Forums > Social Chat > What the *!^% is wrong with people!!!!??? (a cautionary tale)

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SickpuPpy
SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Member Since: 27th Nov 2001
Total posts: 1100
Posted:I know, I know. There are probobly about a hundred treads on fire saftey on the HOP, but I have a major bitch that I've gotta get off my chest.So last night I did my first real performance (that is to say that there were more than ten people there). It was a pretty shitty venue to begin with. It was a small bar off of Broadway here in Denver. Apparently, from what one of the guys who orginized it, the only place with a DJ and a dance floor who would let them perform and not charge them out the ass, but it had low ceilings and a stage with all kinds of weird obsticles on it. I ended up giving a really horible performance because of lack of room, nerves, and trying to keep the ends of my staff from hitting the ceiling. Bad times.The guy who, I think, was the major hand in orginizing this show was running around before every one went on making shure every one had a spotter. The group that I perform with had already, before hand, devised a way to take the exess fuel off our wicks as not to rain fire on the audience or burn down the bar. Then this guy gets up and does his act, a poi/fire breathing/torch spinning deal. On the first spin fire goes every where. They had left the top off of thier container of white gas and that shit went right up in flames. And guess what, NO FUCKING SPOTTER!!! Apparently the only reason they even noticed was that my good friend's boyfriend (a poi master visiting from San Francisco) was screaming "SAFETY!! SAFETY!!" at the top of his lungs. Their fire breathing act had fuel going all over the crowd and it was just a really bad scene.Fire on the floor, on the walls, and wicks hitting the ceiling. Now I know how NOT to put on a fire show. I know a bunch of people who spin fire and I have never seen such a blatent disregaurd of the saftey of the crowd, the performers, and the well being of the venue that was so nice as to let us perform.Bad times. Bad times.

Jesus helps me trick people.

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Shouden-CrD
Veteran Member
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Member Since: 30th Apr 2001
Total posts: 495
Posted:damn..that's crazy. Incidents like that unfortunately give all fire performers a bad name. I hope they take further measures in their future performances..------------------ [PLUR]-=Crazy Raver Dude=-

-=razyRaverude=-

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.draevon
.draevon

member
Location: Androgen
Member Since: 12th Dec 2000
Total posts: 92
Posted:Look at that kids ... another accident wih white gas/shellite ... let's all try and figure this out hey??

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firefabulon
member
Location: San Diego
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 12
Posted:That seems odd. Most people I know in Denver are very hip to the safety seen. So much so that they were holding safety workshops. Also the COFT has links to safety on their page.Hmmm....stuff like this is very disappointing to hear as it could effect all of us down the line. When it comes to safety I like to think that I am representing all fire performers and therefore would not want to jeopardize anyone's chances of performing because I wasn't safe and burned something down.But I too am not immune to being around people who have organized some sort of performance and when asked who is holding the wet towels, they shrug their shoulders and say "I don't know" and then I am scrambling to find someone minutes before the performance. It's frustrating. I feel your irritation.Safety First!

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:Draevon, you beat me to it!Guys, just in case you think it's was just the unprofessional guys safety attitude, the use of white gas on a stage or enclosed area is very dangerous.Even if you 'know' how to handle it, unless you have several safetys around, chances are that things can get out of hand really quickly. This is largely due to both the dangerously low flashpoint (not just your fire, but smokers in the audience, or candle on tables etc, the confined area you are in and the number of people around who can get in the way, or try to 'help' and make things really dangerous.Also, another point is to always check out the venue you are going to perform at, preferably doing a lit practice run during the day or some time where there aren;t others around.This isn't just for you, it is just as important that you explain and show the fire safety reqyuirements to the owners, so that THEY UNDERSTAND IT. Otherwise they can make last minute changes to props, decorations or other things without even considering how it may affect your performance.Its unfortunate that this happened on your first performance, although it sounds forntunate that the previous guy didn't burn down the whole place, especially if he was flinging buring bits around and had an open container of white gas.Sheesh, I expect the spectators to be a little silly somtimes but this is amazing....------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nz

HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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Maelstrom
Maelstrom

member
Location: Akron, Ohio
Member Since: 12th Sep 2001
Total posts: 135
Posted:I realy just want to call you names. And right pages and pages about why you were in the wrong even though your attempting to say that everyone else made the mistakes but you. I would just like to remind you that you alway have the choose of not lighting up if you don't feel safe, that means that you have enough room, people are there for saftey's, the cieling is high enough ect.. You were liable my friend! Had anything truely gone bad, it would be your butt faceing the law. It's incidents like this that prove to the rest of us YOU shouldn't shouldn't play with fire! Don't ruin everyone elses time just so you can have your five min. in the lime light. There's usually a parking lot near by take the fire toys outside. Were you working on contract? Because if you weren't, the owner of the Venue could denie the fact that he know you were going to perform and then your in alot more trouble. How about a fire permit? I don't think you did, because by the sound of it no fire marshall in the world would look at the performance area and deamed it safe. Are you insured? One incident like the one you were set up for you'd be lucky to find it again, much less spin fire ever again with out faceing fines or jail time. Maybe next time you'll be smart enough to say no when it's not safe. And then leave if people are still going to perform. It's realy the only way to keep yourself from being liable. What the hell, fire breathing with low ceilings and spattering fuel on guests. If I was the guy who set up the party your asses would have been out the door right at that point. Not to mention my lawyer would be calling after you set my place on fire. What do you do for the shows climax set babies a fire? By the way a poi master from San. Fran.......realy! You would think with a master's knowledge they would have noticed the unsafe conditions and had enough guts to speak up and do something about it. Master indeed.[This message has been edited by Maelstrom (edited 13 December 2001).]

Nothing good ever comes from hanging out with normal people.

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Missy
member
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Member Since: 30th Nov 2001
Total posts: 10
Posted:Sorry man, that *sucks*. I must agree with Maelstrom though, If it not safe, dont do it. Walk away and save you reputation, your life and the lives of your audience. These dont really sound like the type of folks you want to be performing around anyway. If you do "end up" at a show like this, it could never hurt to hold off on your performance and grab a towell. Better luck, and percautions next time. :-), Missy

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Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 15965
Posted:Maelstrom, who the hell are you talking to?Have you actually read all of the words that Sickpuppy wrote? Because it seems that you have skimmed through and drawn your own conclusions.He clearly states quote:The guy who, I think, was the major hand in orginizing this show was running around before every one went on making shure every one had a spotter.Then goes on to say quote:The group that I perform with had already, before hand, devised a way to take the exess fuel off our wicks as not to rain fire on the audience or burn down the bar.Are you following this? quote:Then this guy gets up and does his act, a poi/fire breathing/torch spinning deal. On the first spin fire goes every where. They had left the top off of thier container of white gas and that shit went right up in flames. And guess what, NO FUCKING SPOTTER!!!Are you still reading all the words?Did you follow them? Did you catch the part when he said that the organisers checked if everyone had a safety? From this did you perhaps draw the conclusion, like every other sound minded person did, that everyone present answered in the affirmative and therefore the show went ahead?Did you read how Mr Puppy's troupe had worked out their safety regimes/tactics before the show?DId you happen to notice how it said "this guy gets up"? Not "my friend gets up" A guy. As in someone unknown. Someone not attached to puppy in the slightest. Did you glance at the part where it says quote:Apparently the only reason they even noticed was that my good friend's boyfriend (a poi master visiting from San Francisco) was screaming "SAFETY!! SAFETY!!" at the top of his lungs.As in puppy's friend raised the alarm because no one else had noticed. Not the guy on stage or anyone else from his group.Did you read any of that or did you just put your ranting hat on and decide to abandon the facts in order to have a good whine?Did you also skip school the day they did paragraphs? You obviously wanted to come across as the sensible, knowing one in all of this. But you've just come across as the boorish, insensitive, ill-informed, arrogant idiot.Maybe Puppy made a mistake in performing in that venue. With it's low ceilings and obstacle strewn stage. But i'm guessing he made a judgement call. And from the sounds of it the promoters (who still aren't Sickpuppy no matter how much you shout) couldn't find anywhere else suitable.You said "I realy just want to call you names well I really just want to ..... No, I'm not stooping to your level.Apparently you edited that message as well. I'd hate to see what nonsense you took out. Maybe that's when your reasoned argument fell by the wayside.And, as you seem to be aquainted with a lawyer, perhaps you would be so good as to ask him how much trouble you could be in if sickpuppy sued you for the libelous and slanderous remarks you made against him.I can't believe how angry your post has made me.Unbelievable.This message has been edited in the name of taste and decency.

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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nomad
nomad

retired
Location: Paris, France
Member Since: 15th Jan 2001
Total posts: 356
Posted:Charles and Draevon, me and my group are doing our first major fire performance in a large venue for new year's eve.This will also be a first time indoor performance for us. What do you recommend for fuel? It seems like you're both again coleman fuel, which i thought was the way to go indoors because it smokes less.Nomad

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adamrice
adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA
Member Since: 19th Dec 2000
Total posts: 1015
Posted:I don't have a lot of experience performing indoors myself, and to be honest, I would have thought Coleman to be a good bet. The alternative would be smokeless/odorless lamp oil. The problem with that is that it is an oil, and even assuming you energetically spin off your wicks, you'll still get some cast-off fuel when you are performing. After a few sets, this means a slippery floor. Coleman will evaporate quickly--lamp oil won't.This will give you a much longer and cooler burn than Coleman. I'ts pretty clean, but not strictly odorless.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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nomad
nomad

retired
Location: Paris, France
Member Since: 15th Jan 2001
Total posts: 356
Posted:Thanks for the tips Adam. I was gonna go with a 50/50 mix actually, good compromise between quick light-up, long enough burn, quick evaporation of cast-off fuel on the stage.Nomad

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cutie poi girlie
member
Location: porthtowan, truro, cornwall
Member Since: 14th Sep 2001
Total posts: 237
Posted:maelstorm-you have absolutely NO RIGHT to talk to sick puppy like that, especially when he has explained that it was NOT HIS FAULT! you following me? NOT HIS FAULT!
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Luv peace 'n' chicken grease Al X x

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:I am against white gas being used inside, UNLESS there is a serious safety crew there.This is at least 2 knowledgable people, a correct fire extinguisher (suitable for oil and electrical fires).And if the lid is put back on after you have dunked.An open container of White Gas is just asking for trouble.As for indoor gigs and fuels, a mix of white-gas and Pegasol or just pegasol on it's own would be my preference, but NYC does a lot more indoor gigs than I do, so he has more experience with these situations.BTW I have the feeling NYC has a serious safety crew, and doesn't have the fuel onstage anyway, is this right dude?------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nz

HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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SickpuPpy
SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Member Since: 27th Nov 2001
Total posts: 1100
Posted:Well goddamn, Cantus you've just made a friend today. As for Maelstrom, Perhapse I didn't make myself clear that this performance was an open call to all fire performers on Denver. My friends and I are always concerned with safety, foremost. Of the group that I spin with: three of us my self included, went up first. We all had cut a lot of really cool shit from our routines to accommidate the cramped and akward stage. We had done everything that we possibly could to make this safe for the audiance, ourselves, and the venue before we performed. WE started NO unintended fires, and WE ended up being the ones covering THEIR asses by putting all their shit out when it went up in flames.So you want to call me names? THEN YOU CAN CHOKE ON MY SALTY DICK SNOT!!!!! and maybe you should learn to read when you're done.

Jesus helps me trick people.

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Neph23
member
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Member Since: 24th Nov 2001
Total posts: 62
Posted:ewwww Puppy!
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As one of Puppies friends and fellow performer Id also like to add how i cut quite a bit of my performance in order to be safe. I also got to play safety for the other performers (couldn't spin out their wicks, set their fuel on fire, set the wall on fire, sent flaming fuel in to the crowed, didn't spin their wicks before lighting, turned the stage in to an ice skating rink ect..ect..) Im very big on safety, i don't want any one in our group or anyone watching us to get hurt. Kinda takes all the fun out of the art if you don't play by the rules of fire.*** quote:Also the COFT has links to safety on their page awesome people, and very helpful to new fire performers in denver. quote: Also, another point is to always check out the venue you are going to perform at, preferably doing a lit practice run during the day or some time where there aren't others around. *hangs her head in shame* Definitely something we over looked. But will never over look again.... *** The day I decided this is something I wanted to do i looked all around the web for information... I have found the best information here (HOP) on safety and fuels i find myself reading and searching this board quite often for information... Though i do respect that not everyone will have the same opinion as I do, it bothers me that a thread posted about safety could have turned in to a name bashing game. IMHO i feel what one was trying to get across would have been more appropriate if one was trying to make their point heard instead of trying to sound like a know it all... Im extremely new here, and am probably stepping out of bounds with this post, and for that I am sorry, but i will not let people down right bash my friends in order to make themselves appear the superior.. I feel you had some good points, but they were taken the wrong way due to your total disrespect for the obvious. Thank you to all who took the time to thoroughly read what Sick posted... I appreciate it...[This message has been edited by Neph23 (edited 15 December 2001).]


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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:My - tempers are running high today...And I'd have to agree with Cantus as well, not just in this thread but others as well, people (and I know I'm guilty of it to)tend to read the first post and then click "Post Reply" without checking out their facts before launching into a rant - either getting their facts wrong or repeating stuff that's been said before. I'm not sure about the whole legality in the UK, but i'd be amased if any club let people twirl fire inside a club - it's just not a good place to do it. You might have the best safties in the world, but spinning fire inside carries so many risks; you don't know what materials are in the room your spinning in and it just takes one drop of flaming fuel to land in the wrong place and you could be in trouble. Isn't that what glowsticks and Beamers are for?Just seems to me some people forget that just because they can spin fire doesn't mean they can control it. Sickpuppy - Sorry you had to be in that situation! I just hope you made a blatant effort to dis-associate yourself from the retards you saw. ------------------http://welcome.to/thehugbubble Words to memerise, words hypnotise, words make my mouth exercise.

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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SickpuPpy
SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Member Since: 27th Nov 2001
Total posts: 1100
Posted:Yeah, Durbs, I don't have the time or the energy to deal with numb nut morons like those, so I think I'll just avoid people like these all together.And just in case there are any more people out there who completely missed the point of this thread, like Maelstrom. I posted this as a cautionary tale for people who may be faced with a situation like this at some point (in case you didn't read the title of this thread). The whole point was to say "Watch out, because there are a lot of idiots out there" or, if you please, *ahem* (booming TV announcer voice) "Don't let this happen to you".It's Ok to put yourself at risk, it's your body and your life. Putting other people at risk is not ok, in fact, it makes you worse than filth. So please all of you be careful.with love, SickpuPpy

Jesus helps me trick people.

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Now hold up... cuz there been some rumors about me and my whitegas goin' around...Yes, I spin indoors and, yes, I use whitegas. BUT I WOULD NEVER SPIN WHITEGAS. ANYWHERE. I use very small amounts of whitegas to trail and eat ONLY. My trailing wicks are smaller than an inch by two and I never have more than half a cup of whitegas opened anywhere. IF I'm trailing the small amount of portable whitegas fuel never leaves my sight.I usually spin in 100% lamp oil. Occationally we'll cut it with a bit of whitegas but I'd NEVER SPIN PURE WHITEGAS.Two reasons why:1) Having an open container of whitegas is a recipie for disaster. I'm saddened to see that this recipie is being used to create disasters all over the planet.2) Whatever you hit with your poi WILL catch fire. That's the point of trailing but BAD news if you hit a body part or article of clothing with a large wick soaked in whitegas. IT WILL BURN, YOU WILL BURN.The place that I normally spin inside is a firespinners HEAVEN. It's a HUGE industrial space made of only concrete and steel. We keep our fuel FAR from where we perform. I literally soak, spin out, walk down a set of stairs, by security, by the bathrooms around the corner, and either up a ladder onto a platform or onto a large open space before lighting up.And yes, we always have a primary safety guy watching intensely as well as many other fellow spinners ready to spring into action. All have practiced putting out poi and staff as well as untangling. On the rare occation that someone does cross chains we've got the wicks out, untangled, and usually relit
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within 15 seconds.Nomad, I'd use smokeless lamp oil. No reason for whitegas really. I've never had a problem with smoke and have used Citronella lamp oil in large open indoor spaces. The only time that smoke was an issue was at Burningman Decom and that was because there were MANY propetually burning fire sculptures and more fire performers in an indoor space than I'd ever seen in my life (30+?)My High School english teacher once told me that you should never put "I think" before your sentences because it weakens them and it's obviously your thoughts or else you wouldn't be saying them so:Lamp oil is the best fuel. It is the safest as it will not transfer much, burns the longest, will not ignite without a wick, and does not burn relatively hot.NEVER use 100% whitegas to spin with anywhere. It can easily set you or others on fire. Though small amounts of it are necessary for trailing...The MOST dangerous thing any fire troupe can possibly do is have a large open container of whitegas near a flame. I honestly can not think of something related to firespinning that could kill more people quicker.50/50 whitegas/lamp oil is acceptable BUT will burn shorter and hotter than just lamp oil.Kerosine is stupid and smelly.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Knagi
member
Location: Brunswick, Ohio
Member Since: 28th Jun 2001
Total posts: 397
Posted:Gotta defend maelstrom in this. You guys turn and attack him so easyly. He knows what he's dealing with and when to keep his eye on others unlike SOME PEOPLE. He's also never experanced performers that wern't part of his wing.I gotta ask though... how many fire performers were there. And who's bright idea to call them all to an indoor location? AND WHY WAS THERE NO SAFTEY! Damn man I can't put the towel down unless I got a set of chains in my hands. I had something like this happen to me and I know that when it really comes down it everyone agrees that it was no one's fault. But it's not.. It's everyones fault, from the venue to the performers even the performers sitting ON THIER ASSES WATCHING. Hopefully you've learned a lesson from the idiots on stage and will saftey even when it's not needed or not your group of ppl playing.Btw if I hear another story of ppl doing performances without safteys heads are gonna roll.------------------We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonMost Memerable crowd saying "Hey look that dude's gonna set himself on fire again!"

We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonIt's going to come from a direction you didn't predict at a moment of chaos which you didn't see coming. -- NYC

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Syn23
member
Location: Denver Co.
Member Since: 14th Dec 2001
Total posts: 2
Posted:First off i'd like to intrduce myself. Hi everyone. Secondly i have to intervene in this for i was at said show in question. I am the person whom organized the fire troop that sick puppy is a part of. I am also the Safety personel for my troop accept when i am spinning then someone else does it. Thirdly it was not my group that set this fire, nor did my group not perform safely. In fact we are all pretty regamented on our safety. The issue is, at this particular event was that these two guys, whom were not apart of my tribe were the guys whom organized thee event. They ran around making sure that everyone was safe making sure that everyone perfroming had spotters, and then proceeded to spin and breathe, using a full white gas setup, no mixure involved, without a spotter of their own. Then when said moron guys lit up they got there fuel source ablaze, and were totaly oblivious to the fact. I agree in part with Maelstrom about the issues that he brings up, but the fact of the matter is, that it was a different tribe at the same venue that was being irresponsible, and unsafe. Maybe they just assumed that one of us would be there spotter but the fact of the matter is that they did not even ask and that is fuking rude.The moral if this story before you fly off the handle and start telling people about all the names you want to call them you need to sit back and think, and maybe read over things a couple more times, so you get the true point of whats going on.

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Neph23
member
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Member Since: 24th Nov 2001
Total posts: 62
Posted:quote:I gotta ask though... how many fire performers were there. And who's bright idea to call them all to an indoor location? AND WHY WAS THERE NO SAFTEY! 4 in our group pluss one guest from CA... 2 in the other group..it was an event to promote local artists, good idea, bad location... Our group had at least two safety for every one performer....In this situation, one would think the promoters who were telling everyone how to do safety properly would in fact also be following their rules. All in all it was a shitty learning experience and we know what to look out for now. Learning from ones mistakes is never fun.. its quite humbling in fact. Once again, I do appreciate everyone giving their advise.. it will not be disreguarded..[This message has been edited by Neph23 (edited 16 December 2001).]

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SickpuPpy
SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Member Since: 27th Nov 2001
Total posts: 1100
Posted:Maybe the moral is: Don't perform with other tribes. There is obvously too much bull shit to be stepped in to make it worth while.

Jesus helps me trick people.

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Neph23
member
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Member Since: 24th Nov 2001
Total posts: 62
Posted:Id like to perform with other groups.. Though after what occurred, Id like to go to one of their shows and see how they perform now.. Defantly going to be overly cautious. Just to keep me safe...[This message has been edited by Neph23 (edited 17 December 2001).]

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SickpuPpy
SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Member Since: 27th Nov 2001
Total posts: 1100
Posted:True, that.

Jesus helps me trick people.

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cutie poi girlie
member
Location: porthtowan, truro, cornwall
Member Since: 14th Sep 2001
Total posts: 237
Posted:*sigh* i guess we better stop arguing now...thats not what HoP is for...
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Luv peace 'n' chicken grease Al X x

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Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 15965
Posted:Er... the thread was dead, done and dusted 'til you dragged it out CPG honey. Everyone had declared peace and everything. Can a nice friendly moderator close this thread now please? Before it kicks off again....------------------C@ntusThere's only one way of life and that's your own.

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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Ajay
member
Location: Oxford, U.K.
Member Since: 3rd Dec 2001
Total posts: 158
Posted:what, before people start posting on it again?
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One fine day in the middle of the night,
Two dead men got up to fight,
Back to back they faced each other,
Drew there swords and Shot each other.

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