Forums > Social Discussion > now that everyone else has left...

Posted: 18th May 2003
ok then.

Argument is pointless. People don't base decisions on logic, they merely think they do.
Once a person has made a decision about something they will accept only information that agrees with their analysis, and find fallacious reasons to discredit any contradictory facts.
I don't just mean 'stupid people' or 'close-minded people' I mean everyone including myself.

Convince me otherwise

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

Posted: 18th May 2003
That is sometimes true, but not necessarily always. Give me an hour & I will blast your argument to pieces. (cos that's one of the topics for my social psyc exam tomorrow & counts as revision )

To war!!!

Your life is ending one minute at a time...
So live it.

Posted: 18th May 2003
i think perhaps the major problem is not the time tested and true tradition of debate .... it's the fact that people don't follow some of the basic rules

listen to the argument... both sides
argue with the confines of the argument
use common sense and argue fairly.

as long as you follow these basic rules most arguments can be learning experiences...

certain people have no other way to feel good about themselves unless they are flaming others or trying to break a point unfairly.. ( as an example ... " you support bicycles? but kids can fall off bicycles !.. you hate children!!!! " )

sometimes it's frustrating.... but often enlightening

thats right i look like an albino ape that has had a bad day.. go ahead say something stupid... i dare ya !

Posted: 18th May 2003
enlightening- do you hate the dark?

still workin on a psychologically based answer to that one.

Your life is ending one minute at a time...
So live it.

Posted: 18th May 2003
on a five-min break.
revision going very slowly.
simian, your question belongs to the next chapter (attitudes, beliefs and their maintenance) so at this rate I'll have the answer for you after my exam tomorrow, or maybe next year.
doh.

Your life is ending one minute at a time...
So live it.

Posted: 18th May 2003
I disagree with you, cuz you're a doody-head!

Psychoanalyze THAT

(j/k in case you didn't notice)

What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

Posted: 19th May 2003

quote:

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Once a person has made a decision about something they will accept only information that agrees with their analysis, and find fallacious reasons to discredit any contradictory facts.

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I disagree with you on this a little Simian, as many people make decisions without hearing all the facts. I think if people are open minded and totaly informed it is possible for people to change their minds about something.

Although I still don't believe all that 'the world is round bullsh@t'

Hey I am easily swayed though. I will agree with your opinion if you let me twizzle your beard

Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.

- W B Yeats

Posted: 19th May 2003
king of the bongo.

No I don't want an argument thanks

Posted: 19th May 2003
mr glass... if you don't want a fight- could you at least help me a little?
fishy business
exam went crap everyone so not in da mood for a fight just yet!
I'll soon be back4more!

Your life is ending one minute at a time...
So live it.

Posted: 20th May 2003
outside if you think you're hard enough!!!!

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

Posted: 21st May 2003
Inside if you think you're not hard enough

I remain unconvinced. You assume that i mean 'sometimes people just don't listen'. What i mean is that 99% of the time none of us think rationally or logically about the way in which we view things but rely on our previous convictions.

You can take either side on any non-trivial argument, come up with good points and refute the points of the other side, then convince yourself that you've 'won'.

How often do any of us actually approach a debate with a totally open mind and re-think our entire position based on what other people have said?

And how often do you just read through thinking "but thats wrong because X"
"that isn't valid because Y"
without really thinking about the validity of X and Y (the premises that you are taking for granted).

Not saying openmindedness is impossible, just that its even rarer than you might think. Try and imagine how rare open mindedness is.

No. Its rarer than that Try again.

Whoa there! ok its not that rare. You were just getting silly then

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

Posted: 22nd May 2003
roit. Outsoid 'en now!!!

ready to answer your question now monkeyboy...

I disagree with you and this is why...

quote:

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Argument is pointless. People don't base decisions on logic, they merely think they do.

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I think people are biased by everything they are, how they were brought up, their experiences, their environment, expectations etc. People start off without a clue about the world (a tabula rasa according to Locke, at least as far as opinions are concerned), and go from there. This does not mean they are illogical, it means that each person has their own logic guided by their view of the world.

To you, their way of thinking may seem illogical, but to them it seems perfectly normal thanks to their experience.

-If you had never seen or heard of a blond person, you would assume them not to exist. If I on the other hand, had, I would argue with you that you were wrong and I was right. Each would provide argue a different point of view. I would produce my evidence (my flatmate tim) and you would then try and refute this piece of evidence. You had made your decision that blonde haired people didn't exist and having been provided with undeniable proof, you would be forced to reckon with the fact (indeed would be a fool not to). This would open your mind up to a different experience- namely enlightenment.

Thus an argument provides the opportunity to assert that your logic is above that of others, or in the face of undeniable and stronger counter-evidence, to re-assess your point of view.

quote:

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Once a person has made a decision about something they will accept only information that agrees with their analysis, and find fallacious reasons to discredit any contradictory facts

---

true- We are quick to come to conclusions and slow to change. Once we have reached a decision we are likely to seek confirming evidence and understate the importance of counter-evidence. However this is precisely where the point of an argument comes in- for others to point out that we are doing exactly this (in their opinion), and try and promote/provide counter-evidence sufficiently for the other person to take it for what it is, and change their view.

I would agree with your last post, and perhaps feel more strongly about that than you do!
-We never approach a debate with an open-mind unless we know nothing about it, and even then, our preconceived views of the world will come into play when the time comes to decide which side to take (our notions about the world will tell us which pieces of evidence are more important). This does not however make an argument pointless... it makes it even more important!!! it serves to keep us from ever closing our mind off from anything without thinking more in depth about it.

think thats as far as my current train of thought is going to lead me so far...

Your life is ending one minute at a time...
So live it.