jim bombadil


member
Location: bristol

Total posts: 142
Posted:In the city of Bristol here in England we experienced the worst police violence in over 150 years at the protests last thursday. Many people suffered injurys from Battons and dog bites after being penned in by the police. Has anyone else had similar experiences?

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DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin, Ireland

Total posts: 2617
Posted:Yip yip. Reclaim the streets was a spectacle. Police removing they're id numbers from the their uniforms, going mad and then not one officer being able to identify who they thought were using excessive force afterwards. Same shit different place.

Reclaim the streets


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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_Stix_


_Stix_

Pooh-Bah
Location: la-la land

Total posts: 2419
Posted:second the RTS thang - not fun being stuck between piss head f*cked on special brew and pigs f*cked on a power trip.. kinda scarey for a little pixie like me..

I honour you as an aspect of myself..

You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..

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DaiTenshi


member
Location: Stillwater, OK

Total posts: 104
Posted:Considering that protestors in NY had the gal and sheer stupidity to mace the cops last weekend I've begun to care much less.

A cop is a civil servant, really! He's only there to make sure you don't go into this part of the street (makes hand gesture) so that normal traffic can get by. It's not like the boys in blue (don't know what color bobbies wear, I'm completely color blind ) started this war or have the power to stop it. When I see interviews with protestors where they're shouting at the cops and harassing them to no end as if the whole war was their fault..... well I really don't care if they get angry.

No one likes being called a pig, no one likes being called popo, no one likes being called a dohnut receptical. Keep treating people like crap and your bound to get some of it thrown back in your face.

Also, Bombadil, got a link to the story, am interested in reading it.

edit: in no way am I saying that those hurt in Bristol deserved it as I really have no clue what happened (like I said, link me) but frankly, what I've seen from numerous protestors around the world in regards to their treatment of the police has been anything but worthy of respect and consideration.


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DaiTenshi


member
Location: Stillwater, OK

Total posts: 104
Posted:Hmmmm, just read the RTS thing, nasty.

Sorry for those hospitalized.

I take it with a grain of salt though considering the article is in a publication called "The Insurgent"

Still can't argue with video of cops pulling their badges and numbers of folks hospitalized, sucky


No one knows me like I do.

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jim bombadil


member
Location: bristol

Total posts: 142
Posted:police beating heres a link

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alien_oddity


alien_oddity

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: in the trees

Total posts: 7193
Posted:----------------------BUMP---------------------------

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/6429569.stm


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astar2


member


Total posts: 37
Posted:A lot of cops are just criminals on the right side of the law. If you ever have been beaten for no reason by cops, maybe you would see cops as a little more then just someone who tells you what part of the street to go on.

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Mr_Joe
BRONZE Member since Aug 2008

Mr_Joe

Part-time genius
Location: , Netherlands

Total posts: 59
Posted:Equally if you had ever been a police officer you might not see people hurling abuse at 'pigs' as friendly hippies. No-one's going to get anywhere in this kind of debate without a little sympathy and respect.

Joe x


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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: ravehead


----------------------BUMP---------------------------

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/6429569.stm



Oh you Brits are so cute. That's not Police brutality! Cuts and bruises! C'mon. Buck up.

It ain't police brutality unless the cops reload.

wink frown


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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:Hooray something I can dig my claws into again wink

I love how people who fight with the police, get hurt, and then complain of police brutality. Yes some officers use strong arm techniques and quite possibly go too far, but you really have to look at it from their side before you start complaining that they hurt your feelings by making you lay down in the dirt. They deal with the worst of the worst of human society constantly through their daily duties. They don't know if you're armed, they don't know how combative you are, can you really blame them for being protective of themselves?

During a riot or protest scenario, mob mentality can grossly out of hand extremely quickly. I haven't seen a completely innocent person, who is following the orders given to the police be hurt. I have however seen people who think they're being sly, and passively protesting by "not listening" be forced to comply, and I don't have any pity for them.

Note: some people may seem to think that standing with your hands in your pocket is a submissive posture, but to a cop it's screaming weapon


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Spanner
BRONZE Member since Feb 2003

Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere..., ...

Total posts: 2790
Posted: Written by: NYC



Oh you Brits are so cute. That's not Police brutality! Cuts and bruises! C'mon. Buck up.



It ain't police brutality unless the cops reload.

wink frown





 Written by: Wikipedia

See also

* Jean-Charles de Menezes







frown



 Written by: Lurch

They don't know if you're armed, they don't know how combative you are, can you really blame them for being protective of themselves?





 Written by: Lurch

During a riot or protest scenario, mob mentality can grossly out of hand extremely quickly.





When there's already too many examples of police mob mentality getting grossly out of hand extremely quickly, I can't blame civilians for being protective of themselves frown



I've seen the CCTV footage and PC Mulhall's statement doesn't seem to include much of what can be seen on it.

Only approved methods of restraints must be used and this one seemed vastly out of proportion to Toni Comer's resistance, especially if she was having an epileptic fit at the time: I've seen a friend fitting as a result of an attack and he was completely unable to defend himself.

Handling her with her trousers around her ankles is also surely degrading enough to violate the Human Rights Act.



I'm very glad that she feels able to pursue this complaint and that the incident will be investigated.

She did commit a crime but no sentence includes waiving the right to ask the police to justify their actions.


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:So an aggressive drunk gets thrown out of a nightclub, takes her frustration out on a car and then has to learn the *don't fight with the police* lesson the hard way ( they always win ) I wonder what part of "you're under arrest" she didn't understand and just how she ended up dragging that cop down the stairs, it looks like he had one handcuff on when she tried to make a run for it.

Don't British police carry tasers ?


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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:I'm not saying you should just blindly trust everything the police say. But you shouldn't fight them. Like stout said, you'll lose. If you have a problem with how they're doing something, there is a time and place to voice that complaint, while they're trying to figure out the situation, or even detain you is *not* the proper time to scream, "YOU HAVE NO RIGHT!" and try to run away. That is only going to cause you more pain.

Of course you have the right to ask for justification, but the police have a right to protect themselves against seemingly violent, and abusive suspects, and it is their duty to restrain you. Would you prefer it if they never arrested anyone? Would you want them to watch someone kill a person, and then say 'well he's too dangerous for us to arrest him, someone might get hurt'?

And yes, police can and do succumb to mob mentality as well, however their default mindset tends to be more of an 'arrest everyone, we'll sort it out later.' If you're fighting being arrested, they'll fight back. If you're not complying, they'll fight back. Their objective is to STOP whatever is going on, not provoke it further. When protests turn to riots, it is usually at least partially the fault of the law enforcement, I'll admit that, they need better training with those situations. But the police are not the people burning cars, looting stores, and doing the countless other illegal and violent things that go on during riots. Like I said before, comply, and 99 times out of a hundred you'll come out of it without a scratch on you. Act like a jackass and they'll do the same, you need to give them respect before they'll give you any.


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alien_oddity


alien_oddity

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: in the trees

Total posts: 7193
Posted:personally i think she deserved it, DON'T jupm down my throat for saying that please!!!!

drunk women are 99% worse than drunk men *fact*

they use their sexuality to thier advantage, and in this case also using the race card.

if it had have been a male nothing would have been said, but as she is an asian female all hell breaks loose.

i do not condone police violence A.C.A.B. and all that, but my question is..........WHY not gas the dappy moose??

a dead arm is nothing to a drunk,it more than likely makes them more violent. C.S. gas in the face is enough to make anyone reel in pain and back off.

ali g's quote "is it cos i is black" seems to be the way things are going at the moment, in my view it is NOT because she is not white that she took a beating it was because she was drunk, out of order and in general being a cow.


don't get me started on mob mentality within the police, last summer i was at a free party and the police stormed it, battering 7 bells out of anyone, women and young kids included. their excuse "it was a training excersise for football controll. (tossers)


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Spanner
BRONZE Member since Feb 2003

Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere..., ...

Total posts: 2790
Posted: Written by: Stout



I wonder what part of "you're under arrest" she didn't understand







It seems you must have access to that CCTV footage with sound, which doesn't to be available to the rest of us, otherwise you wouldn't know that had been said.

Have you got a link for that? smile



 Written by: Lurch



I'm not saying you should just blindly trust everything the police say. But you shouldn't fight them. Like stout said, you'll lose. If you have a problem with how they're doing something, there is a time and place to voice that complaint, while they're trying to figure out the situation, or even detain you is *not* the proper time to scream, "YOU HAVE NO RIGHT!" and try to run away. That is only going to cause you more pain.







It's human nature to try to shield yourself from physical force, whether "provoked" or not.

When that force is clearly past reasonable, or even takes on another form such as sexual assault or rape as has been known, I'd advise anyone to try and protect themselves.



 Written by: Lurch

Would you prefer it if they never arrested anyone? Would you want them to watch someone kill a person, and then say 'well he's too dangerous for us to arrest him, someone might get hurt'?







It shouldn't be a case of all or nothing: I'd just like to see them use the correct techniques to do so.

It's human nature to protect yourself but the difference with police officers is that another part of that training covers not "biting the bait".

If a police can't - or won't - regard their training as any more than an irrelevant formality, they're in the wrong job.



 Written by: ravehead



drunk women are 99% worse than drunk men *fact*







That's a coincidence - I've also heard 99% statistics are made up on the spot. *FACT*.



 Written by: ravehead



they use their sexuality to thier advantage, and in this case also using the race card.



if it had have been a male nothing would have been said, but as she is an asian female all hell breaks loose.







I haven't seen or heard anything from anyone which suggests that she is using her sexuality or race to her advantage.

In fact, I haven't even been able to find anything which suggests she is Asian rather than any other ethnic minority, or any information about her sexual behaviour or persuasion, other than that she happens to be mixed race and female.

Like Stout, you seem to be privy to evidence not easily available to the rest of the public.

Care to share it with us? smile



 Written by: ravehead

i do not condone police violence A.C.A.B. and all that, but my question is..........WHY not gas the dappy moose??







Because gassing people of ethnic minority went out with the 40s, perchance?


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Spanner...my comment was based on the commentary that that was voiced over the cctv clip. The anchor says something like "trying to arrest" when talking about the pair on the top of the stairs.. Was he or wasn't he trying to arrest her ?

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:It is human nature to try and protect yourself, but protecting yourself from blows, resisting, and fighting back are all different things. I'm not saying that officers don't cross the lines sometimes, I'm merely trying to defend the entire group from being typecast as violent 'pigs' who beat up on innocent civilians without provocation.

I agree that police officers need more, and better training. It's actually improved quite a bit in the past few decades. But the same people who are crying for better training, are by in large the ones who're refusing to pay the money to get them trained.


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Icarus
GOLD Member since Sep 2003

member
Location: , Australia

Total posts: 165
Posted:I do see both sides of this argument (as usual rolleyes) I think some of the problems stem from the fact that police and civilians see themselves as on very different sides... that there are sides at all.

I have seen friends who would normally be the most understanding, caring people, call a 20-something yr old man a pig just because he was wearing a uniform. (incidentally, the policeman had just witnessed a horrific crash where three people died and had to be cut out of a car).

And I have seen cops use force before a word was even said to try to understand what was going on.

And don't even get me started on Palm Island...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_Island,_Queensland#2004_death_in_custody_controversy_and_riot

Wiki simplifies it a lot. If you are interested then any search on Palm Island riot/murder/police will come up with a whole bunch of articles.

Police have pressure from all sides. Their bosses, their colleagues. They see some horrible shite. I do think they are made to feel alienated as soon as they put on that uniform.

However criminals aren't just born either. And most people are just trying to get by.

I understand how the sides evolved. I even understand the need for sides.

I guess it comes down to power. It is the same (sorta) as when a child is abused by a parent/church leader/teacher. They are in a position of power, and they abused it. It makes it ten times worse.

I wish there was more understanding from both sides.

frown


... simplify ...

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:There is probably a lot more understanding on the LEO side than you would think. I'm not going to pretend that the police can't/don't abuse their power at times, but it seems to be particularly difficult for people to put themselves in the officers shoes. They're human too, and we're all guilty of being judgemental at times, and making mistakes. I'm not saying it's right, but if you walk like a duck, talk like a duck, look like a duck, and are hanging out with other ducks... well you're probably a duck. Officers don't get into the profession because they want to control people. Those that do are generally weeded out quickly. Most of them genuinely want to help people.

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: ravehead


personally i think she deserved it, DON'T jupm down my throat for saying that please!!!!

drunk women are 99% worse than drunk men *fact*




Why do I insist on participating in conversations when folks are making such ludicrous statements?

I won't. biggrin

But Lurch, point well taken about 'crying wolf' for police brutality. Fortunately, in most cases, many people who fight with police and then claim brutality are not supported by subsequent legal claims. In most cases.

There was an amazing case in Los Angeles a few years back. It was the biggest payout in LAPD history as the officers were found guilty of some very serious charges. Unfortunately, it was during the whole OJ trial so, of course, it got no TV coverage at all.

Grrrrr the media bugs me sometimes.


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astar2


member


Total posts: 37
Posted:Ive seen cops be pretty rough with my friends who are homeless, as a matter of routine. yes some of them are rowdy, but the majority of them are used to police brutality, and are as cooperative and non threatining as possible.

i got roughed up myself in ottawa by the city police, although I wouldn't call it a beating. But they said "we can make it a lot worse for you" and likened themselves to pitbulls. Perhaps I pissed them off when I mentioned that they just banned pitbulls in ontario.

if cops want to have cooperative people, perhaps they should do something about the few officers in every force who think sheer intimidation is the only way to get things done. People react a lot more defensivly and desperatly when they feel threatened. Cops react that way, and so do civilians.


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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:Just remember that cops are supposed to be bull headed, they're bred that way. As much as you'd probably like it when it's directed at you, cops are *not* supposed to back down from anyone. They're trained to be the dominate one in any confrontation/conversation, it has to be like that or they will lose the majority of their influence. Could you imagine if police officers would bend over backwards to make you happy, or back off as soon as you seemed upset?

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astar2


member


Total posts: 37
Posted:well they dragged me by my hair.. im pretty sure it was entirely unncesary. Especially when I wasn't resisting in any way. Good thing I was to drunk to feel any real pain.

that's ottawa cops though, their gig is to chase everyone the hell out of ottawa to make the city seem picture perfect.


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alien_oddity


alien_oddity

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: in the trees

Total posts: 7193
Posted:A.C.A.B!!!!


BABYLON will ALWAYS out power people with views other than the "norm"

smash them down, overpowrer them and use the media to portray them as mindless criminals. this has been going on since the battle of beanfields and will continue to go on while people shy away from the fact that we are told what to do, how to behave, what we should do to provide!!!!


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kash
GOLD Member since May 2006

kash

Dangerous cynic
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 166
Posted:There are always 2 sides to this sort of thing. Police are "just doing their job" a lot of the time they are being reasonable or simply following orders, they are also human and just as capable of losing their cool and getting carried away as everyone else, they make mistakes and we can't pretend they don't. Equally, anyone who is under the influence of alcohol or drugs has impaired judgement and is likely to say or do things that they wouldn't otherwise, and misinterpret the sutuation in the aftermath. A lively but harmless protest can turn nasty pretty quickly, and it wouldn't be unreasonable for the police to try and prevent this by dispersing people while they were still managable.

I encountered this issue in Bristol myself a couple of years back, I had been on a march, a very peaceful, friendly upbeat kind of affair, the police were fine, the protesters were friendly, towards each other *and* the police who were smiling and chatty. My friends and I decided to go home at about 8pm, as we felt we had done our bit, and didn't want to be around when undesirables started coming out of the pubs and "joining in".
Another friend of mine stayed behind to join a candlelit vigil in a park, everyone was sitting on the grass, it was calm and pretty quiet. As I was leaving the police were obviously deciding it was time to move people on, I saw 4 mounted police officers in full riot gear ride their horses straight at the *seated* protestors. The next day I saw the friend I had left behind, he had been badly beaten by a police officer in the fray that followed. Now this guy wouldn't hurt a fly, wouldn't even speak badly of the police officer. He wasn't resisting arrest (he wasn't being arrested), he wasn't doing or saying anything threatening, he wasn't drunk, he had actually held his hands up to the policeman and told him that he meant no harm. He was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. Now I'm not going to say that noone at that protest was causing trouble, but that kind of force directed at that person, was completely unnecessary.


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