Forums > Technical Discussion > Multi-coloured fire...
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64 posts
Location: Cardiffy, Londony places
64 posts
Location: Cardiffy, Londony places
Posted:
'Ello all...
Just a curious thought that's been bouncing off all the walls of my mind for the past half an annum, but has anyone seen any fire poi/staff/knives or what have you, that have coloured flames? I mean things like green, red, purple flames? And if anyone has do they know how this is done? I remember from school that adding metal to a fire changes the colour of the flame (copper=green, iron=red, I think potasium made a lillac flame
), but I'm curious how to add the metal to the fire. I'm thinking if it would work if metal filings were added to the fuel, but I'm not too sure how potassium would chemically react to this or anything.... any ideas would be cool, telling me outright if it's impossible would also be groovy but slightly angrifying...
'Ello all...
Just a curious thought that's been bouncing off all the walls of my mind for the past half an annum, but has anyone seen any fire poi/staff/knives or what have you, that have coloured flames? I mean things like green, red, purple flames? And if anyone has do they know how this is done? I remember from school that adding metal to a fire changes the colour of the flame (copper=green, iron=red, I think potasium made a lillac flame
), but I'm curious how to add the metal to the fire. I'm thinking if it would work if metal filings were added to the fuel, but I'm not too sure how potassium would chemically react to this or anything.... any ideas would be cool, telling me outright if it's impossible would also be groovy but slightly angrifying...BRONZE Member
Irish
525 posts
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA
Irish
525 posts
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA
Posted:
yeah i put up a post on it....boric acid and green flames
yeah i put up a post on it....boric acid and green flames
Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes
Co-Founder of Keepers of Light
Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
BRONZE Member
member
67 posts
Location: Nottingham, UK
member
67 posts
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posted:
There is also a little bit of discussion on this in the "Firebreathing fuel in the UK" thread, which mentions some lamp oils I discovered on the 'net which burn with a coloured flame. Obviously for firebreathing I'm very concerned with the toxicity, but I imagine this would be less of a problem with poi. So provided lamp oil is a suitable fuel for you to use (I know nothing about poi, but I guess it is), then searching for coloured lamp oils on the 'net should bring up a number of options for you which are probably safer than mixing your own unless you're sure you know what you're doing with the chemicals involved!
Whatever you do, be careful with potassium if you're handling the pure metal - IIRC it burns quite violently on contact with air or water! Metal compounds of various sorts would probably be much safer to use than the pure metal in cases like this, but I'm not a chemist so I wouldn't want to hazzard a guess at what's safe to use and what's not!
HTH
m
There is also a little bit of discussion on this in the "Firebreathing fuel in the UK" thread, which mentions some lamp oils I discovered on the 'net which burn with a coloured flame. Obviously for firebreathing I'm very concerned with the toxicity, but I imagine this would be less of a problem with poi. So provided lamp oil is a suitable fuel for you to use (I know nothing about poi, but I guess it is), then searching for coloured lamp oils on the 'net should bring up a number of options for you which are probably safer than mixing your own unless you're sure you know what you're doing with the chemicals involved!
Whatever you do, be careful with potassium if you're handling the pure metal - IIRC it burns quite violently on contact with air or water! Metal compounds of various sorts would probably be much safer to use than the pure metal in cases like this, but I'm not a chemist so I wouldn't want to hazzard a guess at what's safe to use and what's not!
HTH
m
"Come to the edge", he said. They said "We are afraid."
"Come to the edge", he said. They came.
He pushed them..... and they flew.
- Apollinaire
member
64 posts
Location: Cardiffy, Londony places
64 posts
Location: Cardiffy, Londony places
Posted:
Groovinessness...
I'd seen the green fire post, but I'm trying to bend my mind around trying to possibly get a multicoloured flame...new ideas include a monkey fist ball with a couple of disspenser type thingies in them but that sounds a little crazy. I dunno, I'll keep thinking on it...
lamp oil... interesting...
Edit: sorry: been a fool, forgot to look a the second page in the Green Fire post thing... still thinking though...
EDITED_BY: Mr Hands (1070991788)
Groovinessness...
I'd seen the green fire post, but I'm trying to bend my mind around trying to possibly get a multicoloured flame...new ideas include a monkey fist ball with a couple of disspenser type thingies in them but that sounds a little crazy. I dunno, I'll keep thinking on it...
lamp oil... interesting...
Edit: sorry: been a fool, forgot to look a the second page in the Green Fire post thing... still thinking though...
EDITED_BY: Mr Hands (1070991788)
busy-tofu!
133 posts
Location: montreal: bagel capital
133 posts
Location: montreal: bagel capital
Posted:
You can do a search on coloured (or colored - try both spellings) flames and you'll find so much posts it isn't even funny. Also, for coloured flames, the components don't mix with heavy fuels like kerosene or parafin: you'll want to use denaturalized alcohol for that. Have fun!
Non-Https Image Link
You can do a search on coloured (or colored - try both spellings) flames and you'll find so much posts it isn't even funny. Also, for coloured flames, the components don't mix with heavy fuels like kerosene or parafin: you'll want to use denaturalized alcohol for that. Have fun!
Non-Https Image Link
there is no better way to say I love you than with the gift of a spatula!
member
9 posts
Location: si, nyc
9 posts
Location: si, nyc
Posted:
but where do we get the chemicals?
but where do we get the chemicals?
does it r0x0r j00r b0x0rz?
yes, my pants are quite happy 
busy-tofu!
133 posts
Location: montreal: bagel capital
133 posts
Location: montreal: bagel capital
Posted:
Depends wich ones. If you're still in school, talk to your chemistry teacher. Otherwise pharmacies/drugstores should keep em handy. Boric acid is easy to get, it's sold as a household cleaner. Also I think you can get potassiun and copper nitrates in plant foods.
An other tip: if you've used heavy fuel on your wicks lately, give them a couple of burn with spirits to get all the residue out: otherwise the colour won't show. And don't spin with coloured flames too often, the human body can only take so much abuse from toxic fumes. Take care and happy spinning
Depends wich ones. If you're still in school, talk to your chemistry teacher. Otherwise pharmacies/drugstores should keep em handy. Boric acid is easy to get, it's sold as a household cleaner. Also I think you can get potassiun and copper nitrates in plant foods.
An other tip: if you've used heavy fuel on your wicks lately, give them a couple of burn with spirits to get all the residue out: otherwise the colour won't show. And don't spin with coloured flames too often, the human body can only take so much abuse from toxic fumes. Take care and happy spinning
there is no better way to say I love you than with the gift of a spatula!
enlightened
187 posts
Location: montreal
187 posts
Location: montreal
Posted:
they dont add the metal to the fire lets say u take the iron3 ion in liquid form and dip a napkin in it, if u hold it up over a fie the paper wont burn but the fire will sjut consume the ion's and turn collors, skaem concept, dunk what ever your burning with whatreve substance u want to make the fire change color:)) sec4 lab equipment lol
they dont add the metal to the fire lets say u take the iron3 ion in liquid form and dip a napkin in it, if u hold it up over a fie the paper wont burn but the fire will sjut consume the ion's and turn collors, skaem concept, dunk what ever your burning with whatreve substance u want to make the fire change color:)) sec4 lab equipment lol
it must be green
BRONZE Member
Irish
525 posts
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA
Irish
525 posts
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA
Posted:
iron 3????? u know how hot u have to get that to burn?? the iron would have to be incinerated...think about it.....
you use the metal salts, and they attribute the color to the flame because of low burn temps
no burn...no color
basically group 1 and 2 on the periodic table, alkali metals and alkali earth metals are combined w\ a neg. charged gas....usually chlorine....thus you get a metal salt
ex
NaCl or table salt......yellow flame...
LiCl.......red\purple flame (i think)
Strontium Chloride....deep scarlet
some of these chemicals in elemental form are extremely dangerous
like sodium...it explodes in contact w\ water.......remember were talking an atomic scale so if you touch it w\o gloves or if it gets in contact with air the water molecules in air will react w\ the sodium
and strontium reacts strongly with oxygen
so even if you can find these metals in elemental form, dont bother getting them, they are extremely volatile
now...you can on occasion get some metals that will react with the chlorine
like copper
copper(2) chloride or CuCl2 will burn an irridesent(sp?) green\blue
often used to make ponds and very small bodies of water look blue you can usually pick some up at a pool store, or an outdoor decor type store. you have to buy it in a liquid form and its rather expensive but once you soak your wicks in it the effects are almost permanant and you always get green flames
have a seperate set of wicks for colored fire so you can switch from colors to normal
have fun.....and remember to be safe
plur
iron 3????? u know how hot u have to get that to burn?? the iron would have to be incinerated...think about it.....
you use the metal salts, and they attribute the color to the flame because of low burn temps
no burn...no color
basically group 1 and 2 on the periodic table, alkali metals and alkali earth metals are combined w\ a neg. charged gas....usually chlorine....thus you get a metal salt
ex
NaCl or table salt......yellow flame...
LiCl.......red\purple flame (i think)
Strontium Chloride....deep scarlet
some of these chemicals in elemental form are extremely dangerous
like sodium...it explodes in contact w\ water.......remember were talking an atomic scale so if you touch it w\o gloves or if it gets in contact with air the water molecules in air will react w\ the sodium
and strontium reacts strongly with oxygen
so even if you can find these metals in elemental form, dont bother getting them, they are extremely volatile
now...you can on occasion get some metals that will react with the chlorine
like copper
copper(2) chloride or CuCl2 will burn an irridesent(sp?) green\blue
often used to make ponds and very small bodies of water look blue you can usually pick some up at a pool store, or an outdoor decor type store. you have to buy it in a liquid form and its rather expensive but once you soak your wicks in it the effects are almost permanant and you always get green flames
have a seperate set of wicks for colored fire so you can switch from colors to normal
have fun.....and remember to be safe
plur
Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes
Co-Founder of Keepers of Light
Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
BRONZE Member
holy man
110 posts
Location: Upstate, NY, USA
holy man
110 posts
Location: Upstate, NY, USA
Posted:
If you want to get really good colored falme this seems like the place to get it. Expensive buts looks really good. I haven't tried it yet cause my computer at home just broke and now I can't get on the net to order.
colored flames
Good luck!
If you want to get really good colored falme this seems like the place to get it. Expensive buts looks really good. I haven't tried it yet cause my computer at home just broke and now I can't get on the net to order.
colored flames
Good luck!
Gather your harps from the willow trees, dust off the ancient strings. Call the bards and prophets, let them sing healing and freedom. Let light and love flow from the strings, colors of revelation.
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
YAWN!
*bangs head on wall*
this has been covered sooooooo many times its untrue..
just goto the top of the page, next to where it says main index, and click search.
then type in "coloured flame".
reap the rewards my son, reap the rewards.
YAWN!
*bangs head on wall*
this has been covered sooooooo many times its untrue..
just goto the top of the page, next to where it says main index, and click search.
then type in "coloured flame".
reap the rewards my son, reap the rewards.
BRONZE Member
member
186 posts
Location: Dallas, Tx, USA
member
186 posts
Location: Dallas, Tx, USA
Posted:
I don't know man. Looking at some of the MSDS on that site, i don't know if I wanna mess with some of those chemicals.
Granted MSDS always exagerate for safety sake, but still. I know I get little droplets of fuel on me and my hands sometimes, and they're saying it can be highly irritating on the skin. "FATAL IF INHALED" is the main one on there that makes me shy away from it. I would hate to get done with my first bright blue spin and have to go to the hospital!!
Quote:
Originally posted by ieuan
If you want to get really good colored falme this seems like the place to get it. Expensive buts looks really good. I haven't tried it yet cause my computer at home just broke and now I can't get on the net to order.
colored flames
Good luck!
I don't know man. Looking at some of the MSDS on that site, i don't know if I wanna mess with some of those chemicals.
Granted MSDS always exagerate for safety sake, but still. I know I get little droplets of fuel on me and my hands sometimes, and they're saying it can be highly irritating on the skin. "FATAL IF INHALED" is the main one on there that makes me shy away from it. I would hate to get done with my first bright blue spin and have to go to the hospital!!
"We can't stop here! This is bat country!"
"Welcome to the U-S-A,
We'll treat you right, unless you're black or gay, or Cherokeeeeee!!"
-Brian Griffin from "Family Guy" (the dog)
BRONZE Member
holy man
110 posts
Location: Upstate, NY, USA
holy man
110 posts
Location: Upstate, NY, USA
Posted:
Yeah that's true, I did see that. Maybe this isn't such a good idea for spinning, but for pyrotech stuff/effects...way cool.
Yeah that's true, I did see that. Maybe this isn't such a good idea for spinning, but for pyrotech stuff/effects...way cool.
Gather your harps from the willow trees, dust off the ancient strings. Call the bards and prophets, let them sing healing and freedom. Let light and love flow from the strings, colors of revelation.
enlightened
187 posts
Location: montreal
187 posts
Location: montreal
Posted:
u dont need to get it that hot, jsut toss it over a normal flame i did that in physics we use a bensen tube it works fine wiuth normal fire also. plus u dont need to incinerate it jsut dip it in:)) jsut steal soem from a lab lol
u dont need to get it that hot, jsut toss it over a normal flame i did that in physics we use a bensen tube it works fine wiuth normal fire also. plus u dont need to incinerate it jsut dip it in:)) jsut steal soem from a lab lol
it must be green
BRONZE Member
Irish
525 posts
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA
Irish
525 posts
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA
Posted:
ieuan....i love u....been lookin for sometin like this for months
now to find out about shipping
ieuan....i love u....been lookin for sometin like this for months
now to find out about shipping
Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes
Co-Founder of Keepers of Light
Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
BRONZE Member
holy man
110 posts
Location: Upstate, NY, USA
holy man
110 posts
Location: Upstate, NY, USA
Posted:
If ya like that, check this out:
chems
They sell all the chems you need. The no man's blue mix looks relly really good. I would have to say it the best blue I have found. I have not tried it but the pics look good.
If ya like that, check this out:
chems
They sell all the chems you need. The no man's blue mix looks relly really good. I would have to say it the best blue I have found. I have not tried it but the pics look good.
Gather your harps from the willow trees, dust off the ancient strings. Call the bards and prophets, let them sing healing and freedom. Let light and love flow from the strings, colors of revelation.
BRONZE Member
Irish
525 posts
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA
Irish
525 posts
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA
Posted:
........im getting certified in photoshop soon, trust me you can take a really crappy looking pic and make it look really nice real easy, you cant really trust a picture when its in an advertisement.
and wth are you talking about i went to that sight and they sell skylights....like installing them into your roof and whatnot.....
EDITED_BY: darkpoet (1071847023)
........im getting certified in photoshop soon, trust me you can take a really crappy looking pic and make it look really nice real easy, you cant really trust a picture when its in an advertisement.
and wth are you talking about i went to that sight and they sell skylights....like installing them into your roof and whatnot.....
EDITED_BY: darkpoet (1071847023)
Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes
Co-Founder of Keepers of Light
Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
SILVER Member
(...trusty steed of the rodeo midget...)
403 posts
Location: the state of flux, Ireland
(...trusty steed of the rodeo midget...)
403 posts
Location: the state of flux, Ireland
Posted:
Agreed UCOF,
this has been covered WAY too many times,
how about a "Definitive listing of...coloured flames" like there used to be one for "Definitive listing of wraps"?
If all of the data were coallated it might be an invaluable resource for those seeking that little bit *extra* for their performances.
And it would also put an end these perpetually spawning "coloured flame" threads
squarefish
EDITED_BY: squarefish (1072211909)
Agreed UCOF,
this has been covered WAY too many times,
how about a "Definitive listing of...coloured flames" like there used to be one for "Definitive listing of wraps"?If all of the data were coallated it might be an invaluable resource for those seeking that little bit *extra* for their performances.
And it would also put an end these perpetually spawning "coloured flame" threads
squarefish
EDITED_BY: squarefish (1072211909)
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Actually UCOF, you're wrong. There is new completely wrong information in this thread that hasn't been suggested in previous threads. Most of the previous threads had incorrect information on fuels to use whereas this thread has incorrect information on the fundamental idea of 'burning' metal ions.
Perhaps if we compiled all of the incorrect information we could compile a definitive incorrect post without any factual information at all. This way, the five times a month that people post incorrect information about colored flames we can refer them to the definitive incorrect thread.
Metal salts don't burn. Ever. They don't have a 'low burn temp' nor do aluminum ions have 'high burn temperatures'. You can't incinerate iron (III). "No burn... no color" is a lie. Lots of things give off color that aren't burning, for example any light bulb or the computer screen you are looking at right now. Metal ions don't give off color because they are burning, they give off color because they are hot and the electrons are excited. The methanol (or other petrolium fuel) is the only thing that burns. The heat from this fire turns some of the metal ions into a gas which, as their electrons return to their stable state, give off light of certain colors. Salts DO NOT BURN.
A metal ion and a metal are two totally different things. When we talk about eating 'iron in spinach' or 'calcium in milk' or even 'lithium in antidepressants' we're talking about the ions. If you ate elemental calcium or lithium, you'd die. Any salt does not have that metal, as an element in it. Iron chloride has none of the properties of pure iron.
I've said before that the mass number of coloured flame threads is my own personal Kriptonite. Apparently it turns me into a sarcastic bastard as well.
A definitive post on colored flames would be lovely. Maybe if they add another day of the week I'll have time to put one together.
Actually UCOF, you're wrong. There is new completely wrong information in this thread that hasn't been suggested in previous threads. Most of the previous threads had incorrect information on fuels to use whereas this thread has incorrect information on the fundamental idea of 'burning' metal ions.
Perhaps if we compiled all of the incorrect information we could compile a definitive incorrect post without any factual information at all. This way, the five times a month that people post incorrect information about colored flames we can refer them to the definitive incorrect thread.
Metal salts don't burn. Ever. They don't have a 'low burn temp' nor do aluminum ions have 'high burn temperatures'. You can't incinerate iron (III). "No burn... no color" is a lie. Lots of things give off color that aren't burning, for example any light bulb or the computer screen you are looking at right now. Metal ions don't give off color because they are burning, they give off color because they are hot and the electrons are excited. The methanol (or other petrolium fuel) is the only thing that burns. The heat from this fire turns some of the metal ions into a gas which, as their electrons return to their stable state, give off light of certain colors. Salts DO NOT BURN.
A metal ion and a metal are two totally different things. When we talk about eating 'iron in spinach' or 'calcium in milk' or even 'lithium in antidepressants' we're talking about the ions. If you ate elemental calcium or lithium, you'd die. Any salt does not have that metal, as an element in it. Iron chloride has none of the properties of pure iron.
I've said before that the mass number of coloured flame threads is my own personal Kriptonite. Apparently it turns me into a sarcastic bastard as well.
A definitive post on colored flames would be lovely. Maybe if they add another day of the week I'll have time to put one together.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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