Page:
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
4-6 months!!

It will take 4-6 months for the UN to move into Lybia to bring peace to that country and to feed the starving people. Thats just to start.

The US is already working on the situation.

Why the hell arnt you people bitching and raising hell?

Why arnt you protesting the UN's lack of action?

Yall are all hypocrytes, you dont want to do anything but bash the US. Face it.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Ummm How many times do I have to tell your Frosty, you need to go reread it. Who cares about spelling... it should be obvius that I dont

No where there does it say that they were sent out of the country for bad behavior like you think it does. In all fact it says that there was this group of white religious people that made an "alliance" that paid for any ex-slave's (that wanted to leave, to escape the racisim) trip to a country that was just bought by that alliance.


Coleman, your deleation basically made me either forget where I was going with a point or made the point invaled. Dont worry about it, if I dont even remember what I was talkign about now, and dont wish to go reread everything


I will admit however, that I dont know everything about what is going on. Maybe when you get a job and work 12-14 hour days, then you will understand why I miss the news every now and then.

quote:
'current events' (plural) implies there is more than one thing going on in the world at any one time
Duh!

quote:
zimbabwe is in a terrible state (like many other nations) and it has been mentioned several times on this board
Well has it been mentiond several times on the board, this I cant confirm without doing a search, but yes there is some terrible things going on in that country as many others.

quote:
i am suprised you feel qualified to comment on our attitudes towards world events when you evidently don't have a good grasp of them yourself.

If you had to be qualified to comment on something, this forum wouldnt exist, why? Because not a damn one of us is quallified to comment on the actions of a or any nation. We are not leaders of a country, we are not at the White House or with Bush when he makes his decisions.

quote:
seriously, how much did you know about the liberian situation (or was that the lybian situation ) before you were briefed?
Who said anything about a brief? Or are you just tyring to sound cool because you know a term used by military type folk?


Folks, the whole point of this topic was to point out that alot of people see that there is this protest going on and that they jump on this bandwagon.

My question at the begining was why arnt there all sorts of protests going on now?

The answers I have recieved were everything from, 'We cant influence this' to 'it isnt a war!'


The four to six months thing was really an irrelivent part of the post.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
quote:
I will admit however, that I dont know everything about what is going on. Maybe when you get a job and work 12-14 hour days, then you will understand why I miss the news every now and then.
exactly my point - if you don't know what's going on, don't start pointless arguments with us about why we're not protesting a peace keeping mission.
and i have a job already thank-you ray - just because it doesn't involve handling firearms or polishing my boots daily doesn't mean it doesn't count
missing the news every now and again does not excuse your ignorance of current affairs - these situations do not arise overnight man.

quote:
quote:

i am suprised you feel qualified to comment on our attitudes towards world events when you evidently don't have a good grasp of them yourself.
If you had to be qualified to comment on something, this forum wouldnt exist, why? Because not a damn one of us is quallified to comment on the actions of a or any nation. We are not leaders of a country, we are not at the White House or with Bush when he makes his decisions.
i think you mis-read ray. no, we don't need to be qualified to comment on world events.
you however were questioning our lack of reaction to the installation of a peacekeeping force and then proceeded to call us hypocrites and deride us for not 'bitching and raising hell'.

you may not have been 'briefed' on liberia and it is evident that your own analysis of the situation brought you to the conclusion that if the un does not keep up with the us then we should protest it's apparent lack of action.
that reasoning is flawed in so many ways, its not even funny dude.
all you wanted here was another argument with the hippies. and you got one. now all you can do is sit in the little hole you've dug for yourself and ignore the fact that we are not protesting for good reason - and that is the fact that we do not oppose the un and its actions in this case.

you are complaining about people on hop jumping on bandwagons, then when a situation arises that you think we should be protesting and to your surprise no-one mentions protest, you start putting us down us for not jumping on the bandwagon?!
if the 4-6 months thing was irrelevant why exactly did you expect us to express displeasure at the events in liberia at all?
you are making very little sense here ray.

if you ever truly want to know what we think i suggest you try an approach that isn't just angry, inflammatory rhetoric.

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


poiaholic22member
531 posts

Posted:
quote:
Originally posted by frostypaw:

similarly to other chap - read the article



You're telling me to read the article ..... I'm the one who originally posted it!

And in that article it doesn't say that these men felt that free slaves were a bad influence on those still in bondage. Only that they were trying to give them a way to escape from slave owners who did feel that way.

And being that you didn't exist 180 years ago your idea of the general trend in America in 1820 is pure speculation.

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Grr closed the damn window and lost about 10 minutes of typing

quote:
and i have a job already thank-you ray - just because it doesn't involve handling firearms or polishing my boots daily doesn't mean it doesn't count
I have the new boots, I dont polish those!


Im not ignorant of current events. I dont know everything and it usually takes a day or two before I hear what happend. thats just life in my shoes.

quote:
i think you mis-read ray. no, we don't need to be qualified to comment on world events
I'm not qualified, to comment on world events, but it wont stop me. That was the hole point, nobody is really qualified, but we dont have to be now do we?


Your answer to my question was a hell of alot better than 'we only protest wars!'

quote:
you are complaining about people on hop jumping on bandwagons, then when a situation arises that you think we should be protesting and to your surprise no-one mentions protest, you start putting us down us for not jumping on the bandwagon?!
I could careless if you do jump or if you dont, but it is just stuck me as odd. Take a look back at all the protest posts made about Afganistan and Iraq. Now that the UN is doing something that I was sure that would enrage some people, obviusly nobody thought that a 4-6 month wait for the UN to take action, was bad.


quote:
if you ever truly want to know what we think i suggest you try an approach that isn't just angry, inflammatory rhetoric
hehe reverse that on yourself and a few other people... how many times have people asked what people though and my reponce is returned with nothing but anger.

Just because I view things differently. Do you just hold a double standerd? Opinions are fine as long as they agree with yours?

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


dR pSYcHoSILVER Member
member
88 posts
Location: Nottingham (UK)


Posted:
I'm not going to throw myself into what appears to be a full on heated debate. I'd just like to raise the point that though Stupid White Men is an amusing and easy read that highlights some important points, it only really scratches the surface... And is grossly overquoted by sooooo many people... A good, evidence based appraisal of Americas foreign policy (current and historical) and approach to other countries (particularly developing) is set out in many books by Naom Chomsky (I'm sure most of u have read some of his work; if not you should!) (I read several of his books and am currently working through New World Order - V.good, bit heavy but educational)

The point is he puts accross logical, structured EVIDENCE BASED arguments without resorting to "America bashing" as u put it.. And it does highlight that yes, the American Foreign Policy has classicly been (and still is) highly agressive with a "whats in it 4 us" approach.. This has been validated with years and years of examples; there's no denying that the US provides help and support to countries; but if ur gonna debate then go out and check ALL the facts rather than polarising your view - Cause they're actually very unsettling.... (My current axe to grind is on GATS, but that's a different kettle of fish entirely...)

Good thread though; some great links there

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Well... Since before the first world war, America has fought for other people, loaned money to other countries and has yet to force its hand with getting our money back. Our national det would be less if we could just get countries like France, England and Germany to pay us back.

So of course we are going to be wanting our share of the pie.

It is only natural.


Frosty, granted the UN had done somethings, they have their hands just about everywhere somehow. Thats just the way it is. But doing ALOT?? I wouldnt exactly call it that.

quote:
and if it got to the extent that we started shipping them out of the country - under whatever guise - then it would have to be pretty bad eh?
They were not shipped out of the country! Those that wanted to leave left. This was charity not we hate blacks so lets get rid of them.

Damn you are a racist basterd. Why do I say this? Because you keep calling everyone elseone. I just figure that your trying to find someone who will agree with you so you can have a little play pal.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Hrmm... insteresting summery, not quite true though. What I did do at the begingin was grab attention. You know its like a car advet on TV, a bright colour was used to grab your attention.

Did I know everything, no, but what I did know is that the UN would not be sending in their people (this is different from another countries people) for 4-6 months. This is what I was commenting on.

I was also trying to point out that if the US tried something like that, there would be an outcry here on these boards.

Racisim had no bearing on the topic untill... YOU!! brought it up!!!

You have sat there and said that Americans were "getting rid" of ex-slaves. Due to their behavior, sending them to this place across the seas where they will never bother the white man again. Your own "proof" of this, says the exact opposite. You have yet to admit this and even though several people have told you that you are wrong, you still try to play it off as if you are right.

You keep trying to point out racisim where there isnt any, why? Are you trying to divert attention from an aspect of your life?

Hmm... still trying to spin the topic ehh??

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


Flameflingermember
27 posts
Location: A mythical continent of fire and brimstone. (Oh an...


Posted:
quote:
Originally posted by Raymund Phule:
They were not shipped out of the country! Those that wanted to leave left.

Hang about - think about this. Are you honestly saying that the African Americans enjoyed American slavery? Because if you are you need to go down to your local farm ownerand get him to put you into bonds, beat you (or not - but it did happen) feed you just enough to keep you alive, and make you do all the work just to get the feel for what it must have been like.
If the slaves had the choice of leaving then why the hell would they stay? Its slavery for god's sake!! Not like an afternoon science class - they couldnt just go "yep i've had enough of this. Later mate!"
I think not....
Im not being vindictave (yet) but maybe all that californian sun has gone to your head Ray - do you realise how youre coming across?
Maybe you do have a legitimate point, but resorting to mud flinging doesnt get anyone anywhere... Flameflinging however....

We are all in the gutter. But some of us are trying to set it alight...You can't be a proper country without a beer. Possibly an airline and a rugby team, but at the very least you need a beer.Eat Well, Stay Fit, Die Anyway


Flameflingermember
27 posts
Location: A mythical continent of fire and brimstone. (Oh an...


Posted:
Oh and another thing - about the UN.
The UN is a useless organization - we all now its no good - but its all we got... Personally i feel that a security council where you can have (14 + 5) opinions, yet it only takes one veto to bring the whole thing down is no security at all. For heavens sake at least two of those countries shouldnt even be there - Britain and France. Britain and France were put there because of their imperial past - which is now irralavent, because those empires are now largely dissapated.
Yes i am anti-US. However, i see exactly what Ray is talking about - jumping on the back of a US bashing bandwagon simply becuase of lack of real knowledge about the issue at hand. Not everything the US does is bad - they donate millions in aid, however they have a history (past and recent) of appalling foreign policy towards governments, and individuals that they feel are challenging them in their imperial quest for supremacy. There are so many examples of US corruption, arrogance, and imperialism - take Vietnam, take Cuba, take AlQuada. But the important distinction to make - with respect to americans like Ray - is that not every body in America nessicarily agrees with their government.
I completely understand your frustration Ray about protesters who simply take the easy option of bashing America in protest situations. I wish these people would go away, read some books, do some research and understand a bit more what they are talking about.
But its not going to happen - and think about it - there is a reason why people are anti-america. The US is routinely cast as the villain in the media. Why? Think about some of the things that have already come up in the last couple of months - sexing up of WoMD dossiers, fake info given, blatant disregard for signed treaties etc etc. Although the US is not all bad, please dont try to support the US as giver of life without acknowledging that the American Government (note the distinction between "Government" and "you") is one of the biggest threats to the world.
You are insulting us, and insulting yourself.
In closing - there is no such thing as a war against terrorism - because war is terrorism

We are all in the gutter. But some of us are trying to set it alight...You can't be a proper country without a beer. Possibly an airline and a rugby team, but at the very least you need a beer.Eat Well, Stay Fit, Die Anyway


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Frosty, are you insaine? Yes racisim had everything to do with it the ex-slaves leaving, they left to ESCAPE the racisim. They were helped by white Americans who were not racist. They were helped not because of their free status, but because people had mercy and didnt want them to suffer any longer.


Flameflinger, no they didnt, where did you get that idea?

Actually it was ex-slaves, that left, and some that escaped the people who immorally bought them.

Actually it is probably all the smog in Asia that has effected my brain, I havnt been in California in just shy of a year! Thanks for playing though!



There is something that you dont understand about the US. I am the Government, So is every other US citizen that is of voteing age! So in all actuallity anything you say against the Government you are saying against me.


I feel there is a difference between war and terrorisim, but you couldnt and wouldnt understand why.

So what do you know about Cuba Vietnam, and Al Quida?

Hrm... did you know that the US wasnt the first to land in Vietnam? Howabout the 100+ nukes sitting 90 miles from the US? Sounds to me like someone was planning stuff.

Al Quida was responsible for terrorisim in many countries, true we didnt launch a major offensive untill they stung us. But they were still there.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


Flameflingermember
27 posts
Location: A mythical continent of fire and brimstone. (Oh an...


Posted:
For ****s sake you moron!!! I was trying to be nice, but if you really want to fight about this - think about what you are saying! Get this - AMERICA FUNDED AL QUAEDA!!!!! YOU GAVE OSAMA BIN LADEN TRAINING SO HE WOULD FIGHT AGAINST THE RUSSIANS!!! Do you have any clue what you're on about? Christ almighty America launched a war in Vietnam simply because they saw economic gains in the region, and felt that communism was a threat to their rednecked sense of security! They went in precisly for the powerplay of weakening the USSR at a time when communism was developing in more and more countries! So what happens? the US loses, leaves the country ****ed up (scuse me) then proceeds to ignore it and everyone who has anything to do with it (think about cambodia, and the dictatorship of pol pot). Thats called being a sore loser, and its one of many flaws that the over exagerated sense of arrogance excerberates in the US. I f you are the government then why the hell arent you doing something about it? Jeez you say youve read stupid white men , so WAKE THE **** UP!!! If they're screwingyou over its for no other reason except that they know you're stupid enough that they can get away with it! Instead of bitching at others who bash the US take your own stand and get out there and do something about the situation in your own country. Its the anniversary of Martin Luther Kings famous speech, and you white americans still wont concede that maybe you are wrong sometimes. People thought MLK was a fool during his time - he was assinated for what he believed in - yet now what he thought was wrong, is commonly percieved.... as wrong! Can you imagine living in a racially segregated society as being right? Course you cant! Maybe you can learn something from this, but then again maybe you really are blinded by your own arrogance. You competely chose to ignore some of the major points in my reply, and back away from what i was talking about. Maybe you really are your government - just like Bush - American, Stupid and Arrogant. Hmph!

We are all in the gutter. But some of us are trying to set it alight...You can't be a proper country without a beer. Possibly an airline and a rugby team, but at the very least you need a beer.Eat Well, Stay Fit, Die Anyway


poiaholic22member
531 posts

Posted:
quote:
Originally posted by Raymund Phule:

I am the Government, So is every other US citizen that is of voteing age!
Please don't remind us.

poiaholic22member
531 posts

Posted:
quote:
Originally posted by frostypaw:

was from me saying this:

quote:
Don't you dare try and use the fact that your esteemed country has FINALLY chipped into the Liberia situation (a country created by America to get rid of it's 'dissident' slaves who wouldn't accept that black=inferior) - which as you can see the UN has been working on for a long time - as a stick to beat us with.
quote:
Frosty, are you insane? Yes racism had everything to do with it the ex-slaves leaving, they left to ESCAPE the racisim.
I'm glad you agree.

You are so full of it ... what Ray said is not at all in agreement with your quote.

Are you just that insecure that you just can't cop to being wrong?

poiaholic22member
531 posts

Posted:
quote:
Originally posted by frostypaw:

Just as your country dropped a nuclear device, the hydrogen bomb, on Hiroshima and leveled an entire city - using terror to finish a war, terror on a global scale - they used terror against you
And while we have argued about the facts of this event in the past on this board I don't remember anyone being misinformed enough to say that the U.S. used a hydrogen bomb on Japan.

I don't even know what to say ....

poiaholic22member
531 posts

Posted:
There's a couple of links that another member posted awhile ago about the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ... please for your own sake get informed.


EDIT: Oh that pisses me off when links don't work.I'll just bump the thread instead.

[ 25. August 2003, 21:18: Message edited by: poiaholic22 ]

poiaholic22member
531 posts

Posted:
No you come across as America threw them out of the country for not accepting racism while he is saying they were given the option to flee the racism.

Little different.

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Frosty, I think you have changed you idea of what you meant after I sat there and pounded into your head that they left escape the racisim, not because the people helping them were racist.

Flameflinger, calm thyself, I wasnt attacking you and nothing I said warented your responce. No the US did not start a war in Vietnam for econmic benifits, trust me nobody gave a damn about shrimp (prawns) like in Forest Gump.

I want you to understand, I consider being called a redneck a compliment. It is a simple ideal for life. Do a hard days work, truly earn your pay and keep, drink some beer at the end of the day and start it all over the next day. Simple, not perfect but simple.


Just like the Germans in WWI and WWII we were not the ones to start the war, but we were the last to leave, therefore got stuck with the bag. Thats life. We have moved on. Secondly, take look at a sat photo of the Korean penninsula, espceially at night. Found here Can you see what communisim has done to that country? Now, you say the US ruined Vietnam, well any damage we did, obviusly in the last 30 years has not been repaired. I wonder why? Maybe a corrupt government that cares only about its own pockets just hasnt found the time to worry about the little people.

For your info, I am doing something about my Government, I vote, I am also doing something for my country, I am a US Marine. So what else do you want me to do? I cant run for office untill my contract is up and believe me, I do have plans to do so.

Hate me hate my government all you want, I really dont care, because you are insignificant in the big picture. Just some twit in Melburne who thinks he as a clue about what the real world is like. I would bet you have never left that part of Oz.

Poiaholic, very humorus

Actually Frosty, I have been to Hiro recently, been to peace park and seen the damage done. While the effect of the bombs it hardly destroyed a whole city. I am less than 80km from Hiro there is 0 radation 0 fall out at the current time.

America has done some terrible things in the past, I wont deny it. Agent Orange was another prime example of good initiative and bad judgment. They litterally ****ed up! There is no way I can deny that and no way that I will.


Frosty, no thats not what you said orriginally, you said that they were sent away because of their behavior. Do I need to go quote you or are you going to admit this? Perhaps you will just be a cowerd and edit those posts!

I have never challend that Racisim had nothing to do with it. It had everything to do with it. They however did not get SENT AWAY DUE TO BEHAVIOR. That is what I was challenging.

Frosty, your wrong, and you just got cought in a spin, admit it.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


Tikamember
106 posts
Location: BC, Canada


Posted:
quote:
Hate me hate my government all you want, I really dont care, because you are insignificant in the big picture. Just some twit in Melburne who thinks he as a clue about what the real world is like. I would bet you have never left that part of Oz.

I glad to see you keep and open mind about people's background, must be that arrogance that you don't have.

Flameflingermember
27 posts
Location: A mythical continent of fire and brimstone. (Oh an...


Posted:
gee thats funny - im a twit in Oz whos never left melbourne. Well actually Ray such statements like that make you an even bigger fool than you are already looking like - when i was in berlin and looking at the remains of the wall was that me having no idea about history? Or at the top of the eifell tower? Or... you know what youre just not worth it.

Im glad your a redneck ray, i really am - because if you were claiming you were open minded and intelligent , then i would be really worried.

Topic closed...

We are all in the gutter. But some of us are trying to set it alight...You can't be a proper country without a beer. Possibly an airline and a rugby team, but at the very least you need a beer.Eat Well, Stay Fit, Die Anyway


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Wow, three posts of personal attacks. Dont I feel loved. Hehe Frosty, your funny. Be a redneck and get off the net!! Hahahaha What do you know about the net? Do you know how to program in HTML, Java script? Granted Im not much of an artist but I do know a thing or two about programming. Hrm have you ever built a computer from scratch, how about code a program? Yes my unintelligent brain knows more than you could imagine.

Frosty, how many of mine have been edited, a slew ehh?? Wow not 1 post has been edited in this topic. What a liar you are. Have you no honnor?

Hrm where in the world did I get the idea that you thought they were shipped off due to bad behavior.

Count 6 posts up from the bottom of page one and you will read,
quote:
If this country started shipping black people who wouldn't behave off to another country it would be seen as horrendous - and it is - yet you're willing to defend it here?? why? it's a bad arguement
hehe where did you get that from. And now you say that you never said that! Interesting.


I said I would bet, that you were a twit that had never left Oz. Hrm I guess you're too dumb to decect a hint of sarcasim.


Its cool though, the three of you can hurl personal insults all you want. I really dont care, because it just goes to show your true colours.

Flamer, I am more open minded and intellegent that you, I do not hate someone because of their government.

All three of you are really petty

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


CharlesBRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand


Posted:
Ok...I normally avoid the war topics because of this sort of thing.

BUT

NO MORE PERSONAL ATTACKS ON ANYONE!!!!

This includes Raymund, Frostpaw and everyone else as well.

You all agreed when you signed up, not to attack people on this board.


There is NO excuse for it. If someone insults you, that is NOT an excuse to insult them back.

If you feel you have been insulted or personally attacked you are all welcome to click the "report post" button at the bottom of the offending post, and let the moderators sort it out for you.

Cheers...

Unfortunately, this thread appears to have nothing more postive to contribute to the board, and so it is now closed.

Why don't we all meet up again in social, and have some icecream?

HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?


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