Forums > Social Chat > Should smoking be banned?

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pavement


member
Location: york, uk

Total posts: 121
Posted:The Royal College of Physicians and 17 other medical colleges have called for a ban on smoking in public places in the UK today. Do you think it should be banned? I am of the opinion that it should be banned in public places, as i dont think i should have to breath damaging smoke against my will. I dont think we should have an outright ban, just where it impacts on other peoples health. Whatcha think?

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pounce
SILVER Member since Jan 2003

pounce

All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all a...

Total posts: 9831
Posted:that was the best part about living in california...no smoking in public places. i forget sometimes when i go to a restaurant and they ask smoking or non. confuses the heck out of me!

I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

**giggles**

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:i agree with a ban *except* in (drinks only) bars and pubs.
continental style bistro's i think we should let off too wink

i went to canada (whistler) where it seems it is up to the owners of the establishment - it is very rare for a bar there to allow smoking inside nowdays.
having to go outside into sub-zero temperatures does have a couple of good points - one, you smoke less and two, you can smoke what you like because its outside and the smell lingers far less smile

...maybe its just a good idea all round ubbidea


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:It's actually one of the few things that the US is more responsible than Europe.

Every time I go out there I forget how smelly you all are. smile

Smoking is completely banned in New York City in all indoor public venues (even bars and night clubs)... I can't tell you how nice it is to go out dancing and be able to breathe and not come home smelling like smoke.

The total ban in New York is relatively recent. People were concerned that it would hurt the bars and restraunts but it hasn't.

I hope that the UK will follow suit. wink


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DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin, Ireland

Total posts: 2617
Posted:I say yes.

I'm a smoker and so are all my friends. We are all really happy that as of February you won't be able to smoke in any pubs in Ireland anymore (assuming they have the balls to go through with it).

We were discussing it and our reasoning is that every time any of us tries to quit we make it as far as the first time we're in the pub and fail miserably.

It'll be nice to have no choice but to break the association between drinking and smoking.

A large number of pub and and hotel owners have gone balistic worried about loss of business, especially along the Northern Ireland border becuase they believe people up north won't come across the border anymore cause of this law.

Hopefully in a generation our kids'll look back at us and call us stoopid smoking generation. Right all this talk of smoking as me hanging, I'm outta here... tongue


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13922
Posted:I have an issue with "bans."

First, I would support a ban on smoking in indoor public spaces. That includes bars, restaurants, airports, hospitals (ESPECIALLY hospitals), etc. I consider it to be a form of personal violation when someone else makes me come home from a bar or club stinking of smoke. It's gross.

Having said that, I see no reason to ban smoking outdoors (however, a strictly enforced ban on dropping cigarette butts would be fine).

I also think that if tobacco is banned outright, it will simply turn into the next crack cocaine. Banning drugs is not the solution to a drug problem. It just makes it worse.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Quote:

I also think that if tobacco is banned outright, it will simply turn into the next crack cocaine.



No you don't. biggrin I would disagree with you but I don't actually think you believe that. tongue


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Quote:
I also think that if tobacco is banned outright, it will simply turn into the next crack cocaine.



NYCs right, there's no way you believe that. smile


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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toxicwaste


toxicwaste

member
Location: bishops stortford, UK

Total posts: 12
Posted:NO NO NO NO NO! if they ban smoking then you will get pissed people out in the street smoking and lobbing pint glasses around, we have come this far without a smoking ban, why bother now? see the thing is i dont want to be told what i can and cant do, im my own boss, if smoking bothers you then go to a wetherspoons pub ffs!! "smoking can make you sterile....Good! theres too many people in the world anyway!" bill hicks



edit: *hits F5 and awaits the backlash* :P


digital vagrancy is the way to go

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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:i dont think smoking should be banned in public places, in bars and non public places, its up too who ever owns that place, but in public places
i think you should be able to do pretty much what you want, i dont like laws that control. so no i dont think smoking should be banned.
i can see various flaws in my argument, i cant really think of a good argument. i just know i dont like people telling me i can or cant do something,
so its the principle really.


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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flid
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002

flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3136
Posted:i think there should be a ban in public places in built up areas, but upto bar/club/restaurant owners, and not in open space like parks etc. There's nothing i hate more than coming home stinking of smoke after a night out, or sitting waiting for a train and then having to move because the person who comes and sits down next to me breathes smoke in my face. Not wanting to sound like a total tit, it's pretty antisocial doing something in a public place which negatively affects the health of other people. We should be able to choose to do what we want to ourselves, but when it starts affecting other people in a way they dislike then that sucks. Probably about half my friends smoke, if i'm getting a lift with someone who smokes then i don't mind if they do etc, but i think that many clubs/bars would ban it if they could do so and get away without loosing customers. I'm not anti smoking choice, i breath enough toxic fumes when spinning Firepoi as it is and wouldn't want to be told I can't do that anywhere in public, but out in a field or a park like clapham i don't see there being an issue.

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toxicwaste


toxicwaste

member
Location: bishops stortford, UK

Total posts: 12
Posted:i firebreate, i smoke, i spin almost every day, the fact is im going to die of cancer by the time im 40, thats what i choose to do. i think this all boils down to cancer treatment costs in the NHS, what about all the money the gov't spunks away on useless stuff like the 5million on having an american hillbilly come over here for a <s>vacation</s> holiday? leave us poor smokers alone to do what we want, and im NOT giving it up cos its part of my life, it doesnt cause any harm compared to what the corporate world does, me and my minions are merely small chimnies ill carry on smoking, it aint a crime! wink:P \/

digital vagrancy is the way to go

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pavement


member
Location: york, uk

Total posts: 121
Posted:Its fine if you want to die at 40, but you dont have the right kill somebody else with your smoke. Your free to do whatever you want as long as nobody else gets hurt!

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toxicwaste


toxicwaste

member
Location: bishops stortford, UK

Total posts: 12
Posted:i go to the pub most weekends, and some nights in the week, i go there, i have a few pints, and a few fags, i have done this for a few years now, why must it change now, its a way of life for many people that has been interupted, why cant the non smokers go sit in the pub garden? oh yes, because they get cold! but it doesnt matter about the smokers does it, who are paying more tax than the non smokers anyways and were born into a world of 'buy fags and look cool, they are great' sorry, but i will carry on smoking in my local, and im sure my landlord will find a way round this...

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pavement


member
Location: york, uk

Total posts: 121
Posted:Smokers pay more tax because they are a burden on the NHS. They go outside and smoke because they are the ones polluting the air, not the other way around.

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toxicwaste


toxicwaste

member
Location: bishops stortford, UK

Total posts: 12
Posted:its a pub, they have been smoked in for years, just look at the ceilings! like i said, if you want to goto a smokefree pub, goto a wetherspoons pub, both smokefree and cheaper drinks.

non smokers winge about smoke, but i dont see them winge when they talk on their mobile phones (cancer) breathe air in or around airports (cancer) or in particular SPIN FIRE (cancer) eat too much fibre (cancer)....there are hundreds of things that are bad for your health, why bother [trying] to outlaw one thing when you are going to be killed by one of them, just put up with it, even take up smoking, i dunno (what am i saying?) lol

iain


digital vagrancy is the way to go

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13922
Posted:Quote:
Quote:

I also think that if tobacco is banned outright, it will simply turn into the next crack cocaine.



No you don't. biggrin I would disagree with you but I don't actually think you believe that. tongue



I do believe it. It's incredibly addictive stuff. Amazing. I have seen patients who have had to have their larynx removed and now have a stoma that they breathe through in their neck.

And they're sticking that cigarette in that stoma.

Ban tobacco and people will still be addicted. People will still smoke. And there will be an illegal trade in cigarettes.

My solution? Ban tobacco companies from advertising. Period. Mandate generic markings on packs of cigarettes (no glitzy corporate logos). Tell Hollywood to stop portraying smoking in movies and on TV. Give federal subsidies for quitting aids and make all but Zyban (Wellbutrin) available over-the-counter to patients of all ages.

The way we're going to stop smoking is stopping teenagers from starting. If you don't smoke by age 18 in the U.S. there is a 95% chance you will never smoke. So the secret is to get people to age 18 without starting to smoke. The tobacco companies know this, too. Hence, they put up ads near high schools, try to get their products put in movies and TV shows that teenagers are likely to watch, and advertise in publications that they know teenagers are likely to read.

Now, one of you said that corporations are more evil than smokers. I agree. However, guess who makes that cigarette you're smoking? RJR Nabisco? Phillip-Morris? Even if you roll your own, it's likely you're still paying one of the giants (or one of their wholly-owned subsidiaries) for the tobacco. Cute, huh?


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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toxicwaste


toxicwaste

member
Location: bishops stortford, UK

Total posts: 12
Posted:well i started smoking when i was 13 cos it was 'cool' but i cant imagine not being a smoker these days, its such an integrated part of my life, i dont see it as cool, its just something i do, and i dont see why the society we live in should change what they have already put on me, nicotine generates money, but theres the namby pamby vegetarians on bicycles view that i shouldnt pollute their air...sorry? whos air? OUR air, why not go and harrass someone else about car emissions, airplane emissions, microwaves, radioactive material, UV rays, im sure that that contributes to a lot more illness than my piddly bit of smoke in a reasonably ventilated pub in which most people smoke anyway. i was sold the image of 'smoking is cool' by the world we live, in, therefore pay the consequences!

(hehe, i love a good argument!)


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woodnymph


woodnymph

member
Location: london,uk

Total posts: 313
Posted:i was going to bring up the issue of toxic car emissions etc...while we are on the subject of breathing but i'll just agree with what toxic waste said....banning things doesn't work........

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toxicwaste


toxicwaste

member
Location: bishops stortford, UK

Total posts: 12
Posted:coming soon to all bars near you: no drinking, no talking, no darts, no pool...fantastico! (NOT!)

thats all im saying, think ive got it covered!


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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:Do you know how hard it is to ventilate a pub to properly exchange all the air (containing huge amounts of smoke from everyone who smokes at pubs, hell theres some people who only smoke at pubs) so sufficiently that it's not hurting the health of others? not stinking up the room? It's quite the task, especially when you have to retrofit these fancy pants air exchanges to old buildings (You think it's easy doing that? Explain to me where you put the air intake so it doesn't suck in car exhaust or wood smoke, or the air output, or the stinky smokers standing outside the pub.

Or we could just ban smokeing, save the lives of bartenders and waiters/waitresses (look at the statistics, they are the ones that suffer more from your smokeing then anyone else, hope you enjoy destroying their health)

Face it, you have no right to trample the rights of others. In a prioritized list of personal rights do you honestly think A) the ability to go out in public without jeopardizing your health is more important then B) your right to enjoy the cheap nicotine buzz from a cigarette? Sorry but if you honestly think B) is greater then A) then your a very very sad individual. So grow up, and smoke your cigarettes outdoors where it doesn't hurt anyone.

And really I despise smokers who can't imagine their lifestyle without smokeing. Get an imagination, seriously.

Now we all know any plan to actually ban cigarettes will be shot down completly, what you smokers are going to have to face in the future is ever increasing taxes on cigarettes (for smokers resideing in any nation with "free" medical care, consider this like an insurance policy for the medical care you will receive when the statistics catch up with you)


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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:Wait, when you drink it actually beams alcohol into the systems of everyone in the building involuntarily? WOW

Oh yeah and pool and darts sure sends toxic fumes into the air killing everyone in the room!

News flash:This isn't a conspiracy against your lifestyle, it's a conspiracy agaisnt your lifestyle destroying other peoples LIVES.

As far as car emissions go, gradually emissions standards are being tightened up all over the world. Truely a car with a modern engine that's well tuned and regulary inpsected for emissions isn't that hard on your lungs. It's poorly tuned poorly maintained cars that put your lungs through hell.

Ofcourse you guys are so worried about loosing your convinient smokeing privledges it's probably hard for you to pay attention to
global enviromental policy trends.


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toxicwaste


toxicwaste

member
Location: bishops stortford, UK

Total posts: 12
Posted:nicotine is very addictive (see above) its not going to change anything, if you ban it, it just means more criminals, whcih means crimal records for smoking? im not sure that is exactly a crime seeing as its been done for hundreds of years, and noone has been convicted of it, and have you ever tried gettin a job when youve got a criminal record? it aint easy, which in turn means more unemployment, which also means more dole money paid by you (the taxpayer) just let us smoke in pubs ffs, i dont mind not smoking in the street, railway stations etc, but pubs and fags go together like cheese and pineapple my friend =)

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:I have a request to make.

Read my posts.

Or, Admit you read my posts and are just really stupid and have no reading comprehension.



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toxicwaste


toxicwaste

member
Location: bishops stortford, UK

Total posts: 12
Posted:do you spin fire astar?

digital vagrancy is the way to go

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Back to Lightning's comment (I'm not getting into the heatedness of the discussion after that for my own health)..

You crazy Lightning.... You get onto a bus driven by someone who has been smoking crack for the last two years and I'll get on a bus being driven by a guy that's smoked cigarettes for the last two years and we'll talk when we both get off the bus... smile

As for the other hypothetical arguements (If you ban smoking in pubs, smokers will kill babies)... I'm actually very surprised how quickly, quietly, and smoothly New York City adopted non-smoking ordinances. NYC was on par with any european city as far as smoking and it's stoped... without much of a whimper. I didn't believe it at first but it's true. I'm in the middle of barland in my hood and yes, people now hang outside the bar to have a cigarette and sometimes it gets loud BUT... it's COLD out! A factor that's going to be the saving grace... People go out.. have a quick cigarette (sorry, I simply can't say fag in that context) and then head back into the bar.

All the hypothetical arguements that y'all are thowing around were thrown around here (People won't go to bars, restraunts will go out of business, etc...) simply didn't happen.

There's an ad campaign that accompanied the change... it was talking about several other smoking bans and it goes something like this:

***
1945: "If you ban smoking on the Subway noone will ever ride again"
-It didn't happen then and it won't happen now

****

I assure you guys.... for all of your fears of banning smoking in public places. Bad things didn't happen in New York and it won't happen in your town.

smile

I even applaud Malcolm for taking the smoking smiley off the list.

And back to Mr. Lighting. I think that banning smoking in public places is a HUGE step towards your 'legal but unadvertised' utopia. I hope it cuts smoking at all ages.


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Yes, let's go.
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pounce
SILVER Member since Jan 2003

pounce

All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all a...

Total posts: 9831
Posted:Quote:
I assure you guys.... for all of your fears of banning smoking in public places. Bad things didn't happen in New York and it won't happen in your town.



didn't happen in california either. even the smokers embraced it.


I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

**giggles**

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:When I was a child smoking was permitted everywhere, I remember how much better the buses were when it was banned on them.

Now it's pretty much disallowed in most public buildings; my opinion is that it's good, regardless of the oft quoted references to 'civil liberties' infringements, my preference is for the rights of non smokers to breathe clean air.

I also think that the majority of smokers have no problem with the bans thus far; four years ago I was a smoker and having to leave the building to light up didn't bother me or any of the others who gathered at break times.

At present the only times I find myself subjected to the vile cloud that smokers produce is in pubs, not often as I don't go to pubs much, and part of the reason for that is the smoke.

I think, at the least, there should be non smoking and smoking pubs in the same proportions as smokers to non smokers; there would be practical problems in arranging this though, and I would be quite happy for a total ban in pubs.

Many claim that bans in general are futile, quoting failed ones like prohibition (and even with this, if looked into a little it is apparent that the main reason for its failure was the unbelievable level of corruption in the government departments responsible for enforcing it).

But the bans imposed up to now with smoking seem to have worked out quite well for everyone; it's good to anticipate a future where smoking is seen as a strange habit of the past, much as medicinal/cosmetic use of mercury is viewed today.

No disrespect to smokers, I have plenty of friends who smoke; but I think that most of them would prefer their children not to adopt the habit, and that's the same hope I have for future generations.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted:
Quote:

its a pub, they have been smoked in for years, just look at the ceilings!



Do you also advocate bringing the cane back to schools? People did that for years but finally got rid of it.
Do you campaign on behalf of those who want to go fox hunting anywhere and anytime they choose? That was done for years too and by your argument for smoking, we should still be doing it forever right?

Quote:
nicotine is very addictive (see above) its not going to change anything, if you ban it, it just means more criminals, *snip*



For a start, it'd mean that people wouldn't smoke in pubs, which would mean cleaner lungs, clothes and skin for me. Maybe I wouldn't have to limit my time in crowded pubs to two hours max because I can't see through the smoke induced tears streaming from my eyes.
I usually sit in the beer garden but in winter why should I have to get hypothermia just because people want to screw with my eyes and put me at even higher risk of cancer. We're already enough at risk from it as it is, I don't think we need any help.

Quote:
i dont mind not smoking in the street, railway stations etc, but pubs and fags go together like cheese and pineapple my friend =)


So your argument is that because you like to smoke when you're drinking that we should all suffer for it?
How about if I liked to poke people in the eyes when I was drinking? By your logic, I should be allowed to keep doing it whenever I chose.

I've not seen an argument to keep smoking allowed in pubs that makes sense, they all revolve around selfish people who don't care that every time they light up they're slowly killing the people around them.



But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:Yes I spin fire. Whats your point?

I don't spin in crowded spaces where people are forced to breath the fumes. Im sure I inahale a lot of the fumes myself because I am nearest to the ignition before they diffuse in the atmosphere, that's my own personal choice.

You just can't comprehend the idea of second hand smoke can you? No one's going to ban your cigarettes, but they will ban smokeing pubs because arrogant assholes like you have blatant disregard for others because "duh.... Ive always been doing it"


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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 3044
Posted:no, astar joined HoP because he likes cross stitch and embriodery. ubblol

"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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