and throw it over your shoulder while continuing the lead giant circle *on that side* until you clear the others path and then catch it. Usually the thrown club does a single spin in the air



Afraid I don't know it. Ok this is my understranding of what your saying....correct me if I'm wrong....

As left hand about to cross back over to right hand side on cross and follow, the right hand moves to the left arm pit and throws the clubunder the arm. The left hand then STAYS on left instead of coming across to right.

If this is right then I can see how you throw the right under and over the shoulder. I can't understand how you do the double throw you say the girl did at BJC though. How would the left be throw just before the right unless the time is changed or something? confused

Erm....am I even on the right track here. If I can understand this, then I look forward to understanding the other cool stuff you were talking about. cool beerchug

James


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.


Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:right is thrown first in both cases, my bad - I'll correct my other post

smile

Josh


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!


Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Hi Josh, thanks for the description on the reversal illusions and the waterfall. They look neat and are great to watch. Many thanks for returning my favourite celtic rug and tarp smile



I'm still having fun, though I havent done anything esoteric yet. Lately, Ive been exploring half shoulder snakes, especially the second half inwards snake, which looks a bit like a spiral. To add a bit of variation, Ive also been doing the first half snake, completing the circle (still in front) and then continue into the second half. Another variation that Im trying is combining first and second half snakes in parallel.



Whats everyone else been up to???







If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:I just posted this bit on Waist Wraps in poi moves, but any excuse for a bump.

Something I noticed recently about my WWs was that I wasnt doing a proper btb carry. Instead of having my wrists and the poi wicks pointing up on the btb carry, I was being slack and letting them point towards the ground on the btb carry. I find that keeping the poi pointed up on the carry makes it a lot easier to do the WWs. Has anyone else noticed this, or am I crapping on as usual?


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:Yeah I noticed what you mean, but it only seems to happen for me when Im going slow enough that the clubs dont generate enough centrifugal force to keep them in plane against gravity, and My hands are tired/lazy. So I havent had that problem for a while tongue

Josh



--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!


Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Thanks Josh, lazy hands and gravity hey. I sometimes wonder what it would be like to spin without gravity. I know wot u mean though. For me, it has been a struggle to get supple enough for btb wws. Now that Im starting to get them going Ive been trying to refine them, and as part of that process I noticed that I waz dragging the clubs on the carry. So now I trying to correct this, and heaps of other stuff rolleyes

This is more of an exercise to improve my parallel snakes, but lately Ive been going from parallel shoulder snakes into a windmill and back. CU smile



If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:Quote:
For me, it has been a struggle to get supple enough for btb ww&#8217;s



I'm not sure if I'll ever get supple enough eek biggrin

I have since last post made my own clubs with aluminium tubing, and with a nice set of chrome knobs at the base ubbrollsmile much better than the plastic ones I was using to learn with ubbtickled



Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Hi Ade, chrome knobs! They sound cool.

Quote:
I'm not sure if I'll ever get supple enough?

Ade, if I can do it anyone can. True, it takes a while but you just need to practice a little bit each day and watch how things get improve.



If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:things are improving indeed stone smile
I am getting the hip and shoulder snakes to work nicely for me now



Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Hi Ade, glad to hear you are getting the hip and shoulder snakes working. Have u tried combining hip and shoulder snakes together for a travelling (rope snake)? There is an easy one in Schatz book; the false rope snake or something. I think you do a hip snake and then go up for a first half shoulder snake. Have fun smile




If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:Ok. I can nearly do all my poi moves with clubs without de-capitating people so I may be able to contribute more that spell checks to this thread smile

I learnt a truely joyous move on saterday....full credit to Kevin from London cool

Swing parallel straight arm pendula, wall plane. When clubs are parallel to ground and pointing left. Put the head on the right club into the left hand on top of the left clubs handle, making sure that the knob of the club which was in the right hand is on the outside of your arm (not between your arm and body but on the opposite side)

Now swing back to the right (in the same way - straight armed)with nothing in right hand and what appears to be an odd looking staff type object in the left hand.

When you get to the opposite parallel to ground position on the right hand side take the left hand's club in to the right hand and on the swing back down to the left let the club (who's head's in your left hand but originally started in your right hand slip down through your fingers into normal position.

This move will obviously require gloves or aerotechs to be effective but it's too cool not to share in my opinion cool


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.


Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:Nice move DSS!

Glad to hear that clubs are doing it for you smile

Josh


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!


Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Cool move DSS. I don't do many pendulum type moves yet, so thanks, and look forward to hearing a few more moves in the future.

What's everyone else bean up to? How are them chrome knobs Ade? And Rozi, still swinging those Mr Babaches. I've been thinking about getting some new swinging torches, and I was just going to buy some juggling torches; so I can swing like Josh, hehehe wink Then I saw some Dube swinging torches at Juggleart for $65AUD ea; which is not a bad price for a Dube item. They have good balance, and seem to be a good compromise b/t a juggling and a swinging torch, but they only have small 2 inch wicks. Not that size matters wink but I'm finally used to the cathedrals on me Mr Babaches. Dunno, anyone running Dube swinging torches?

I've been playing with Schatz's Hip Coffee Grinders which are precursors to the lower front and back fountains; and Ade, note that they provide good practice for btb tongue

This is how the front one goes. Follow to the right - Lower back circles with right; back of waist, arm-over-front with left; lower front right; and front of waist, arm-over-front with left.

This is how the back one goes. Follow to the right - Lower back circle with right; back of waist, arm-over-back with left; lower front right; and front of waist, arm-over-back with left.

From there I've just started combining the 'hip grinders" as a practice exercise. So, say on the right side, with the right hand, I do continuous front and back hip circles. Then, still on the right side, I just bring my left hand into the circles by taking my left arm in front and then behind the back. You can do this for each hip, right and left hand.

Double and alternating movements: I posted some stuff on double and alternating movements in Glass' You Can Go To The Ball thread, in poi moves, viz: for opposite direction moves like the butterfly, you are doing a double movement when both poi are swung together. For example, double behind the shoulder circles (left and right are doing shoulder circles at the same time), then down to double lower fronts (left and right hands doing lower front circles together). With double-time, I think you just do 2 circles, like two in a set together, two upper fronts with each hand.

The partner (for want of a better word) of a double movement is an alternating movement. The reel is an example of an alternating movement. With the reel you do a right shoulder circle (behind the shoulder) and a left long arm circle simultaneously, and right long arm circle and left shoulder circle simultaneously. Alternation can also include up and down movement, as with the travelling moves. There are lots of ways to change from an alternating movement to double movement. You can for example, do two shoulder circles with left, while the right does a long arm and shoulder circle.

I associate the parallel and follow movements with same direction (weave) type moves, and also the split-shift and follow-shift. For example, you are swinging parallel lower front and lower back circles. If from the lower front circles, the right does a lower back circle, the left a lower front, the right lower front, left lower back, you get the shift or split. From there u can move into waist circles like the "lower back waist circle, arm over the back" for fountains, and other anachronistic stuff. Anyone else use or want to explain the split-shift???

Cheers for now, and hey I'm back on line after 12 mts of libraries and Internet cafes, yea beerchug




If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:wooohoo, nice one Stone ubbrollsmile

clubs going well, I love the chrome knobs, the weight is just lovely.

am working on hip to shoulder spirals, and love the descriptions of the hip coffee grinders - cheers beerchug

yay for you being back online ubbrollsmile



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