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SpArKiE


SpArKiE

*shiny shiny*
Location: Townsville, QLD, Aust.

Total posts: 218
Posted:heres a petition thats being signed by 28338 ppl (at this present moment) from around the world.

its a petition for Bush to say no to the war.

if you are behind the no war way of life- go to this site and sign ya name!

make that number of signatures bigger!!

and hopefully Bush will stop and think about makin world peace

(yes i know its hard to make peace with ppl who have nukes... but... i dunno... im only 17- i dont have the answers. if i did- i'd be president. hehe)

[ 09. January 2003, 21:33: Message edited by: SpArKiE ]


And wherever you've gone and wherever we might go. It don't seem fair. Today just disappeared.

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poiaholic22


member


Total posts: 531
Posted:Maybe we should call up the post where you tried to call Dom out just because you thought you had a point he couldn't counter.Or the time you called Jim out rather than ignore his .......

No Ray, you are the pot calling the kettle black.If I'm not mistaken you called me out.If you don't like what I have to say then ignore me.Otherwise maybe you should grow up too.


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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Every time you wake up in the morning you are given a new chance to make yourself better than you were the day before.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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primative_toys


happy hunting
Location: Brisnyland

Total posts: 228
Posted:seen on a sticker on a london trash can, and to quote "bush is another word for cunt" end quote...

my two cents
myth mitch


regret nothing, learn everything

fire_light_movement

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:ehh what to the English know about bumper stickers?? I mean the drive on the wrong side of the road for petes sake!!!

funny sticker though


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:Hello everyone.
Wow, same old discussion going on, what a surprise

Anyway, a thought. Being something of a tourist at the moment I've been to a couple of museums lately. Once again it struck me that a large part of a country's national museum is set aside to war, and to how completely awful, dreadful and wasteful it is. Pictures of dead bodies piled up, tales of slow death and lost loved ones, lives destroyed and homes obliterated. Body counts pile up into disturbing numbers. Just about everyone knows how awful war is.

But we still have wars. So it occurs to me that people know war is wrong, but fail to apply that thinking to this time and this situation. The thinking may be that past wars were horrible, but this one will be different with our smart weapons and low casualty counts. This is, of course, complete and utter bollocks. Destruction and war go hand in hand, and that destruction isn't just some impersonal 'army' or building, it's humans and lives that are being destroyed.

So, all of you, when you see the carpet bombing of Iraq to reduce Saddam's 'defences', make an effort to actually see what is actually happening before your eyes and glorified on TV: people are being murdered. Bodies, just like yours, are being torn into peices. Skin is torn and blood flows. Immense pain beyond your imagination is being felt for a second, or a long life time. Minds are reduced to nothing and universes are extinguished in an instant. And these are no evil people all intent on murdering Westerners in their sleep, civialian or soldier they are all humans just like you and me.

Then think about how you can work to stop that happening in the future because that's the only way this can stop, but us making our voices heard in politics, journalism and in the street. War has no place in our world, and we could do away with it if 6 billion people had a big mental shift tomorrow. However this is unlikely, but you can start by making the shift yourself and helping other make the shift.

And pacifism and the road to peace applies to everything, from international wars, to how you talk to other people in person and discussion boards. Apply peace to your every day, and hopefully the people and the world around you will begin to accept peace as the true answer.

Peace and love to all.


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dromepixie


dromepixie

veteran
Location: Florida

Total posts: 1463
Posted:Hear every word uttered as if it were spoken by a loving friend with a smile upon their face.
Then, just maybe, will you hear what the soul is really trying to say.

DOM!

you usually have a smile on yer face... makes it that much easier for you to show us this...!
(edit) Keep shining! I hope your travels show you what you would like to see!

love and hugs,
drome

[ 11. January 2003, 16:17: Message edited by: dromepixie ]


JUGGLEwithyourmind!

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:It's like ray wants us to rain praise apon him for being such a humanitarian and such a brave soldier. He trolls for this attention constantly and explodes into flameing when he receives anything contrary.

WW2 is really the only war I can think of that I thank people involved for fighting it to protect a greater good. I believe this is because ww2 was truely the work of a madman and not the result of corporations trying to make money because of their overproduction problems.

Do you honestly think the turn out of korea or ww1 or vietnam or desert storm effected our freedome at at all?

" It was the way we had over here of living with ourselves. We'd cut them in half with a machine gun and give them a bandaid. It was a lie, and the more I saw of them, the more I hated lies. " ( Captain Willard )


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Itsgottab


member
Location: NZ

Total posts: 244
Posted:ray while the u.s.a. does appear to give food aid, you must ask the question why does it have to give food when these countries are exporting far more than they would need to feed their own people, the i.m.f. demands the money from these sales. the karma that will eventually come back to america is scary.

on the bbc world service yesterday they had a report on the car show in detroit, u.s.a.(sp?) the industry guy interveiwed said the trends for this year are for larger more powerful cars/vechiles, this means burning burning more gas by the everyday american, while the u.s. government may not represent those of you here from the u.s. it would seem it does represent a good number of its citizens, and as for the already exsiting number of large powered cars on your roads doing 60km on the way to work in the morning, what is the need?. Mr bush and friends seem to be alittle more aware of the realities of the situation, oil for the poeple thats what they are demanding and like any good government would, the bush administration are staisfying the people.


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Kev


member
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland

Total posts: 83
Posted:Raymund, I don't doubt that soldiers stationed all over the world do good things for the communities around them. But if they are ordered to war with Iraq tommorow, they will go. This is not because they are bad people, but because their government says so. Please don't think that you are protecting me or anyone else though; hundreds of millions of people like me have no faith in what you are fighting for. We do not percieve any threat. I would truly like to know what you think you are defnding us from? Seriously, can you answer that?

Personally, I believe that the US is in it for oil money, and I think that the course of time will prove me right. But, if you have any other more noble reason I would be most interested to hear it.


- Honk if you love peace and quiet!

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Itsgottab


member
Location: NZ

Total posts: 244
Posted:from the possiblity of large scale terroist attacks, if iraq has nasty weapons and if they sell them to nasty people who don`t like you or your friends. if they the terroists do something very bad the world we have come to know and enjoy will not be a more enjoyable place, a resulting "war zone" even if limited to as small section of america or england/eruope will be very unplesant. this is an "if" situation, but by killing two birds, eliminating "threat" and aquiring a nice oil supply, with the one stone wouldn`t you at least look very closly at the possiblity.

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:I dont want your pitty nor your praise. Just you to understand that there is more in this world than CNN, BBC or anyone that looks at this from the outside sees.

I have been accused of not being willing to look at things through others eyes, when will you start trying to look at things throw mine?

Everyones mind is closed to something, Dom, while a good man, refuses to look at things from my perspective. It is not all his fault, his mind does not work like mine and he is not any worse nor better than I for it.

Kev, ask yourself this question... If a man had a loaded gun, would I walk up and hit him in the face?

Most would say no, but I will let you decide.

Now, the military is the man with the loaded gun, you (dont read into this too much) represent anybody who would want to do harm to America. If they see a man with a gun, I doubt that they will walk up and hit him. Granted there are some idiots out there that will still hit him but not too many.

I protect you, just by being there. Thats the beauty of it. I dont actually have to jump in front of a bullet for you, I just have to be there ready to.

Does that explain things? If not I will come up with another analogy.

A little boy was walking along the beach at low tide and was throwing starfish back in the water. His grandmother came up to him and asked him what he was doing. The little boy smiled and said that he was help the starfish. The grandmother laughed and told him that there were way to many starfish and way to many miles of ocean to make a difference. The little boy picked up another starfish and threw it in the watter and told his grandmother that he made a difference for that one!

We may not have made a difference for the whole world during those wars adn conflicts, but if we made one persons life better, I think we did our job. Expensive, yes but atleast someone is better because of it.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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poiaholic22


member


Total posts: 531
Posted:If memory serves me correctly I have seen your perspective on average.The only reason I post here is so you can see mine.I read a lot of these posts and try to use them to expand my own mental being and I must say that I know in some cases I am wrong.But I use your and a lot of the other's opinions to try to make sense of some things.

I also liked the starfish analogy but in the process of trying to help one you can hurt many others.


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poiaholic22


member


Total posts: 531
Posted:By the way the "won't attempt to see through other people's eyes" comment was made as an observation.I was hoping you would have thought about it and recognized the way you have attacked some people on past threads for just disagreeing with you and not done that on this one.We are all entitled to our opinion but very often you come across as we are all wrong and the only way to be right is to agree with you.

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:Ray,
I admire you for your passion for your country and your fellow man. I admire the path that you have chosen in this lifetime, it is one that requires strength of character, convicton, and a great belief in ones self. I will never attack you for being brave and facing what a lot of people would run from. Nor will I attack you for voicing your opinion, it is refreshing to see someone stand up for what they believe in.
I do not have an opinion on this 'war' other than I do not want to see anyone get hurt...thats against MY beliefs. I understand that this is inevitable as people have already died, so I will send healing. I will ask angels of guidance to be the human race right now as we enter such a traumatic stage in this time.
I hope we can aviod war,I really do.
May everyone who reads this feel peace...
Love to you all


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Poiaholic22, you are absolutly right, I have been a complete ass in the past, and that is something that I am trying to undo. I have tried to see things through others eyes, and I still dont see how things would be accomplished.

Peace is a great thing, and something to be obtained. I dont think that it will ever happen. I dont blame anyone person or group of people, I just dont think that if man exists that there will be peace on Earth.

Valura, I thank you for your words.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Kev


member
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland

Total posts: 83
Posted:Raymund, nice explanation. I still don't see the threat and I may not believe in what you do, but I see that you do believe and that you have a good heart, so I wish you best of luck and safe keeping.

GWB: regarding Iraq selling nasty weapons, America sells nasty weapons all the time. Maybe the rest of the world should bomb you, just in case.


- Honk if you love peace and quiet!

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nigglebyleaf


member
Location: Somerset

Total posts: 18
Posted:we all have to try in any way we can to not let these uniformed males ruin our world for profit. it is a dangerous game all these people play, the play it together and they want us all to feel small but we cannot let that happen? can we

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Nigglebyleaf... what are you talking about?

Sorry but that post made no sence to me, can you rephrase please?


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Tika


member
Location: BC, Canada

Total posts: 106
Posted:If anyone is interested you should really reada book called "Stupid white men.. and other excuses for the state of the nation by Michael Moore". It was a #1 bestseller in the New York Times.
It gives an interesting perspective on the state of the American people and government as writen through a american view point. Definately an eye-opener in fact in this book was were I first heard of the rigged Gore/Bush election.
You should also check out "Bowling for Columbine by Michael Moore". It a documentary that examines the gun crazy attitude in the U.S.


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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Hmm That second book sounds a bit interesting, but thats a whole new topic of debate hehe

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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poiaholic22


member


Total posts: 531
Posted:Hey dude not trying to be a dick but wouldn't want you to look all over for a book that doesn't exist.Bowling for Columbine is a movie and I have heard nothing but good things about it.Don't let the title sway your opinion of it.



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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:I really want to see Bowling for Columbine, it has been widely advertised but is only showing at a couple of theatres. I really want to see the scene with Charlton Heston. Will let you know what is like after seeing it.

It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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primative_toys


happy hunting
Location: Brisnyland

Total posts: 228
Posted:im currently in new york and its a pretty long stone throw form my neck of da woods,,., the atmosphere here is still thick with hate terror pride and a need for revenge/redemption? i dont know but i hope anyone else in the area can smell it... but the attitude is still "if i was given the opurtunity i would ride the fuckin a-bomb right into saddams, i mean mr li's, i mean bin laden ass..." get the picture...
however my opinion is controled mayhem and a as long as its not happenin to me approach wont do anymore... this needs to be settled other wise our three quater generation will no longer be shielded from the terror which is war... that is something i will go great distances to see that me children do not no what the word war means...

for the term war has no meaning and no relavence in todays 1st world society....

mythmitch


regret nothing, learn everything

fire_light_movement

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:hot damn, I got the wrong title.... anyhow I went past the book store here on base and they didnt have it so I ordered it, and I put down The Road to Columbine crap I will have to change that tomorrow. Ohh well

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted:Trying not to stay off topic too much, but Bowling for Columbine is fantastic.
It wasn't shown much around here either - I had to drive 30 miles to the nearest cinema that was showing it.

The Charlton Heston scene is just bizarre, Moore plays out the rope and Heston just hangs himself, with pretty much no help. To paraphrase heston: America has a higher rate of gun related crime because we have a bloodier history - it's in our background. Obviously Britain, China, Russia, *reels off list of countries* have bloodier histories, but that's still why we have more gun related crime than them.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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poiaholic22


member


Total posts: 531
Posted:I don't mean to start another argument (and maybe I should be starting a new topic) but guns are not the problem.People are the problem.You could take gun rights away and people would still find a way to kill each other because it's about having that sense of power.

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jim bombadil


member
Location: bristol

Total posts: 142
Posted:no they wouldn't

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:quote:I don't mean to start another argument (and maybe I should be starting a new topic) but guns are not the problem. People are the problem. You could take gun rights away and people would still find a way to kill each other because it's about having that sense of power.Yeah, but it's a hell of a lot easier if ya have a gun under ya bed. Like in oz, the youth suicide rate (which was the highest in the world at the time) has really declined since they tightened up on guns. Mainly, because it makes it a lot more difficult to top-ya-self if ya have to go and try a find a gun. Think about it.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Tika


member
Location: BC, Canada

Total posts: 106
Posted:Well in Canada we are a gun carrying nation like the US but we have no where near the amount of gun-related death they do in US. That's what is so cool about the movie it get deeper to the problem then "guns don't kill, people do".

Ray I think it was mentioned before but Bowling for Columbine is a movie not a book.

Back to say no to war...
There is a big protest that is going to happen Jan. 18 world-wide opposing the war. I had to really search to find where it is in my area but I found a site for the protest in Washington.
http://www.internationalanswer.org/index.html
br>
And if anyone from Vancouver is intested...
Jan. 18, 2003 - Rally and March: No War on Iraq SATURDAY JANUARY 18, 1PM, LIBRARY SQUARE, 530 W. GEORGIA STREET, VANCOUVER: International Day of Action, No War on Iraq.
1 pm March for Peace; gathering a Library square.
2 pm Rally at Art Gallery; with speakers on - Why oppose the war on Iraq -The Palestinian situation -Keep Canada out of the war
3 pm Canadian Peace Team. Immediately following the rally, four Vancouver women who have recently returned from from Iraq will give a report of their trip.( location to be announced). Peace and Justice in the Middle East. Organized By the Nov 17th Peace Coalition

I'll post this in the other Iraq topic..


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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:well I will never get to read the damn book now will I?

I guess that just showed my attention to detail. hehe


To the gun thing... there are some very simple ways to kill people without guns. I am not going to name them, but they are so simple most people dont think about them.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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