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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Someone printed off this email, I kinda liked it. Ohh and if you see any errors, they are my fault, I couldnt copy and paste this it was typed haha that took a few minutes.

"On my way to work last week, I stopped behind a purple Geo Metro with my least favorite bumper sticker ever plasterd across the back. It read: "It'll be a great day when the shcools have all the money they need and the Air Force has to have a bake sale to buy a bomber."

At that moment, I realized who the most udervalued and under-appreciated segment of societ is. And it ain't the teachers. Teachers, I believe, rank second on that list. Heading the list are the men and women of the armed forces, who, thought history, have protected our cournty from the Hihtlers and Stalin's-then who would have had our white children marching to the school bus in jackboots and our minority children locked up in laboratories and labor camps.

The U.S. military--the most powerful and influential group of people in the world, hands-down--gets an awfully bad rap these days. Many Americans seem to think that simply because the communist Soviet Union no longer exists, the world is as safe as Beaver Cleaver's neighborhood. This, of course, ignores three facts:

1) Dozens of countries have nuclear weapons that could take out millions of people with the turn of a key

2) Leaders of several countries (e.g. North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Lebanon and perhpas China and Russia) would love to see the U.S. and its people blown to pieces.

3) The U.S. has the greates collection of human, economic, natural and technological resources anywhere on Earth, making it the greates natural target for military agression. Though some would like to fashion the U.S. of the 21st Century as a flowery feel-good fantasy where war and violence are mere after thoughts of a time gone by, that can never be the case. As bad as our crime and drug problems are we're still considerd the jewel of the planet by the half of the world that has yet to make its first phone call.

In ancient Greece, the people of Athens were unparalleled world leaders in art, philosophy and technology. Their rivals in Sparta were not; instead, the Spartans built massive, well-trained armies. When the two countries fought, who won? Sparta. And guess who lost their entire civilization because they didn't think it was important to build an appropriate amry? Athens! Right now, the U.S. has the best of Athens and Sparta: we are the most cultured and most well-defended country in the world. As we continue to lower our defenses by devaluing the military we open ourselves wider and wider to a takeover. A takeover of the U.S.?

Ridiculous, one might say. But why does it seem so unlikely? Because the power and protection of the U.S. military has been so overwhelming in the last century that Americans have been free to enjoy a comfort level unlike any in the world. We all take it for granted that we will never be invaded by another counrty, but foew other countries can afford to be so sure of themselves. It's not only Americans who can go to bed feeling safe.

Children everywhere from Israel to England, from Brazil to Japan know that, if their country is attacked, the U.S. will be there to hoelp. On TV, the military is often represented by stiff, buttoned-down generals or the occasional drill sergeant who is accused of feeling up a female recruit. In reality, things are much different. The men and women of the armed forces, are in most ways, just like everyone else: they are mechanics, pilots, cooks, photographers, engineers, secretaries and X-ray technicians. They work form 6 to 5 and then come home to their families. The one difference comes when the U.S. or any of its allies is threatened by a foreign power. In that case, military people pack up and ship out, off to fight -- and many times die -- so the rest of the country, including teachers, can continue their lives without interruption.

Teachers mold young minds into intelligent, independent people, and they should be admired for the job they do; however, I don't know any teachers who are required to catch bullets and swallow shrapnel if so ordered by the principal. So, old-fashioned as it may seem, I'm happy to give my taxes to the military and tell the tots and teachers to fire up any oven if they want extra dough. Make muffins, cookies and candy and be happy you're allowed to. Because, as the old saying goes, if it wasn't for the U.S. military, we'd all be speakin' German now."


"It is easy to take liverty for granted, when you have never had it taken from you."

--Dick Cheney


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:hehe if it wasn't for the us we would all be speaking german. Where the hell did you hear that ray? Oh yeah an american shool, sorry.

You do realize that the allies waited untill germany started loseing to the russians right?

The russians laid more soldiers on the line and destroyed more german equipment, killed more soldiers and spent more money and resources then anyone else in the war.

Secondly who the hell cares about anything that happened then. How many administrations went in and out of the whitehouse between then and now? How many massive social and cultural, economical changes happened in america and all over the world? ITS NOT THE SAME WORLD ANYMORE. STOP LIVING IN THE PAST.

[ 04. November 2003, 11:11: Message edited by: Astar ]


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Ade
SILVER Member since Mar 2001

Are we there yet?
Location: australia

Total posts: 1897
Posted:quote: "It'll be a great day when the shcools have all the money they need and the Air Force has to have a bake sale to buy a bomber."
the alleged email is, from my point of view, coming from the wrong angle:

it assumes the world needs the US military

ba humbug, what a load of dungbeetle droppings


why not take the risk for peace?

why not assume that teaching our kids to be citizens that contribute to the world in a positive way is more important than building or flying a machine that can drop nuclear bombs in defence of lines drawn on a map?

give me an answer to that question ray, because I have far more respect for teachers who want to make citizens who can shape the world around them than those in the military that make bombs to blow people up or use guns to kill people

give teachers more money
give hospitals more money
give retired people and their accommodation services more money
put more money into peace research
put more money into building homes for all persons of the earth
put more money into finding food solutions for those less fortunate

give the military less

[ 06. November 2003, 16:22: Message edited by: Ade ]


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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:The concept of having a giant standing army only makes sense if there is a giant standing army that you are likely to have to defend yourself from (Which there isn't)

I find it funny how people who advocate americas stupidly oversized army by makeing references to ww2. ww2 was fought entirely with normally non-standing armies. They were armies raised in response to aggresion.

The "wrong" of ww2 was seeing germany raise an army (it was no secret they were doing this) and us not raising an army to match theirs and waiting untill they grew to be such a big country that they could threaten the worlds forces.

Im pretty nervous about chinas place in world affairs, they could very easily start expanding all over asia, They can't invade america though. Not with their current state. It is completly impossible for them to mobilize before NATO and the UN can respond.

What we really need is a super-project the world can unite on. The more money that's infested into something the less likely people are going to go to war and throw that money away. The space station hardly qualifies as a super project. Why don't we get together and brainstorm a way to build a tower/elevator to the space station or a serious plan to begin terraforming mars.

You can't spend ALL your money on education because educated men still go to war. They both cause, lead and fight wars.


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Raphael96
SILVER Member since Sep 2002

old hand
Location: New York City, USA

Total posts: 899
Posted:World Peace is a great ideal, but I'm not sure that its possible for humans to get to that place.

Human history is based upon warfare. Even in our antiseptic modern lives, competitive sports and business practices like "hostile takeovers" demonstrate only the replacements for more violent kinds of interaction.

Even though the goal is noble indeed, it would be tough to change human nature which now is based upon thousands of years of evolution and history.

Raph


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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:I disagree. I think the problem is most of the people pursueing world peace have this picture of ultimate world peace where everything is perfect.

I think that's unreachable, atleast for a long time. But it really seems to me we are doing a pretty poor ass job trying to get more world peace then we already have. Really the biggest problem with world peace right now is a bunch of developing nations who are makeing the same mistakes that well developed nations have made in the past. THey have bigger more terrible weapons then we did but they are doing the same thing. And ofcourse us "developed nations" are still being violent and whatnot but when I look back into history over the big picture of the human existance on earth there is progress, and that progress will continue to be made. I see no reason why it won't be. We don't see it in our lifetime because even though change is happening so much faster now then it used to, it is really still to slow for us to have a very good perception of it.

I also think it's very arrogant to think you can define what human nature is.


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Raphael96
SILVER Member since Sep 2002

old hand
Location: New York City, USA

Total posts: 899
Posted:I have been called worse things than arrogant, so I'm not troubled by it.

Of course, a key part of knowing how to argue is keeping the focus on the argument rather than taking personal pot-shots at the arguer.

When you look back over history, you see that it moves from battle to battle, conflict to conflict. There HAVE certainly been times of peace, but they are few and far between when compared Man's biggest occupation: Warfare.

The Sumerians, Babylonians, Greeks, Parthians, Macedonians, Byzantines, Romans, Goths, Huns, Mongols are all best known for the wars and conquests they fought up through the Dark Ages.

The Middle Ages showed little slowing down of this trend as the forming countries struggled against each other.
Battle of Hastings in 1066, as any schoolkid studying European history can tell you.
Do as many people know the year that Leonardo painted the Mona Lisa? I doubt it.

Wars of religion, wars for political or monetary gain, the list goes on and on up until the current day, with the victors from each conflict writing the histories of those conflicts.

The classic example of the Romans throwing Christians to the lions and torturing them for their religion is a vivid image Hollywood loves to portray. What is not understood is that when the Christians came into power in the Roman Empire, they killed off far more Pagans than when they had been the underdogs.

The current conflicts in the Middle East can be traced back to the Crusades when unwanted European forces stomped around the region like bulls in a china shop.

The interpretation could be argued against, but the facts certainly cannot.

What Man has done to the environment is nothing compared with what Man has done to itself.

Raph


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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:Heh do you honestly think the problems in the middle east have anything to do with the crusades? You think people are going to sacrifice their own lives and the lives of others over things that happened those many years ago? They can't remember anything that happened in the crusades, they heard all kinds of stories and read some history books but they never experienced it, they may have a grudges from it but I really don't think it's plausible that those grudges are the cause of the conflict.

People fight over things that have happened NOW or two or three generations ago. The problems in the middle east are mostly the result of the last century, not the crusades.


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Raphael96
SILVER Member since Sep 2002

old hand
Location: New York City, USA

Total posts: 899
Posted:I think its pretty obvious that the recent cold reception the American forces have gotten in the Middle East is directly related to what went on during the Crusades.
People have a much longer memory than you give them credit for.
As of the filming of the BBC documentary on the Crusades (1995), when the story of the massacre of the Templar forces at the Horns of Hattin is retold in tea houses in the "Holy Land" it is met by exclamations of approval and pride.

You asked if I thought that people would sacrifice their lives for things that happened so long ago. You bet they will!
When they believe that their religion gives them a place in paradise for attacking the enemies of that religion they will risk anything. This is especially true amongst the poorer regions where they have so little.

Western forces have been coming into the region since the 11th century under one pretext or another, which all turn out to be bogus. For the peoples of these regions the current American military action in Iraq is just another in a long line of unwanted incursions.

Raph


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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:Heh, Invadeing forces getting a cold reception.

THE ONLY CLEAR EXPLANATION IS THE CRUSADES.



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woodnymph


woodnymph

member
Location: london,uk

Total posts: 313
Posted:You talk about his- tory being solely about war,what about herstory?....it's what we chose to focus on and teach our kids...maybe we should change the focus?
The crusades thing is an interesting idea cos i would love to understand where the hatred that fuels the fanatics and martyrs comes from....


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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:Maybe this video will shed some light on why they get a cold reception http://www.derkosmischetodesstrahl.de/pictures/tank_vs_car.avit=9246
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woodnymph


woodnymph

member
Location: london,uk

Total posts: 313
Posted:link not working........and what i could get was in german?i do understand basic german but some gremlins are pestering me for breakfast so i got to go....

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:A tank crew comes across a guy loading wood into his car, apparently he's looting. They discuss their plan trying to figure out how they should deal with it, so they all get out of the tank, and shoot wildly at the car with their sidearms (gangster style no less (holding the pistols sideways) then he's like "were gonna crush da car, dats what dey get for looting, US ARMY TANKERS HUAH"



Then they drive over the car with a tank, at the end the journalists say they interviewed the guy who owned the car and he said "I am a taxi driver, that car is my livelihood"



Also another thing to point out is the idiot soldiers didn't even remove the wood from the car before they crushed it.


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woodnymph


woodnymph

member
Location: london,uk

Total posts: 313
Posted:thanks for taking the time,astar.all i can say is eek

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