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Ignis Devoco
member
Location: Prato, Italy
Member Since: 14th Dec 2000
Total posts: 67
Posted:How often do you change your wick when it's kevlar?I use kevlar poi and I have burned them quite a few times, when do you know it's time to quit? Does kevlar burn forever?I have it on my fans and fingers as well. How do you make them last longer?Donia"Where there is fire, I seek the Flame."Rumi

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Thistle
Thistle

old hand
Location: Nottingham UK
Member Since: 27th Jan 2001
Total posts: 950
Posted:I've had a set of kevlar wicks that I've been using for 18 months on a (very) regular basis and they are still going strong although they are starting to get a bit frayed on the edges. I always dip my wicks as soon as they go out to prevent them cooking whether I am going to light them again or not.When I used to make poi by wrapping wick around a centre bit of ally pole & I dismantled them to make new concertina style wicks, the wick in the middle was like brand new thus implying that I was not using my wicks to their full potential. Hope this helps.kind regards, Thistle firepixie. :-)

Are we nearly there yet?

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nomad
nomad

retired
Location: Paris, France
Member Since: 15th Jan 2001
Total posts: 356
Posted:I just got a set of fire poi from this site with kevlar wicks. I only used them 4-5 times (every time with Coleman fuel) and it seems like they burn very little. Last night, i could only spin for 1-2 minutes at a time before they went off. How do you guys take care of the Kevlar wicks? Any tips for longer burning time?

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:I never actually thought about how long it's been I just replace them. Maybe I'll start marking the dates in my logue book to keep track. I do everything else
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As for longer burns and full use of poi..try soaking them longer in fuel. I actually have this old coffee tin that I store the wicks in (I trade wicks in the middle of my show) and I store them in this in fuel. It keeps them good and soaked. Unfortunately this can't be done with staves. You could also try other fuels. Lamp oil, Kero, I know people use something called ShellSol-T. To keep from fraying I coat the area where the wick ends and is folded over as well as the tops and bottoms of the wrapped wick with white school glue. It is non-toxic and cures (hardens) in heat so it really protects them against fraying even over time and use. We do it for all our wicks.Have a happy day!
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------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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adamrice
adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA
Member Since: 19th Dec 2000
Total posts: 1015
Posted:Coleman gas gives a short burn. I just did some testing and discovered this. Try kerosene (or lamp oil, basically the same thing), which will give you a much longer burn time. Check outwww.fire-gear.com/testing.html

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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nomad
nomad

retired
Location: Paris, France
Member Since: 15th Jan 2001
Total posts: 356
Posted:This might be the dumbest question of the day but knowing nothing about chemicals, i gotta ask.... is it possible to mix coleman fuel and lamp gas? Doesn't lamp gas smoke and stink like kerosene?

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Heph
Heph

member
Location: Chicago, IL
Member Since: 13th Dec 2000
Total posts: 79
Posted:hey ignis,do you know a spinner in chicago named Erin? i was supposed to hook up with her over Xmas break and spin, but we never got it together. i thought i remember her saying something about a friend from Seattle who might be coming in too. is that you? did you guys ever hook up? i lost her email, so we've been out of contact.....just curious...-heph

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crispyx
member
Location: Denver, Co.
Member Since: 28th Dec 2000
Total posts: 53
Posted:Yes you can mix lamp oil or kerosene with Coleman, around here it seems most people either go 50/50 or 3/4 Colman 1/4 lamp oil. It will smoke more but not nearly as bad as without the coleman and burns longer. You can normally get smokless or ultra pure Lamp oil and it doesn't smoke much but the spin off is really slick and hard to clean.

How is it ever possible to feel safe and secure in a world in which everyone dies?

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Rick aka Loki
Rick aka Loki

member
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Member Since: 18th Dec 2000
Total posts: 134
Posted:Yeah, and lamp oil is hard to light, due to the higher flash point. If it's windy, it can be a real pain in the ass. One IMPORTANT note about lamp oil: If you've ever spun in the rain, you've probably seen that it's doable, especially if you use towel wicks. I was busking once on a night when it was just barely drizzling, and was using 50/50 lamp oil/coleman's. The layer of drippage from the oily fuel combined with the layer of moisture on top of the brick-like surface I was on made it hella hard to get a grip. I imagine any fuel could do this, but lamp oil seems to be the worst. Kero on pavement in the Rain has been just fine. Go figure.Peace, Love, and Fire.-Rick

-Rick aka Loki
oh, man, a signature?... uuh... this is like coming across wet cement... uuh, shoot, I had something clever I was saving... I hope I don't run out of sp

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Ignis Devoco
member
Location: Prato, Italy
Member Since: 14th Dec 2000
Total posts: 67
Posted:Haephestos (I hope I spelled that right)it wasn't me.Thank you to every on ewho commented, this is some really good feed back.

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Last night in fact Prometheus and I decided to just start playing with fuels. This is what we came up with...all fuels can be mixed but some settle into layers so you have to mix/stir them. Other than that, if anyone has anything to add, I am glad to hear it.Coleman/White Gas: somewhat smokey, almost a soap like taste, lingering smell to the air, neither of us breathe with it for fear of blowbacks, so I can't accurately comment on that. Wonderful ignition with a moderate burn length. An orangey-yellow flame, great for night.Kerosene: Tastes like Moonshine but aspirates well without fear of blowback. Quick ignite, short burn. IMHO it is only worth it for breathing, not for poi, staff or other toy. Smokey and residuey. Slows down in cold weather (Shorter burn, harder to create a strong blow). More of a deep orange flame.Lamp/Candle Oil: Little taste, good aspiration, slight risk of blowback. Long burns, though a touch stinky/smokey. Slow to ignite..has a "creeping" flame. Great for inclimate weather. Has a more reddish flame than anything.I like the lamp oil/coleman for the toys. I use it in and out of doors. I still use Kero for blows. There are many arguements for and against each fuel and it really comes down to personal preference.What we did to test them was make simple torches out of coat hangers, gauze and glue. Then we soaked torches in each fuel equal amounts of time (20 minutes to make certain they are soaked through) and we lit them and catalogued our findings. We did a very similar thing with fabric swatches when we first started...we gathered scraps of all kinds of material and set them on fire and logged how they burned. This is how we decided to create our costumes.We also did this with several different kinds of wicking materials to find what we could use in a pinch versus what just didn't work at all.Sensible experimentation and writing down your findings goes a long way.Hope this adds something.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...[This message has been edited by Pele (edited 31 January 2001).]

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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adamrice
adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA
Member Since: 19th Dec 2000
Total posts: 1015
Posted:Pele--Your results are interesting because they are pretty much the opposite of mine: I found Coleman gas gives a shorter burn than kerosene, though I agree kerosene is dirtier and more stubborn about lighting. Not sure how to reconcile that. I haven't tested with lamp oil yet--I had assumed it would be basically the same as kersone.Time for more testing, I think. My test rig is really looking beat-up.------------------Adam Rice :: www.fire-gear.com

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Adam...what do you test on?We always use fresh wicks. That way we get pure results. Now I am intrigued.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Posted:From my meager experience...White gas has the quickest light and shortest burn. Cleanest burning. Very low flash point, definitely *not* what I'd use for blowing. Lamp oil has a longer burn but a slower light up. Somewhere between white gas and kerosene on the clean burning spectrum. Higher flash point, good for blowing. Kerosene has the longest burn time and somewnere between lamp oil and white gas as far as ease of lighting. Most smelly, smoky and leaves most residue on tools. I'm biased on the stinky, sooty kero bit. I've never blown with it. A mix can make a good happy medium. I like soaking tools in lamp oil first and dipping them quickly in white gas at the end. That way I get the most of lamp oil's longer spin time, I get the white gas easy light and no kero stink and soot. Lamp oil and white gas will separate, but if you do the sequential dipping thing the white gas will be on the outside for the easy light. For indoor performance I use white gas alone for the cleanest burn. If I want a longer burn on white gas, I add more wick. Thanks Pele for stepping into the lab for us. It's good to see observations done methodically. You're right, it does boil down to personal preference. Though I'd think you're whacked if you blow with white gas.
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Diana


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adamrice
adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA
Member Since: 19th Dec 2000
Total posts: 1015
Posted:Pele--I did two rounds of testing (so far) using two pairs of wicks connected to an old bike wheel mounted on a stand--this allows me to test several wicks at the same time and avoid any differences in twirling speed that might change the results. I started with new wicks (though they obviously weren't new by round 2). I posted my results at http://www.fire-gear.com/testing.html


Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Adam, I just got done talking to a friend who is a Ren Magician and fire eater. He travels all over the Canada and the U.S.We discussed the differences you and I got in our findings and he had these insights and thoughts to add....Climate Temperature. We are located in the Northeat US where it is cold, I know this effects Kero (the colder it is the shorter it burns and the harder it is to light). So far I haven't noticed a difference in Coleman or Lamp Oil. Altitude. The higher up the shorter the burn. ALthough I know we aren't very high above sea level here, I just thought it might be worth mentioning.He says that there is a real difference in where you purchase them. He said Coleman down south taste different than up here (he uses it on torches, not to breathe with Di!
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). I don't know why this is but I have heard it from other performers as well.I also want to mention I don't spin when I test the fuels. I let them burn on the torch in a natural course, simply because to me, while the fuels I spin with are important, I can do an effective spin with any of the three mentioned fuels, but to have them on the torches going into my mouth or to aspirate them is a different story. In the end the more testing and work I do the more away from Kero I get, though I am still the most comfortable with it for blowing as I have heard and know horror stories about the lamp oil that is smokeless and odorless, and I fear I'll get the wrong one (though I am paranoid so prolly not
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).This brings me to my questions....does anyone who deals with lamp oil use the ones that have the coloring in them and does the color effect the burn?Also, what are you finding are the shelf lives to fuel? I have yet to have one go bad but I was wondering if they fade in effectiveness over the course of time, or through exposure to temperature changes and such things.Thanks to all, this has been very insightful.Adam, I am going to see what you came up with!!! Thanks for jumping in the lab with me
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------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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ykaterina
member
Location: east randolph, VT USA
Member Since: 16th Jan 2001
Total posts: 107
Posted:well, for cold: we're in vermont, and use kero for practice and lamp oil for...well, swanker-than-practice (cause it costs more). last weekend i got about 10 spinning minutes off a kero/cotton wick that wasn't just dunked, and it was mid-20s farenheit (somewhat below freezing). my "teacher" claims 5 minutes is the best he can reliably get with the lamp oil, but it smells so much better that it's worth it. i've watched him perform and i'll tell ya i think he went longer than that; again at 25 or so degreesF. incidentally, we accidentally let the lamp oil freeze a coupla weeks ago, but were {prolly stupidly} impatient, and soaked poi in it as soon as there was anything thawed enough to pour (sat next to a campfire. yep, i said stupid). didn't seem to make any difference at all. the whole thing did eventually thaw and seems just fine.

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Charly
member
Location: Seattle, Washington, USA
Member Since: 25th Jan 2001
Total posts: 68
Posted:Hey Pele,We once drove 3 hours to a performance then realized we had forgotten our lamp oil (we had all our other fuels...). So we ran to a drugstore and picked up what they had - RED lamp oil.It seemed to work exactly the same, but I don't know if the true chemical composition is different.Wouldn't it be funny to get strawberry-scented lamp oil? Then all your fire performances could smell lovely...!No, seriously, I don't think the scenty, froufy lamp oil would be good to use. The regular lamp oil dyed red seemed to be fine when we used it.~*Charly*~------------------www.cabiri.org

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Finn
member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 23rd Dec 2000
Total posts: 341
Posted:Love the wheel of fire Adam!Great pics.
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spryte
member
Location: Canada
Member Since: 2nd Feb 2001
Total posts: 45
Posted:I JUST started twirling with Fire I've used Parrafin and Kerosene and Kerosene Based Lamp Oil(Sented Rose). The Parrafin was VERY DIFFICULT to light It lasted about 2 min. Longer than the Kerosene and had A great "flash" but its brightness didn't last long The Kerosene lit easy and had a bigger flame not as bright but didn't dim down as fast. I also got Rose sented kerosene from a dollar store. It doesn't smoke it lasted about as long as the Parrifin it had the brightness of the kerosene and it's flame was HUGE, to big for me to feel comfortable with,( for being a beginner ) it came the full 24 inches up my poi and got my gloves. Oh and it had no smell of Kerosene at all as I mentioned it was rose. I had some complements of my smell from some friends. I have a feeling as soon as I get use to the size of it's Flame It will be my Favourite.

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smitty
member
Location: Brisbane QLD Australia
Member Since: 22nd Jan 2001
Total posts: 104
Posted:the rose kero, does it cost more or is it the same price as normal kero?and what dollar store was it? cause i only found kero at crazy clarks and mitre10, although i havent realy been searchn much

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