Forums > Social Chat > Eplanation on why the change
Login/Join to Participatestarring Skippy the green llama
1,148 posts
Location: Seattle, WA
1,148 posts
Location: Seattle, WA
Posted:
n this is any different from you getting technical with medical terms how?
Quote:
My god, and I thought I was a geek!
n this is any different from you getting technical with medical terms how?
First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica
" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
which excruciating death would you prefer? Death by a nasty infection of ASP or an acute case of SQL2000?
which excruciating death would you prefer? Death by a nasty infection of ASP or an acute case of SQL2000?
starring Skippy the green llama
1,148 posts
Location: Seattle, WA
1,148 posts
Location: Seattle, WA
Posted:
death by awk?
death by awk?
First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica
" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
oi! leave awk out of this!
oi! leave awk out of this!
starring Skippy the green llama
1,148 posts
Location: Seattle, WA
1,148 posts
Location: Seattle, WA
Posted:
it seemed the least painful
think I'm comin down wit a bad case of JCL on this current contract tho, hope it clears up
it seemed the least painful
think I'm comin down wit a bad case of JCL on this current contract tho, hope it clears up
First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica
" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
You should get some cream for it...
ask Mr. Lightning for some Chlorodextranonicegxcentricwankide.
You should get some cream for it...
ask Mr. Lightning for some Chlorodextranonicegxcentricwankide.
GOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
upgrade is yum yum thanks malcolm
(ps 1 more vote for asp-SQL2000 'nuff said)
upgrade is yum yum thanks malcolm
(ps 1 more vote for asp-SQL2000 'nuff said
) Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
the reason PHP is crap is cuz its written by a bunch of people who may or may not know what they are doing (yeah its wonderful you have 12 year old 'sys admins' contributing, but what do they know about programming anyhow? hacking doesnt take the cake unfortunately). When you have design by committee, you often get faults. Sure its made leaps and bounds (it used to be a joke, now its almost competitve), but its not yet strong enough to compete with the big $$$$ products for serious web apps.
Postgres is a far better choice in the free or cheap RDBMS market than MYSQL IMHO, not quite as quick, but far more robust and has Transactions (and the other stuff that I cant remmeber - but is equally important)
I'll still be learning Linux / PHP / Postgres when I get home, but thats just cuz I'm sick of MS operating systems.
ColdFusion and SQL2k for webapps is my combo of choice...not that I've written a single line of code in 1.5 years...but everyone else was chiming in so I thought I might too
Josh
the reason PHP is crap is cuz its written by a bunch of people who may or may not know what they are doing (yeah its wonderful you have 12 year old 'sys admins' contributing, but what do they know about programming anyhow? hacking doesnt take the cake unfortunately). When you have design by committee, you often get faults. Sure its made leaps and bounds (it used to be a joke, now its almost competitve), but its not yet strong enough to compete with the big $$$$ products for serious web apps.
Postgres is a far better choice in the free or cheap RDBMS market than MYSQL IMHO, not quite as quick, but far more robust and has Transactions (and the other stuff that I cant remmeber - but is equally important
)I'll still be learning Linux / PHP / Postgres when I get home, but thats just cuz I'm sick of MS operating systems.
ColdFusion and SQL2k for webapps is my combo of choice...not that I've written a single line of code in 1.5 years...but everyone else was chiming in so I thought I might too
Josh
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Posted:
ok. Less cionfused and less upset now.
May I tentatively ask if my either or thread is likely to coe back?
Also is there any way to get my old pm's into my new account?
All that switching between the two sounds a bit complicated for a simple fairy.
ok. Less cionfused and less upset now.
May I tentatively ask if my either or thread is likely to coe back?
Also is there any way to get my old pm's into my new account?
All that switching between the two sounds a bit complicated for a simple fairy.
Geologists do it in the dirt................ 
Lemon-Aware Devilstick-wielding Operative
605 posts
Location: East London Wilds
605 posts
Location: East London Wilds
Posted:
Explain to me how (with one SQL query (no stored procedure)) you sensibly get all messages in a thread, in (thread) order, such that you can display them threaded with minimal processing. For bonus points, the SQL query that can insert them to be able to do that.
Threading is recursive. SQL is not designed for recursive data structures, RDBMSs are terrible at storing and retrieving recursive data sensibly.
Explain to me how (with one SQL query (no stored procedure)) you sensibly get all messages in a thread, in (thread) order, such that you can display them threaded with minimal processing. For bonus points, the SQL query that can insert them to be able to do that.
Threading is recursive. SQL is not designed for recursive data structures, RDBMSs are terrible at storing and retrieving recursive data sensibly.
Luv 'n' Lemons
purity :: clarity :: balance
Lemon-Aware Devilstick-wielding Operative
605 posts
Location: East London Wilds
605 posts
Location: East London Wilds
Posted:
Coldfusion is even more scary than PHP for memory leaks and odd bugs. Again, it has the massive problem that it doesn't separate out code and content nearly enough, though the IDE stuff (somewhat) makes up for that.
I'll stop geeking soon, I promise.
Coldfusion is even more scary than PHP for memory leaks and odd bugs. Again, it has the massive problem that it doesn't separate out code and content nearly enough, though the IDE stuff (somewhat) makes up for that.
I'll stop geeking soon, I promise.
Luv 'n' Lemons
purity :: clarity :: balance
starring Skippy the green llama
1,148 posts
Location: Seattle, WA
1,148 posts
Location: Seattle, WA
Posted:
haven't forgotten about ya, work days are stretching out to 15-16 hrs now..Threading doesnt have to be recursive, and all db have the same structures to handle threading, theres no diff between mySQL or SQL2k or Oracle..
Tables
Forums - list of forum attributes(ie Social Discussion)
Posts - Top level thread of a post, just has user id, forum id, dattime stamp, etc
Replies - has all text replies to a post, initial post has the reply, contains the id of the post and the id of the reply that this reply is in response to(this is what you group by in your sql statement, for simplicity, you really only need the id that this reply is in response to, no recursion needed here)
sql statement would be somethin like
select * from replies where forum_id = 1 AND post_id = 1 group by reply_replyID order by date_posted desc
Wouldn't mind actually tryin this out, I've never coded threaded discussion boards eh
out
haven't forgotten about ya, work days are stretching out to 15-16 hrs now..Threading doesnt have to be recursive, and all db have the same structures to handle threading, theres no diff between mySQL or SQL2k or Oracle..
Tables
Forums - list of forum attributes(ie Social Discussion)
Posts - Top level thread of a post, just has user id, forum id, dattime stamp, etc
Replies - has all text replies to a post, initial post has the reply, contains the id of the post and the id of the reply that this reply is in response to(this is what you group by in your sql statement, for simplicity, you really only need the id that this reply is in response to, no recursion needed here)
sql statement would be somethin like
select * from replies where forum_id = 1 AND post_id = 1 group by reply_replyID order by date_posted desc
Wouldn't mind actually tryin this out, I've never coded threaded discussion boards eh
out
First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica
" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."
Lemon-Aware Devilstick-wielding Operative
605 posts
Location: East London Wilds
605 posts
Location: East London Wilds
Posted:
I think that at least some of the confusion stems from what I mean by "threading". What I am referring to is that each message is a reply to one or zero messages, such that the display shows messages in trees. Posting time on its own can't sort messages correctly for this kind of display. Threads diverge.
If you look at the history, you'll find that the unix rn command (standing for "read news") displayed messages in the way you describe, but the big innovation was trn which stood for "threaded read news", and used trees to indicate threads of conversation. This kind of threading must, by consequence be recursive, and thus can't easily be handled by SQL, which is, by nature, iterative.
My main problem in all of this is the tendency by large numbers of people to just use an SQL database for everything, without really understanding normalisation, data access, indexing, or search. In the case of a hierarchical database, such things exist (see also filesystems, LDAP etc), so it's not impossible to do.
As I recall, the way I had to do threading last time I tried to do it, was to get the data out in reverse order from where I wanted it, and reverse it in the code. I did it by putting all the magic at insert time, by shifting down everything below where I wanted to insert, using a sort_order column. I also had an indent_level, which would be based on 1 + (Parent's indent_level). This is painful in SQL.
I still don't like PHP, and I still detest Coldfusion (memory-leaks abound).
Oh well, back to insane routing....
I think that at least some of the confusion stems from what I mean by "threading". What I am referring to is that each message is a reply to one or zero messages, such that the display shows messages in trees. Posting time on its own can't sort messages correctly for this kind of display. Threads diverge.
If you look at the history, you'll find that the unix rn command (standing for "read news") displayed messages in the way you describe, but the big innovation was trn which stood for "threaded read news", and used trees to indicate threads of conversation. This kind of threading must, by consequence be recursive, and thus can't easily be handled by SQL, which is, by nature, iterative.
My main problem in all of this is the tendency by large numbers of people to just use an SQL database for everything, without really understanding normalisation, data access, indexing, or search. In the case of a hierarchical database, such things exist (see also filesystems, LDAP etc), so it's not impossible to do.
As I recall, the way I had to do threading last time I tried to do it, was to get the data out in reverse order from where I wanted it, and reverse it in the code. I did it by putting all the magic at insert time, by shifting down everything below where I wanted to insert, using a sort_order column. I also had an indent_level, which would be based on 1 + (Parent's indent_level). This is painful in SQL.
I still don't like PHP, and I still detest Coldfusion (memory-leaks abound).
Oh well, back to insane routing....
Luv 'n' Lemons
purity :: clarity :: balance
starring Skippy the green llama
1,148 posts
Location: Seattle, WA
1,148 posts
Location: Seattle, WA
Posted:
I knew whatcha mean..but think about it..each thread only needs a link to the thread that it's in response to, and the top level thread or in this case post, at least when pulling it from sql..displaying with the proper indentation is goin to be recursion, but on the front end side
SHAPE command in SQL is nice for doin just what we're talkin about..havin to use it now to build a dataset, convert it to xml, then use that to display/generate a treeview..
I knew whatcha mean..but think about it..each thread only needs a link to the thread that it's in response to, and the top level thread or in this case post, at least when pulling it from sql..displaying with the proper indentation is goin to be recursion, but on the front end side
SHAPE command in SQL is nice for doin just what we're talkin about..havin to use it now to build a dataset, convert it to xml, then use that to display/generate a treeview..
First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica
" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."
GOLD Member
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
its quite refreshing to read a thread where i have absolutely i idea what is going on....
overall, it looks fantastic.
it would be nice to be able to change my members status again, but im hardly going to lose sleep over it.
ask youself honestly... how often does everyone REALLY read through the previous 80 pages of either/or thread?
its quite refreshing to read a thread where i have absolutely i idea what is going on....
overall, it looks fantastic.
it would be nice to be able to change my members status again, but im hardly going to lose sleep over it.
ask youself honestly... how often does everyone REALLY read through the previous 80 pages of either/or thread?
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
SILVER Member
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
ummm I think its the etiquette of the whole thread thingo though Den... fluffy started it... It was the biggest standout thread on the whole of hop, and understandably she was proud of it... thats what I think anyhoo
ummm I think its the etiquette of the whole thread thingo though Den... fluffy started it... It was the biggest standout thread on the whole of hop, and understandably she was proud of it... thats what I think anyhoo
TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
I think the new board is starting to grow on me, but I would like to see the old either/or back, too.
Look, if it's not possible, it's not possible. We'll manage. We always do. This board has held together through thick and thin and through all sorts of member turnover and everything. I think we can keep it together here.
I think the new board is starting to grow on me, but I would like to see the old either/or back, too.
Look, if it's not possible, it's not possible. We'll manage. We always do. This board has held together through thick and thin and through all sorts of member turnover and everything. I think we can keep it together here.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
i'm all for the lack of either/or
, but does malcolm not have a backup? Can we not qrite the sql for him? I've looked at the code for the new board and it shouldn't be too hard to figure out.
The new board is growing on me too, but i dislike on the main page the fact that when you hover the mouse over truncated subject titles it no longer shows a box with the full title in and the fact that PMs arn't threaded anymore.
i'm all for the lack of either/or
, but does malcolm not have a backup? Can we not qrite the sql for him? I've looked at the code for the new board and it shouldn't be too hard to figure out.The new board is growing on me too, but i dislike on the main page the fact that when you hover the mouse over truncated subject titles it no longer shows a box with the full title in and the fact that PMs arn't threaded anymore.
SILVER Member
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
Posted:
i miss having the PMs threaded. and i think it's a bummer that the old either/or isn't on the old board now either. but fluffy has now been given her rightful credit to the game, thankfully yay Pele! thanks again!
i miss having the PMs threaded. and i think it's a bummer that the old either/or isn't on the old board now either. but fluffy has now been given her rightful credit to the game, thankfully
yay Pele! thanks again! I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
**giggles**
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
PMs will be grouped by user shortly. Unfortunately I've got really busy for a few days so I'm not doing anything more till the weekend.
flid - Tis not a simple SQL command. It's flat text files (for each thread) importing into a db. As all things like post number, username, etc... changed during the move doing a selective move now would be a nightmare, and redoing the full move after the site had been running for a few days was out the question. Instead we're going to look forward and do things like implement an integrated and better image gallery.
Nothing has been lost. Old threads are archived and intros and games have been restarted with vigour.
PMs will be grouped by user shortly. Unfortunately I've got really busy for a few days so I'm not doing anything more till the weekend.
flid - Tis not a simple SQL command. It's flat text files (for each thread) importing into a db. As all things like post number, username, etc... changed during the move doing a selective move now would be a nightmare, and redoing the full move after the site had been running for a few days was out the question. Instead we're going to look forward and do things like implement an integrated and better image gallery.
Nothing has been lost. Old threads are archived and intros and games have been restarted with vigour.
SILVER Member
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
Posted:
oh awesome. i didn't even think about that coming back. so cool that it is. so would it be possible to have folders for our PMs? i do have to say i miss the fact that when you got a PM and had the email option checked, it would actually send you the content of the PM in the email. it let me save them all on my computer without cluttering up my PM folder. would that be a possibility to come back? thanks for all the hard work tho! definately take the week off!!!
Quote:
PMs will be grouped by user shortly. Unfortunately I've got really busy for a few days so I'm not doing anything more till the weekend.
oh awesome. i didn't even think about that coming back. so cool that it is. so would it be possible to have folders for our PMs? i do have to say i miss the fact that when you got a PM and had the email option checked, it would actually send you the content of the PM in the email. it let me save them all on my computer without cluttering up my PM folder. would that be a possibility to come back? thanks for all the hard work tho! definately take the week off!!!
I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
**giggles**
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Posted:
hey Pounce, when I get a PM notice via e-mail, the content is in it...Did it get fixed so quick? Yay Dom
hey Pounce, when I get a PM notice via e-mail, the content is in it...Did it get fixed so quick? Yay Dom
SILVER Member
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
Posted:
oh really? sweet. i'll have to change my settings again. thanks!
oh really? sweet. i'll have to change my settings again. thanks!
I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
**giggles**
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
Evening all.
There's a few changes that people might like to know about.
The big one that a lot of people have asked for: Users with over 100 posts now have the ability to change their 'member' title.
It seems that most people are using the old skool HoP look for the board, but I'd like to point out that you can change to one of a small selection of stylesheets in your profile. There's even a little preview button now that'll allow you to see what they all look like before you choose one.
Searching by user number is now part of the Search page again. A user's number appears under their name when they post.
There's an icon in people's posts that lets you PM them easily from the post.
Evening all.
There's a few changes that people might like to know about.
The big one that a lot of people have asked for: Users with over 100 posts now have the ability to change their 'member' title.
It seems that most people are using the old skool HoP look for the board, but I'd like to point out that you can change to one of a small selection of stylesheets in your profile. There's even a little preview button now that'll allow you to see what they all look like before you choose one.
Searching by user number is now part of the Search page again. A user's number appears under their name when they post.
There's an icon in people's posts that lets you PM them easily from the post.
Lemon-Aware Devilstick-wielding Operative
605 posts
Location: East London Wilds
605 posts
Location: East London Wilds
Posted:
Nice one.
Nice one.
Luv 'n' Lemons
purity :: clarity :: balance
SILVER Member
veteran
1,389 posts
Location: Guelph, ON, Canada
veteran
1,389 posts
Location: Guelph, ON, Canada
Posted:
SCORE! Look who just got her 100 post!!! *points to herself*
~ Bobo
SCORE! Look who just got her 100 post!!! *points to herself*
~ Bobo
wie weit, wie weit noch?
fragst mich, wo wir gewesen sind...
du fehlst hier
SILVER Member
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
Posted:
OMG
rushes off to change her member status
OMG
rushes off to change her member status
I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
**giggles**
I don't want a title.
940 posts
940 posts
Posted:
My avatar suddenly looks fuzzier ::rubs her eyes:: Are they being stretched bigger or something?
And, thanks for making member status malleable.
My avatar suddenly looks fuzzier ::rubs her eyes:: Are they being stretched bigger or something?
And, thanks for making member status malleable.
E pluribus unum, baby.
SILVER Member
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
Posted:
ok, is it just me or does my avatar now look kinda stretched out?
ok, is it just me or does my avatar now look kinda stretched out?
I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
**giggles**
SILVER Member
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
Posted:
haha, i just noticed the same thing. ok i don't feel so alone in this.
haha, i just noticed the same thing. ok i don't feel so alone in this.
I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
**giggles**
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