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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Posted:4-6 months!!

It will take 4-6 months for the UN to move into Lybia to bring peace to that country and to feed the starving people. Thats just to start.

The US is already working on the situation.

Why the hell arnt you people bitching and raising hell?

Why arnt you protesting the UN's lack of action?

Yall are all hypocrytes, you dont want to do anything but bash the US. Face it.


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UCOF
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Posted:

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frostypaw


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Posted:quote:Why the hell arnt you people bitching and raising hell?

Why arnt you protesting the UN's lack of action?Go check up on how much money your glorious goverment is in debt by, how much they owe the UN and how they hamstring it regularly...

...then ask that again.

Are you aware that the US usually refuses to pay it's dues to the UN?

The UN does what it can whilst at war with the US.


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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Posted:Okay Frosty, looks like we will just have forclose on our loans to the French for their railway, the Brittish for the reconstruction efforts after WWI and WWII. Also it would be a good idea to stop spending 10 billion on Isrial.

Then again, guess what, we never borrowed money from the UN!


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frostypaw


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Posted:why america should never ever be self-righteous about money

the United States alone owed $ .532 billion (47% in total and 45% of the regular budget)

we don't bash the US - it bashes itself and we try and stop it


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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Posted:So I stand corrected on half of what I said. The other half, about the UK, France, Germany, and a dozen other countries in the world oweing money to the US. Hrm...
Add in interst I would say that would cover a good portion of a 6 trillion dollar deficite.

Here is another way... Why dont we increase trade terrifs and taxes.


Either way, the UN isnt doing its job. Yet nobody is willing to open their mouths about it. Hypocrites the lot.


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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

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Posted:what about liberia...?

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Posted:Well Tom the weather man (hot is it? )

Liberia has been going through some rough times, you know government falling apart, rebels and the government both stealing food for the perpose of "feeding the people". When in fact both sides are hording it.

The US has sent a boat load of Marines to sit off the in the ocean incase they are needed as peace keepers, while the UN says that it wont do anything for 4-6 months. By then more people will have starved to death!


The question is, why hasnt anyone spoken up against this? Well... other than to blame the US.

Atleast we are doing something, while the rest of the wold watches documenteries on BBC.


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frostypaw


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Posted:quote:Atleast we are doing something, while the rest of the wold watches documenteries on BBC.have you ever thought that maybe the rest of the world doesn't want or appreciate the US shoving their noses in?

that it's not your god given right to decide how other countries should live?


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coleman
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coleman

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Posted:i only asked cos you were banging on about 'lybia' and i thought liberia was a far more pressing issue at the moment

yes, the un has plans to move in and help - after all, the rebels want a return to democracy and the president they hate has just been exiled.
they cannot do everything immediately though.

maybe the reason the u.s. has gone in already (other than that liberia definitely has loads of big, dangerous wmd's like iraq's ones and WE MUST STOP THEM FROM USING THEM!!!! ) is because they feel a little extra responsibility for liberia, seeing as it was a country created by the u.s. and populated with the people they had originally taken away from africa and used as slaves.

or maybe i'm just an over-cynical hippy and you think a little too well of your military

seriously though, i wouldn't brag too much about going in early - liberia has been a pressing issue for human rights for a long, long time and there has been intervention desperately needed since 2000(ish).

don't think that just because you don't hear us shouting that we don't care about something - maybe its more that you haven't been listening hard enough...


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i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Posted:Opps... well played Coleman, well played.


Well Liberia was created as a home country for decendents of slaves. However the US was not soul in responsibility there.

Your right the UN does have plans, but they wont take effect for 4-6 months. Yet the whole point is that nobody seems to be saying, send evelopes of rice!!

Nobody seems to really want to protest this one.

Liberia really doesnt pose a threat to the rest of the world, so naturally nobody really seems to care. But when a government that has and has used chemical weapons before gets the squeeze, it would seem that every liberal with a toung is crying foul!

Fortunatly for the starving people of that country, not everyone is like Frosty. S/He would rather see people starve than risk sticking his nose into someone elses business.


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poiaholic22


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Posted:quote:Originally posted by Raymund Phule:

The US is already working on the situation.
And what exactly are we doing ?

I don't know how much you know about the standard of living in Liberia but putting a boatload of Marines on the coast to play peacekeepers isn't going to help matters.

Unless of course the plan is to wipe out all the nutjobs in that country.Which might I add there is more than an abundance of.

Of course the first thing to do would be to set up some kind of actual government and police force.But how do you do that? Assuredly the same rebels who overthrew Taylor are gonna want to take his place.Kinda the same way Taylor and his party overthrew Doe before him.And Doe and his party overthrew the party before him.See where I'm going with this? Taylor isn't the first warlord to rule this country.

Not to say I know a lot about Liberia but after reading about the standard of living and about the "child soldiers" and about the cannibals all I can say is I'm glad I'm not making the decisions on this one.

And I pity anyone who is gonna be assigned with "keeping the peace".


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poiaholic22


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Posted:And for those who don't know much about Liberia ...

Some history of Liberia

Looks harmless doesn't he?

More on child soldiers

More on child soldiers

More on Liberia


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poiaholic22


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Posted:Also am I mistaken in believing that the Nigerian peacekeepers who were already sent were arranged by the UN?

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frostypaw


Great balls of fire
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Posted:quote:Fortunatly for the starving people of that country, not everyone is like Frosty. S/He would rather see people starve than risk sticking his nose into someone elses business.presuming a lot now aren't we?

from what i can see the UN has been working on this one for a long time

Just Perhaps rushing in guns blazing US style might not be the wisest thing to do - just perhaps the UN is holding back to prepare for the aftermath and taking care of all the people

wouldn't want another mess like after the last few US invasions
quote:Yall are all hypocrytes, you dont want to do anything but bash the US. Face it.from the widespread support that the UN keeps recieving on these boards and that people care enough to post about it and know a thing or two I think we can conclude that people DO care about it

i don't think anyone here would really wanna do a let's bash the US thread - it'd be like shooting fish in a barrel and it's not fair really


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coleman
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coleman

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Posted:again ray, just because we don't go shouting about it, doesn't mean we don't care.

west africa aid efforts

since the peacekeepers (and yes, the nigerian peacekeeping force has been there since 4 august) are there now a crisis appeal has been launched for any bleeding heart liberals that might want to send some 'envelopes of rice' as ray suggested:

www.dec.org.uk


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i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
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UCOF
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Posted:why isnt the US doing shit about robert mugabe?

obviously the US doesnt care that he is killing loads of his own people, rigging the voting, arresting opposition to him and is a racist c*nt.


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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Posted:Honestly I dont know who Robert Mugaby is, and I was trying to make a statment that the majority of people will only protest when there is a band wagon to jump on.

True, there are billions of causes out there that deserve a million man march, but damn there are some serius bandwagoners that only want to protest wars.


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frostypaw


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Posted:quote:Honestly I dont know who Robert Mugaby is, and I was trying to make a statment that the majority of people will only protest when there is a band wagon to jump on.What like you just did whilst quite unaware of the true extents of the situation and people's support of it?

You'd think some people only want to bash those who criticise the United States. Face it.


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UCOF
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Posted:That was good.

Me like.



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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Posted:No no no, I was trying to make a point about people who just like to jump on band wagons.

I was also talking about the people on HoP.

I have yet to see any people talking about spinning for food or peace for liberia.

Interantional outcry wasn't in the original idea, though it is very good to hear that there is people out there who care


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frostypaw


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Posted:quote:No no no, I was trying to make a point about people who just like to jump on band wagons.

I was also talking about the people on HoP.

I have yet to see any people talking about spinning for food or peace for liberia.All you've done is jump on the Liberia bandwagon because the US army's done so - are you aware of how many other humanitarian crises are going on?

Or have you just grabbed at the first stick with which you can beat your percieved "US-haters" and started whacking?

Because mate it looks exactly like the latter - and i'd quit trying to big up the world's largest abuser and debtor as though it's our saviour.

You want child labour? Ask nike, ask all your major brands. You want abuse of third world countries? Look at the economic abuse of those countries - check out the "Make Trade Fair" campaign and see who's screwing the third world. You want dictators and terrorists? Find a country where the US set up their goverment - or a group of terrorists like Al Quaeda - US funded. You want a humanitarian crises? Follow the US.

Don't you dare try and use the fact that your esteemed country has FINALLY chipped into the Liberia situation (a country created by America to get rid of it's 'dissident' slaves who wouldn't accept that black=inferior) - which as you can see the UN has been working on for a long time - as a stick to beat us with.


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coleman
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coleman

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Posted:quote:Originally posted by Raymund Phule:
damn there are some serius bandwagoners that only want to protest wars.i think it may be more the fact that war is about as bad as a situation can possibly get.
this war is not a bandwagon (its not even a war - its independent international intervention but anyway...) rather it is the fact that many people will not shout about it unless it is being waged by a country we are citizens or allies of as there is very little that we can do - we will only protest things that we have a chance of affecting.
a foreign country's premier can ignore protesters with impunity whereas our leaders must (at the very least) feign interest in the views of a large portion of 'their' country

we are not all political activists on this board but i would imagine that most people here abhore war.
the only thing i would say i have a problem with here is the us's continuing tendency to act independently of the un in international matters.
besides, the us are sitting off the coast in heavily armed boats waiting for conflicts to break out - this is not my ideal definition of peacekeeping...

so you asked why we weren't protesting the absence of a un peacekeeping force? that's because peacekeepers have been arranged for the interim. aid organisations are already stepping up their operations in light of this (dec in the uk). what exactly is it that you expect us to protest here man...?!

[ 14. August 2003, 23:16: Message edited by: coleman ]


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i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
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coleman
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coleman

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Posted:quote:Originally posted by frostypaw:
quote:No no no, I was trying to make a point about people who just like to jump on band wagons. All you've done is jump on the Liberia bandwagon because the US army's done so - are you aware of how many other humanitarian crises are going on?

i think that point may well conclude this thread.
anyone know where zimbabwe is...?


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i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Posted:*roles with laughter*

Hows yalls toes?

Hrmm.. Dissidant slaves... well... it was created to attempt to appease the mistakes of our past. I dont know about dissidant slaves.

quote: who wouldn't accept that black=inferior So are you saying that we (all Americans) think blacks are inferior, or as you phrased it there, that we think that tblacks are not inferior?

Hrm okay whatever Mr. Racist Frosty.


Coleman, hmm well I wouldnt say war is the worst thing that can happen, but ya I would say it is up there.

Hrm... did you effect the war in Iraq? Not one bit! So does that mean you should not even try?

We are giving the local government a chance to get on their feet and to get things settled down. They are there as a contingency plan.

I dont expect you to protest anything, why should I expect you to take time out of your busy day to protest something that you cant effect.


I do know where Zimbabwe is, and there is some hurting going on there too.

Like I said before there are soo many things out there that are wrong with this world. I have no answers how to solve this all.


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UCOF
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Posted:quote:Originally posted by Raymund Phule:


I have yet to see any people talking about spinning for food

I do it all the time..

Its called busking.


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DeepSoulSheep
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Posted:quote: i think that point may well conclude this thread
Yea right....there's a difference between debating and aguing (sp?).


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DeepSoulSheep
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Posted:By the way the Ray I think you'd desperately like to believe that the whole bandwagon thing is true. That would also mean that 100,000 people jumped on a bandwagon here in dublin and millions of people all around the world to for the first protests. I was at those marches and I can promise it wasn't a bunch of crusties (or even hop people) it was people from absolutely every facet of life. People who had never protested before, yes (it think that was quite clear). But I think that was a reflection of how abhorant the US and UKs actions were as opposed to people jumping on a bandwagon.

Ah wouldn't a bandwagon be a fantastic way of explaining away the largest world wide protest on the history of our planet that was completely ignored by those with power.

Oh and I'm expecting the standard response of how can you tell me what I believe by the way. Don't do it.... you just tried to belittle every person who did protest....


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coleman
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coleman

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Posted:quote:Hrm... did you effect the war in Iraq? Not one bit! So does that mean you should not even try? if you hadn't deleted your post on protesting you could refer to that for my opinion on this. i'm not going over it again.
how did you affect the war in iraq? (and that's a polite, reciprocal question dude so please don't get all defensive here).

quote:We are giving the local government a chance to get on their feet and to get things settled down. They are there as a contingency plan.time to get on their feet? yep, about 4-6 months should be about right

quote:I dont expect you to protest anything, why should I expect you to take time out of your busy day to protest something that you cant effect.that's because you believe protesting is pointless. and (no matter what you think i believe) i have a fairly similar view - not that it is pointless but that it is very rare to achieve an end through protest alone.
to my mind, if i have little chance of affecting a situation that i have strong opposing views on, the very least i can do is make those views known, either through a letter to my government or, if i share the views of many others, through organised protest.

and our point about zimbabwe is that there are many paces like liberia that are in desperate need of un attention but they cannot all be covered at once.
you accussed us of jumping on a bandwagon when it was yourself that found out about the latest humanitarian crisis on the afn news update and started banging on about it.

time to delete the thread maybe ray...?


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i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
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frostypaw


Great balls of fire
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Posted:quote:Hrmm.. Dissidant slaves... well... it was created to attempt to appease the mistakes of our past. I dont know about dissidant slaves.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
who wouldn't accept that black=inferior
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So are you saying that we (all Americans) think blacks are inferior, or as you phrased it there, that we think that tblacks are not inferior?

Hrm okay whatever Mr. Racist Frosty.Huh?

And where exactly did you decide i was racist?

Now... there's a thing called the past... and it's study is history.

If you go to the website here you will find that on the second and third pages it details much of the history of Liberia

to quote: (please feel free to go check if you doubt me)
"This exodus was largely the work of the American Colonisation Societ, an unholy alliance of religious philanthroposts, who wanted the freed slaves to escape the racism of America and slave owners who thought freed slaves were a 'bad' influcence on those blacks still in bondage"

Now if you can read you should be able to see I'm not being racist - in any way shape or form. It was not made as an attempt to make up for america's atrocities but rather as yet another atrocity - "free black men are OK but not in our country" effectively.

Please mate, at least argue intelligently rather than resorting to cheap insults and name-calling


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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Posted:quote:Now if you can read you should be able to see I'm not being racist - in any way shape or form. It was not made as an attempt to make up for america's atrocities but rather as yet another atrocity - "free black men are OK but not in our country" effectively.
Where in the world did you get that from???


Hrm... did those people really feel that way, or did they do it out of fear for the lives of former slaves? I honestly dont know their intent, and unless you have a hand written account of what they thought, then it is pure speculation.


You may not be racist, but predjudice, OHH HELL YA!!!

You openly admit to hating Christians and its obvius that you cant stand anything that has anything to do with America.

Hrm in reading it sounds that they did the freed slaves a favor. Yes there were some people that thought a free black man was a worthless black man, however SO WAS THE OPINION OF A HELL OF ALOT OF ENGLISH!!

Liberia, was started out of care, not out of hate, what happend later on in its history is tragic and something should have been done from the get go. However it declaired itself free from American rule/influance and unlike the BRITTISH we did not pursue a war.

So... did I shoot enough holes in your "Amercans hate blacks" theory or should I continue to use your own resources against you?

quote: that's because you believe protesting is pointless. and (no matter what you think i believe) i have a fairly similar view - not that it is pointless but that it is very rare to achieve an end through protest alone Well... sombody editied their post making my reply to this pointless... so I'll leave this alone for now


quote: and our point about zimbabwe is that there are many paces like liberia that are in desperate need of un attention but they cannot all be covered at once.
you accussed us of jumping on a bandwagon when it was yourself that found out about the latest humanitarian crisis on the afn news update and started banging on about it. No, sorry, it was an attempt at a point using the current events. Nice try on the twist there


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