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RavingLunaticmember
286 posts

Posted:
Are you against the war in afghanistan, and against war in general?Well, I would like your help. please send an email to agressivepacifist@hotmail.com if you would like to contribute to an antiwar effort.thanks.------------------~whoosh whoosh whoosh~

~whoosh whoosh whoosh~


TanzenBRONZE Member
member
55 posts
Location: Jacksonville, Florida USA


Posted:
HAHAHA! I care about what a former Swedish Prime Minister thinks. Now THAT'S funny! grin-Dom-...as for telling me to "chill out", with being occasionally irritated by just a few comments from various people, I think I've been relaxed about the whole thing. Have you not picked up on the sarcasm and humor in my posts?As for why I get irritated by some of the comments...it's just because I have a low tolerance for peaceniks who think we should all smoke pot in a farmer's field while holding hands and find world peace by doing so.Just one other thing...why quote other people so much? Maybe it's just me, but I prefer to make my own quotes and speak for myself rather than having to resort to other peoples words. But, that might just be my American holier-than-thou thinking. HAHAHA! grinPeace and phat beats,Tanzen------------------Ravers don't share glowsticks!

Ravers don't share glowsticks!


DomBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK


Posted:
I've picked up on the sarcasm, but the way it's written and the way the non-sarcastic stuff is written displays evident anger.I quote other people to show that it's not just me saying this. It's providing evidence to support my claim that the rest of the world is beginning to wonder if Bush has gone completely mad. I state my own opinion as well."it's just because I have a low tolerance for peaceniks who think we should all smoke pot in a farmer's field while holding hands and find world peace by doing so." Sorry, but that's narrow minded ignorance. I can sit here and say "Everyone in the army is a brain washed, violent, testosterone overloaded jerk with a short haircut who only got into college with a wrestling scholarship." Due to the fact I'm educated and intelligent I don't make such assumptions.I'm a peacenik, and proud to be a peacenik! Get me a peacenik T-Shirt! However, if you ever see me in a field smoking pot, you're on acid! One reason I quote other people is to show that conservative politicians are thinking the same as a hippy in a field, it's now the majority view.A lot of Americans don't seem to care what anyone else thinks. It's an arrogance that many don't like.

Code128member
69 posts
Location: Boston, MA USA


Posted:
Ok so now 6 pages into this I think it might be the time to do a recap. What have we all learned? Has anyone changed their mind about anything? Here is what i have learned:Dom is fun to argue with, he backs up his thoughts with cogent points and sources for other people to look at. Dom doesnt belong in the military, people like Raymond and Tanzen do. I am happy for this, lets not forget that the express role of the military is to carry out their orders, I think there may be an addendum to that to the effect of when moral, is that right military guys?Other than that I still think killing people is wrong, war is sometimes neccessary and its very tough to get different people to agree on what is right and what is wrong.Code128"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be to eager to deal out death in judgment. For even the very wise cannot see all ends"Anyone care to guess on that quote?

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A.N.T.H.E.L.I.O.N


DomBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK


Posted:
Nice summation Code 128!That's a very good quote! The quote is from Tolkien, said by Gandalf in Lord of the Rings.

Code128member
69 posts
Location: Boston, MA USA


Posted:
Oh and I have to bring this up because its just absolutely ridiculous. During the Super Bowl a new series of AntiDrug ads was started stating that if you buy drugs than you might be supporting Terrorists. Which I suppose you could make a case for, but really now. Dude, you got to try this bud its Al_Kinda.Ha! You know there are easy ways to fix that problem, legalize, Tax, and no more problem, no more accidental overdoses from people who dont know the strength or the ingredients that they put into their bodies, and lots of money coming into the Goverment and not going to people operating outside of the law, does anyone remember Prohibition? ( Thats an American experiment with making alchol production illegal which was a big failure for a couple of years) And for anyone who is Anti-Drugs, really if you step back and think about it, its not your decision what anyone wants to do with their time.If you like to have a beer, or a glass of wine, or a cigarrette or an Aspirin, or you like to Ski-Dive, or Exercise for hours, run marathons pretty much anything you can think of you are altering the chemicals in your body to create a changed state. Whats the difference how you achieve the change?Code128Oh and there seems to be something wrong with the Date/Time stamp on all of my messages. Why is it telling the time from somewhere other than here?[This message has been edited by Code128 (edited 12 February 2002).]

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A.N.T.H.E.L.I.O.N


DomBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK


Posted:
God, don't go into drugs here as well! Anyway, another post, because I just got this in the mail:Adapted from Monty Python's Life of Brian.REG: They've bled us white, the bastards. They've taken everything we had, and not just from us, from our fathers, and from our fathers' fathers. LORETTA: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers. REG: Yeah. LORETTA: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers' fathers. REG: Yeah. All right, Stan. Don't labour the point. And what have the Americans ever given us in return?! XERXES: The PC? REG: What? XERXES: The PCREG: Oh. Yeah, yeah. They did give us that. Uh, that's true. Yeah. COMMANDO #3: And the Mac. LORETTA: Oh, yeah, the Mac, Reg. Remember what pasting up used to be like? REG: Yeah. All right. I'll grant you the PC and the Mac are two things that the Americans have done. MATTHIAS: And the Internet. REG: Well, yeah. Obviously the Internet. I mean, the Internet goes without saying, don't it? But apart from the PC, the Mac, and the Internet-- COMMANDO: Jeans. XERXES: The car. COMMANDOS: Huh? Heh? Huh... COMMANDO #2: Movies. COMMANDOS: Ohh... REG: Yeah, yeah. All right. Fair enough. COMMANDO #1: And proper coffee. COMMANDOS: Oh, yes. Yeah... FRANCIS: Yeah. Yeah, that's something we'd really miss, Reg, if the Americans left. Huh. COMMANDO: Rock and roll. LORETTA: And it's safe to watch comedies on Channel 4 on Friday night now, Reg. FRANCIS: Yeah, they certainly know how to keep order. Let's face it. They're the only ones who could in a place like this. COMMANDOS: Heh, heh. Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh. REG: All right, but apart from the PC, the Mac, Internet, Jeans, The car, movies, proper coffee, and Friday night Channel 4 sitcoms, what have the Americans ever done for us?

tonemanmember
195 posts

Posted:
Air planes??globalization??sorry, I couldn't resist... wink

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Dom, first of all good hearing form you again I started to miss your posts, now onto the topic.I do not feel that anyone should restrict anyone elses freedome of speech, but I think there is a huge lack of respect going out for those willing to laydown their life so that people can continue to have that freedome. Constructie critisisim is good, frankly that is what makes a good man better. But what alot of people like Sundevil do is not constructive, it is out right bitching. They have no desire to do anything real to change things. Except bitch. You talk about world hunger, what about the homless in some of "our" cities. People here have said that America should just up and pay the worlds food ticket but then again, they pass right over the homeless like they didn't exist. Constructive critisism = Good, Bitching = Bad. On the Tax issue I pay taxes to pay my salery!! Didnt ever think of that did ya. More laters.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Makeing drugs leagle wont stop crime and ODs. Did allowing alcohol stop dwi deaths and countless people being killed due to some drunk and a car. Hell no it didnt. Personally I feel that we need to take the war on drugs in a different direction. I think that stiffer punishments would be best. I think that America should follow Singapore's example PUBLIC CAINING!!! I can not think of a better deturent than the threat of haveing your naked ass whipped with a pole in full view of anyone who wants to tune in and watch. Also it should be an act of terrorisim to bring or grow/make drugs into/in America. That punishment would be death. I think that the best way to admister the punishment on that accorde would be disembowlement. Make it so the penalty is so stiff that nobody would want to risk it. Heck after the first few I think that people would start to get the point, but then again mankind (P.C. womankind wink ) is generally thick headed. I think for S&G that I should start an anti drug topic. (Lets see how long till a moderator closes it.) About your time stamp, are you in central time zone? If not then it is showing central time, if so then Malcome needs to send a word or two to the people who are responsible for the codeing of this forum.Personally , Dom, I think that America has give millions of people a second chance by opening our borders also we have sent millions of dollars of aid to people all accross the world. Amerian military personell did do alot of damage to places like vietnam, but we have also done alot of good.Personally (about the recap) peoples minds have change, I for one know this as fact because my mind has gone through some change. Personaly I feel that I am a little slower to react and alittle more prompt to listen. My debate style is slowly changing I am starting to reserch and back up my posts (enphisis on slowly). smile The only other thing that I have to disagree with on your summery is that I do not feel that killing is wrong, murder is and there is a difference a very very fine line but none the less kill and murder is different. Murder is wrong and killing is justified, either by the justice system or PROPER military orders.Ohh Dom why should I, as an American, care what you think? It maybe arrogence but then agian I just dont care. Fortunatly for you and others of your sort, that is not the view of all Americans just my generation! wink[This message has been edited by Raymund Phule (edited 12 February 2002).]

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


TanzenBRONZE Member
member
55 posts
Location: Jacksonville, Florida USA


Posted:
Code128...I agree with some of what you wrote above...especially that -Dom- is fun to debate with. grinYes, I did belong in the military. It was "in" me, so to speak. Just to clearify to all you non-military people, soldiers do not have the right to think for themselves. It's just not the way the military works (or not the U.S. military anyways). We receive our orders from officers and, under the direction of non-commissioned officers, we carry them out. If a soldier questions an order, then that's a violation of the UCMJ (Uniformed Code of Military Justice) and they can face a number of punishments...to include jail.Much like the American political system, the military has a checks and balance system. The military officers who give orders, receives their orders from civilians (the Secretary of Defense, the President, etc). Those civilians are elected by the citizens of the United States.Perhaps people like me should be locked in a large glass cage with a message reading "Break in case of war." grinWhen I say things like "you won't understand because you've never served in the military", I mean it...and you should hope you never have to understand. I don't think you would like to spend months in the desert with no running water and only one hot meal a day (if that), while being separated from your family. I don't think you want to know what sort of physical and mental hardships we (as soldiers) go through. And you not knowing is fine by me. I don't expect you to know. You not knowing is not your fault. I choose to be a soldier...it was my "calling" so to speak.I'll go ahead and quote a poem that was written by an unknown author. It's about a military policeman and may shed some insite in what I did.SUPPORTING THE THREE"I am the infantry. Follow me.Not a foot soldier, we're much more you see.We'll take the fight to the enemy.I am the infantry, first of the three.""I am the cavalry. Follow me.A modern horse soldier in a bradley.Charging straight forward to the enemy.I am the cavalry, most daring of the three.""I am the armor, follow me.The arm of decision I'll always be.When the going get rough, call on me.I am the armor, the best of the three."Armor, cavalry, and infantryrush headlong into the melee.Breaking the lines like an angry seadeep into ememy territory."Approaching a crossroads what do we see?The are secured by two loney MPs.Directing us forward, how can this be?How long has he been here waiting for me?""What a crazy person an MP must be.He has no firepower or armor like me.And I thought everyone followed the three.Armor, cavalry, and infantry.""I am the MP, don't follow me.You don't want to be where I will be.Guarding the crossroad waiting for the three.Just my partner, a sixteen, a sixty, and me.""With the objective taken, wait and see.No one will remember the lonely MP.Who held this ground so they could run free.But that's my job - supporting the three.Glossary for words you may not know...Cavalry - tank soldiersBradley - type of tankSixteen - automatic rifleSixty - crew served machine gun (think Rambo)Tanzen------------------Ravers don't share glowsticks!

Ravers don't share glowsticks!


TanzenBRONZE Member
member
55 posts
Location: Jacksonville, Florida USA


Posted:
Oh...one more thing...notice I said soldiers don't have the "right" to think for themselves. That's not to say that we "can't" think for ourselves in the absence of orders. Just means that our missions and such are not decided by us. We don't say "let's go charge up that hill right there", that's decided by officers. However, if all the officers are dead, then we'd be on our own...and do everything possible to accomplish the mission at hand. There are two basic things that come first in the military...accomplishment of the mission and the welfare of the soldiers. Notice which is first.Tanzen------------------Ravers don't share glowsticks!

Ravers don't share glowsticks!


DomBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK


Posted:
Ray, I think you bring up an issue common to those serving in the military when faced with a peacenik. I personally hold no grudge or hate against people in the military. Hey, my best friend served as an officer in the Gurkhas (he says he was too short to join any other regiment!). As an aside he thinks the Afghani action was misguided. We've got pretty similar views generally.Generally a peacenik isn't somebody who says 'I hate the people in the army', they're saying 'I hate killing' or 'I disagree with the policies that control the army'. However, like all people, peace protesters can become very het up about things they feel passionate about and the two become blurred. If a peace movement stops a war the people who won't get killed are the army. If they hated you they're be trying to send you to your death as much as possible smileSo when someones says 'Stop war', don't take it as a disrespect to you.If you think someone's just bitching and not being helpful then it helps to not bitch back and instead try to draw them into a discussion, not a bitching session."why should I, as an American, care what you think? It maybe arrogence but then agian I just dont care." Surely it's not the fact that someone's American that they're bloody minded, arrogance is a very common human trait found in every country in the world. But, you know Ray, you read the posts, I read yours, so we do care what each other thinks even if we don't agree winkOh, the timestamp is New Zealand time, so only makes sense there.

tonemanmember
195 posts

Posted:
being an American, I am torn.Surely the world cannot survive on Capitalism. What capitalism creates and fuels is consumerism. If we consume everything we can, what will we have left? We, as Americans, have profited endlessly from capitalism. It's what brought us to power. It made us rape and plunder "developing" countries to our benefit. It's what makes everyone hate us so much. It's not that we have everything, that everyone dislikes, it's that we're SO materialistic, and would do anything to advance that thought process. Look at our neighbors to the south. Just a few hundred miles from me, there are people that have only 1 light, live in a hut, no running water, no sanitation, very little food and very little hope of getting a leg up. That's not our problem, you say. If they want something bad enough, they'll go get it. Unfortunately, they've already got several marks against them. It's hard to make it out of a hole if EVERYONE keeps pushing you back in it. Mexico's rulers keep pushing their people back in, to keep themselves rich, because we keep paying them TONS of money to keep our manufacturing costs down. Americans look down on Mexicans as being lazy and ignorant. Our people hate them for trying to sneak into our country to do work that most people abhor. And yet, there's the American contradiction. We have the attitude that if they want something bad enough, they'll go get it, but when they try to come get it here, we kick the shit out of them after they risk their life walking through the desert with no water. I don't wonder why people hate us.Here is why I'm torn. I see all of this, and think that it's wrong. Plain out wrong. But here I am with my nice car, $100k house, good job for a company that has more capital than most developing country's budget. An easy life. I don't struggle or worry about where my food's going to come from. I don't grow it. I buy it. I buy everything. I fit in the capitalist regime perfectly. What do I do to change? Do I turn my back on the way things are done, and become someone with no means to change society and politics, other than my example? OR do I try to accel at making money in a capitalistic market, consuming and raping on the way to get the means(money) to change politics?Perhaps if we can tackle this problem, we'll find an equitable solution for everyone. Until then, we'll continue to have terrorism, and wars and hate and greed.BTW, what are you buying for your Significant other for Valentine's day? Were you aware the holiday was a marketing gimmick? Everyday is valetine's day. Appreciate the one you love every morning when you wake up, and thank god you're alive to do so...Peacetony

MusicMindedmember
10 posts
Location: Netherlands


Posted:
I kinda agree with you Toneman. I think it's sad to see how materialistic the Western civilization is. But although people in say South America do not have all this, doesn't make them less happy. I think as long as they have their basics (food, shelter) they're better off in a way. They don't have that much of a rat race, no stress. People are looking up to the US or Europe. They think this life would make them happier, but if you see the life they're leading they seem happier. They share, people out here are materialistic to an extent they get depressed if they cannot HAVE or BUY for themselves. I think this cancer is inside us. I just get sick of all the needless non-functional stuff people around me are buying just to satisfy themselves. I've been away from it for a while, but once you're back in Western atmospheres you automatically tend to get back into the consumer circus again. Although I can say no to some things now...Pure capitalism is just f*cking us up anyway. Our companies are plundering the 3rd worlds natural reserves. Just to make sure we get better from it. They won't profit from it. Just the people we pay off to let us do it. We're selling them weapons which will make them start civil wars and act out genocide. Meanwhile our politicians are raising thier fingers like a teacher and telling them not to fight. How many people are being murdered everyday with the weapons we sell to regimes, while knowing they will kill innocent people with them. And if they turn on us we will make sure we will totally wiped them out.As for the US. I kinda get pissed of by the way the US government threats the rest of the world. Since it's an economic and military superpower the US can force anyone to do as they want it. Although a lot of Americans don't seem to notice, the rest of the world thinks your president is a big nutcase. A puppet on the strings of the people who financed his campaign. Greatest democracy my ass. And yes, it does affect us a lot. Just the way the US forces Europe to accept certain policies or products pisses me off. US foreign policy is only focused on one thing: their own gain. Bending the rules a bit if necessary. It doesn't surprise me people are conducting terrorist acts since for them it's the only way to hit back. Bush make's sure the military gets loads of money, but doesn't even look at what causes the hate against the US, a f*cked up foreign policy. For the record. I do not hate Americans. The ones i met where really nice and intelligent people, haven't met W yet though ;-). Later MM

No need to be void,...Or save up on life,...Got to spend it all,...


TanzenBRONZE Member
member
55 posts
Location: Jacksonville, Florida USA


Posted:
Ugh...if there's anything I hate more than peaceniks, it's discussing capitalism. winkTanzen------------------Ravers don't share glowsticks!

Ravers don't share glowsticks!


RavingLunaticmember
286 posts

Posted:
Awesome post toneman..just thought i'd post this link, many may have seen it already i guess..https://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,648784,00.htmlalso, i heard there could be more attacks in the US today.. anything happened?------------------~whoosh whoosh whoosh~

~whoosh whoosh whoosh~


tonemanmember
195 posts

Posted:
Tanzen, as much as I dislike your ideology, I love your personality! smileWithout you and Raymond, we'd all be peacniks wink

TanzenBRONZE Member
member
55 posts
Location: Jacksonville, Florida USA


Posted:
It's so much nicer to debate issues when you keep things light-hearted. I do understand that can be difficult at times though since we're discussing issues that some of us obviously feel strong about.Tanzen"My idea of gun control is TWO hands on my .357 Magnum." grin------------------Ravers don't share glowsticks!

Ravers don't share glowsticks!


tonemanmember
195 posts

Posted:
Music, I agree with your sentiments about robbing their resources, creating internal animosity, then arming them to the teeth. The US IS the world's largest arms supplier. For Tanzen and Raymond's benefit, at least we're giving them 30-40 year old weapons. Of course, I guess that would matter if we would land our planes instead of just flying over... wink

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
What you think we are going to give a country a stealth? Maybe an Osprey or one of those flying lawn darts! winkFirst and foremost, I have never called anyone a peacenik, hell I never even heard of the word untill Tanzen brought it up.Dom think of it this way and you might see why I would get angry. You are the owner of one of the lower ranked but obviusly the best (heck lets just use a populer thing around here) poi manufacture. You are in a bit of finachile grief so to speak. The lagest poi manufature is starting to do a hostile take over of your company. They are basicly getting rid of what you love and what you love to do. Would you not get a little pissed off? Personally that is what I feel people who speak out against the military are doing. It makes me angry it makes me frustrated that they are against the people that are willing to protect them. I would like for them to spend one night on the "Wall" and see if they feel the same way afterwords.About finding an equitable solution to all the worlds problems... you cant. You can not raise up country A without country B getting angry and trying to start something over it. America lacks the man-power and the equipment to feed the world, ohh we have the food and the money, I am pretty sure of that. The only way that I can see us (America) getting rid of world hunger without causeing WWIII is to get every person in every province of every contry at the same exact time. Just as an example; Country A and country B are getting some food now country A and B are bitter rivals. The cargo plane going to the muslim country gets grounded for some dumb reason (it is broken) and cant get off the ground. There will be alot of people in Country A pissed off at America because they gave aid to a rival country first. Then we have more planes flying into buildings. Ohh about the attack that was supposed to hapapen on Tuesday, there is no proof that a certain terrorist is in the us nore is there any proof that that terrorist is not in America.Unfortunaly for right now capitalism is what makes the world go round. If you are a consumer your a capitalist.My idea of guncontrole is proper sight alignment and a slow steady trigger squeeze. I would rather have a Mk 19 or a M2 .50 HB Machingun! wink

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


Code128member
69 posts
Location: Boston, MA USA


Posted:
Toneman for some possible answers to your Capitalist life questions see the movie or read the book "Fight Club"That very question is the heart of the story.And drugs are bad, people who "do" drugs are bad and should be killed. Thanks Code128

------------------
A.N.T.H.E.L.I.O.N


RavingLunaticmember
286 posts

Posted:
interesting analogy to fight club..me and my friend had an idea the other day, we were going to make a fight club for real..if someone comes up to you, and asks "have you seen fight club" then you punch them right in the face!brilliant eh?*sigh*------------------~whoosh whoosh whoosh~

~whoosh whoosh whoosh~


AdeSILVER Member
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia


Posted:
Just a hypothetical question: Would we need guns/armies etc if we had no borders?[This message has been edited by Ade (edited 13 February 2002).]

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Ade, when you think about it, in a perfect world if we didn't have borders then no we would have no need for an army. Unfortunately this is not a perfect world. People hate others due to skin color, religion ethnic background, staff or poi wink and the list goes on. People of one religion would live together and more than likely people of one skin color would live together. I am not saying that either of those is right or wrong, but it is just how things turn up. Why do you think that high schools worldwide have cliques. And when you go to a 6th grade dance the girls are on one side and the boys the other. We like to be with people of our own kind. Good point to say the least good initiative bad judgment.I never said that people who use drugs should be killed just that their punishment would be public and embarrassing.PAGE 7 :P[This message has been edited by Raymund Phule (edited 13 February 2002).]

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


RoziSILVER Member
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia


Posted:
Hey Raymond,Long time no talk winkI was going to leap in there with an "well I don't like just hanging out with my own kind", but then I sat and thought about your point for a time. It is true, I do like hanging out with my own kind, it is just my definition of my kind tends to be fairly broad, not based on skin colour, gender, gender preference etc. Those who are not my kind are individuals who I assume are dangerous, and I avoid them. So I never get to know whether they are what I think they are. The whole "own kind" thing is a very real but very artificial construct. Sometimes it is useful, it keeps me from talking to weird psycho persons with knives at train stations. But it also keeps me from talking to people who may just appear that way (hopefully minus the knife).I am going to put forward something here, prejudice does have a purpose. It is usually based in a desire to protect ourselves from potentially dangerous and different others. The important thing is to look beyond the stereotype to see whether the individual actually is as dangerous as we have assumed.And now back to the war....R.

It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Rozi, that is an excellent point but lets not just limit "own kind" to race and sex. Take it a step further, when I was growing up I was in band (yes I was one of THOSE) I had the tendency to hang out with other ppls in the band. My friends were those people that had common intrests. My closer friends were into computers and my best friends were into both. Now I did have the few friends that were not into either and those for some reason were some of the closest friends that I ever had. I must say though that the majority of of us keep to our own kind but we all have friends that are the exception.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


RoziSILVER Member
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia


Posted:
wink *now having interesting vision of Raymond as poi/glowstick wielding muso in uniform with penchant for computers*I am very interested to know whether any of you guys believe in a concept of absolute truth? (You know, the “cold hard facts” bit.) How tolerant do you think you are of the idea that another person’s perspective is the truth for them? And how does that impact upon how you see this situation?R.

It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
what you mean like what I see as blue is what you see as brown but you call it blue just beause your teacher in kindergargen told you it was blue?The only thing in this world that is absolute is the truth. "I am the way the TRUTH and the light" ~Jesus Christ~ The truth does not vary person to person it is absolute. "*now having interesting vision of Raymond as poi/glowstick wielding muso in uniform with penchant for computers*" Hmm... should I be scared or should my ego be on the rise after that remark? wink You forgot to mention medieval armourer and warrior. Man I love the SCA!!On a different note, I have been looking a speaches that Americans have done there are a few I like and some that I dont, this is where I have found most of em...https://douglass.speech.nwu.edu/There are alot of good speaches unfortunatly my attention span is... any how what was I saying. [image]https://www.homeofpoi.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif">------------------[/image] By angel hands to valor given,Thy stars have lit the welkin dome, And all their hues were born in heaven!Forever wave that standard sheet, Where breathes the toe but falls before usWith freedom's soil beneath our feet And freedom's banner streaming o'er us!"Albert J. Beveridge

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


RoziSILVER Member
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia


Posted:
I had a quick look at it. I am sometimes envious of the oral history that the U.S.A. has, it seems that in Oz-land you need to have connections with political parties to be aware of/interested in this sort of thing.I do actually believe, to a certain extent, that there is no absolute truth. Or at the very least we "misname" as truth or fact, many things that are not. I can't quote the facts or figures like you guys, right now, but so much of what you have been talking about is a mixture of truth and perception. So someone will act on their interpretation of a situation, and someone will react on their interpretation of that persons action. For example, the world trade centre was bombed (fact), the U.S. acts on their interpretation of the situation as being the fault of a particular group being aided by a particular country, & attacks Afghanistan, others interpret this as unwarranted & overly aggressive.I am reading back over this and realising how softly I am speaking about something I have no right to be so dis-passionate about. & I also know that many would say, "what is the point of what you are saying? You are just trying to be nice to everyone". I am taking this role fairly naturally at the moment, as a fairly politically jaded individual in my home country. I am tired of people shouting & being so damn certain that they are right without any self-reflection on their motivations. Such certainty scares the shit out of me.R.

It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Rozi, somethings you just have got to be certain of. The truth is always the truth. It can not change. If someone calles a lie the truth it is still a lie because it is not the truth.I have nothing to debate on your post so I will wait untill someone else posts somehting on this topic to unleashe the flying fingers that I posess. smile

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


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