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RavingLunatic
member

Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 286
Posted:Are you against the war in afghanistan, and against war in general?Well, I would like your help. please send an email to agressivepacifist@hotmail.com if you would like to contribute to an antiwar effort.thanks.------------------~whoosh whoosh whoosh~

~whoosh whoosh whoosh~

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Tanzen
member
Location: Jacksonville, Florida USA
Member Since: 4th Feb 2002
Total posts: 55
Posted:itsgottab...HAHAHA! This is quite ammusing. You should cease to post in this thread because you're making it quite obvious that you haven't a clue as to what you're talking about.First off, I don't smoke "God's herbs". Never have, and never will. It's illegal where I am. Since I use to be a military policeman, and have remained in law enforcement since exiting the military, smoking pot (or doing any illegal drugs) would make me a hipocrite...which I am not.Secondly, I'm not brainwashed...I just like a good fight. If there's a war, sign me up! HA! I only wish I could see the look on some of your peacenik faces after reading that.
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In all seriousness though, I've already explained (TWICE BEFORE...THIS WILL BE THE THIRD TIME FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO APPEARENTLY CAN'T READ), I think a peacefull solution is always the best solution. I only think war is neccessary when other means have been exhausted.As for the U.S. fighting in wars that have nothing to do with us...that's just a dumb comment on your part. The U.S. is biggest super power in the world...EVERYTHING has to do with us. HAHAHA! I like that!
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Just a little humor there. However, the world better be damn happy that we fight wars that have "nothing to do with us" because if we didn't, then everyone in the pacific would be speaking Japanise and everyone in Europe would be speaking German. But, I can see you don't care to thank us...though, I'll say "your welcome" anyways just because I'm a good sport.
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Tanzen------------------Ravers don't share glowsticks![This message has been edited by Tanzen (edited 11 February 2002).]


Ravers don't share glowsticks!

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Tanzen
member
Location: Jacksonville, Florida USA
Member Since: 4th Feb 2002
Total posts: 55
Posted:itsgottab...one other thing...in regard to my "social skills". I spent the past 6 1/2 years of my life living in the following countries: Germany, Italy, Bosnia, Kosovo, Croatia, and Hungary. That's not counting the time I spent in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait back in 1991. And, it's not counting all the countries that I have visited for a short period of time. So, I think it's YOU that have been secluded on your little island.As for Florida...yes, it's nice and hot here. I've gotten the chance to do a lot of surfing since comming back to where I was raised after being gone 11 years. As for what's "changed"...no, my haircut hasn't changed. Though, I can't begin to tell you what HAS changed. Want to know why? Because a noncombatant like yourself wouldn't even begin to understand what it's like.Tanzen------------------Ravers don't share glowsticks![This message has been edited by Tanzen (edited 11 February 2002).]

Ravers don't share glowsticks!

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alterego
alterego

Warm beer is infinitely colder than no beer
Location: Boulder, Co
Member Since: 4th Jul 2001
Total posts: 222
Posted:The first six Tomahawk missles fired into Afghanistan were launched from the USS Phillipine Sea. I sat 6 miles southwest of them on the forecastle of my ship (USS Dubuque, LPD 8) with a camera taking shots of the red streaks they briefly posed into the air. If anyone feels that allowing the Taliban or any other terrorist group have their way with no consequence is appropriate, I think you need to re-asses your viewpoint. Their are seldom points that come across such as innocent Afghan's being killed by stray missles, but had the United States let the Taliban be, which everyone knows would never happen, can you imagine the catastrophe's that would have occured by now? The Taliban had not only a vendetta against North America, but targets throughout the world. Their comes a point when being conservative must be pushed aside for some stringent action.Love always,Spanky

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alterego
alterego

Warm beer is infinitely colder than no beer
Location: Boulder, Co
Member Since: 4th Jul 2001
Total posts: 222
Posted:quote:SunshineIf a person does not want to look at one topic from a different point of view it does not make them ignorant. Actually, I quite disagree. Not searching a topic forwards and backwards could lead to a grave mistake on ones part. Reason being is simple. For every little personality quirk that you have, ever person that you pass on the street and disregard as a nobody and know nothing of their life have just as many. They divulge thoughts, have feelings, and fear death, just as you, yet in a different way. The world created around you was not created by you, but by many different people with many different points of view, leading to the global melting pot and cultural diversity the world now has. Only looking at things your way is a grave mistake.Love always,Spanky

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:Can we get off the rather cheap and lame personal attacks from both the peaceniks and army boys, like whether someone has changed or not or who smokes and who doesn't. Lets face facts, we don't know each other so can't really judge each other through these posts. Tanzen may be a narrow minded idiot, or his opinion is what he has derived from years of great experience. itsgottab may be a complete stoner, or he may be one of the majority of people who occasionally smoke. So, play nice children
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Tanzen - "There's nothing that ticks me off more than peaceniks" Shame on us, trying to save lives! That f**king Jesus a-hole was a useless waster, and that bloody Martin Luther King, how annoying was he! Both of them should have just got an army together and killed people! No good every came of peace! Get me a gun!Talk is not cheap. Iran is undergoing reform (or was before the State of the Union speech). Why? Did anyone invade Iran or bombed a few thousand people to get there. No, they talked. Have you seen the mess Israel and Palestine are in? They're not talking. Go figure!Sure, thank's for WW2, we're not ungrateful. Countries help each other out all the time. But just don't go round acting like you personally put yourself out for no other reason than that you were wonderful enough to help us for nothing in return.Anyway Tanzen, I think that you've too much of a temper on you. Chill out
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If you really don't want to discuss this with non-combatants, then don't! Stop posting. Simple.Ray - "I see Americans like you as traitors" ... "you should not have the right to trash your own country". Ray, you really should have moved to Taliban Afghanistan, but for now try somewhere like North Korea where freedom is more of a myth. I think I've said it before, constructive criticism of anything is a means to improve it. It's a fundamental tenet of democracy. It's surely more American to practice democracy and freedom of speech than want to withhold those rights. Therefore I could concur that ideologically that you are un-American, and Sundevil is the true American.The truth is, you're both as American as each other, both expressing your opinions. What a cool idea, everyone can have an opinion as long as it doesn't hurt someone else! You are in the army so one day you may have to fight to defend Sundevil's right to have that opinion, and also the KKK's opinion. In return Sundevil will pays taxes to pay your salary. If you don't like this, then leave the army.Spanky - You've short circuited slightly. "If anyone feels that allowing the Taliban or any other terrorist group have their way with no consequence is appropriate, I think you need to re-asses your viewpoint" 1) The terrorists are Al-Quaeda. The Taliban were just part of the '2 for 1' package the Americans took up on. 2) Nobody ever said we should sit back and do nothing and let them get away with it. Now read that point again, and again, write it out and remember it. I'm sick of people saying things like 'So you think they shouldn't be punished?!' Duh! No! Of course, but we'd rather it was done differently (e.g. more peacefully, or smaller and arab led military action).Spanky, you do however have a great point in your last post. Cool!End of the day, the US does do some great stuff involving itself in the world's affairs. It should do, so should all rich countries. And they all do. Look at Africa and developing countries, that's the real evil of the world. The fact that there are thousands of people needlessly dying today is a scar across the world. We eat McHappy meals, and they pick up every grain seed from the ground they can.As to the war front, we will just have to all agree to disagree, and accept each other's opinions as valid opinions, but not our own. OK?


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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:A couple of good links which put the reaction to the US military spending quite well:Carl Bildt former Swedish Prime Minister. "The United States reserves the right to itself to wage war, and dumps on others the messy, expensive business of nation-building and peace keeping.""'Ostensibly,' says one European diplomat, 'this is about security. But quite how a massive increase in defence spending is supposed to prevent another terrorist attack remains unclear. Instead this seems to be about repairing the bruised American psyche after 11 September. America's powerlessness in the face of this attack requires big gestures and reassurances, even if they are counter-productive and meaningless."http://www.observer.co.uk/worldview/story/0,11581,648112,00.htmlAnd"In the interview the former Conservative party chairman delivers a devastatingly comprehensive critique of US strategy. He upbraids Washington for showing much more interest in stamping out terrorism than in tackling terror's root causes. 'When you're addressing that agenda, frankly, smart bombs have their place but smart development assistance seems to me even more significant,' he said. That view is widely held in Europe..."http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4352929,00.htmlOh, and good example of how calling people evil tends to make them hate you more:"Men, women and children marched through Tehran, shouting: 'Our people are awake, and hate America'"http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1813000/1813157.stmBut then you probably think a few bombs will set them right.[This message has been edited by -Dom- (edited 12 February 2002).]

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Tanzen
member
Location: Jacksonville, Florida USA
Member Since: 4th Feb 2002
Total posts: 55
Posted:HAHAHA! I care about what a former Swedish Prime Minister thinks. Now THAT'S funny!
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-Dom-...as for telling me to "chill out", with being occasionally irritated by just a few comments from various people, I think I've been relaxed about the whole thing. Have you not picked up on the sarcasm and humor in my posts?As for why I get irritated by some of the comments...it's just because I have a low tolerance for peaceniks who think we should all smoke pot in a farmer's field while holding hands and find world peace by doing so.Just one other thing...why quote other people so much? Maybe it's just me, but I prefer to make my own quotes and speak for myself rather than having to resort to other peoples words. But, that might just be my American holier-than-thou thinking. HAHAHA!
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Peace and phat beats,Tanzen------------------Ravers don't share glowsticks!


Ravers don't share glowsticks!

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:I've picked up on the sarcasm, but the way it's written and the way the non-sarcastic stuff is written displays evident anger.I quote other people to show that it's not just me saying this. It's providing evidence to support my claim that the rest of the world is beginning to wonder if Bush has gone completely mad. I state my own opinion as well."it's just because I have a low tolerance for peaceniks who think we should all smoke pot in a farmer's field while holding hands and find world peace by doing so." Sorry, but that's narrow minded ignorance. I can sit here and say "Everyone in the army is a brain washed, violent, testosterone overloaded jerk with a short haircut who only got into college with a wrestling scholarship." Due to the fact I'm educated and intelligent I don't make such assumptions.I'm a peacenik, and proud to be a peacenik! Get me a peacenik T-Shirt! However, if you ever see me in a field smoking pot, you're on acid! One reason I quote other people is to show that conservative politicians are thinking the same as a hippy in a field, it's now the majority view.A lot of Americans don't seem to care what anyone else thinks. It's an arrogance that many don't like.

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Code128
member
Location: Boston, MA USA
Member Since: 6th Jul 2001
Total posts: 69
Posted:Ok so now 6 pages into this I think it might be the time to do a recap. What have we all learned? Has anyone changed their mind about anything? Here is what i have learned:Dom is fun to argue with, he backs up his thoughts with cogent points and sources for other people to look at. Dom doesnt belong in the military, people like Raymond and Tanzen do. I am happy for this, lets not forget that the express role of the military is to carry out their orders, I think there may be an addendum to that to the effect of when moral, is that right military guys?Other than that I still think killing people is wrong, war is sometimes neccessary and its very tough to get different people to agree on what is right and what is wrong.Code128"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be to eager to deal out death in judgment. For even the very wise cannot see all ends"Anyone care to guess on that quote?

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A.N.T.H.E.L.I.O.N

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:Nice summation Code 128!That's a very good quote! The quote is from Tolkien, said by Gandalf in Lord of the Rings.

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Code128
member
Location: Boston, MA USA
Member Since: 6th Jul 2001
Total posts: 69
Posted:Oh and I have to bring this up because its just absolutely ridiculous. During the Super Bowl a new series of AntiDrug ads was started stating that if you buy drugs than you might be supporting Terrorists. Which I suppose you could make a case for, but really now. Dude, you got to try this bud its Al_Kinda.Ha! You know there are easy ways to fix that problem, legalize, Tax, and no more problem, no more accidental overdoses from people who dont know the strength or the ingredients that they put into their bodies, and lots of money coming into the Goverment and not going to people operating outside of the law, does anyone remember Prohibition? ( Thats an American experiment with making alchol production illegal which was a big failure for a couple of years) And for anyone who is Anti-Drugs, really if you step back and think about it, its not your decision what anyone wants to do with their time.If you like to have a beer, or a glass of wine, or a cigarrette or an Aspirin, or you like to Ski-Dive, or Exercise for hours, run marathons pretty much anything you can think of you are altering the chemicals in your body to create a changed state. Whats the difference how you achieve the change?Code128Oh and there seems to be something wrong with the Date/Time stamp on all of my messages. Why is it telling the time from somewhere other than here?[This message has been edited by Code128 (edited 12 February 2002).]

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A.N.T.H.E.L.I.O.N

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:God, don't go into drugs here as well! Anyway, another post, because I just got this in the mail:Adapted from Monty Python's Life of Brian.REG: They've bled us white, the bastards. They've taken everything we had, and not just from us, from our fathers, and from our fathers' fathers. LORETTA: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers. REG: Yeah. LORETTA: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers' fathers. REG: Yeah. All right, Stan. Don't labour the point. And what have the Americans ever given us in return?! XERXES: The PC? REG: What? XERXES: The PCREG: Oh. Yeah, yeah. They did give us that. Uh, that's true. Yeah. COMMANDO #3: And the Mac. LORETTA: Oh, yeah, the Mac, Reg. Remember what pasting up used to be like? REG: Yeah. All right. I'll grant you the PC and the Mac are two things that the Americans have done. MATTHIAS: And the Internet. REG: Well, yeah. Obviously the Internet. I mean, the Internet goes without saying, don't it? But apart from the PC, the Mac, and the Internet-- COMMANDO: Jeans. XERXES: The car. COMMANDOS: Huh? Heh? Huh... COMMANDO #2: Movies. COMMANDOS: Ohh... REG: Yeah, yeah. All right. Fair enough. COMMANDO #1: And proper coffee. COMMANDOS: Oh, yes. Yeah... FRANCIS: Yeah. Yeah, that's something we'd really miss, Reg, if the Americans left. Huh. COMMANDO: Rock and roll. LORETTA: And it's safe to watch comedies on Channel 4 on Friday night now, Reg. FRANCIS: Yeah, they certainly know how to keep order. Let's face it. They're the only ones who could in a place like this. COMMANDOS: Heh, heh. Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh. REG: All right, but apart from the PC, the Mac, Internet, Jeans, The car, movies, proper coffee, and Friday night Channel 4 sitcoms, what have the Americans ever done for us?

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toneman
member

Member Since: 18th Oct 2001
Total posts: 195
Posted:Air planes??globalization??sorry, I couldn't resist...
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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Dom, first of all good hearing form you again I started to miss your posts, now onto the topic.I do not feel that anyone should restrict anyone elses freedome of speech, but I think there is a huge lack of respect going out for those willing to laydown their life so that people can continue to have that freedome. Constructie critisisim is good, frankly that is what makes a good man better. But what alot of people like Sundevil do is not constructive, it is out right bitching. They have no desire to do anything real to change things. Except bitch. You talk about world hunger, what about the homless in some of "our" cities. People here have said that America should just up and pay the worlds food ticket but then again, they pass right over the homeless like they didn't exist. Constructive critisism = Good, Bitching = Bad. On the Tax issue I pay taxes to pay my salery!! Didnt ever think of that did ya. More laters.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Makeing drugs leagle wont stop crime and ODs. Did allowing alcohol stop dwi deaths and countless people being killed due to some drunk and a car. Hell no it didnt. Personally I feel that we need to take the war on drugs in a different direction. I think that stiffer punishments would be best. I think that America should follow Singapore's example PUBLIC CAINING!!! I can not think of a better deturent than the threat of haveing your naked ass whipped with a pole in full view of anyone who wants to tune in and watch. Also it should be an act of terrorisim to bring or grow/make drugs into/in America. That punishment would be death. I think that the best way to admister the punishment on that accorde would be disembowlement. Make it so the penalty is so stiff that nobody would want to risk it. Heck after the first few I think that people would start to get the point, but then again mankind (P.C. womankind
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) is generally thick headed. I think for S&G that I should start an anti drug topic. (Lets see how long till a moderator closes it.) About your time stamp, are you in central time zone? If not then it is showing central time, if so then Malcome needs to send a word or two to the people who are responsible for the codeing of this forum.Personally , Dom, I think that America has give millions of people a second chance by opening our borders also we have sent millions of dollars of aid to people all accross the world. Amerian military personell did do alot of damage to places like vietnam, but we have also done alot of good.Personally (about the recap) peoples minds have change, I for one know this as fact because my mind has gone through some change. Personaly I feel that I am a little slower to react and alittle more prompt to listen. My debate style is slowly changing I am starting to reserch and back up my posts (enphisis on slowly).
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The only other thing that I have to disagree with on your summery is that I do not feel that killing is wrong, murder is and there is a difference a very very fine line but none the less kill and murder is different. Murder is wrong and killing is justified, either by the justice system or PROPER military orders.Ohh Dom why should I, as an American, care what you think? It maybe arrogence but then agian I just dont care. Fortunatly for you and others of your sort, that is not the view of all Americans just my generation!
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[This message has been edited by Raymund Phule (edited 12 February 2002).]


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Tanzen
member
Location: Jacksonville, Florida USA
Member Since: 4th Feb 2002
Total posts: 55
Posted:Code128...I agree with some of what you wrote above...especially that -Dom- is fun to debate with.
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Yes, I did belong in the military. It was "in" me, so to speak. Just to clearify to all you non-military people, soldiers do not have the right to think for themselves. It's just not the way the military works (or not the U.S. military anyways). We receive our orders from officers and, under the direction of non-commissioned officers, we carry them out. If a soldier questions an order, then that's a violation of the UCMJ (Uniformed Code of Military Justice) and they can face a number of punishments...to include jail.Much like the American political system, the military has a checks and balance system. The military officers who give orders, receives their orders from civilians (the Secretary of Defense, the President, etc). Those civilians are elected by the citizens of the United States.Perhaps people like me should be locked in a large glass cage with a message reading "Break in case of war."
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When I say things like "you won't understand because you've never served in the military", I mean it...and you should hope you never have to understand. I don't think you would like to spend months in the desert with no running water and only one hot meal a day (if that), while being separated from your family. I don't think you want to know what sort of physical and mental hardships we (as soldiers) go through. And you not knowing is fine by me. I don't expect you to know. You not knowing is not your fault. I choose to be a soldier...it was my "calling" so to speak.I'll go ahead and quote a poem that was written by an unknown author. It's about a military policeman and may shed some insite in what I did.SUPPORTING THE THREE"I am the infantry. Follow me.Not a foot soldier, we're much more you see.We'll take the fight to the enemy.I am the infantry, first of the three.""I am the cavalry. Follow me.A modern horse soldier in a bradley.Charging straight forward to the enemy.I am the cavalry, most daring of the three.""I am the armor, follow me.The arm of decision I'll always be.When the going get rough, call on me.I am the armor, the best of the three."Armor, cavalry, and infantryrush headlong into the melee.Breaking the lines like an angry seadeep into ememy territory."Approaching a crossroads what do we see?The are secured by two loney MPs.Directing us forward, how can this be?How long has he been here waiting for me?""What a crazy person an MP must be.He has no firepower or armor like me.And I thought everyone followed the three.Armor, cavalry, and infantry.""I am the MP, don't follow me.You don't want to be where I will be.Guarding the crossroad waiting for the three.Just my partner, a sixteen, a sixty, and me.""With the objective taken, wait and see.No one will remember the lonely MP.Who held this ground so they could run free.But that's my job - supporting the three.Glossary for words you may not know...Cavalry - tank soldiersBradley - type of tankSixteen - automatic rifleSixty - crew served machine gun (think Rambo)Tanzen------------------Ravers don't share glowsticks!


Ravers don't share glowsticks!

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Tanzen
member
Location: Jacksonville, Florida USA
Member Since: 4th Feb 2002
Total posts: 55
Posted:Oh...one more thing...notice I said soldiers don't have the "right" to think for themselves. That's not to say that we "can't" think for ourselves in the absence of orders. Just means that our missions and such are not decided by us. We don't say "let's go charge up that hill right there", that's decided by officers. However, if all the officers are dead, then we'd be on our own...and do everything possible to accomplish the mission at hand. There are two basic things that come first in the military...accomplishment of the mission and the welfare of the soldiers. Notice which is first.Tanzen------------------Ravers don't share glowsticks!

Ravers don't share glowsticks!

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:Ray, I think you bring up an issue common to those serving in the military when faced with a peacenik. I personally hold no grudge or hate against people in the military. Hey, my best friend served as an officer in the Gurkhas (he says he was too short to join any other regiment!). As an aside he thinks the Afghani action was misguided. We've got pretty similar views generally.Generally a peacenik isn't somebody who says 'I hate the people in the army', they're saying 'I hate killing' or 'I disagree with the policies that control the army'. However, like all people, peace protesters can become very het up about things they feel passionate about and the two become blurred. If a peace movement stops a war the people who won't get killed are the army. If they hated you they're be trying to send you to your death as much as possible
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So when someones says 'Stop war', don't take it as a disrespect to you.If you think someone's just bitching and not being helpful then it helps to not bitch back and instead try to draw them into a discussion, not a bitching session."why should I, as an American, care what you think? It maybe arrogence but then agian I just dont care." Surely it's not the fact that someone's American that they're bloody minded, arrogance is a very common human trait found in every country in the world. But, you know Ray, you read the posts, I read yours, so we do care what each other thinks even if we don't agree
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Oh, the timestamp is New Zealand time, so only makes sense there.


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toneman
member

Member Since: 18th Oct 2001
Total posts: 195
Posted:being an American, I am torn.Surely the world cannot survive on Capitalism. What capitalism creates and fuels is consumerism. If we consume everything we can, what will we have left? We, as Americans, have profited endlessly from capitalism. It's what brought us to power. It made us rape and plunder "developing" countries to our benefit. It's what makes everyone hate us so much. It's not that we have everything, that everyone dislikes, it's that we're SO materialistic, and would do anything to advance that thought process. Look at our neighbors to the south. Just a few hundred miles from me, there are people that have only 1 light, live in a hut, no running water, no sanitation, very little food and very little hope of getting a leg up. That's not our problem, you say. If they want something bad enough, they'll go get it. Unfortunately, they've already got several marks against them. It's hard to make it out of a hole if EVERYONE keeps pushing you back in it. Mexico's rulers keep pushing their people back in, to keep themselves rich, because we keep paying them TONS of money to keep our manufacturing costs down. Americans look down on Mexicans as being lazy and ignorant. Our people hate them for trying to sneak into our country to do work that most people abhor. And yet, there's the American contradiction. We have the attitude that if they want something bad enough, they'll go get it, but when they try to come get it here, we kick the shit out of them after they risk their life walking through the desert with no water. I don't wonder why people hate us.Here is why I'm torn. I see all of this, and think that it's wrong. Plain out wrong. But here I am with my nice car, $100k house, good job for a company that has more capital than most developing country's budget. An easy life. I don't struggle or worry about where my food's going to come from. I don't grow it. I buy it. I buy everything. I fit in the capitalist regime perfectly. What do I do to change? Do I turn my back on the way things are done, and become someone with no means to change society and politics, other than my example? OR do I try to accel at making money in a capitalistic market, consuming and raping on the way to get the means(money) to change politics?Perhaps if we can tackle this problem, we'll find an equitable solution for everyone. Until then, we'll continue to have terrorism, and wars and hate and greed.BTW, what are you buying for your Significant other for Valentine's day? Were you aware the holiday was a marketing gimmick? Everyday is valetine's day. Appreciate the one you love every morning when you wake up, and thank god you're alive to do so...Peacetony

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MusicMinded
member
Location: Netherlands
Member Since: 23rd Nov 2001
Total posts: 10
Posted:I kinda agree with you Toneman. I think it's sad to see how materialistic the Western civilization is. But although people in say South America do not have all this, doesn't make them less happy. I think as long as they have their basics (food, shelter) they're better off in a way. They don't have that much of a rat race, no stress. People are looking up to the US or Europe. They think this life would make them happier, but if you see the life they're leading they seem happier. They share, people out here are materialistic to an extent they get depressed if they cannot HAVE or BUY for themselves. I think this cancer is inside us. I just get sick of all the needless non-functional stuff people around me are buying just to satisfy themselves. I've been away from it for a while, but once you're back in Western atmospheres you automatically tend to get back into the consumer circus again. Although I can say no to some things now...Pure capitalism is just f*cking us up anyway. Our companies are plundering the 3rd worlds natural reserves. Just to make sure we get better from it. They won't profit from it. Just the people we pay off to let us do it. We're selling them weapons which will make them start civil wars and act out genocide. Meanwhile our politicians are raising thier fingers like a teacher and telling them not to fight. How many people are being murdered everyday with the weapons we sell to regimes, while knowing they will kill innocent people with them. And if they turn on us we will make sure we will totally wiped them out.As for the US. I kinda get pissed of by the way the US government threats the rest of the world. Since it's an economic and military superpower the US can force anyone to do as they want it. Although a lot of Americans don't seem to notice, the rest of the world thinks your president is a big nutcase. A puppet on the strings of the people who financed his campaign. Greatest democracy my ass. And yes, it does affect us a lot. Just the way the US forces Europe to accept certain policies or products pisses me off. US foreign policy is only focused on one thing: their own gain. Bending the rules a bit if necessary. It doesn't surprise me people are conducting terrorist acts since for them it's the only way to hit back. Bush make's sure the military gets loads of money, but doesn't even look at what causes the hate against the US, a f*cked up foreign policy. For the record. I do not hate Americans. The ones i met where really nice and intelligent people, haven't met W yet though ;-). Later MM

No need to be void,...Or save up on life,...Got to spend it all,...

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Tanzen
member
Location: Jacksonville, Florida USA
Member Since: 4th Feb 2002
Total posts: 55
Posted:Ugh...if there's anything I hate more than peaceniks, it's discussing capitalism.
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Tanzen------------------Ravers don't share glowsticks!


Ravers don't share glowsticks!

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RavingLunatic
member

Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 286
Posted:Awesome post toneman..just thought i'd post this link, many may have seen it already i guess..http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,648784,00.htmlalso, i heard there could be more attacks in the US today.. anything happened?------------------~whoosh whoosh whoosh~

~whoosh whoosh whoosh~

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toneman
member

Member Since: 18th Oct 2001
Total posts: 195
Posted:Tanzen, as much as I dislike your ideology, I love your personality!
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Without you and Raymond, we'd all be peacniks
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Tanzen
member
Location: Jacksonville, Florida USA
Member Since: 4th Feb 2002
Total posts: 55
Posted:It's so much nicer to debate issues when you keep things light-hearted. I do understand that can be difficult at times though since we're discussing issues that some of us obviously feel strong about.Tanzen"My idea of gun control is TWO hands on my .357 Magnum."
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------------------Ravers don't share glowsticks!


Ravers don't share glowsticks!

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toneman
member

Member Since: 18th Oct 2001
Total posts: 195
Posted:Music, I agree with your sentiments about robbing their resources, creating internal animosity, then arming them to the teeth. The US IS the world's largest arms supplier. For Tanzen and Raymond's benefit, at least we're giving them 30-40 year old weapons. Of course, I guess that would matter if we would land our planes instead of just flying over...
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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:What you think we are going to give a country a stealth? Maybe an Osprey or one of those flying lawn darts!
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First and foremost, I have never called anyone a peacenik, hell I never even heard of the word untill Tanzen brought it up.Dom think of it this way and you might see why I would get angry. You are the owner of one of the lower ranked but obviusly the best (heck lets just use a populer thing around here) poi manufacture. You are in a bit of finachile grief so to speak. The lagest poi manufature is starting to do a hostile take over of your company. They are basicly getting rid of what you love and what you love to do. Would you not get a little pissed off? Personally that is what I feel people who speak out against the military are doing. It makes me angry it makes me frustrated that they are against the people that are willing to protect them. I would like for them to spend one night on the "Wall" and see if they feel the same way afterwords.About finding an equitable solution to all the worlds problems... you cant. You can not raise up country A without country B getting angry and trying to start something over it. America lacks the man-power and the equipment to feed the world, ohh we have the food and the money, I am pretty sure of that. The only way that I can see us (America) getting rid of world hunger without causeing WWIII is to get every person in every province of every contry at the same exact time. Just as an example; Country A and country B are getting some food now country A and B are bitter rivals. The cargo plane going to the muslim country gets grounded for some dumb reason (it is broken) and cant get off the ground. There will be alot of people in Country A pissed off at America because they gave aid to a rival country first. Then we have more planes flying into buildings. Ohh about the attack that was supposed to hapapen on Tuesday, there is no proof that a certain terrorist is in the us nore is there any proof that that terrorist is not in America.Unfortunaly for right now capitalism is what makes the world go round. If you are a consumer your a capitalist.My idea of guncontrole is proper sight alignment and a slow steady trigger squeeze. I would rather have a Mk 19 or a M2 .50 HB Machingun!
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Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Code128
member
Location: Boston, MA USA
Member Since: 6th Jul 2001
Total posts: 69
Posted:Toneman for some possible answers to your Capitalist life questions see the movie or read the book "Fight Club"That very question is the heart of the story.And drugs are bad, people who "do" drugs are bad and should be killed. Thanks Code128

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A.N.T.H.E.L.I.O.N

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RavingLunatic
member

Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 286
Posted:interesting analogy to fight club..me and my friend had an idea the other day, we were going to make a fight club for real..if someone comes up to you, and asks "have you seen fight club" then you punch them right in the face!brilliant eh?*sigh*------------------~whoosh whoosh whoosh~

~whoosh whoosh whoosh~

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Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:Just a hypothetical question: Would we need guns/armies etc if we had no borders?<slowly sneaks out of the room>[This message has been edited by Ade (edited 13 February 2002).]

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Ade, when you think about it, in a perfect world if we didn't have borders then no we would have no need for an army. Unfortunately this is not a perfect world. People hate others due to skin color, religion ethnic background, staff or poi
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and the list goes on. People of one religion would live together and more than likely people of one skin color would live together. I am not saying that either of those is right or wrong, but it is just how things turn up. Why do you think that high schools worldwide have cliques. And when you go to a 6th grade dance the girls are on one side and the boys the other. We like to be with people of our own kind. Good point to say the least good initiative bad judgment.I never said that people who use drugs should be killed just that their punishment would be public and embarrassing.PAGE 7 :P[This message has been edited by Raymund Phule (edited 13 February 2002).]


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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