Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Many of you might remember that I used to perform with a dear friend Prometheus. He had to go his seperate ways from performing (though we are still friends and he still staves) because of his self-confessed "obsession" with me. It made it hard to practice at times, knowing that he got into fire only to be close to me. I have known him 5 years, he is also friends with Whipping Boy and things were tenuous but worked out once we stopped spending so much time together rehearsing. He is still one of my best friends.Enter another friend, let's call her "Kat". She and I have acted together several times over 3 years and have become friends.For awhile I thought she and Prometheus might be well suited to one another. I admit to playing a bit of a cupid role. He determined she is not right for him. She still wants him, and here is where it gets to be fun.For months she has been trying to tell him to get over me, to move on, tralalalala...but to no avail. He has told her he is not romantically interested point blank. She blames me. So, she wanted to work with me as a safety and for me to teach her oral fire. I was working on this when someone pointed out to me that this could be her way of trying to compete with me, or moreover, be more like me to gain his attention. I ignored it. I understand being lonely and wanting to do extreme things to be with someone. After all I think that is what half my high school antics were about?
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Anyway, so I was talking to Prometheus last night and he informed me that Kat said that she would rather forego her friendship with me to try to be with him, despite that he doesn't want her. And to boot, she has been encouraging him to cut off ties with me completely!! And she honestly believes that she can come between a really solid, hard earned friendship!That was very much like a knife twisted right in the back. I really love Kat, and her beautiful daughter, but I can't have this in my life. Prometheus is none to impressed with it either.I am feeling very much betrayed and do not want to even talk to Kat anytime in the forseeable future, which since I am so expendable shouldn't be an issue.Anyway, this has forced me to re-evaluate my definition of a friend, and I found I had to include new phrasing in that to accomodate people online whom I have never met but truly feel they are friends...so, here goes....A friend, to me, is a person that you can share everything with, good and bad and nonsensical. We help, and work, because all relationship worth having are work. We forgive, even if we don't forget and honesty is paramount. We can agree to disagree, and we support one another even when we don't agree. We can have completely different lives but want to share those lives with one another. We have undefined and unconditional love, respect and trust. And no matter how much time has passed since the last time we spoke or shared, when we talk all time is forgiven and all distance seems to melt away because right then, our friendship is what counts.For those of you who are my friends, know that I have enjoyed every moment getting to know you and sharing with you, and that I treasure even the smallest fraction of time we can spend "together", be it in person, on the phone, or on the net, even though not as frequent as we would like.
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What is your definition of friendship?------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:Friend - Someone who you actively seek out to spend time with, and who actively seeks you out to spend time with.Close Friend - Someone whom you trust who also trusts you. This means they are not afraid to do things in your best interest, even if it may hurt you in the short term. They and you trust that the friendship can live through such things.Fianc My snoogywoogykins! ------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nz

HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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Kinudin (Soul Fyre)
veteran
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Member Since: 21st Dec 2001
Total posts: 1325
Posted:Friendship to me is only to be had with someone you can look up to, someone that has some of the same interests as you, someone that will let you change and someone that you can trust.A bestfriend is all of the above, plus you can trust with your life, or you've just known them the longest.

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SorchaTheFlaming
member
Location: Calgary alberta Canada
Member Since: 26th Jun 2001
Total posts: 235
Posted:what pele said..i honestly dont have many friends sadly. im a bit of a black sheep/whathave you.theres a few aqquaintences but no one i would trust to be alert with a wet towle/fire extinguisher to put me out if needed. theyd probably set it down and go have a acouple beer. ive been in situations similar to you Pele!so i hear ya loud and clear. actually it was pretty much the same situation only without the fire stuff involved. finally i said to them "to hell with you both when you decide to grow up a little and get a grip ill be around" ive only heard from the male counterpart since then. and he to no avail ended up dating the girl that liked him so much even though he didnt feel the same way.then they broke up shortly after as he realized that the girl was "not right in the head". and before this happened i went on to play with my fire and continued my little path of becoming the most decent person i can be.... the story continues. truth is you can't fix other peoples problems if they dont want them fixxed. its a sad fact but a true one..
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Pele you can e-mail me if ya need to vent!!
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[This message has been edited by SorchaTheFlaming (edited 31 January 2002).]


Teach tolerance, not competition.
Send food, not bombs.

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chook
member
Location: murwillumbah, nsw, Australia
Member Since: 21st Jan 2002
Total posts: 3
Posted:hey this is my first post, and on such an important topic, i to have had friendship woes but lets not go there, i believe a friend is someone you can trust, share with, and love no matter what. You work your way through the problems and dont give up easly. I've broken the law for my friends, i'd even die of one or two of them, and thats not in light hummour, i'm deadly serious. PS i love fire

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Bendy
member
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Member Since: 29th Aug 2001
Total posts: 750
Posted:To me a friend is someone you can have a good time with, or enjoy spending time with, or someone who you can share your feelings with. They don't have to fit all of these attributes.I guess there are people who I consider friends that I am not very close to, that I might go for a long time without seeing or speaking to and not really care.For me it is like a collection of rings. I am the centre (well duh!
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) and my closest friends are around me, then there is a group of people around them and the further out the more distant the friendship. But I still consider them friends.My 2 closest friends (not including family) are my best mate from high school (Jarrod), and my ex-girlfriend (Ro).I fell for a girl that Jarrod really liked and had known for a year. A week later she and I hooked up (only for a few weeks), but before we did he told me that if he couldn't be with her then he wanted his best mate to be (although there were a few tense/uncomfortable moments).We would do anything for each other and want the best for one another. We also refer to each other as "my bitch"
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Ro was my first gf and is the only ex I still see (aside from the girl Jarrod liked) and I get on really well with her boyfriend too. I can trust her with anything and she can do the same with me.I guess where romance/lust/love or the like are involved it can get complicated. I think only the strongest relationships can withstand these complications. Other less strong friendships may be affected, but time will settle things, and some friendships can end.I hope that the link between you (Pele) and Prometheus and Kat is strong enough to last the rough times. A break from Kat could be a good thing, you never know when she is ready to move on from Prometheus, then you might be able to resume the friendship with little change - if that is what you want when the time comes.
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Courage is the man who can stop after only one peanut

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Jangla
member
Location: Oxford, UK
Member Since: 28th Aug 2001
Total posts: 155
Posted:A wise man once told me there are friends for a reason, friends for a season and friends for life.Friends for a reason appear in your life in the short term and then disappear or (more rarely) "graduate" to the next level.Friends for a season are those friends that come during a discernable period in your life.Friends for life...are self explanatory.And now the moral; None of these types of friend is better than the other and none should be considered over the rest. They all add to your character in both positive and negative ways but are an integral part of what defines you as the person you are right now.

---------------------With a bit of luck, his life was ruined; always thinking that just behind some narrow door, in his favourite bars, men in red woolen suits are getting incredible kicks from things he'll never know.

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Thanks all for the thoughts and support.I too have heard that Jangla, and I like the circle/ring of friends theory Bendy. Mine is very similar to that except I call those outer rings acquaintences!
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I do hold my closest friends as being more important that the fair weather, seasonal friend because I know that once the other friend moves on, my life long friend will still be there. I think everyone we meet, whether a friend or not touches our life in some way. I have heard strangers say the most profound things that have changed me the tiniest bit, and I never knew who they were. Another saying about friends:Friends will help you move, real friends will help you move the bodies!
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------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Firefairy
member
Location: UK
Member Since: 12th Oct 2001
Total posts: 115
Posted:Pele, sorry to hear. it hurts when someone you trusted and cared stabs u in the back. maybe when the pain stops youll be able to talk to her again, but hen maybe the odd smile 'd do!I do want to be able to trust my friends - thats the biggest thing of all. But sometimes our ideas of what a friend should be turns into expectation of how they should act. its better to expect nothing, accept them as they come.

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:I think friendship is tough for me to define since I've got so many different "worlds" in my life. My mom's family, my dad's family, my work, my fire friends, my college friends, and my high school friends. NONE of whom have ever met anyone from the other group in my memory.I strongly agree with the "friends for a reason/season/ life" explanation, though had never heard it put quite so elegantly. I must admit that I have VERY low tolerance for friendship drama. Love me or hate me but you can't do both. Save the drama for your mamma.
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I sometimes get sad that I can't be with all of the people in the planet that I love all at once, but I appreciate the moments.If you're an overly social person, you're going to be stuck with friends that you don't like. If you're a person with minimal tolerance for drama, like me, you may not have enough friends to play a football game in the park, but the ones you do have are keepers.
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Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:I hear you on that one, NYC.At university, I had three major groups of friends, the pissheads (who were fun), the intellectuals (who were also fun) and another group that was a bit more rounded (fun too!).It was usually a bad idea to get the different groups together, unless it was one of each, but I got on well with all of them.Now, since leaving uni, I've got even more groups of sometimes exclusive people, the Computer Jugglers, the Hippie Jugglers & Firies, the Poets, the Family (of course), my mums husbands family (4 sets of married's with children!), work friends as well as quite a few i met while practicing or unicycling down the road...oh and several other friends who are fairly well rounded.Some people think it's great to have lots of friends, but when your friends don't often like each other it can turn into an organisational nightmare. I must admit to losing a few people because I became frustrated with their impatience for my other friends and I do still regret that.It's a bloody headache sometimes but I'm hoping my marriage will help to sort out things out a little better. most of my married friends said their social life became a lot easier afterwards...fingers crossed aye?------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nz7[This message has been edited by Charles (edited 01 February 2002).]

HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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SickpuPpy
SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Member Since: 27th Nov 2001
Total posts: 1100
Posted:A good friend is someone that you can trust with your life.A best friend is someone you can trust with your wife.------------------If you love something, set it on fire.

Jesus helps me trick people.

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:On the friend thing, it's complex. A friend to me is somebody who feels like a friend. No real definition, just an emotional feeling.On Pele's situation I can sympathise as I've been there, but on the other side. I've completely fallen for someone who is seeing someone else. We're all aware of the situation but it is rarely awkward at all as we're adults. I treat her as a good friend, nothing more. Hidden away there are other feelings, but that's for me to deal with. To let them interfere with the lovely friendships we've developed would be a great waste, and can be very childish.Unfortunately not everyone can think on the 2 levels at the same time and tend to want the all or nothing option. I've seen it happen a few times, and it's always painful for all sides.Such are the trials of life. It'd be too boring otherwise!
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Cassandra
Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 4224
Posted:I've come to realize that friends to me are those who can help out when I am down or in trouble...And real friends are those who can sincerely share my happiness too...I love having all sorts of friends yet just a few "real" friends and I love the fact that my boyfriend is my best friend too though he is definitely the only friend I sleep with
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Being disappointed by friends is a pain I've had quite often. I am really sorry for you Pele.I found myself at a point where I was starting to get really cynical ... but I decided to not let go and continue giving. As for trust ... wow, that takes time !!!SHINE ONCassandra[This message has been edited by cassandra (edited 02 February 2002).]


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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Mushinkato
member
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK
Member Since: 6th Dec 2001
Total posts: 164
Posted:Pele.. I gotta say it girl, I recognise that tune.. oh yes !!! After reading all the replies on this thread and also the ones on your kudos thread, I feel the need to get a little something off my chest too.I was dating a beautiful girl up until just before x-mas last year (always a tough time to split up). She was young and volatile; a typical teenager going through turbulent times at home/uni/hormones etc etc, and the type who would point blank refuse to listen to advice or criticism. (Just like I used to be at that age).The reason for us splitting up was simple.. we just grew apart. The smouldering had been going on a while, but about six/seven months ago the fire started burning properly when I really started taking the spinning seriously. I had found something in life (and the folk that go with it) that gave; and still gives me more pleasure than all my years in the dojo. I tried to get her interested but she just wouldnt have it. I knew all along that it wasnt my place to try and change her, but all I was after was a little interest or encouragement. I used to do that for her all the time; with her uni work or social affairs or whatever - even if it bored the hell out of me. I always kept an open mind and disagreed on occasions if I felt it was necessary. No matter how much Zen or meditation or 'right thinking' or any of that stuff, I couldnt chill her out. She was always uptight about something; always far too concerned with what other people thought of her/me/...looking.. and I quote 'stupid' practicing poi on a beach in Rhodes last summer..Im the kind of guy, and I think this applies to a lot of us here, that couldnt give a flying fcuk what we looked like practicing poi on a beach. This was a girl who I considered my best friend.. not just a girlfriend. It breaks my heart to say this, but I am still really really angry about that. I know the past is gone and its an illusion in our minds etc etc, but it was at that moment when we were packing our cases and I threw the poi's in that I found out what lay ahead. "You're NOT taking THOSE".. with the pained sarcastic expression.."why not ?". I asked."Beacause you'll look like a complete prick.. why cant you just be normal.."She started being like that over everything in the end.. not just poi.Thats why were not together now. Yes.. poi has had a great deal to do with the breakdown of our relationship. It was starting to go sour long before that though.So there you have it.. Ive lost a friend but gained many more in the process. The only thing I miss is the closesness and intimacy of a 'special' friend. I sometimes wonder when I look at all you guys out there who have partners that are into the same thing; what the hell is it like..?? I wont be doing the dating stuff for a while again.. not now. Not unless I come across somebody who isnt necessarily into the same thing, but someone who is satisfied with who I am and wants no more than that. That, to me, is a true friend.I'll quit there... Im sorry for going on so long but Im a little upset right now. All this fun and happiness; all these wonderful people doing such beautiful things, and the one person I REALLY wanted to share it with... well.. nuff said.Over & out------------------Kato[This message has been edited by Mushinkato (edited 02 February 2002).]

Kato

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Blackbird
member
Location: London UK
Member Since: 23rd Jul 2001
Total posts: 337
Posted:I must say I don't like that definition of a friend that Pele began with, although I realise this is just because, under that, I don't have any...

x X x Ĉ К я x X x

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:I'm sorry Blackbird. I just thought of what friends I have, and what we share and wrote that down! I didn't mean to make you feel sad.Been there Kato, and when people change like that, it is so terribly hard. Someday you will find a princess worthy of everything you offer, poi included!
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Thanks all for the inspiring responses. I talked with Prometheus this weekend, and determined that if Kat chooses to be this way, then I am better off without her. He doesn't want to hurt her so he is trying to find nice ways of telling her he doesn't want to "be" with her, and that hell and high water will not tear his and my friendship apart, let alone a mere girl.Big thing is, I admit, this has completely jaded me to the thought of making new friends though. I think I will stick with acquaintences that I hold away from me at arm's length, you know?I appreciate all the responses!Love------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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robingreenshoes
member
Location: Surrey, London
Member Since: 5th Feb 2002
Total posts: 32
Posted:To me friendship means trust and reliability and that's about it for me. If I can trust someone and have them trust me, if I can be confident to rely on someone and have them rely on me then that is friendship to me.A very rare thing I find. I know a lot of people but I would only regard two of them as friends. I like all the others but I would call them no more that close aquantances. If they read this I'm sure many of them would be very hurt but luckily none of them swing so I doubt they will.Rob

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Tanzen
member
Location: Jacksonville, Florida USA
Member Since: 4th Feb 2002
Total posts: 55
Posted:A friend bails you out of jail.A best friend is sitting in jail with you talking about how cool that was.Tanzen------------------Ravers don't share glowsticks!

Ravers don't share glowsticks!

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:If you go to a random quote site, like QuoteWorld, and type in something like 'friend' or 'a friend is someone' then you get some very cool answers."A friend is someone who dances with you in the sunlight, And walks with you in the shadows."

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fluffy napalm fairy
fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Member Since: 12th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3638
Posted:A friend is someone who brings out the beautiful things in you that others don't look hard enough to find.I kinda like that
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Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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