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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Latest Update:



Just discovered a few more club swinging resources:



Simpy Circus Club Swinging.



Plus two down loadable books on club swinging:



Indian club-swinging: one, two, and three club juggling by Frank E Miller (1900). This one seems particularly good with a bit on Snakes and Electric Light (bulb) Club-Swinging.



Indian club swinging : by an amateur - Gardiner, Benjamin (1884)













Update: You can now download a copy of Anna Jillings book "Modern Club Swinging and Pole Spinning" from her site at Cosmos Juggling.



There had been a bit of interest shown in club/torch swinging recently so perhaps it's a good time to start a general discussion on club swinging.



I really enjoy clubs because I like the symmetry of club swinging, and I think they teach you the natural pathways for the body movements required for good poi/staff technique (if you know what I mean).



However, it's taking me ages to learn the proper grips, especially the ring grip, and I sometimes wonder if I'm wasting my time learning the proper grips. I've noticed that quite a few people hold their clubs with the club between the first and middle fingers, and this grip makes it easy for poi like moves. Some club's even have a groove around the knob to facilitate this grip (don't start).



I've always followed Daina the Huntresse'srecommendations "You may have the urge to hold the torch between you first and middle fingers instead of the thumb and first finger, but resist! The ball-and-socket grip will give you a lot move flexibility once you're used to it.



So I wondering what grips are people using, and is it worth persevering with the proper grips???



Update. Some of these links were getting buried so I've moved them up here for better access:



Hop links: Pele posted these links a while ago, and they are well worth reading.

here

here

here

and here

Ade dug out this great post on clubs

Some interesting stuff on waistwraps



Fountain:as described by Diana the Huntress



Some other resources:

Anna Jillings site on clubs and poles

The highly recommended Gandini DVD for club swinging.

Ben Schoenberg's Serious Juggling site

Floating on Quiddity: Juggling Pages for great info on Clubs, Fire Chains, Staff and Meteor.





Martial arts & historic clubs:

There are some interesting historic articles on clubs, wands and stuff here (PT Vol 2) really wink

Indian Clubs

Learn about short power drills. There are also some old videos and stuff if you dig around.



The Book of Club Swinging by Ben Richter, Schatz's Club Swinging book and Anna Jillings book are also good sources.

EDITED_BY: Stone (1209714529)


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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iain
member
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Member Since: 26th Sep 2002
Total posts: 30
Posted:The first and middle finger grip is good for a funny little move called a flurry, but not much else really. Plus it hurts a lot if you do it too much. ( I.E. mastering Flurries, ha ha ).

For front circles ( with arms down ) I find I use the ring grip with my index finger loose though because for some reason it is les likely to hurt my index finger joint, and I find it allows the index finger to extend out quickly for stopps, direction changes, and any toss moves ( the fulcrum of your index finger is the control point for club tosses. )

For back circles I use a ball and socket grip where the socket is all my fingers curled loosely around the ball. Where your arm is will determine which grip is right for which circle. ( I.E. if your right arm is across your body parrallel to the ground and pointing left, the grips need to be reversed. )

I'm no expert, but I got the above from my buddy Sling who got it from the man himself, Allan Jacobs years ago. I did have the privilege of meeting Allan at a Gizmo Guys shows a few years back. ( For those who don't know, he is one of the crew that originally brought club swinging back from obscurity in the early eighties. And a kick ass juggler and performer. )

You know what would be really handy is some clear close up video footage where you can actually see the hands up close.

Iain


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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Oops, perhaps a nice mod could move this thread to Other Toys. Thanks

Thanks Iain. I have been dropping the clubs a bit recently; that's a good thing?

Any advice on that pesky outward hip (draw) spiral. I'm missing something important when I try to go behind (after completing the circles in front)if you know what I mean.

[ 30 September 2002, 09:27: Message edited by: Stone ]


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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iain
member
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Member Since: 26th Sep 2002
Total posts: 30
Posted:Yes it's a good thing to be dropping them! That's because the motion should use as much of the clubs natural momentum as possible, so that as the club goes through your hand, your grip is only as tight as it needs to be to keep it there. Thus, you should be erring on the too loose side sometimes, meaning a club goes flying.

For the outward spiral, this is especially important. For you to switch grips, the club has to be really coasting, allowing you to move your fingers while it just merrily sails around it's circle. I'd suggest trying it at various speeds, including really slow, and try it with your hand as loose as you can get it. ( Drop some clubs I mean, = )

Iain


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FireMikeZ
FireMikeZ

Laguna dude
Location: Laguna, California, US
Member Since: 24th Jul 2002
Total posts: 1438
Posted:hey, nice new thread on a new toy in our active repertoire!

i have little experience with clubs myself, so i'm gonna enjoy seein who uses them, what moves y'all do, & maybe pickin some up. . . good to have Iain with us here now, gotta see some live pix or even video of you playing clubs, dude, maybe you can even write an article, ya know we got a damn good series of poi lessons with little videos so peeps can really see what the move descriptions are all about, & their rhythm? ya wanna set the world on fire with clubs, let's get some club lessons up there too!

Stone, ya got any good pix?


molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

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flash fire
flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 25th Jan 2001
Total posts: 2758
Posted:would you like me to move this to the Other Toys forum for you, then?

HoP Posting Guidelines
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Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:In another thread (in the poi section) wooden spoons are being discussed as a tool to help learn the weave. Just wondering if wooden spoons could be used as a substitute club training tool - or would it be better to just use clubs?

I ask, 'cause I'm not that interested (at this stage) to learn clubs, but can see how some of the movements would improve my poi work and if I could get away with using a spoon, well all the cheaper....


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Rozi
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Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted:I have just started to learn clubs myself, and have translated all my regular poi moves across, but want to extend what I know.

Do you know any good web or book resources where I can pick up some more info?


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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iain
member
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Member Since: 26th Sep 2002
Total posts: 30
Posted:Sure I guess moving this makes sense. ( Or start a torch/club section, hint hint ;P )

Um, wooden spoons would really not work well. I mean, you could probably do it, just like I can devil stick pretty much any linear object, but it will be hard and not conductive to learning the skill well. A better cheap substitue would be to make your own with some dowel, some kind of weight on the bulb end, and some kind of smooth round ball that fits easily in your hand ( say an inch or inch and a half across ) screwed to the other end for a grip. I think you can find wooden balls that you can screw on to things pretty easily at hardware stores. You need the weight at the end and the knob for learning proper technique.

As to resources, I think the best is probably the out of print video ( I think it was by Allan Jacobs ) and the Jillings book, also out of print. But you can at least order the Jillings book as photocopies here:

http://www.semlyen.net/cosmosjugglers/welcome.htm
br>
Also, some one mentioned elsewhere that the Gandini video was really good.

http://www.mediacircus.biz/
br>
I'd sure like to hear of any good online video clips, but I haven't found any yet. You could also look at the rec.juggling usenet group, as well as www.juggling.org and www.jugglingdb.com

Iain

Iain


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Cassandra
Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 4224
Posted:Good day

Flash is right, this actually would be much more cosy in the "other toys" forum

Anyway , I just wanted to recommend and amazing DVD for club swinging released by the Gandini juggling troop.
I have had the opportunity to watch it in Paris and found it highly interesting, very clear . It gives the basic of club swinging, but also opens new possibilities.

very helpfull to adapt to poi afterwards

If you can buy it / take a look at it, please do. you will not regret it

shine on
cassandra


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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iain
member
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Member Since: 26th Sep 2002
Total posts: 30
Posted:You were the someone! Ha ha. I may just order that, there seems to me be not a whole lot available.

Iain


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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Flash is a nice mod. And from memory, had some good hints on buying round draw knobs from the hardware.

FireMike, there is a nice club pic in the gallery at Concentrate.

Hi Ade, another alternative might be to invest in some of those white, one piece, plastic clubs like they sell at juggleart.

I think they call them universal or beginner clubs because you can use them for club swinging (they have a knob) and if you buy three you can learn to juggle (if you don't already). That's what I did. They are about $15 (aud) each and will last forever.

Rozi, like Iain said, the Jillings site has some good info. Juggleart (as well as other places) sell The Book of Club Swinging by Ben Richter and Schatz's Club Swinging book. I brought Shatz's book then found I had to go back and get Richter's Intro book.

Interestingly enough, Juggleart generally recommend Richter's book for learning poi. I suspect it's because they don't have any poi books.

Hi Cass, looks like there might be a run on that Gandini club swinging DVD.

Cheers

[ 18 October 2002, 10:26: Message edited by: Stone ]


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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iain
member
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Member Since: 26th Sep 2002
Total posts: 30
Posted:That *is* a really nice torch swingin pic! Are you part of Concentrate, Stone?

Yeah the Schatz book is weird, hard to read, but good stuff in there. I've never seen the Richter book. I'll have to find that one. I've seen a friend's copy of Jilling's and it looks very well done.

As to buying cheap clubs, what you want are narrow bodied one piece plastic with *round* knobs. They don't have to be full circles ( on the knobs ) but should be close to full circles. However, the body should be slim. Most decorated one piece clubs are "american" which means a very fat body, much harder to swing. You want a euro body with an american knob essentially. Two good options cheap are:

- the "spotlight" from www.renegadejuggling.com
- the "airflight" from Dube.

If you want something better for juggling ( and pricier ) but that you can spin too, the Todd Smith Euros are really nice clubs with much rounder knobs than most upscale euro clubs ( though it is not as smooth ). Also Radical Fish makes cool looking clubs with fairly round knobs.

One of my favourite dealers is Ben Schoenberg from Serious Juggling. Really good guy, deserves our business! www.seriousjuggling.com

iain.


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Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:Thanks Ian, thanks Stone, invaluable advice - I've actually got some of those plastic juggling clubs - but never use them looks like it's time to get them out.

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flash fire
flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 25th Jan 2001
Total posts: 2758
Posted:I'm gonna move this to Other Toys

Thanks Stone. You get points for that.


HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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FireMikeZ
FireMikeZ

Laguna dude
Location: Laguna, California, US
Member Since: 24th Jul 2002
Total posts: 1438
Posted:thanx & props, flash fire! (no points needed, it's true, windfall on the fine side of the fire for us all)

will check out those pics next week, con mucho gusto!


molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Thanks Flash. Much appreciated

Iain, I thought the torch swinging pic was pretty cool. Nothing fancy, just nice clean arm and shoulder circles (that’s what they look like to me).

I’m not part of Concentrate, but they are nice people. I’m certainly happy with my innercore, three-piece staff. Concentrate also sell plastic club knobs that screw into the ends of their three-piece staff. It’s a good idea, except you could end up with fairly long torches. I haven’t tried long torches. There are pics of their staff, knobs, devil sticks a stuff in the hop shop.

The Richter book is an introduction book, and should be available from most juggling suppliers. Schatz drives me crazy, but you have to admit he knew his stuff. I haven’t made it to the pendulums yet, still working on parallel shoulder snakes (they are hard!). I have heard rumours about a second edition of Jilling's book.

That was good info on club selection. I’ve been looking around for a good juggling club, that you could also spin with. I asked my local supplier, and all they said was “you can’t get a club that does everything”. So I’ll keep an eye out for the Todd Smith Euros and the Radical Fish clubs.

I am running Mr Babashe torches at present and they seem ok. I was planning to buy another set so I would have a spare, and enough clubs to try juggling torches. I suspect they aren’t the best clubs to juggle, but hey they juggle chainsaws and other weird stuff, don’t they? Ultimately, and very much in the future I would like to juggle three staffs.

Will try and come up with a serious question on the hip spirals over the w/e, but I’m gunna be in and out a lot in the next month or so.

Catch ya


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Iain, I think I've nearly got those outward hip spirals sorted, but some clarification would be appreciated.

I was going for a whole circle in front, but it's probably only a half circle. Like, say starting from the position in front where you hand is horizontal pointing away from you body (club facing inwards). You only do about a half of a circle before swinging the club out horizontal, and then into position to start the circle behind. Is that it?

On another tack. I was wondering what people thought of the "other snake grip". I sometimes use it when I'm just fooling around or trying to learn new moves.

The "other snake grip" being the one where you clasp the neck with your hand below the ball, and form a ring with your thumb and forefinger; ball on the outside. It's an alternative to having one or two fingers over the ball.

G'day Cass. I checked out the dvd, then remembered I didn't have a dvd player.

I think it would be interesting to hear any problems. Even if it's just a complaint about grips or something. Because I've noticed that my grips have improved heaps, since Iain suggested that dropping was part of the learning process.

Ade, Rozi, anyone, how's it going? Iain, you have been giving lot's of great advice, have you got any questions?


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Rozi
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Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted:Slowly I have been having some fun, and experimenting, like seeing how flat a circle I can make going under my arm and then over. I am about to delve into it a bit more thoroughly now, and we will see how we go.

I have had a couple of people borrow them, and they are really a love it or hate toy. People either go "wow" and have their eyes fill with lust, or almost throw them back at you and run...


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:Hey Stone, Rozi, Iian, Cass, FireMike, going well indeed I quite like playing with clubs!

Dropped clubs seems to be a speciality of mine at the moment, still playing with grips so clubs keep flying all over the house I pulled out my plastic juggling clubs, and they seem to be pretty good clubs, with a nice round end and good length. Just playing with poi moves at the moment till I get the grip bit sorted out. It seems so natural to hold it between the index and middle fingers, that I'm finding it difficult to want to persist with attempting other grips.


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Stone
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Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Rozi slow is good. Think it was santana2 who said "that if you learn slowly then the small muscles learn as well as the big muscles". I think this advice is particularly important, especially for the snakes.

I hadn’t thought of trying flat (horizontal?) circles. Think I've been spending too much time learning from books, and not enough time experimenting.

Iain, hope I haven't scared you off with those spirals. I'm none too good with descriptions. I read your tips again, and think we may be confusing snakes with spirals. Hey, I got that fulcrum thing, it works a treat.

Ade, know wot you mean about the grips. It's even more disconcerting when you see other club swingers really cutting it up with that first and middle finger grip while you're struggling with ball and socket/ring grips. Clubs are a long haul.

I will try and post some poi/club moves over the w/e


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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iain
member
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Member Since: 26th Sep 2002
Total posts: 30
Posted:Stone is right, slow is good. It's worth experimenting with speed from as slow as possible to up tempo. That'll really help you hone in on the clubs natural momentum. When you go slow you can really feel the momentum.

And hang in there with the proper grips. I've seen stuff done lightning fast that would just be impossible without using the right grips, so don't worry it'll be worth it!

Iain


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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Hi clubbers, still scaring "the neighbours" with low flying missiles

I haven't been too fussed about the statuesque pose, of clubs of old, preferring just to go with the flow, but I was checking out some moves in "the window" recently and they aren’t like I imagined. My left arm and hand still need a fair bit of work.

So I was wondering if it was a good idea to start getting a bit more ridged. Perhaps even forcing things a bit. Any thoughts appreciated.

I thought I'd post a few poi/club type moves because its good to try the odd description, and someone might even find em useful. Before we get into descriptions, I think some "terms of reference" would be a good idea.

My suggestion would be to check out Simon Marquis' Fire Chains and Poi site. I think he has done a terrific job on explanations and descriptions, and you can find lot's of good stuff there. His site is also linked to HOP, so I don't see any problems. Like we learn from lot's of different sources, as well as watching, reading and doing.

A few random moves:

1. OK, this one is like an alternating outward poi butterfly, at hip level. I think it's they called alternating hip circles or something.

Anyhow, you start with outward circles, and then start alternating the clubs. One club behind, and one in-front.

Now, when you left club goes behind try turning your trunk to the right (or even better, step to the right). Both clubs should be at hip level, a little out from the body going in opposite directions, creating cute little wheels.

Then take another step to the right, and you go into the alternating hip circles for a few beats. Then right again for the wheels, and then back to where you started. Fairly basic, but they look good and you can do em all day. Well me mates like em.

2. Bit on pinwheels. I never got the staff pinwheel sorted, but the club pinwheel looks good, even if it is a bit harder than it seems.

It's another club in-front, club behind move, except this time you do circles in-front (with one hand) and circles behind the back (with the other hand) at the same time. Both clubs going the same-way, split-time.

Alternate between which hand you have in-front and which hand you have behind the back ie. right in-front for a few beats, then left hand in-front for a few beats, say with both clubs going to the right. Also, try it going to the left.

Keep clubs a bit lower than belly button height in-front (centre of body), and keep an equivalent position with the other hand behind the back (btb). Keep in split-time and you should get the pinwheel effect.

3. Some cross-training. This a feet-together poi move that I pillaged from clubs because I haven't managed to get the inward snake working properly. I suspect the proper club move is a lot more difficult.

This one is based on the regular (inward) poi butterfly (b/f) and there are two part. So starting with the inward butterfly, do a few beats in-front, go btb for a beat, then in-front for a beat.

Ok repeat, and this time when you bring the poi in-front, do a beat and then take the poi up for an overhead b/f (behind the head), and back down. Ok, that one kinda flows, and you can "whip-it" up and down real fast, till ya crash out

Now part two. For a neat variation, instead of doing the overhead b/f do two circles/beats behind your back, shoulder high.

So, instead of doing the overhead b/f when you bring the poi up, stick your arms out wide, and let the poi swing btb, shoulder high and do a circle/beat. Then still btb, and in the same movement, bend the elbows and bring your arms in a bit, and you should get another circle/beat (more behind-the-head this time), before going forward. Come forward and continue down.

When I started doing this one I found it opened up lot's of b/f combos.

Hope they make sense. Catch ya next week


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Rozi
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Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted:I am going to have to studu these carefully. I got the schatz book from juggleart, & it is a long slog. I think jillings might be next on the purchase list.

It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Hi Rozi, don't get too fussed about the moves I've posted. Schatz is a bloody long slog, and then some. If you get stuck with his description, just yell out.

You might be able to beg borrow or steal a copy of the Jillings book. Don't forget Richter's book, also available at juggleart. Cheers


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:Hi Stone, thanks for posting those explanations - good job Sounds like you're having heaps of fun!

I've managed to get my hands to accept the bathtub claw grip (ring grip? holding between thumb and index finger) - wasn't comfortable for days, but I can see the advantages now.

I'm also playing with what I'm going to call, for lack of the knowing the proper terms, an alternating hip spiral, but both hands are in front of my body. Still working on getting my left hand to cooperate behind, so no joy there yet.

Yep, I like the idea of turning your hips 90 degrees, I found this helped a great deal in getting my left (non dominant) hand to swing the club a nice circle. It helped me sort out the planes that the clubs travel in - I really think in terms of planes when learning a new toy or moves....

How's it going Rozi?


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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Ade, Rozi, Iain and other enlightened swingers, great to see some enthusiasm for the ol art of clubs.

Rozi's post gave me an idea, and I have a suggestion. If everyone had a copy of the Schatz book, the we could work through it collectively. A post a week or something, starting at page 1 or straight into the snakes or whatever.

Scahtz, is freely available, but it's a difficult book to figure out, especially in isolation. It is, however, sequential and nothing if not is consistent. Anyway, the book is cheap (10 bucks aus) and freely available. Otherwise we could just go into arm circles, move on to reels, fountains, snakes and whatever. Wot do people think?

Ade, the thumb and index finger grip would be the ring grip. The bathtub claw grip would be the ball and socket grip. I still have trouble with the ring grip. I asked a friend, who does martial arts, and his instructor said to use what ever grip you are comfortable with. I not sure that it was good advice though. I found it takes a while to get the left hand to cooperate, especially when you take it btb. Cheers for now


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:Good idea Stone! I'd be into working through Scatz. Let me track down a copy...

[Just ordered a copy, should have it in a few days]

Yep, it's the ring grip I'm getting sorted

[ 15 October 2002, 12:07: Message edited by: Ade ]


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Rozi
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Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted:I'm up for it. I have my copy sitting beside my bed, unopened. So I need to get back to it. I am finding the diagram sequencing confusing

It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Ok, good to see a few starters moving up to the line. Any tips for the Cup?

Rozi, when you look up a diagrams (telepathically? ) I suggest you pencil in the page number of the figure in the text. Then the next time you need to look up a diagram you will be able to find it easily. I photocopied the snake diagrams so I didn’t have to go flicking through the pages every time I was trying to follow a description.

Even better, you could do a heap of photocopies, then cut and paste, to build the sequences. I haven't done that, so I have arrows and lines all over the place; very confusing.

Wot do people think of heart-shaped circles? I'd be really interested to know if Jilling's includes heart-shaped circles in her book. The bound bit confused me to start with, but you start to feel it after a while. And, wot do people think of Schatz's counting system? I follow it for a while, then I just loose it completely

I learnt most of the arm-circle and shoulder circle type stuff from the Richter book, which got me off to a good start. Then I went back to Schatz for the fancy stuff.

There are inward, outward and parallel (inner and outer together) circles. Fig 5, page 22 shows a shoulder circle and upper front. Shoulder circles are done behind (ring grip), while the upper fronts are done in front (ball and socket).

They can be combined with (hip circles) lower fronts (ring grip) and lower backs (ball and socket). When you take the clubs behind for the lower backs, keep the palms facing up and backwards.

I suspect people would know most of this stuff from poi, so it really is just matter of learning the grips, and getting the wrist to perform unnatural acts.

Don't forget to practice the parallels; to the right and then to the left. Cheers for now

[ 20 October 2002, 23:39: Message edited by: Stone ]


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Rozi
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Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted:Yep those heart shaped circles. I have never really used them, accept maybe as an abbreviated version of chasing the sun using clubs. Its a nice practice for getting into doing circles within bigger circles, but if you have done poi you pretty much have got that concept anyhow.

It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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