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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Since Dom decided to say on a different topic "God, don't go into drugs here as well!" I feel that it is my duty as a professonal devils advocate to start this topic.Are you for or against the use/legalisation of drugs or controled substances?Personally I fell that (this is a quote from a diff topic) "Makeing drugs leagle wont stop crime and ODs. Did allowing alcohol stop dwi deaths and countless people being killed due to some drunk and a car. Hell no it didnt. Personally I feel that we need to take the war on drugs in a different direction. I think that stiffer punishments would be best. I think that America should follow Singapore's example PUBLIC CAINING!!! I can not think of a better deturent than the threat of haveing your naked ass whipped with a pole in full view of anyone who wants to tune in and watch. Also it should be an act of terrorisim to bring or grow/make drugs into/in America. That punishment would be death. I think that the best way to admister the punishment on that accorde would be disembowlement. Make it so the penalty is so stiff that nobody would want to risk it. Heck after the first few I think that people would start to get the point, but then again mankind (P.C. womankind ) is generally thick headed."[This message has been edited by Raymund Phule (edited 12 February 2002).]

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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TEK829
member
Location: Latham, NY, USA
Member Since: 18th Oct 2001
Total posts: 29
Posted:First, to whichever of you asked, the BAC came back even-steven zeroes. The driver kept telling me he hadn't drank or done drugs, but he also asked me about 20 times where we were going and what happened and what time it was.
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And Pele, you're absolutely right. Alcohol sucks (from a patient-care perspective). And making that illegal to drive with hasn't helped substantially, in my opinion. I'm not convinced legalizing these drugs would help, but I can't honestly say that making them illegal has been the answer, either -- our local PD is largely ineffective in stopping the local dealers; they just relocate.So I guess like everybody says: education, education, education. Changing thinking will change action? Less "Drugs are evil" and more "Well, okay, but here's stuff to think about"? Except that the age group I've largely seen having the problems isn't generally the population-segment most likely to be considering possible consequences, either... *sigh* truly a tough one. :/


Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Cry, and the world laughs at you. It's your choi

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:I feel that giveing the people who do the drugs a reason not to is a better deterent than education. Look at all this antismoking advertisment. Has it really done that much good? Nope sure people have sued tobacco companies for billions but at $4-$5 a pack it really dont matter how much you sue they will make their money back within a year. There is alot of education out there about tobacco but does it really work? I think not.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:I'm not going to do a long post now (even though I would love to).Briefly, I'm a liberal, believe in self responsibility and the motto "Do what thou wilt, but harm none". However there are a lot of people too immature to handle a life led on this philosophy. Knowledge and intelligence to use that knowledge are the key, and need expanding.There's a simple fact about drug laws that has stood for decades and billions of pounds spent. They don't work that well.People react badly to harsh prohibition of anything. Humans have taken psychoactive substances for untold thousands of years. Even George W Bush has been a frequent user of class A drugs. Almost every note in circulation is tainted with cocaine. To think that they'll ever stop is to live in cloud cuckoo land. The current laws aren't working, so it's time to try something else.You've probably heard that although Amsterdam has a huge amount of drug tourism, Holland in general has some of the lowest amount of drug use in the World, and the profiles and life expectancy of users are better than elsewhere. In contrast the UK has the highest amount of drug use in Europe.Read this article from my beloved Guardian
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In summary recently in Lambeth, a London borough than encompasses Brixton, the Police decided to try a different approach to cannabis. Those found with cannabis on them, are not arrested, but cautioned. Basically users were are no longer considered criminals. The result after 6 months? 2500 man hours saved and a 19% increase in arrests of hard drug dealers.Sometimes a different, more liberal, approach gets drastically better results than harsher and more restrictive policies.If anyone wants a longer rant of 'Anti War' proportions I may post again later. Lucky you!
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N8
member
Location: NY, USA
Member Since: 10th Apr 2001
Total posts: 336
Posted:*Sigh*Not very often do I join these debates, But man do i love reading them...

Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...

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toneman
member

Member Since: 18th Oct 2001
Total posts: 195
Posted:Raymond, as I am at work, I don't have enough time to go and find links for you, but the anti-smoking advertising HAS worked, and HAS reduced the % of teenage smokers. While it hasn't made a drastic difference in adults smokers, it wasn't intended to. And your statement about the cost of cigarettes being $4-5 a pack so the tobacco co's can make their money back is just plain Wrong!! There is a TAX of about $3.50 a pack on cigarettes. That tax is used partially for anti-smoking campaigns, but mostly for Health Care related costs. The damage that cigarettes do is ASTOUNDING! What other product can you think of that: makes addicts of 80% of it's users, and kills 50%? Even heroin has better statistics. Tens of Thousands of people die on a daily basis in the US alone because of cigarette smoking, and yet, do you see everyone rallying to criminalize cigarettes? No. Why is that? Because there is a belief that as an adult, you are allowed to make your own decisions what you do with your body. You do, however, see a pretty in-your-face anti-teen smoking, campaign, though. Why? Because there is also a belief that before you are legally recognized as an adult, you should be sheltered/protected from society at general, because there are a lot of ills in society that can harm the unprotected inexperienced youth.Now, why can't we take this to the next level? Adults should generally be allowed to do whatever they want with their body. Tattoos, abortion, tobacco, piercing, alcohol. It's your body, it should be your choice.Some might argue that if we legalize drugs, then our society will go to hell! News flash, it already has!!! There are people out there that abuse/are addicted to alcohol. Does that mean that everyone will get addicted? No. What it means is this: there are individuals in society at large that are mentally ill. This may manifest itself physically in drug or alcohol abuse, however, it also shows up in bulimea (SP?) anorexia, MPD, co-dependance, sexual addiction, etc (insert other ills here). Some people will choose to use drugs in this manner, however, that shouldn't negate the rights of those who CAN and DO safely use anything they choose.Some will say they don't think that this-or that should be legalized, but whatever it is, I guarantee you that I could go down to HOme Depot and find something ten times worse to abuse. From Ether to silver/gold paint to scotch guard and canned whipped cream. Anything you do can kill you if you try hard enough.One must also ask: Why the propaganda/misinformation war against drugs? What does the gov't really have to lose by being truthful about drugs? They lose their POWER!! Truth is a very powerful thing, and if you can skew the truth, you can tilt the balance of power in your direction. The pendulum has been swinging one way for a long time, but will ALWAYS come back the other way. Ask the prohibitionsists!!
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peace and greasetony[This message has been edited by toneman (edited 14 February 2002).][This message has been edited by toneman (edited 14 February 2002).]


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Wren
member
Location: Mt. Horeb, Wi, USA
Member Since: 28th Oct 2001
Total posts: 33
Posted:""Adults should generally be allowed to do whatever they want with their body. Tattoos, abortion, tobacco, piercing, alcohol. It's your body, it should be your choice.""Abortion...uhoh...are we going to start on that now too?
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-------------------WrenKeeping time, time, time,In a sort of Runic rhyme...


-WrenAnd that, my friends, is condensed evil.

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PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted:drugs, yeah i'm up for whatever the english government decide to do about them.As working for one of the UK's most popular trance club, drugs pay my wages. I have taken drugs in the past but since i colapsed on E on my 21st birthday i havnt touched them since. If it wasnt for the job i am in right now i have no idea what i maybe doing or where my future will be. I do not take drugs myself now and do not preach to others not to take them, as my best mate is in crown court in the morning faceing drugs charges he had 2 E's on him at his birthday night out several months ago and got caught with them in the toilets... what a waste of tax money taking him to court over 2 pills. The club i work for souly relys on the younger crowd and specific drug taking clubbers but also enforces strong no drug policies since one of the north of englands bigest drugs raids on a club several months ago and a death which ocured only last week after a clubber died 30 mins later in hospital after taking 5 E's at the club. Drugs are a soul descretion to the person taking them and i agree with other responces posted that adults should be able to do what they want. But the pros and cons of a legalisation debate could go on forever, the only fair way for governments to decide is a referendum and put it to the vote. The youth of today did not create drugs our elders did and we are the new generation, our lives are forever changeing and the things we do in our lives, things should change too, if it does not go to a general vote by the public, why should a select few power tripped governers decide our futures on some thing like drugs, there are so many other debates on the table right now ie: free medical treatment (NHS), education and so forth. They should just get on with it and concentrate on other more serious matters where there are more lives at risk after all drugs are fairly safe now adays if taken corectly and in moderation. But descretion is the main factor here.Take them but it's your life and face the consecuences if it blows up in your face.PKhttp://uk.geocities.com/poi_in_the_park_sheffield

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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cyberpunkgrrl
cyberpunkgrrl

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Location: London
Member Since: 26th Nov 2001
Total posts: 27
Posted:Hmm, ok my $2 worth...Drugs are a very selfish thing - you take them so *you* feel good (nowt wrong with that - if I said there was, I'd be a hypocrite! ;p) There's nothing wrong with wanting to have fun - but not if it stresses other poeple out, such as the people who think they can handle pills, then spend all night gurning around like a champion, rolling their eyes like they're gonna shoot off in any direction and giving you a foul sweaty hug everything you happen to go with a 10 foot radius of them. I know someone who tried pills and freaked out on them- now she's scared of even drinking alcohol incase it brings on another panic attack.And, IMHO, I'd rather people took pills than smoked - being a chronic asthma sufferer, cigarette smoke is my main trigger, and more than once has my night been ruined by the fact that I have stopped breathing(& sometimes ended up in hospital!) I refuse to let this stop me, but it can't be doing me much good, and it's not even me who's doing it! Grr!</rant>All that aside...PARTY ON! *grin**s*

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Lets suppose for a while that drugs are leagle all of em. What would the rules be?Would you restrict them so that only persons over the age of 18 can buy them? Would this actually work? I doubt it look at how many underage drinkers and smokers there are. Would you have them put a tax on drugs?Would you add and force people who doont use drus pay money so that hospitals could afford to help those who OD and are addicted?Would you ask mortuarys to lower their costs so that broke addicted families could afford to bury their dead relitives?Would you ask teachers to teach kids that are so strung up on pcp and acid that they cant even sit down?You are right it is your body, but you do not have the right to impose on someone elses rights by being in such a mind altering state that run into people, try to kill them beause its the only way to get the giant bees off of yourself. "Your right to swing your fist ends where someone else nose begins." ~My Mom~ Your rights end where someone elses begins. The same with the freedome of speach your right to say what you want ends when the sound reaches someone elses ear. In other words you do not have the right to make people listen to you.Drugs kill. End of subject. Tobacco is a drug so is alchohol. They also kill. Period end of subjet.If you wanna discuss abortion e-mail me cuz I dont even want to get started on the crimes of that. Talk about murder!!------------------"Flag of the free heart's hope and home By angel hands to valor given,Thy stars have lit the welkin dome, And all their hues were born in heaven!Forever wave that standard sheet, Where breathes the toe but falls before usWith freedom's soil beneath our feet And freedom's banner streaming o'er us!"Albert J. Beveridge

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Wren
member
Location: Mt. Horeb, Wi, USA
Member Since: 28th Oct 2001
Total posts: 33
Posted:Well, the point I think a lot of people are trying to make is that a lot of the negative consequences of drugs happen already and legalizing/decriminalizing would save a lot of money in the police/prison/govt realm."Would you add and force people who doont use drus pay money so that hospitals could afford to help those who OD and are addicted?"This happens already, doesn't it? Would you add and force people who don't commit crimes to pay to keep those that commit crimes that do not harm others greatly in prison?"Would you ask teachers to teach kids that are so strung up on pcp and acid that they cant even sit down?"Do we ask teachers to teach kids that are drunk?-------------------WrenKeeping time, time, time,In a sort of Runic rhyme...

-WrenAnd that, my friends, is condensed evil.

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Wern those are some good points but you know and I know that leaglising drugs will not mean that we do not need to get more and more police, prisons ect. It will mean that we need more graveyards and mortuarysI would wrather that if someone was sent to prison that the people do not pay a thing for them. Heck just throw em in a hole and let their fate be theirs. Cruel and unusual?!? Mothers o America is what I call it. Ohh my baby just savagly killed someone but it is cruel if they dont have cable tv and access to the internet. Maybe punishments could and should be other than jail time. Like caining. A good public and humiliating spanking. Reminds me of my childhood. [image]http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif">------------------[/image] By angel hands to valor given,Thy stars have lit the welkin dome, And all their hues were born in heaven!Forever wave that standard sheet, Where breathes the toe but falls before usWith freedom's soil beneath our feet And freedom's banner streaming o'er us!"Albert J. Beveridge

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Off topic Va in-Ego PK I just took a gander at your site gee wiz that is one of the most captivating animations I have ever seen!------------------"Flag of the free heart's hope and home By angel hands to valor given,Thy stars have lit the welkin dome, And all their hues were born in heaven!Forever wave that standard sheet, Where breathes the toe but falls before usWith freedom's soil beneath our feet And freedom's banner streaming o'er us!"Albert J. Beveridge

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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LightWeaver
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Location: State College, PA, USA
Member Since: 13th Aug 2001
Total posts: 4
Posted:Raymond Phule: consider the phrase 'drugs kill'. Drugs kill people? They just jump in your mouth and kill your? Gorillas kill people. Spider bites kill people. Car wrecks kill people.The particular poison in my favorite fungi is undoubtedly a neurotoxin -- and poisonous to my brain. I still take it, because I have a choice. I have free will.This is less a debate on drugs for me, than it is a debate on free will, because people CHOOSE to take these drugs, as did I. The only difference between me and ODers are that I do my homework and respect my body. I understand that alcohol is not that serious a problem in Europe (by the numbers) compared to America -- because they have a safe attitude towards alcohol built-in from an early age: by their parents, the major source of conditioning in one's life. And I do have friends that use marijuana in a responsible manner -- coincidentally, they smoked weed with older friends or parents (a trusted figure), and don't spend all day sitting around in a stoner haze like some OTHER friends I have. I don't see why drug education can't work, if it's coming from your family. So get educated and tell those you know -- read up on erowid, the shroomery, and bluelight.org so you know what you're getting into. And read a LOT -- you'll find more than a few myths or urban legends.At this point? If one can't handle one's drugs, one dies. Simple darwinism. And why should a government prop up a citizen that can't control themselves? HA!! I'm conservative after all!! mwahahahaha

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Itsgottab
member
Location: NZ
Member Since: 7th Nov 2001
Total posts: 244
Posted:ray for you and your buddies in the 'gun carrying, do what your're told bargrade' some public humiliation may work, but a drug addict doesn't give a fuck, so do you just want to get off by degrading another human being, cos you have to take shit from some dumb arse angry man trying to turn you into a man like him.mind altering substances that have been used for many a long year i think should be freely consumed by those who choose, the modern drugs that we don't really no about, well they should be given to a select group of individuals that we can all monitor.

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:Lets suppose for a while that cars are legal. What would the rules be?Would you restrict them so that only persons over the age of 18 can use them? Would this actually work?Would you have them put a tax on cars?Would you add and force people who don't use cars to pay money so that roads can be built, and so hospitals could afford to help those who have been injured in crashes?Would you ask mortuaries to lower their costs so that broke families could afford to bury their relatives killed in car crashes?Cars kill. End of subject. Ban them.Would you ask teachers to teach kids that are so strung up on pcp and acid that they cant even sit down?I couldn't think of a comment about this. Do underage drinkers and smokers sit in school drinking? Most probably not! If they did they would be excluded. Simple.You are right it is your body, but you do not have the right to impose on someone else's rights by being in such a mind altering state that run into people, try to kill them beause its the only way to get the giant bees off of yourself.You've never taken drugs have you? (except alcohol) Don't listen to the hype that it makes people mad. I've been around a lot of people on drugs, everything from hash to acid to coke to H. I've rarely seen people get violent (alcohol and coke being exceptions here, turns a lot of people into wankers). I've never seen anyone trying to get giant bees off themselves
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Raymond, this isn't an extreme black and white issue. Almost everyone here has gone for grey.Legalising drugs most probably won't mean a huge increase in the numbers of people using. If you want to do drugs you do. It's easy! In London they say you're never more than 200 metres from a source of class A drugs. All over the world you can buy E in every club, and hash is as easy to get hold of. (I'm talking about E and hash as they're the most popular and common drugs.)Legalising something won't mean that everyone will start getting high, but it will mean that they can start getting hold of a decent and controlled quality of drugs. MDMA (the main drug in E) has negative effects, and when taken in excess will cause bodily damage and can kill. So can alcohol. Downing a bottle of vodka has killed people. Same with aspirin, vitamin C. Everything has a lethal dose. However a lot of E's contain dodgy MDMA like substances that do more harm, like PMA, which has led to several deaths. A controlled supply would stop this.How about if you could go to a counter and buy a pack of 2 Es, and only 2. Sure, you could stockpile them, but it'd register a limit. And they'd come with big text on the packet, saying 'Drink isotonic drinks and keep cool.'A heroin addict can rarely give up by going cold turkey. It's hell. Methadone, currently used to ween users of heroin, can be worse for you. There are now schemes where users wanting to give up attend councilling, and get a controlled supply of heroin from a doctor. These people are less likely to die than a junkie who's only means of buying drugs is from a dealer.The whole dealer thing is one of the major causes of drugs fear. A lot of dealers aren't nice, a lot are friends of users funding their own habit. However if influential little Jonny wants to try drugs where does he currently go to buy them? The street or a friend of a friend. He's likely to be exposed to a lot more dodgy influence and try more drugs than he originally wanted to because, chances are, the dealer won't sell only hash or E's. After all, he's had an E, and coke and heroin are in the same class as E so they can't be that bad, can they!However, if Jonny's supply is from a controlled source that only sells hash and E's then he more likely to stick to that source and never meet dodgy dealer. And as drug use is socially acceptable he can talk about this to friends and his parents in a more open light. Generally the more accepted and talked about something is, the safer. Our little Jonny is now safer and less likely to become a burden on my taxes. Everyone's happy!I didn't want this post to be too long. Oh well
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Diablostik
member
Location: Jacksonville, Florida, U.S.A.
Member Since: 1st Feb 2002
Total posts: 34
Posted:," but he also asked me about 20 times where we were going and what happened and what time it was?" -That doesn't sound like he was on pot, more like he was either in shock, or, really not all together in the head in the first place. Is there a test to determine that an individual is high on marijuanna at the time of the accident ...other than eye inspection witch can be damn near impossible to tell if the were high or just having had a swim in a chlorinated pool? anyone? anyone? ....frey ...Frey

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toneman
member

Member Since: 18th Oct 2001
Total posts: 195
Posted:since there's been a lot of talk about 'e' and it's effects in this drug debate, I would like to point out that a LARGE majority of people who die from taking it, really die from dehydration, and heat stroke. Most of these are because the person who took the pill was ill informed about it's effects and dangers. If you remove these numbers from the 'e' deaths around the world, you'll find that probably 200-500 people die GLOBALLY yearly from other 'e' related causes. There was a report the middle of last year for 2000 that the US gov't had confiscated 10 million pills. Now, just for grins, let's assume that they caught 10% of incoming 'e'.
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That leaves 90 million pills on the street. Knowing that drug dealers don't usually hoard 100k pills for themselves, they were probably consumed! With the 30 or so 'e' related deaths for 2000 across the US, I would say it's a pretty statistically safe drug. I would and have bet my life on it. I'm no statistician, so can someone tell me the odds of dying if 90 million pills were consumed with 30 deaths? The really sad thing about my analysis is that since it's illegal, there's no hard data on the number of consumers vs number of injured. I have a feeling that it's because if people realized how generally harmless it was, they'd ask ?WHY? the insane policies.Before anyone jumps me, I would like to point out that I use the term "harmless" when referring to 'e' by comparing it to other legal drugs, like alcohol. Yes 'e' will cause brain damage, and other problems, but compared with alcohol, it's a saint.If you try to get 'f-ed' up by taking 5 pills at a time, shame on you! One can't say that mentality is an illegal drug thing, however, because there are a TON of deaths every year due to alcohol poisoning.-Dom- don't even get me started on how dangerous driving is!!
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BTW- the thing about LSD causing SEVERE hallucinations is false. In my many years of being around people who partake, the only people I've seen in that type of state had some SEVERE mental problems and should not have taken it anyways. Mental people go mental, it's just a matter of time and a trigger!!
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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:Little facts I stumbled across.Continuation rates (the % of people who use drugs long term) for all illegal drugs lie about 10% to 20%, alcohol is 80% and tobacco 50%.In 1998, In England and Wales, up to 3000 people died through drug abuse. This inculdes all controlled drugs and volatile substance abuse. In that same period 120,000 died through smoking, and 28-33,000 died as a result of alcohol.1.5 million Americans were arrested for drug-law violations in 1999.However, I think almost everyone knows that drug use kills less people than cigs and alcohol. However the problem is that governments continue to drive these as socially acceptable drugs. Something like hash is still not recognised as socially acceptable by the government, even though it's considered to be socially acceptable by the majority of the population.As always perception is the key.You can equate it to homosexuality. Not so long ago if you were gay you were spurned by society, a bit before that and you were locked up in an asylum. Now, the gay way of life is accepted by the majority of people.

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PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted:T/Y Raymund Phule, just dont look at whilst on acid!If you want the program i can send it to you, its kinda fun to play around with. If you like 3d graphic designs.------------------PKhttp://uk.geocities.com/poi_in_the_park_sheffield[This message has been edited by vain-ego pk (edited 15 February 2002).]

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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toneman
member

Member Since: 18th Oct 2001
Total posts: 195
Posted:I guess it's easier to have a debate about drugs when you have different points of views...
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Jaeden
member
Location: Edmonton
Member Since: 2nd Sep 2001
Total posts: 220
Posted:Not drug related, but consistent with government policies.Certain kinds of drugs are legal (alchohol, tobacco). Certain kinds of gambling are legal (VLT, casino). Why? The gov't makes a killing here in Alberta from gambling revinues. Those they don't control are illegal. I have a feeling it is the same for certain drugs (Pot). The gov't dosen't have a plan to implement as of yet that would allow them to reap large profits from the sale, or are just too lazy to implement it. Change takes time, and time is money.------------------'There is a fist pressing against anyone who thinks something compelling'

The world is not out to get you but if you fight it you will be eaten alive

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Bendy
member
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Member Since: 29th Aug 2001
Total posts: 750
Posted:I heard somewhere that the original reason hemp/marijuana was banned in the US was because it was such a competitive market to the huge cotton industry.And people quoting stats doesn't work unless you put them in context. Sure more people die from smoking and alcohol - but more people use those drugs too. If you want to use a stat, make it a percentage of users, not just a number.

Courage is the man who can stop after only one peanut

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:!!!!!!!!!!WARNING, WARNING, IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THE USE OF FOUL LANGUAGE DO NOT READ THIS. SOME MAY FIND THIS POST DISGUSTING AND RUDE IF YOU FEEL THAT YOU MAY BE OFFENDED BY SUCH A POST DO NOT READ THE FIRST HALF. IF YOU DO READ AND ARE OFFENDED DO NOT SAY YOU WERE NOT WARNED WITH THE EXCEPTION OF Peregrine!!!!!!!!!!!Itsgottab, if you read through the older posts on the Anti War topic you would see that when someone says something like you did I get rather (how to say this nicely) fucking pissed off. So I am going to be nice about this (or as nice as I can be considering) dude fuck off. I am sorry if my language offends people other than Itsgottab, right now I could care less if I offend him. Personally I feel that he is in luck that we are on the internet and that from here I cant shove my size 10 1/2 boot somewhere unpleasant. Just for those of you who missed it this is that he said that made me so angry. And I quote..."ray for you and your buddies in the 'gun carrying, do what youre told bargrade' some public humiliation may work, but a drug addict doesn't give a fuck, so do you just want to get off by degrading another human being, cos you have to take shit from some dumb arse angry man trying to turn you into a man like him."Lets take this a bit at a time, my buddies and I in the "gun carrying" whats that supposed to mean, myself and every hunter and trapper and military person in the world? First off do you know how many people in the American armed forces get waivers for drugs? I would say 80% is that an accurate figure? I hope not but then again it is a guess on my part. So I am sure that there are a few people that know a tiny incy bit about drugs."do what your're told bargrade' " the "do what your' re told part I understand, what the hell is "bargrade'"? (by the way nice spelling) I do, do what I am told but I am not a mindless peon that has no capability of individual though. I am not a Borg.Drug addicts do give a fuck. Comprende? You might not but I guarantee you that there is an addict out there that does. If there is one then there is more. Also do you think that I enjoy being humiliated? No if I don't "get off" on my own humiliation then it would be pretty fucked up if I got off on someone elses. I do not "get off" on anybodys humiliation, but it does work. I do not make the same mistakes mainly because I do not want to be humiliated by getting my ass chewed on."cos you have to take shit from some dumb arse angry man trying to turn you into a man like him"You know I would rather be a man like "some dumb arse angry man" than be a strung out crack whore like you. I can think on my own, I follow my orders, and I do not however have a substance telling me what to do. I do not sit in the corner and rock back and forth because I am too broke to get another hit. I dont walk the streets at night asking some guy to fuck me up the ass so I can get a hit of crack. I am sorry if I have impeded on your hobbies but you are a sick fuck aint ya.You and your drugged out kind of are an infection on this world, I would rather wipe you all out than see one more child be born retarded because its mom was strung out on some shit. I would do just about anything to get rid of you like I get rid of a zit "POP" and watch your innards squish all over a mirror.Now then I stopped reading when I got to Itsgottab's post, now that I have finished the rest of the posts Dom poo on you for using my drugs kill end of subject against me.
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But does a car kill you by itself? No but does a pill jump in your mouth? Only if youre really jacked up. When a person pops a pill it is the pill that can kill them. When a person drives down the road they have to do something to get that car to kill someone. I.E. mess with the radio, fall asleep whatever. If a person that is high plays with the radio it aint gonna get them killed it is the drug that kills and it is the person driving the car that kills. A gun wont kill a person, a person has to pull the trigger, drop it on an odd angle whatever. (personal phrase... Guns dont kill people bullets kill people.
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please dont take that out of context just a phrase ppl) As far as the original reason that pot was outlawed, I could care less its against the law. Do people argue why murder is against the law? No they dont, they argue the definition of murder but they all seem to agree that it is illegal and wrong. Why arent drug dealers charged with murder when the drugs they sell kill? If your country has deemed it illegal then it is why argue. If you feel that it is wrong get it changed then start doing it. If you try it the other way then you defeat your purpose and prove that you are not mature or responsible enough to do the whatever if it were legal.Yes alcohol and tobacco kill more of a percentage of their users that is true. If someone would find the percentage of drug users to alcohol and tobacco users. I would bet a lot of money that there are more alcohol and tobacco users than drugs.I am sorry for the first part of this post, I apologies to everyone but Itsgottab. I have never been more angry at one person on this forum than Itsgottab. To him I will say nothing more I have now ranked him as a non-factor something to be ignored. Jaeden, I do not think that the Gov. is too lazy to implement the money making scheme, when it comes to making money they are never lazy. I dont care what country youre talking about they are all the same. Communism is just version 1.2 of capitalism (1.1) and monarchies are version 1.0 of capitalism everyone wants theirs so a Gov. wont hesitate to make more money.Toneman I think there are about 5 people that share a similarity in my point of view and about half a billion others that see it the other way.Dom, I think that we both can agree on this all forms of drugs kill people that is why they are either restricted or illegal. Even though I am at least a social user of alcohol and tobacco I think that they should all be illegal but I must confess the Gov. makes too much money off of em to get rid of em. Dom just for S&G can we find a topic that we can debate on the same side for once?
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LightWeaver, how free is your free will? Can you not take your mind-altering drug? Can you stop taking them? I doubt it, it takes someone doing something 30 times to make it a habit. One of these days you will die from drug use. Murphy's Law if it can happen, it will. Except for Dan Marino's super bowl dreams.
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As you can see I have calmed down a bit so please no "Gee Raymund Calm down." stuff.Now that we are probably on page 3 hehe I will end this post. ------------------"Flag of the free heart's hope and home By angel hands to valor given,Thy stars have lit the welkin dome, And all their hues were born in heaven!Forever wave that standard sheet, Where breathes the toe but falls before usWith freedom's soil beneath our feet And freedom's banner streaming o'er us!"Albert J. Beveridge[This message has been edited by Raymund Phule (edited 15 February 2002).][This message has been edited by Raymund Phule (edited 15 February 2002).][This message has been edited by Raymund Phule (edited 15 February 2002).]


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Peregrine
member
Location: Mystic, Ct. USA
Member Since: 12th Jan 2001
Total posts: 428
Posted:I have never read a more disgusting load of filth than that. i'll stick with my occasionally drug using friends who at least can turn the other cheek when called on than even waste my time with someone who can write a post like that.Pere

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Hey like I said sorry to offend, it was not an intent to offend others. If you dectect a hint that I dont care that I offended you then your almost right. I dont like that I offended you and I also dont care that I did. None the less I am sorry that you felt ill because of what I wrote, but I feel ill everytime I hear of people who just for fun tempt fate by using drugs. I was very emotonal it happens. I would not be offended if you decided to make myself a non-factor just ignore me if you wish. But I will add a little something to my post to prevent others from becomeing ill. Thank you for your constructive critisisim. Personaly I feel that if you can look through my anger and language of my last post you will find a decent message.------------------"Flag of the free heart's hope and home By angel hands to valor given,Thy stars have lit the welkin dome, And all their hues were born in heaven!Forever wave that standard sheet, Where breathes the toe but falls before usWith freedom's soil beneath our feet And freedom's banner streaming o'er us!"Albert J. Beveridge[This message has been edited by Raymund Phule (edited 15 February 2002).]

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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TEK829
member
Location: Latham, NY, USA
Member Since: 18th Oct 2001
Total posts: 29
Posted:Diablostik -- I agree, the severe memory loss probably weren't because of the marijuana (which we found out about at the hospital later after the tox. screen. Then the friend admitted it.... why won't they tell me?.... anyway..). Likely, the memory loss was because because of the closed head injury from the star he left in the windshield with his head. That's just a guess, though. I admit to being a bit biased... after all, many of you have the benefit of seeing the substance use that hasn't had apparent negatives..... I only see substance abuse when something goes wrong. :/back to lurking for me...Spin on.

Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Cry, and the world laughs at you. It's your choi

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:TEK829, you bring a different view to the topic so stop lurking and join in. A lot of these people have had good experiences with the drugs they use and see. I have to ask though is it really worth the risk? Can you really trust the person who makes your drugs? They are gambleing with alot more than they are willing to pay I garuntee you that.------------------"Flag of the free heart's hope and home By angel hands to valor given,Thy stars have lit the welkin dome, And all their hues were born in heaven!Forever wave that standard sheet, Where breathes the toe but falls before usWith freedom's soil beneath our feet And freedom's banner streaming o'er us!"Albert J. Beveridge

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Wren
member
Location: Mt. Horeb, Wi, USA
Member Since: 28th Oct 2001
Total posts: 33
Posted:"You and your drugged out kind of are an infection on this world, I would rather wipe you all out than see one more child be born retarded because its mom was strung out on some shit. I would do just about anything to get rid of you like I get rid of a zit "POP" and watch your innards squish all over a mirror."Yay! Genocide! And don't you know you aren't supposed to pop zits? It just makes them irritated and become more of a problem."LightWeaver, how free is your free will? Can you not take your mind-altering drug? Can you stop taking them? I doubt it, it takes someone doing something 30 times to make it a habit. One of these days you will die from drug use."Thank you for clarifying this, Raymund. I now understand that once someone smokes a joint they then become mindless zombies. Would I still be considered undead in some form (skeleton, ghoul, wight?) because I did some drugs and now have chosen not to ever again? I furthermore have found that habits are not formed because of the strength of the reinforcement given but by achieved the magical number of 30. I also tremble in fear of those couple bowls I smoked on my 18th birthday...some day they will return in spectral form and slay me."Dom, I think that we both can agree on this all forms of drugs kill people that is why they are either restricted or illegal. Even though I am at least a social user of alcohol and tobacco I think that they should all be illegal but I must confess the Gov. makes too much money off of em to get rid of em. Dom just for S&G can we find a topic that we can debate on the same side for once?"WTF? Ok, I'll go for lich status here (and hopefully end my lame RPG comments). I didn't notice one of these (
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) in this statement so unless someone enlightens me I have no choice but to consider you a hypocrite. Also, I think its unlikely that Dom will join you in a debate because he tends to view things in a gray-scale mode whereas you are black and white. Also, he'll be too busy rocking back and forth in a corner, soon to die.-------------------WrenKeeping time, time, time,In a sort of Runic rhyme...


-WrenAnd that, my friends, is condensed evil.

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Wern, ouch. First of all you took alot of stuff out of context. The magic number of 30 is like an average number. The average number of times a person must do something to make it habit forming is 30. Now did I say that it was impossible to quit drugs? I know that for a fact that you can quit and that it is hard, at the age of 21 I find myself to be a recovering alcoholic.What I said to Dom was to Dom not Wern or anybody else, and I am sorry for ommiting the
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after the last sentance. I do find it interesting that you did leave out what I said about murphys law. If it takes one joint to make you into a mindless zombie then ohh well. And congratulatins on quiting drugs you have beaten the odds, and that is a true accomplishment. There was 0 sarcasim in that last sentence I was deadly serius. You are absolutly right I see the world as black and white, I find it a heck of alot easyer to live that way. Because when you think about it you an only live comfortably on one side of the fence. If you try to live on the fence then you choose to sit with a picket up your butt!
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Dom my advice to you and every other person on drugs is kick the drugs man it aint worth it, it is not worth the risk. Ohh and its not "Genocide" this is genoideAccording to Webster's II New Riverside DictionaryGen.o.cide n. The systematic anihilation of a politial, racial, or cultural group.Drugs no matter what form trancend politics race and culture. If you need me to prove it I will, lets hope you do not need the proof and that you can figure that out on your own. I can however understand that you fed off of my anger in writeing your post.Hey I pop my zits, I like the way it feels when all the pressure under the skin is sudenly releaved.
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I think that I rebutted all of your comments if I missed one please let me know.
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Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Katinca
Katinca

See my vest.... see my vest...
Location: Adelaide - South Australia
Member Since: 9th May 2001
Total posts: 693
Posted:OK, I am not going to say much, as I have my own opinions on this topic and I hate when people preach to me Drugs are Bad mmmkay....I work in the pharmaceutical industry on drug trials and I can tell you now, that you'd be surprised how many legal drugs which are out there that are bad for you, more toxic then any plant youve smoked. In fact more people die from legal drugs including alcohol and tobacco and numerous OD's due to inaccurate dosages or people wanting to kill themselves, then people die from any single drug. And still to this day no one has died from smoking too much dope. Sure they have gotten lung cancer, but hey thats smoking related not THC related.I have no problem with illegal drugs, in fact I think we would have much smaller crime rate if they were legal. Take for instance Amsterdam. Yeh drug capital of the world, now if you look at the figures they actually have less drug-related deaths then any country that has that no-tolerance drug crap. I mean if people want to take drugs they are going to anyway regardless of what the government says. The _least_ government can do is provide safe clean places to take them, and standardized doses and of course pure crap, not fucking rat poisonbattery acid (heh). In my opinion governments who choose to take the no-tolerance drug stance then they are just promoting the under ground drug trade, which effectively increases the likelihood of crime and overdoses due to impurities. It comes down to the fact, that people are going to want and wish to take drugs not matter what. You make all drugs illegal, people will still find them, make them, sell them, take them.I don't have any problem with people taking drugs as long as they do it responsibly and know the consequences of their actions.Now tell me, when you pop a pill coz you got a headache do even think about it? I mean I do all the time, every chemical that I put into my body including vitamins, or herbal medicines I do my research. I take mind-altering drugs recreationally, and I thoroughly enjoy their effects. But I consider myself a confident, experienced (to an extent) WELL educated user. I _always_ research anything I am going to put into my body and I always try to understand the consequences of my actions on my body, mind and to the people around me. If they are negative then I stop.I guess I also see it as a lot of people who are _dead_ against drugs, can't see the forest before the trees, as in Alcohol thats a drug, tobacco, yup that too...and anything you buy from the chemist. I think the problem with mind-altering drugs is ignorance actually. If you've tried them you will know what I am getting at. They have a tendency to open your mind, and promote thought process that you dont seem to be capable of in the real world. They allow you to experience a different state of consciousness. Trust me, this is coming from someone for so long now has waved the drugs is bad flag, so much that I totally screwed my last relationship by it. However through education and understanding of the mind, the chemical compounds in the mind, and some incredibly intelligent people I have a more rounded educated opinion on this topic.SO I vote Hemp Party, thumbs up for drugs.But I vote and even bigger thumbs up to tolerance and understanding and of course education!!Hmm sorry turned into a bit of a long post there.And Raymund Phule, I do apologise prior to what I am about to say, but you seem to be quite uneducated about drugs and the taking of drugs you also seem very bitter and angry as well as twisted over drugs. I have to say I have had some amazing insights while taking drugs and some great times, both through mental awareness of myself, the world and social awareness with my friends. I have talked and delved deep into the consciousness both by myself and with my friends. Our discussions have spawned some amazing theories and possibilities of the world and universe. You know the worlds not flat, and mind-altering drugs are very interesting, DMT particularly. Not that I have tried it, I am still researching the shit out of it as I know it is a strong hallucinogenicanyway thats not the point. So what's your deep dark story. Why are you so totally drugs are bad...what was the experience is it that you had that was so _negative_ that you now refuse to even give perfectly nice, intelligent people a go if you find out they are drug takers?? You know if every drug taker vanished on this planet, I think there would be no one left.------------------ ~*~ Katinca ~*~[This message has been edited by Katinca (edited 15 February 2002).]

Love and Light

~*~ Katinca ~*~

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