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Posted:hey matty sure it's a style of dance...and a damn good one!
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CPG
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CPG
Luv peace 'n' chicken grease Al X x
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Posted:Kosmik Lunatic,I guess there are poi spinners and fire dancers. I respect both, but feel closer to teh second category.Some would say technical versus freestylers maybe ?But yes, yes ... one million times YES, it feels like dancing. It has actually even influenced my regular way of dancing without poi at parties ...Shine on Cassandra
"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"
Posted:I think you'll be hard-pressed to find someone who doesnt think it is a dance. (:------------------ [PLUR]-=Crazy Raver Dude=-
-=razyRaverude=-
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Posted:Well, CRD, concider yourself pressed hard.
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I don't concider it a style of dance at all, I concider it a skill which can be combined with dance, much the way tumbling, swords, snakes, bells, hats, etc are all individual skills but combined with dance they move onto a new level.Here is my reasoning, poi can be done without dancing. In fact, I can do poi while hardly moving my body at all, and it is still pretty damn cool to see. I can have my snake go all over my body without dancing, it looks neat. I can make rhythms with my bells. I can tumble. I can do a sword kada. Each one of these things is impressive on it's own and cool to watch for even a short time but none of them require dancing to feel the effect. Mix these with dance and the effect is then heightened.To me to determine something as a dance is like...Ballet, can you do it without dancing? Each move in and of itself can be recognised as Ballet moves. If I move my hips a certain way then you know I learned it Bellydancing change the motions and it is Salsa. If I step in a certain way it's Tap, but if I change it and it is Irish Step or Flamenco. Certain ways of movement are defined in each dance style from the classical to the modern hip-hop and re-defined breakdancing. I can watch someone dancing and know what style it cme from, even if they are doing a two step in sneakers and shoulder shimmies in sweaters. I can dance any of these (some not well) without the shoes or whatever is commonly associated with it and still have it be known what style I am doing. I can not "poi dance" without the poi and have someone go "Oh yeah, she's poi dancing." It looks like a strange and personal form of whatever dance I am moving from. And all moves we do in a club are derrived or influenced from some style of dance, so even those without traditional training will still be doing established moves, they simply don't know it. That is what defines and seperates the skills to me. Just like with dance styles there are common traits in poi styles as well. Speed, distance, movement, etc.... help to define these. If you watch a group of people who are together alot they tend to adapt similar (not the same) styles, just like with dance. Watch COL and you can tell who has had martial arts training, who has learned from videos and who is pushing it on their own. It is really interesting to see.I think you can combine poi with physical skills other than dance as well such as tumbling, precision walking (like tightrope/slack rope), stilts and unicycle. While not impossible, it is not dancing then either per se, but a different and wonderful combination of skills. I think mixing and matching skills is what allows us to each explore and develope our own styles and create individual visages of these arts.Just my humble opinion.
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------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com
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I don't concider it a style of dance at all, I concider it a skill which can be combined with dance, much the way tumbling, swords, snakes, bells, hats, etc are all individual skills but combined with dance they move onto a new level.Here is my reasoning, poi can be done without dancing. In fact, I can do poi while hardly moving my body at all, and it is still pretty damn cool to see. I can have my snake go all over my body without dancing, it looks neat. I can make rhythms with my bells. I can tumble. I can do a sword kada. Each one of these things is impressive on it's own and cool to watch for even a short time but none of them require dancing to feel the effect. Mix these with dance and the effect is then heightened.To me to determine something as a dance is like...Ballet, can you do it without dancing? Each move in and of itself can be recognised as Ballet moves. If I move my hips a certain way then you know I learned it Bellydancing change the motions and it is Salsa. If I step in a certain way it's Tap, but if I change it and it is Irish Step or Flamenco. Certain ways of movement are defined in each dance style from the classical to the modern hip-hop and re-defined breakdancing. I can watch someone dancing and know what style it cme from, even if they are doing a two step in sneakers and shoulder shimmies in sweaters. I can dance any of these (some not well) without the shoes or whatever is commonly associated with it and still have it be known what style I am doing. I can not "poi dance" without the poi and have someone go "Oh yeah, she's poi dancing." It looks like a strange and personal form of whatever dance I am moving from. And all moves we do in a club are derrived or influenced from some style of dance, so even those without traditional training will still be doing established moves, they simply don't know it. That is what defines and seperates the skills to me. Just like with dance styles there are common traits in poi styles as well. Speed, distance, movement, etc.... help to define these. If you watch a group of people who are together alot they tend to adapt similar (not the same) styles, just like with dance. Watch COL and you can tell who has had martial arts training, who has learned from videos and who is pushing it on their own. It is really interesting to see.I think you can combine poi with physical skills other than dance as well such as tumbling, precision walking (like tightrope/slack rope), stilts and unicycle. While not impossible, it is not dancing then either per se, but a different and wonderful combination of skills. I think mixing and matching skills is what allows us to each explore and develope our own styles and create individual visages of these arts.Just my humble opinion.
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------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
Posted:Poi = Dance, hence the name fire-dancing, problem solved.
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F_S ------------------Where there is sorrow I seek the Flame - Rumi
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F_S ------------------Where there is sorrow I seek the Flame - Rumi
Where there is sorrow I seek the Flame - Rumi
DeletePosted:Fire-Sista,As Pele so eloquently changed my mind on this topic, "Fire Dancing" would be dancing with fire of some sort. Whether it be fire fingers, fans, poi, torches, whatever. You can do poi without dancing, therefore it isnt a dance itself. You can play with fire without dancing, therefore it isnt a dance itself either. But there are all just opinions... (:------------------ [PLUR]-=Crazy Raver Dude=-
-=razyRaverude=-
DeleteCharles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001
![Charles]()
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Total posts: 3989
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Total posts: 3989
Posted:I agree CRD, but pushing the envelope a little further, it depnds on the person.I know of some poiers who CANNOT do poi without dancing as well. They may be able to if they thought really hard and kept focussed, but their style is a definite combination of dance and poi moves.For these people, their particular poi style can be loosely called dancing.For others, such as Pele, who can easily stay almost completely still and do poi, or can choose to dance and do poi, it depends on what style they adopt.So, strictly speaking,
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oi = dance: is incorrect however:somepoi styles = dance: is correct.This amy be where some people are getting confused, they are translating the way that they do poi, to mean the way that everyone else does poi. And if they are poi-dancers (more common than otherwise), then they will automatically disagree with the poi-spinners.When someone says poi, they mean anything to do with using poi, not necessarily just the style you are comparing it too.does this make sense to people??Or not???(All IMHO of course...)------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nz
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oi = dance: is incorrect however:somepoi styles = dance: is correct.This amy be where some people are getting confused, they are translating the way that they do poi, to mean the way that everyone else does poi. And if they are poi-dancers (more common than otherwise), then they will automatically disagree with the poi-spinners.When someone says poi, they mean anything to do with using poi, not necessarily just the style you are comparing it too.does this make sense to people??Or not???(All IMHO of course...)------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nz
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Posted:Poi, staff, etc, all seem to be a separate class of motion. I'd call it an art, yes, but I'd say that what it is about twirling in general that makes it what it is is closer to juggling than dancing. Clear as mud?That said, I've seen some really fantastic firedancers for whom their poi mostly seem to be a foil to their dancing, something to work with. The best firedancers are the ones who really are dancing, but not all twirlers are dancing.
Laugh while you can, monkey-boy
DeletePosted:In my opinion, dancing is not essentially for it to be considered poi. But that said, dancing makes poi a whole lot more interesting for me, since I'm a bit lacking on the technical side.I spin without dancing when there's no music, but if there is music around I try to incorporate it into what I'm doing. I just enjoy working with the rhythym.
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Posted:I think its pretty obvious that what 'Poi' is , is totally open to interpretation. Dance I think, is also quite open to interpretation.Capoeira is a good example of something that could be a dance, or a martial arts system or a combination of both etc etc. Its certainly not Ballet, but it is dancing. Its also a martial art. Its also been seriously re-interpreted by different teachers and schools all over the world.www.dictionary.com defines dance as;--dance (dns) v. danced, dancing, dances v. intr. 1.To move rhythmically usually to music, using prescribed or improvised steps and gestures. --I guess part of this is the music issue. Do you use or perceive music? cuz unless you dont, (and you dont move rythmically) you have a hard case to define what you are doing as *not* dancing.but really...we've been over this so many times.I dance (I think). I feel that there is a lot more skill involved in dancing well *and* twirling well, rather than just twirling on its own.Do you dance?whatever you do, be happy with what you are doing.Josh
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Posted:Actually, I had thought of Capoiera when writing my response, however, it is not traditionally a dance and Negro Gato (one of the World Authorities and trainers in Capoiera whom I was honored to meet and talk with at length a few years ago) cringed when people called it a martial art. His reasoning is when you say martial art you think Jackie Chan, Karate type things, which to him implied it derrived from Asia, and is everything that Capoiera is not. It is a form of combat which began because of the indigenous peoples believing that if you grow and nurture all things iwth your hands so if you destroyed something with your hands, then everything you sought to grow or nurture would be destroyed, so they fought with their feet. The dancing and rhythm aspects were later indoctrinated, as were use of staves and swords. This is a combination of a combative art where hands were used only as balancing points (and I truly feel they are arts) that met with tumbling and hard shoe dance moves into what it is now.Three fantastic skills which evolved into this fantastic art. Adding staves, swords or poi into it simply furthers it's evolution, like everything else, but it is still a very seperate skill.I like how Cass said about fire twirling and fire dancing but I think we all had to be fire twirlers before we could be dancers. I mean, who actually picked up the poi the first day they started and began just dancing? Or did you learn moves and then incorporate either them into your body rhythms or your body rhythms to them? Two great tastes that go great together!
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I agree Josh, it's all about the fun. ------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com
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I agree Josh, it's all about the fun. ------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
Insatiable fire-faerie (Angie)
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001
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Location: Dunoon, Argyll, Scotland,U.K
Total posts: 150
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001
member
Location: Dunoon, Argyll, Scotland,U.K
Total posts: 150
Posted:Oh Pleeeeeeeeease!!!Individuality!!!!!That is what it is all about.....if you get into the flow when you are twirling your poi then go with it!!!There are no hard and fast rules here, its what you feel comfortable doin that makes it individual and if that incorparates 'dance' then so be it!!!I, for the book cant pick up my poi without my whole body becoming fluid and ready to move n groove to the vibes!Angie xxooooo....Pele and Josh....Capoiera sounds really interesting, Id love to know more if you wanna share?
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Ok....Im gonna go and search...before Cantus jumps in
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[This message has been edited by Angie (edited 28 November 2001).]
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Ok....Im gonna go and search...before Cantus jumps in
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[This message has been edited by Angie (edited 28 November 2001).]
"You've got red on you!" Shaun of the Dead
DeletePosted:Its a dance.. definito.
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I mean.. at least to me it definitely is. I guess there are people who dont move their feet much, and only spin. But me.. the flow of the body in a flowing pattern is what makes it so enjoyable. <-- A dance is the same. Thats my theory anyways
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I mean.. at least to me it definitely is. I guess there are people who dont move their feet much, and only spin. But me.. the flow of the body in a flowing pattern is what makes it so enjoyable. <-- A dance is the same. Thats my theory anyways
May the fire of God burn its impression on your heart.
DeleteCantus
SILVER Member since Jul 2001
![Cantus]()
Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Total posts: 15965
SILVER Member since Jul 2001
Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Total posts: 15965
Posted:Actually Angie I wasn't going to bother. But thanks for thinking I might.
"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean
Posted:angie!Capoeira...is an Afro Brazilian art form..it is a powerful means of self defence, combining elements of dance, music, rituals, acrobatics and fighting..it was developed in Brazil over 400 years ago by African slaves who did not want to accept their slavery or lose sight of their freedom....so , they developed themselves a defencive art form (originating from their tradition) to protect themselves against their oppressors..they used to disguise Capoeira as a dance, with musical instruments and singing..Capoeira was prohibited with the abolition of slavery, but in the 1930's it was presented to the Brazilian government as a national sport by a man named Mastre Bimba.by adding a method of teaching(grading) and different elements incorperating other martial arts..it was accepted as a more open development of this art form...a distintion is now made between "regional style" created by Mastre Bimba and and "Angola"(which is slower, and a test of witsand knowledge, very graceful)the description of capoeira varies acording to how you wanna look at it...some see it as martial art, others as a dance...but for many it is a way of defining religion, cultural identity and a life philosophy...not purely physical art...combining the elements i wrote earlier capoeira shows unity of the body mind and spirit.Capoeira is practiced in a circle called a Roda(pronounced Ho-da)the circle is formed, music is played and everyone sings and claps while two people interact in teh centre...instruments used in the Roda are the "Berimbau", an Atabaque(drum) and a "Pandeiro" (tamborine)the Roda is the most exciting part of capoeira tho, the game requires forsight , intuition, ..during the game 'Capoeiristas' skillfully expose the limitations of their opponants and engage in playful attacks and counter attacks, enabling one to discover their personal power..it is like a subtle blend of gymnastics moves and dance making it pretty unique in the world of self defence...it strives to bring together a harmonious flow of balance and flexibility, the strength of dance, the speed and cunning of flight(lightness)and rhythm (of music)...the beauty of capoeira is that every player has their own style..lots it is like poi, we can know the moves really well, and incorperate rhythm and dance into it ...really i think it is up to the individual how far they want to take their fire dancing ...i know in the limited time i have been practicing capoeira i have come up with my own flowing style just as i did with poi...i think the main thing is to take it as far as we want, we only limit ourselves...and also have an acceptance and an understanding of others definitions of dance..Dreamer
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Posted:Yes is a dancing i dance it with trance yay! BTW"I think you'll be hard-pressed to find someone who doesnt think it is a dance"ohh thats one of my sister she think im playing or something... my other sister like it a lot tho lol
Dance like if noone were watching you
DeletePosted:You have spinning and you have dancing. They can co-exist within the same motions, or they can be separate...and one can switch from one to the other in the flash of a moment. me, personally...i can do staff just fine without dancing, but i'm hard-pressed to dance without something to work with.
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------------------"life begins between the night and the light."
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------------------"life begins between the night and the light."
life begins between the night and the light.
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Posted:offhand i woulda siad that yeah, of course its a dance form, however, Pele's first post just makes too much sense to be ignored, and im gonna have to agree with her...
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
DeletePosted:I'd say it is. i mean you're moving in a beautiful way, you need music to do it with all youre emotions, you look fantastic and quite sexy and you express a lot! so, isn't this what dancing is about? and swinging as well?
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Posted:back in the days the poi were used as weapons in their own right, but more commonly as training aids for increasing flexibility and coordination. one reason the maori were such skillful warriors was that from a young age all the kids were having fun dancing around and learning poi moves!. i guess if youre going to turn kids into hard little s.o.b's it has to be fun for them so they'll stick with it. today the traditional maori poi dances still retain some of the more martial elements, and in the past could probably have been considered analagous to karate's kata or something like that. i guess today it dosent really matter what poi were, so long as everyones groovin to their own rhythm and having fun. i use poi as weapons and have been on the recieving end of some pretty nasty situations as a result. but one thing i think most people will agree with is the importance of moving our feet when we do it. people ask me if i dance, and say thats what it looks like. i just try to walk through my stances top get the maximum economy of movement coupled with maximum power!any way blah blah blah its a sunday and ive got nothing else to do!!!
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Posted:When I poi, I consider it dancing. I like to dance while I poi, I'm no yo-yo spinner I tells ya now!
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------------------ ~*~ Katinca ~*~
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------------------ ~*~ Katinca ~*~
Love and Light
~*~ Katinca ~*~
Posted:I go with Pele, you can poi without dancing and dance while poing/ or staffing for that matter.Ive seen plenty of people poi without moving their bodies.
- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -
DeleteCantus
SILVER Member since Jul 2001
![Cantus]()
Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Total posts: 15965
SILVER Member since Jul 2001
Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Total posts: 15965
Posted:But you can't run a busy high street department store without staffing. No matter how many manequins you dot about the place. The public just aren't fooled.Take it from one who knows.
"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean
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