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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Though I dont hail some of these people as the brightest, and do question how some obtained their places in the higher rated schools of America, atleast they went and graduated.

-----Original Message-----
From: Calimquim, Sancho AME2 (VFA-192)
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 9:48 AM
Subject: Celebrity Idiots

The Hollywood group is at it again. Holding anti-war rallies, screaming
about the Bush Administration, running ads in major newspapers, defaming the
President and his Cabinet every chance they get, to anyone and everyone who
will listen. They publicly defile them and call them names like"stupid",
"morons", and "idiots". Jessica Lange went so far as to tell a crowd in
Spain that she hates President Bush and is embarrassed to be an American.

So, just how ignorant are these people who are running the country? Let's
look at the biographies of these "stupid", "ignorant", "moronic" leaders,
and then at the celebrities who are castigating them:

President George W. Bush
Received a Bachelors Degree from Yale University and an MBA from Harvard
Business School. He served as an F-102 pilot for the Texas Air National
Guard. He began his career in the oil and gas business in Midland in 1975
and worked in the energy industry until 1986. He was elected Governor on
November 8, 1994, with 53.5 percent of the vote. In a historic re-election
victory, he became the first Texas Governor to be elected to consecutive
four-year terms on November 3, 1998 winning 68.6 percent of the vote. In
1998 Governor Bush won 49 percent of the Hispanic vote, 27 percent of the
African-American vote, 27 percent of Democrats and 65 percent of women. He
won more Texas counties, 240 of 254, than any modern Republican other that
Richard Nixon in 1972 and is the first Republican gubernatorial candidate to
win the heavily Hispanic and Democratic border counties of El Paso, Cameron
and Hidalgo. (Someone began circulating a false story about his I.Q. being
lower than any other President. If you believed it, you might want to go to
Urban Legends.Com and see the truth.)

Vice President Dick Cheney
Earned a B.A. in 1965 and a M.A. in 1966, both in political science. Two
years later, he won an American Political Science Association congressional
fellowship. One of Vice President Cheney's primary duties is to share with
individuals, members of Congress and foreign leaders, President Bush's
vision to strengthen our economy, secure our homeland and win the War on
Terrorism. In his official role as President of the Senate, Vice President
Cheney regularly goes to Capital Hill to meet with Senators and members of
the House of Representatives to work on the Administration's legislative
goals. In his travels as Vice President, he has seen first hand the great
demands the war on terrorism is placing on the men and women of our
military, and he is proud of the tremendous job they are doing for the
United States of America.

Secretary of State Colin Powell
Educated in the New York City public schools, graduating from the City
College of New York (CCNY), where he earned a Bachelor's Degree in geology.
He also participated in ROTC at CCNY and received a commission as an Army
second lieutenant upon graduation in June 1958. His further academic
achievements include a Master of Business Administration Degree from George
Washington University. Secretary Powell is the recipient of numerous U.S.
and foreign military awards and decorations. Secretary Powell's civilian
awards include two Presidential Medals of Freedom, the President's Citizens
Medal, the Congressional Gold Medal, the Secretary of State Distinguished
Service Medal, and the Secretary of Energy Distinguished Service Medal.
Several schools and other institutions have been named in his honor and he
holds honorary degrees from universities and colleges across the country.

Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld
Attended Princeton University on Scholarship (AB, 1954) and served in the
U.S. Navy (1954-57) as a Naval aviator. Congressional Assistant to Rep.
Robert Griffin (R-MI), 1957-59; U.S. Representative, Illinois, 1962-69;
Assistant to the President, Director of the Office of Economic Opportunity,
Director of the Cost of Living Council, 1969-74; U.S. Ambassador to NATO,
1973-74; head of Presidential Transition Team, 1974; Assistant to the
President, Director of White House Office of Operations, White House Chief
of Staff, 1974-77; Secretary of Defense, 1975-77

Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge
Raised in a working class family in veterans' public housing in Erie. He
earned a scholarship to Harvard, graduating with honors in 1967. After his
first year at The Dickinson School of Law, he was drafted into the U.S.
Army, where he served as an infantry staff sergeant in Vietnam, earning the
Bronze Star for Valor. After returning to Pennsylvania, he earned his Law
Degree and was in private practice before becoming Assistant District
Attorney in Erie County. He was elected to Congress in 1982. He was the
first enlisted Vietnam combat veteran elected to the U.S. House, and was
overwhelmingly re-elected six times.

National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice
Earned her Bachelor's Degree in Political Science, Cum Laude and Phi Beta
Kappa, from the University of Denver in 1974; her Master's from the
University of Notre Dame in 1975; and her Ph.D. from the Graduate School of
International Studies at the University of Denver in 1981. (Note: Rice
enrolled at the University of Denver at the age of 15, graduating at 19 with
a Bachelor's Degree in Political Science (Cum Laude). She earned a Master's
Degree at the University of Notre Dame and a Doctorate from the University
of Denver's Graduate School of International Studies. Both of her advanced
degrees are also in Political Science.)

She is a Fellow of the AmericanAcademy of Arts and Sciences and has been
awarded Honorary Doctorates from Morehouse College in 1991, the University
of Alabama in 1994, and the University of Notre Dame in 1995. At Stanford,
she has been a member of the Center for International Security and Arms
Control, a Senior Fellow of the Institute for International Studies, and a
Fellow (by courtesy) of the Hoover Institution.

Her books include Germany Unified and Europe Transformed (1995) with Philip
Zelikow, The Gorbachev Era (1986) with Alexander Dallin, and Uncertain
Allegiance: The Soviet Union and the Czechoslovak Army (1984). She also has
written numerous articles on Soviet and East European foreign and defense
policy, and has addressed audiences in settings ranging from the U.S.
Ambassador's Residence in Moscow to the Commonwealth Club to the 1992 and
2000 Republican National Conventions. From 1989 through March 1991, the
period of German reunification and the final days of the Soviet Union, she
served in the Bush Administration as Director, and then Senior Director, of
Soviet and East European Affairs in the National Security Council, and a
Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs.

In 1986, while an international affairs fellow of the Council on Foreign
Relations, she served as Special Assistant to the Director of the Joint
Chiefs of Staff. In 1997, she served on the Federal Advisory Committee on
Gender -- Integrated Training in the Military. She was a member of the
boards of directors for the Chevron Corporation, the Charles Schwab
Corporation, the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, the University of
Notre Dame, the International Advisory Council of J.P. Morgan and the San
Francisco Symphony Board of Governors. She was a Founding Board member of
the Center for a New Generation, an educational support fund for schools in
East Palo Alto and East Menlo Park, California and was Vice President of the
Boys and Girls Club of the Peninsula.

In addition, her past board service has encompassed such organizations as
Transamerica Corporation, Hewlett Packard, the Carnegie Corporation,
Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, The Rand Corporation, the
National Council for Soviet and East European Studies, the Mid-Peninsula
Urban Coalition and KQED, public broadcasting for San Francisco. Born
November 14, 1954 in Birmingham, Alabama, she earned her bachelor's degree
in political science, cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa, from the University of
Denver in 1974; her Master's from the University of Notre Dame in 1975; and
her Ph.D. from the Graduate School of International Studies at the
University of Denver in 1981. She is a Fellow of the American Academy of
Arts and Sciences and has been awarded Honorary Doctorates from Morehouse
College in 1991, the University of Alabama 1994, and the University of Notre
Dame in 1995. She resides in Washington, D.C.

So, who are these pompous, outspoken celebrity critics?
What is their education? What is their experience in affairs of State or in
National Security? While I will defend to the death their right to express
their opinions, I think that if they are going to call into question the
intelligence of our leaders, we should also have all the facts on their
education and background:

Barbra Streisand
Completed high school
Career: Singing and acting

Dropped out of school in 9th grade.
Career: Singing and acting

Martin Sheen
Flunked exam to enter University of Dayton.
Career: Acting

Jessica Lange
Dropped out college mid-freshman year.
Career: Acting

Alec Baldwin
Dropped out of George Washington U. after scandal
Career: Acting

Julia Roberts
Completed high school
Career: Acting

Sean Penn
Completed High school
Career: Acting

Susan Sarandon
Degree in Drama from Catholic University of America in Washington, D.C.
Career: Acting

Ed Asner
Completed High school
Career: Acting

George Clooney
Dropped out of University of Kentucky
Career: Acting

Michael Moore
Dropped out first year University of Michigan.
Career: Movie Director

Sarah Jessica Parker
Completed High School
Career: Acting

Jennifer Anniston
Completed High School
Career: Acting

Mike Farrell
Completed High school
Career: Acting

Janeane Garofalo
Dropped out of College.
Career: Stand up comedienne

Larry Hagman
Attended Bard College for one year.
Career: Acting

While comparing the education and experience of these two groups, we should
also remember that President Bush and his cabinet are briefed daily, even
hourly, on the War on Terror and threats to our security. They are privy to
information gathered around the world concerning the Middle East, the
threats to America, the intentions of terrorists and terrorist-supporting
governments. They are in constant communication with the CIA, the FBI,
Interpol, NATO, The United Nations, our own military, and that of our allies
around the world. We cannot simply believe that we have full knowledge of
the threats because we watch CNN!! We cannot believe that we are in any way
as informed as our leaders.

These celebrities have no intelligence-gathering agents, no fact-finding
groups, no insight into the minds of those who would destroy our country.
They only have a deep-seated hatred for all things Republican. By nature,
and no one knows quite why, the Hollywood elitists detest Conservative views
and anything that supports or uplifts the United States of America. The
silence was deafening from the Left when Bill Clinton bombed a
pharmaceutical factory outside of Khartoum, or when he attacked the Bosnian
Serbs in 1995 and 1999. He bombed Serbia itself to get Slobodan Milosevic
out of Kosovo, and not a single peace rally was held. When our Rangers were
ambushed in Somalia and 18 young American lives were lost,not a peep was
heard from Hollywood. Yet now, after our nation has been attacked on its own
soil, after 3,000 Americans were killed by freedom-hating terrorists while
going about their routine lives, they want to hold rallies against the war.
Why the change? Because an honest, God-fearing Republican sits in the White

Another irony is that in 1987, when Ronald Reagan was in office, the
Hollywood group aligned themselves with disarmament groups like SANE, FREEZE
and PEACE ACTION, urging our own government to disarm and freeze the
manufacturing of any further nuclear weapons, in order to promote world
peace. It is curious that now, even after we have heard all the evidence
that Saddam Hussein has chemical, biological and is very close to obtaining
nuclear weapons, their is no cry from this group for HIM to disarm. They
believe we should leave him alone in his quest for these weapons of mass
destruction, even though it is certain that these deadly weapons will
eventually be used against us in our own cities.

So why the hype out of Hollywood? Could these celebrities believe that since
they draw such astronomical salaries, they are entitled to also determine
the course of our Nation? That they can make viable decisions concerning war
and peace? Did Michael Moore have the backing of the Nation when he recently
thanked France, on our behalf, for being a "good enough friend to tell us we
were wrong"? I know for certain he was not speaking for me. Does Sean Penn
fancy himself a diplomat, in going to Iraq when we are just weeks away from
war? Does he believe that his high school diploma gives him the knowledge
(and the right) to go to a country that is controlled by a maniacal
dictator, and speak on behalf of the American people? Or is it the fact that
he pulls in more money per year than the average American worker will see in
a lifetime? Does his bank account give him clout?

The ultimate irony is that many of these celebrities have made a shambles of
their own lives, with drug abuse, alcoholism, numerous marriages and
divorces, scrapes with the law, publicized temper tantrums, etc. How dare
they pretend to know what is best for an entire nation! What is even more
bizarre is how many people in this country will listen and accept their
views, simply because they liked them in a certain movie, or have fond
memories of an old television sitcom!

It is time for us, as citizens of the United States, to educate ourselves
about the world around us. If future generations are going to enjoy the
freedoms that our forefathers bequeathed us, if they are ever to know peace
in their own country and their world, to live without fear of terrorism
striking in their own cities, we must assure that this nation remains
strong. We must make certain that those who would destroy us are made aware
of the severe consequences that will befall them.

Yes, it is a wonderful dream to sit down with dictators and terrorists and
join hands, singing Cumbaya and talking of world peace. But it is not real.
We did not stop Adolf Hitler from taking over the entire continent of Europe
by simply talking to him. We sent our best and brightest, with the strength
and determination that this Country is known for, and defeated the Nazi
regime. President John F. Kennedy did not stop the Soviet ships from
unloading their nuclear missiles in Cuba in 1962 with mere words. He stopped
them with action, and threat of immediate war if the ships did not turn
around. We did not end the Cold War with conferences. It ended with the
strong belief of President Ronald Reagan... PEACE through STRENGTH.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Location: Stillwater, OK
Member Since: 27th Sep 2002
Total posts: 104
Posted:Damn... Condoleezza Rice kicks ass.

And yeah, the dissparity in education is somewhat startling.

No one knows me like I do.

old hand
Location: New York City
Member Since: 8th Sep 2002
Total posts: 899
Posted:As an interesting footnote, during his campaign Bush spoke a few times about the fact that he was a "C" student while at Yale and at Harvard.
I suppose his point was that if he could run, anybody could.
As his father was the Director of the CIA at the time, its not impossible that fact had something to do with a courtesy C.

Additionally, you should edit the section on Alec Baldwin. He graduated in 1993 with a BA from NYU. I know that because I graduated the same year.

I didn't know that Larry Hagman went to Bard. Is he very vocal about being against the war, or is it just that the person who wrote the letter is looking for another actor who didn't graduate college?

There is a difference between education and intelligence. It is possible to learn to learn without learning to think. Thats one of the many problems with the educational system in any case, though thats just a tangent to this thread.


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:It was sent to me and I just reposted it. I didnt edit it nor will I. Mainly cuase I just dont care

Read the first paragraph. I never said they did good in school, I just said they went. I never said how they got in, just that they did.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Location: Stillwater, OK
Member Since: 27th Sep 2002
Total posts: 104
Posted:heh, regardless of Bush's performance, Condi's got mroe brain's in her little finger than the rest of that list combined.

Though I've never had anything but respect for Powell, he's very much so the man.

No one knows me like I do.


HoP Mechanical Engineer
Location: OK, USA
Member Since: 11th Jul 2002
Total posts: 729
Posted:quote: It was sent to me and I just reposted it. I didnt edit it nor will I. Mainly cuase I just dont care Ray my friend, though I agree with what you're saying, I recommend you check out this little disaster from the other side of the fence...

Q&A Thread

Though I must say, Condoleezza Rice is quite the achiever! I bet she does poi too...

What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

Mistress Aurora
Mistress Aurora

Hot Schtuff
Location: Stillwater,OK/Wichita Falls,TX
Member Since: 19th Jan 2003
Total posts: 1032
Posted:First off go Ray!!!I'm also sick of hearing of Hollywood celebrities getting on a band wagon to Hippie-Ville.

quote: As an interesting footnote, during his campaign Bush spoke a few times about the fact that he was a "C" student while at Yale and at Harvard.
I suppose his point was that if he could run, anybody could.
As his father was the Director of the CIA at the time, its not impossible that fact had something to do with a courtesy C. Ummm...Yeah! I don't know exactly what you meant by that statement, but if your taking it in the direction of that Bush is not smart even though he got C's in Yale or the direction of he made C's at Yale because his daddy was Director of the CIA...I believe you should re-think that statement.

First off he was accepted to and went to Yale University...It is a hard school to get in anyway.You may be right in the fact that he got in because of his dad, but that is found in most colleges, at least of the Big 12 kind. When you say he made C's in his classes because of his dad being an important figure then I'd have to disagree with you. Making C's is still passing! I go to Oklahoma State University and I have a hard enough time making C's.If Bush could make C's in college kudos to him because of his choice in major.I have a few friends who are history majors. History is boring to me but it does come in handy with discussions on HoP. Bush's Transcript

My major here at OSU is animal science pre-vet.I had to have a couple classes in history to get my H credit thats required of my major.History is hard in the fact you have to memorize facts and dates and important people and what they did.Although at the same time that makes it easy in the fact that is pretty much all you do for history classes besides your usual essays over things.

One thing that I've been told about grades and your GPA in colleges is that when you get out in the real world none of that stuff matters. It doens't matter what you made in what class.As long as you pass and get the degree you want and can do something with it, then that's all that matters.Employers look more at your background and how you are capable of performing the job you are applying for. GPA and grades may get you some opportunities in college, but not in the real world. You can have a person with high grades in college and no previous background in the job, or you can have somebody qualified to do a job because of there previous background and who have a degree.Either way the only thing the employer looks at is whether you have that lil paper that says "So and So recieved this degree" and the backgound that would be beneficial to that particular position.

RISK: Do not follow the common path; Go where there is no path and leave a trail.

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Sorry Dio, I dont see the relivence.

[ 08. April 2003, 22:19: Message edited by: Raymund P. ]

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

old hand
Location: New York City
Member Since: 8th Sep 2002
Total posts: 899

Location: Southampton
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2001
Total posts: 382
Posted:I'm not going to go into a deep one about all this but I will stir things up for the sake of it!

The perfect example of a true intelligent leader:

Bush speaking of Afghanistan: "This is an enemy that thinks its harbors are safe, but they won't be safe forever.".....Afghanistan is landlocked!!!

In Concord, N.H.: "The most important job is not to be governor, or first lady in my case"

I won't take up loads of space on this thread with these 'Bushisms', here's plenty more if you want them:



[ 09. April 2003, 01:34: Message edited by: Salinger ]

A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words...


HoP Mechanical Engineer
Location: OK, USA
Member Since: 11th Jul 2002
Total posts: 729
Posted:quote: Sorry Dio, I dont see the relivence. Just giving a head's up as to what carelessly "just passing on" a reference can lead to.

The other thread is a clear example of what "just passing on a chain letter" can do in the hands of idealists who want to demonize the opposing viewpoint. What you posted isn't nearly as inflammatory (have you read that thread? utter BS), but I don't want to see you get discredited on account of unverified facts... and at least you made the distinction that you didn't know if it was true or not, you just passed it on.

Not saying anything bad about ya man, just reminding you that if something you post seems a little bit biased, you might want to check the facts of it to make double sure it's legitimate. You're one of the few here who feels the same way I do and I don't want to see u get shot down like some others have in the past.

What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Ahh.. cool, thanks for that

Another email, this an article printed in a San Diego paper.

Super Bowl battle is dwarfed by what band of brothers faces
Bryan Burwell
Post-Dispatch Sports Columnist
01/22/2003 10:25 PM

SAN DIEGO - It was just around midnight Tuesday night, and the outdoor

courtyard at Dick's Last Resort was throbbing with the rowdy energy of a

spring break bacchanal. There was loud rock music blaring out of the
speakers, and the air was filled with the distinct and somewhat
aroma of deep-fried bar food, cigarette smoke and spilled beer.

Dick's is the sort of bar-restaurant ideally suited for Super Bowl
mischief, because it has a down-and-dirty roadhouse feel to it. The
waitresses and bartenders are charmingly rude, and the wood floors are
covered with sand and all sorts of indistinguishable debris. The
on this evening is a fascinating mix of twenty-something college kids,
thirty-something conventioneers and 40-something Super Bowl

Yet there was one table in Dick's courtyard Tuesday night that was
noticeably different from the others. There were six young men at the
and one young woman, and while they were drinking like everyone else in
room, there was something all too serious going on at this table that
you know that their thoughts were a long way from the mindless frivolity
Super Bowl week.

Maybe it was the close-cropped "barracks haircuts" that gave them
All the men's heads were cut in that familiar look of a professional
soldier, skin-close on the sides, and on top a tight shock of hair that
resembled new shoe-brush bristles.

"We're Marines," one man told me. "And tomorrow we're boarding a ship
for. .
. well . . . I really can't tell you where, but you know."

Of course we knew. In less than an hour, they would report back to a
docked along the Southern California coast, then on Wednesday head
the Pacific Ocean, bound for a potential war in Iraq. So this was no
Bowl party for them. This was their last night out on the town. One
was saying goodbye to his wife. The others were not so lucky. They all
sat around the table, throwing back beers and wrestling with the
uncertainty of the rest of their lives.

"We're going to war and none of us knows if we're ever coming back,"
another Marine, a 28-year-old from Southern Illinois. They all requested

that I not use their names. "Just tell 'em we're the men of (Marine
Land Support Squad 39)," they said.

On Super Bowl Sunday, the men of MALS 39 will be watching the game
the mess hall of their ship. "That is, if we're lucky and the weather is

good and it doesn't interfere with the satellite signal," said the
with the bald head and burnt-orange shirt. "But I gotta tell you, I'm
that big a sports fan anymore. It's going to be the first pro football
I've watched in . .. I can't even remember."

Why is that?

"Well, here's my problem with pro sports today," he said. "I don't
whether it's football, basketball or baseball. Guys are complaining
making $6 million instead of $7 million, and what is their job? Playing
damned game. You know what I made last year? I made $14,000. They pay me

$14,000, and you know what my job description is? I'm paid to take a

When he said those words, it positively staggered me.

Fourteen thousand dollars to take a bullet.

Not a day goes by that I am not reminded of what a wonderful life I
I am paid to write about sports and tell stories on radio and television

about the games people play. But sometimes, even in the midst of a grand

sporting event, something happens to put the frivolity of sports into
proper perspective, and this was it.

Fourteen thousand dollars to take a bullet.

As I sit here writing from my hotel room, I can look out my balcony
window and I see a Navy battleship cutting through the San Diego Bay,
heading out to sea. I can see the sailors standing on the deck as the
ship sails past Coronado Island, the San Diego Marina and the downtown
Seaport Village, and I wonder if any of the men from MALS 39 are aboard.

It was only 12 hours ago that I was sitting at the table with my
buying them beers, and listening to their soldier stories. The Marine
Southern Illinois who sat to my right pointed to the bald Marine in the
orange shirt who was seated to my left. "You know, I don't even know
guy, can you believe that? We just met a few hours ago when we came into

Dick's. Oh, I've seen him on the base, but I've never met him before
tonight. But here's what's so special about that man, and why I love
man. He's my brother. Semper Fi. I know a guy back home, and he is my
friend. I'm 28 years old and we've
known each other all our lives. But today, that friend is more of a
stranger to me than that Marine sitting over there, who I've never met
before tonight. That's why they call it a
Band of Brothers."

The little Marine in the orange shirt lifted his glass toward the
from Southern Illinois and nodded his head. "That's right," he said.
my brother over there, and I'm gonna take a bullet for him if I have

He said it with a calm and jolting certainty. There was a moving, but
chilling, pride in his words.

All around them, people were drinking, shouting and laughing. The
kids and the conventioneers and NFL high-rollers were living the good,
carefree life. Across the street, a storefront that was vacant
two weeks ago was now filled with $30 caps, $400 leather jackets, $40
and $27 T-shirts with the fancy blue and yellow Super Bowl XXXVII logo
embroidered on it.

From every end of the streets of downtown San Diego's fabled Gaslamp
Quarter, Super Bowl revelers toasted the Raiders and the Bucanneers with

grog-sized mugs filled with beers and rums. But just
around midnight in the middle of the courtyard of Dick's Last Resort, a
far more deserving toast was going up to the men of MALS 39. We clicked
glasses together, and a few minutes later, they quietly
slipped out the courtyard gates.

Suddenly, the Super Bowl didn't seem so important anymore.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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