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Ajay


member
Location: Oxford, U.K.

Total posts: 158
Posted:i was reading the gawd damn thread and nomads post got me thinkingi used to read afew juggling message boards and when people where saying a really good trick there are many juggling moves which are insanly hard like for instance 5 ball mills mess which anyone who knows about juggling will know if practicaly impossible. its theses moves that are used when exagerating stuff. (does that make any sence to any one but me?) what would you say are the "ultimate" poi and staff moves which people have as there goal to learn?im not saying poi are easy but would you say it is more style that sets apart different skills and less about indevidual move difficulty?

One fine day in the middle of the night,
Two dead men got up to fight,
Back to back they faced each other,
Drew there swords and Shot each other.

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Cassandra


Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !

Total posts: 4224
Posted:I'd say poi as we are doing it now being quite "new" the "ultimate move" definitely has not been invented yet... but that's just my opinion...as for my ultimate move, except for that BTB stuff i only get every once in a while for longer than a minute... the one I dream of is butterfly ==> double throw==> double catch ==> reverse butterfly ... because dreams is what keep us alive
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shine onCassandra


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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wulff


member
Location: SA, TX, USA

Total posts: 79
Posted:ohh ohh.. (done in a John Stewart from Half Baked manerism)How about quote:the one I dream of is butterfly ==> double throw==> double catch ==> reverse butterfly ... BTB!heheh sorry... wulff

wulff

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nomad
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

nomad

retired
Location: Paris, France

Total posts: 356
Posted:Now that I've got the btb stuff down (still working on all the possible turns from btw fwd weave to btb rvs weave and vice versa...), I'd say the ultimate move is doing weaves with 2 chains in each hand. One of the guys at Anthelion weaves with 2 chains in one hand already... See, that's what gets me going
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Nomad


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foobaa


foobaa

spinning for ages
Location: Christchurch

Total posts: 125
Posted:yes I am thinking 4 poi moves are going to be the wave of "hard moves" to come along...I better start my practicing soon!!!------------------fe fi foo fun

fe fi foo fun

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Total posts: 3989
Posted:I think an ultimate move for Poi or Staff would have to be an unattainable one, like moving them with your mind!!!Imagine doing a BTB eave with five poi all at the same time while your arms are stuck in a straightjacket.But maybe I've just had too much cofee today...------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nz

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phunky


old hand
Location: Edmonton, AB

Total posts: 877
Posted:ultimate move?btb 5-beat and turning it!7-beat weave (non wrap)6-beat corkscrew (non wrap)------------------[]Dhuong-Vu Truong==== []Dhunky ====

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Cantus
SILVER Member since Jul 2001

Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom

Total posts: 15965
Posted:Ultimate staff move = a doubles move definitely.Something I can't do yet obviously. But it'd have to be something that only I can do. There's so much that these fellows can do and I can't. Ultimate suggests that they can't do it either. Wait 'til the international gathering and we'll see then.Don't hold your breath though....

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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Whiffle Squeek


Whiffle Squeek

addict
Location: Hartford, CT USA

Total posts: 416
Posted:ok, i have seen some, at least what i consider ultimate moves, it was on PBS of all channels, they had a special on the Shaolin Monks, now these guys are increidbly nasty, and can do anyhting with everyhting, and one of the things they did, was poi, and to top it off, they chains looked to be about 8-10 feet long, and the guy was still spinning em faster than i have ever seen. He at one point, sat donw on the ground, feet out straight in front of him, and started bouncing, and was able to spin one of the chains underneath himself at each bounce, and the other over his head, and that was incredibly impressive, and when i tried it, i was only able to jerk my shoulder up and down, and make a total ass of myself, but that wasnt even the most impressive, at one he ran forward, and jumped, and while in t he air, he lay down so he was horizontal, did a 360, one poi spinning over him, the other below him, and then landed on his feet. Absolutely incredible, and not really an actual move, but still incredible...oh, and they did crazy stuff with a three-section staff, but thats another story...

Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:I don't think there is one for me. If I focus on that "goal" move then I lose sight of all the other possibilites. So I practice with what feels right, and experiment with things until they feel right and then keep going. I sleep on it and invent. For me (being the showperson) it isn't about ultimate techincal anything, but about the ultimate reaction from an audience....nothing but the sound of wind and crickets chirping until broken by thunderous applause. Now that is a goal!
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And btw Cass, looking at your poi when in butterfly and relating release times to the number positions on a clock....release them when the right would be at the 5 and the left would be at the 7. Cross your wrists and catch them (left at the 3 and right at the 9). This will create a slight stall, uncross your wrists and go into your rbfly. If you don't hit them at just the right point they will fly away. I am still working on it!
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------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com[This message has been edited by Pele (edited 21 December 2001).]


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Psylentz
SILVER Member since Dec 2001

member
Location: Manville, Rhode Island, USA

Total posts: 72
Posted:ultimate move right here...remember when daffy duck drank all that nitroglycerine and had that act he could only do once when he blew up?EXPLODING STAFF it's like speed, but in reverse, once you get it to so many rpm's (this can work for poi too) it just BOOM in the middle of a weave! YAH!AND WHEN YER REINCARNATED... DO IT BTB!------------------~ Tiger, Tiger, burning bright... ~

"The Q is talkin' to me!!!"

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 4993
Posted:i agree with Whiffle Squeek, shaolin monks " wheel of life" video is well worth looking at.! some pretty impressive stuff they can do with poi, staff, meteors etc.. check it out for your selves, good story to it too!pk

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Katinca


Katinca

See my vest.... see my vest...
Location: Adelaide - South Australia

Total posts: 693
Posted:Okay.....This is one I would love to do, but I think you would need the strength of an Olympic gymnast.Basically, imagine a one handed butterfly, then going in to a one handed handstand, with your legs in the splits. Then swing your one handed butterfly through your legs from front to back.I am not sure if it is entirely possible. I think you might over balance, but wow it would look cool
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Love and Light------------------ ~*~ Katinca ~*~


Love and Light

~*~ Katinca ~*~

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SickpuPpy


SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.

Total posts: 1100
Posted:Whiffle Squeek, this 8 to 10 foot poi you speak of, it has a name. It is called chain whip. Two of my friends do it and it looks cool as hell when it's on fire. Fittingly enough, one friend taught the other, and he did study Shaolin Kung fu for a long time.As for an "ultimate move"...I kind of hope that no one ever finds one. Perfection has an inheirant flaw, that is that perfection is the end. There is no place to go from perfection other than to imperfection. William S. Burrows once wrote that "The instant you cease to grow you begin to die". The thing that keeps me so interested in spinning fire is the fact that I keep learning and growing as I go along (exept for my hair, I seem to keep singing that). It is the feeling of accomplishment when I learn something new that drives me to do more. I would kind of like to keep my illusion that there is no "ultimate" anything, and that there is no end to the growth process. But then that's just me.Cheers------------------If you love something, set it on fire.[This message has been edited by SickpuPpy (edited 21 December 2001).]

Jesus helps me trick people.

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SickpuPpy


SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.

Total posts: 1100
Posted:Of course DaVinci wrote that "Art is never finished, only abandoned".------------------If you love something, set it on fire.

Jesus helps me trick people.

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Ajay


member
Location: Oxford, U.K.

Total posts: 158
Posted:as for juggling anyway there can never be an ultimate move as you can always just add another ball.there for there is an infinate number of juggling tricks.but for poi (asuming you limit the number of poi and dont include the "10 poi in each hand 5 beat weave") surely there is a limited number of moves but with poi being a newwer thing as said before that move probably doesn't exist now.there for with poi its alot more about style and how you link the move together.

One fine day in the middle of the night,
Two dead men got up to fight,
Back to back they faced each other,
Drew there swords and Shot each other.

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Cassandra


Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !

Total posts: 4224
Posted:Pele, hun... I need to print that out and practice what you describe... I don't quite understand what you mean ... will practice over my Xmas vacation
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i'd been thinking about this thread yesterday evening and I think you could either say like Charles (is it really only cofee you drink, Charles
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) that the ultimate move is no-move, just like some people say the ultimate music is silence... or you could say it is endless ... either way, I can only hope to continue enjoying the way rather than achieveing the goal and never get *really* bored...shine onCassandra


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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yanddsan


stranger
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Total posts: 3
Posted:five ball mills mess in juggling as the ultimate? nonsense I'm afraid, I'm a juggler and a fire performer and recently myself and friends have been trying 5 ball mills mess with success, one friend nearly has it solid, and... I've seen it done with 5 clubs. And after five ball mills what then? 6 ball, 7 ball, 8 ball etc. The point is that when you reach the hardest thing, you or some one else will come up with the next 'ultimate' move. And these will only ever be in one style. In juggling you can do 7 balls and do a trick with 3 that is as hard but in a different style.

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Maximus


member
Location: Upland, CA., USA

Total posts: 250
Posted:The Chinese name for the chain whip is Tchut Jit Bin. I use meteor hammer and base my moves on three section staff (Sarm Jit Kwan) moves I learned in Kung-fu. Never got as far as the whip, though.Maximus

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TheGrynygogg


member
Location: England, just north of London

Total posts: 47
Posted:I dream of being on the top of a really high poll thing and using stupidly long poi. Ha, that'll show'em I think, just before falling off. Damn!I'm thinking of adapting Poi and staff in a very clever but not fully thought out way. It'll be good if it works but it'll kill me if it doesn't.And watch this space for the flying suit. HAHA, That'll show 'em.

Just ignore me. Everyone else does.

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Ajay


member
Location: Oxford, U.K.

Total posts: 158
Posted:yanddsan you slightly missed the point,i wasn't saying that the 5bmm was the "ultimate move" i said it was really hard, and you cant say that its not.as i said in my post, in juggling you cant have an ultimate move as you can always add another ball.

One fine day in the middle of the night,
Two dead men got up to fight,
Back to back they faced each other,
Drew there swords and Shot each other.

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SickpuPpy


SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.

Total posts: 1100
Posted:Grynygogg's post gave me an idea for something. If this isn't "ultimate" poi, then it's pretty goddamned close.In Mexico the have those guys that swing around a really tall pole on ropes tied to thier ankles. Just wrap them in kevlar, dunk 'em in kero, light them up, and there's your "ultimate" poi.
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If only they could get down the 5-beat weave......------------------If you love something, set it on fire.[This message has been edited by SickpuPpy (edited 22 December 2001).]


Jesus helps me trick people.

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DocLiquid


member
Location: Naples, Florida

Total posts: 97
Posted:sickpup,I tend to agree with your philosophy of growth and anti-perfection. I would hate to learn that there is an ultimate move thus eventually ending my dreams of continual progress, whether it relates to poi or life in general. But BTB 5beat and turn to windmill split time tongue wrap would be pretty cool.PLUHR DOC

Let us Light up the Night

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:Yo,I see what you mean by the ultimate move as the non-move. I believe there are infinate possibilities for things to do with a stick and any one 'move' mesured against an infinity of others cant be seen as significant. Coresponds quite nicly with Tao as the ultimate move becomes an infinity of moves becomes nothing, the space between. I think the ultimate movement is wu-wei, action without effort, doing without doing. Happy with paradox?I also know what the original meaning of this thread was, and the move that keeps me inspired, something I dont think ill ever do is throwing both double staffs at the side of your body, turning 180 and catching them.Hummm.... maybe this is possible, havent actually tried (scared)
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Love[This message has been edited by Nix? (edited 23 December 2001).]


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Whiffle Squeek


Whiffle Squeek

addict
Location: Hartford, CT USA

Total posts: 416
Posted:mmm, the shaolin really are incredible, too bad im not chinese, and that the wont accept you after youre like a year old...and i really wanna get good with three section, its incredibly hard, but its also so good looking too, mmm, double three section staff moves, that would be some hot shit...

Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Ajay


member
Location: Oxford, U.K.

Total posts: 158
Posted:doc, i know what your saying, but the thing is the way poi is constantly developing what now might be the "ultimate move" not be for long as a newer better move will appear.but also people should have there own semi-ulimate move, like a target , somthing to keep aiming at. when i first started poi a couple of months back, i looked on the poi lessons here adn just looked all the way through even though i knew that i wouldn't be able to do it all to see what i would (hopefuly) be doing eventualy and i saw the 5beat weave which was my target. i just cracked this and reset my target at some btb stuff, its a constantly evolving thing.for me the overall ultimate poi move will always be ahead of me because as i get better, it will porgress as new moves are created.its the people at the forefront who can do the best moves who are the ones creating the better moves and so they dont have target ultimate moves becase for them they havn't been created yet.so i suppose what im trying to say is, the ultimate move is a bit of a non-entity because either its always ahead of you, or already behind you. [This message has been edited by Ajay (edited 24 December 2001).]

One fine day in the middle of the night,
Two dead men got up to fight,
Back to back they faced each other,
Drew there swords and Shot each other.

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DocLiquid


member
Location: Naples, Florida

Total posts: 97
Posted:well ajay, I'd be hard pressed to disagree with you, as I have come to the same theory. I as well(along with everyone else who posts here) set goals for myself. Whether it be the reverse 5beat to BTB 360 which I just recently pulled off or the BTB reverse 5 beat which I'm shooting for now. Well I hope you reach goals.PLUHRDOC

Let us Light up the Night

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DocLiquid


member
Location: Naples, Florida

Total posts: 97
Posted:well ajay, I'd be hard pressed to disagree with you, as I have come to the same theory. I as well(along with everyone else who posts here) set goals for myself. Whether it be the reverse 5beat to BTB 360 which I just recently pulled off or the BTB reverse 5 beat which I'm shooting for now. Well I hope you reach goals.PLUHRDOC------------------Let us Light up the Night

Let us Light up the Night

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SickpuPpy


SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.

Total posts: 1100
Posted:Whiffle,If you ever, ever pull off double three sections I'm gonna soil myself, so if you can get it down you have to post a vid. I used to work with a three section and after all my years in martial arts and all the diffirent weapons I've delt with the three section was by far the most evil and painful weapon to learn. If you can do it you, most definatly, will have my respect and awe
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Good luck!And have an ice pack handy
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------------------If you love something, set it on fire.[This message has been edited by SickpuPpy (edited 24 December 2001).]


Jesus helps me trick people.

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Whiffle Squeek


Whiffle Squeek

addict
Location: Hartford, CT USA

Total posts: 416
Posted:oh, my three section hates me, i had quite a nice lasting bruise above my right eye that was left from an attempt at rolling the evil thing across my shoulders, my hand wasnt quite quick enough to catch it on the other side, and thwack...but right now, im still working on controlling a single three section, once i can move well with one, its on to two...

Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Whiffle Squeek


Whiffle Squeek

addict
Location: Hartford, CT USA

Total posts: 416
Posted:im also thinking of investing in a helmet and shinguards of sorts...

Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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