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Mistress Aurora


Mistress Aurora

Hot Schtuff
Location: Stillwater,OK/Wichita Falls,TX

Total posts: 1032
Posted:Here's the Lookie!

I found this very interesting.Hope you do to.

I thought the French were sorta hiding the reason why they were against joining the US.My friend who is in the air force sent this to me.




RISK: Do not follow the common path; Go where there is no path and leave a trail.

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:This looks like yet more childish tantrums by a government miffed that everyone didn't do exactly as they were told. There's no evidence, only conjecture.

In fact the article says to me that the US was annoyed that a French oil company should have such an advantage in Iraq. So handily up pops a war that nullifies the contracts, which are then reassigned by a US instated and backed government that could be easily be pressured to give lucrative contracts to US companies.

Vive la France!


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DaiTenshi


member
Location: Stillwater, OK

Total posts: 104
Posted:Regardless of who is or is not "throwing a tantrum", France was blockading UN action for "personal" (sounds odd to equate personal with a nation) gains.

Perhaps if France had truly given a care about peace they would have worked out something a bit more easonable, and obviously they don't care about cvillian casualties seeing as they were perfectly happy dealing with Saddam: a man perfectly happy killing his civillians.


No one knows me like I do.

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:And of course we all know the US never puts it's own interests before everyone elses, never does business with countries with dodgy human rights or dictatorships and never uses it's UN powers for personal gain.

Wake up.

It's still just conjecture from a bitter politician. could it also have been that France and Russia (it wasn't just France threatening veto against the US you know!) and other countries with more diplomatic stratagies realised that going against international law and world opinion was a bad thing? That US arrogance could dramatically throw the world into chaos? That you can't just cry war and unleach the hounds? In all, maybe they were just more intelligent that the US government.

You have to realise this: The US government is an international laughing stock. No joke, I've heard people in the street laugh at your government over the french fries thing. US politicians currently have little respect outside of the US. Shouldn't you be wondering if maybe they've got a point?


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Mistress Aurora


Mistress Aurora

Hot Schtuff
Location: Stillwater,OK/Wichita Falls,TX

Total posts: 1032
Posted:Ok first off I too think the Liberty Fries thing is stupid.That was only done by a few resteraunts and everybody still calls them French Fries.

quote:That you can't just cry war and unleach the hounds? In all, maybe they were just more intelligent that the US government.
Maybe...The French were just self interested.All countries are self interested.Not just the US.For thousands of years people and the countries they run have been self interested.

Maybe also the reason the French and others chose not to get involved is because there are just a bunch of hippies living over there.Would they rather let an evil leader like Saddam get away with killing his own people for the sake of his own "self interests"?Also to make chemical and biological weapons to use on other countries.Just think if the US hadn't stepped in and Saddam was still getting away with manufacturing them.




RISK: Do not follow the common path; Go where there is no path and leave a trail.

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lord ender


member
Location: AMERICA

Total posts: 6
Posted:We'll we didn't just "cry war and unleach the hounds". Several different tactics were tried first and found to be ineffective. That is why war was initiated against Saddam. It was a last resort that we were willing to take. The French however were not, they would rather talk around the issue for eternity there comes a time when talking is no longer a option and something else must be tried.

Violence is the last resort of the incompetent. Doesn't mean it's not damn effective sometimes.

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:personaly I think the countries opposed to the war were just plain scarred. Can you blame them? the USA and Britain (main supporters) are isolated by an OCEAN. That means they bad guys can't walk on over. Still though, you cannot deny that Saddam killed hundreds of thousands of his people. (remember Iraq is a countrie full of tribal divisions, and the tribes that opposed him the most got wiped out. Doesn't sound very nice to me.

Sure, our government and most of our poeple in the usa are self-centered. Most of us care mostly about our lifestyle. But we are also willing to go and die so the people of iraq can be free.

"it's all about the oil" I know it tends to sound lie that, especial whne the news is talking about the iraq war, and in the same breath mentions the price of oil today, then goes back to talking about the war. But the usa only gets a very small amount of oil from iraq (like well under 5% is the last statistic I saw)

And the american people, as a whole, belive we are liberating the iraq people rather than just getting cheap oil. In fact, freeing the iraq people is one of the main things that allowed the president to convince the usa that this needed to be done. We are as against going over there for cheap oil as the arab world is. Except the Arab world doesn't know that.

So don't call us self centered when we are sending our boys over there to die for Iraq's freedom, while France is sitting back waiting for it to all be over so they can go in and make money off the spoils. (I just saw that news report today, france is petitioning to be the major player in the iraq rebuilding plan, translation: they want us to do all the work, and then THEY get all the money for rebuilding (and get the oil) Yes, there are some american companies who will make money, but a lot of that money will be coming from the USA government. Bush just aproved 43 million in fedral money to pay companies that will be going over there to rebuild the infrastructure.


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:i'm only making one comment... which is that even the government of the US doensn'think iraq's freedom will result from this war.

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Dio


Dio

HoP Mechanical Engineer
Location: OK, USA

Total posts: 729
Posted:True true... their freedom will result from the new government we help them build for themselves.

What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:It's not gonna happen unless a miracle occurs, and everyone at the top knows it. And even if democracy were to occur, the US would fight it because it would be likley to become an anti-american democracy. but not every coup the US tries works, after all. Guess we should all just pray for a miracle *grins*

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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DaiTenshi


member
Location: Stillwater, OK

Total posts: 104
Posted:So, Kyrian, the US is only capable of f-----g things up?

Never done a damn thing right have we. Guess it's just time to quit.

It's fairly obvious that we're just a greedy, fat, worthless, money grubbing, war mongerying, bully that is absolutly nothing like every other nation on earth. So, due to the stunning realization that the rest of the world is right, we're just gonna withdraw from EVERYTHING!

That's it! We quit! Fin!

No more foreign aid, no more immigrants, no more trade, no more student exchanges, no more traveling abroad (hell we'll even scrap our international airports and donate the rubble to Africa or something), no more "best foreign film" category at the Oscars..... sicne we're so irreversably f----d up and beyond doing a thing right, we MUST withdraw from the world and just let the perfect, brilliant, utterly without flaw, selfless, saintly, and all-together superior human beings in every other nation on earth live in perfect harmony without our corrupting inffluence.

Would that make you happy Kyrian? Would it?


No one knows me like I do.

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ivan..


ivan..

member
Location: Halifax, NS

Total posts: 165
Posted:quote:Originally posted by DaiTenshi:

No more foreign aid, no more immigrants, no more trade, no more student exchanges, no more traveling abroad , no more "best foreign film" category at the Oscars.....
Would that make you happy Kyrian? Would it? sometimes i wonder about the maturity of the "all or nothing" argument .. and it would be interesting to see what would happen if a country like tha USA decided to limit itself to within it's borders .. would other countries suffer? in the short term.. probably but in the long term we'd get by .. much of what Canada exports would no longer be exported and in the long run that would benefit our nation .. the water/wood/power/grain/oil/natural gas .. would stay in canada and the surplus would mean lower cost for canadaians,

but the argument is not about taking ones ball and going home .. it's about honesty , intergrity, and following the spirit of the agreement ...

any member of the UN who commits an act of war without the backing of the UN is effectivly saying " To hell with the UN we know better " it's showing a complete lack of disrespect for the agreement .. therefore going back on it's word.

the reality,
there are other nations in the word that have been oppressing their people much longer than Iraq... but they are poor countries ..and because they are poor countries there is no "coalition" rushing in to help them .....

the US is responsible for Saddams army,having supplied IRaq with more than half of the weapons currently being used against the invading forces

ther are other nations with far more dangerous weapons of mass destruction than Iraq, and far more organised armies than the iraquis military.. but the us has decided to ruch in and set the oilfeilds free ( i mean the people )

....
i don't accuse the the US of anything too horrible other than thinly veiled greed .. but to jump up and down and scream at the french for the same reason is just hypocrisy at it's most juvenile ....
...
and finally
i have enjoyed the company of many members of the USA and often enjoyed entertainment that comes up from the south... Canada and the US have a good working relationship supporting each other as often as possible...
but...
i will not bend to the "you are either with us or against us " mentality .. personally i believe that if the USA were honest about the invasion of iraq the UN wouldn't support them and this would happen anyway.. and i'm pleased that my country has shown the strength of character during this time of terrorism. Even though we don't agree we are a good neighbour .. and when it'sall over we will help whats left of Iraq become whatever countrie the Iraqi people want it to be ( hopefully not what the Coalition decides it should be)

pax ab bello
ivan


thats right i look like an albino ape that has had a bad day.. go ahead say something stupid... i dare ya !

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:just so I have a reference for my above post http://www.msnbc.com/news/889535.asp?0cb=-31e133692
br>and these are just the kurds, not including the southern iraqis he has killed (she-ite) however you spell it, from basera


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:certain French compnies have very strong financial ties to the Iraq government. not even includingthe euro thing (saddam used the euro curency heavily) The TotalFinElf company was basicaly going to rape iraq's oil fields (unless they were secretly giving "other" things back to iraq), their agrement with saddam was very one sided. That is one of the major reasons france didn't want the war. Because it would hurt these few, powerfull, french companies that do a lot of business with the saddam government.

And the UN wasn't doing a darn thing about the illeagal weapons manufacturing that saddam was is involved in. They did nothing but talk, while saddam exported as much WMD as he could sneak across the boarder. Did you hear about the empty chemical plant? Where do you think all those chemicals went to? Just wait a few days, you'll see. I'll lay down money that Saddam is going to unleash some chemical/bio weapons as soon as we close on baghdad. I hope I am wrong though.


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:I though one reason France might have opposed the war was because there is a large Arab population in that country.

Just a thought.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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poiaholic22


member


Total posts: 531
Posted:Disregard all anti-war propaganda and take in as much pro-war propaganda as your little brain can handle should be the motto for this war.

And vice versa.


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poiaholic22


member


Total posts: 531
Posted:I found this article rather interesting.Check it out,you may too.

Iraq


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poiaholic22


member


Total posts: 531
Posted:quote:Originally posted by DaiTenshi:

So, Kyrian, the US is only capable of f-----g things up?

Never done a damn thing right have we. Guess it's just time to quit.

It's fairly obvious that we're just a greedy, fat, worthless, money grubbing, war mongerying, bully that is absolutly nothing like every other nation on earth. So, due to the stunning realization that the rest of the world is right, we're just gonna withdraw from EVERYTHING!

That's it! We quit! Fin!

No more foreign aid, no more immigrants, no more trade, no more student exchanges, no more traveling abroad (hell we'll even scrap our international airports and donate the rubble to Africa or something), no more "best foreign film" category at the Oscars..... sicne we're so irreversably f----d up and beyond doing a thing right, we MUST withdraw from the world and just let the perfect, brilliant, utterly without flaw, selfless, saintly, and all-together superior human beings in every other nation on earth live in perfect harmony without our corrupting inffluence.

Would that make you happy Kyrian? Would it? If you think we are so perfect check this out. WAR, it's in our blood.

Also would it be safe to say that we aren't partially responsible for the chaos that is becoming the Middle East.I felt all warm and fuzzy just seeing this headline. Kashmir


I'm with Kyrian hoping that this doesn't end up blowing up in our faces.


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DaiTenshi


member
Location: Stillwater, OK

Total posts: 104
Posted:Poiaholic.... did I say we were perfect? Perhaps you mistook me.

I agree completely with that article, you and I are nothing but violent, war mongering baby-killers- utterly unworthy of dealing in world affairs! Hell, all we do is ruin things!

Isn't it obvious, we should just kind of build a giant wall..... yessssssssss the Great Wall of America- next human fabrication visible from space!

Sorry for the posts dripping in sarcasm, but jsut about all I've heard from the international community and the doves is really just starting to add up. Ya know, tell a kid he's stupid over and over and over and over again and.... well, he's gonna start to believe it.

So yeah, before we kill off the PRC for their vast reserves of panda bears and bamboo shoots, we'd better jsut completely isolate ourselves and slowly die off. It's the only way!

Sick and tired... we need an emotocon for that


No one knows me like I do.

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:there is also a large muslim population in russia too. And rusia boarders Iraq, thus making them suseptible to Iraqs aledged WMD. I say alegid because we have not seen any used yet, or for that matter, we haven't seen any of Saddams "banned missles" that he supposidly has. I guess we will see. In a related story, the British troops just discovered thousands of Chemical suits in basra, that got left behind by fleeing Iraq troops. Why would Iraqi trops have chemical protection suits?



we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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DaiTenshi


member
Location: Stillwater, OK

Total posts: 104
Posted:Because us bloodthirsty Americans are bound to break that whole "never use chem or bio weapons" thing we signed on for and be eeeeeeeeeevil and try to gas/germ them....... though if they believe that crap it's odd that they would elave the suits behind

No one knows me like I do.

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:To double/triple quote DaiTenshi:

So, Kyrian, the US is only capable of f-----g things up?

Never done a damn thing right have we. Guess it's just time to quit.
It's fairly obvious that we're just a greedy, fat, worthless, money grubbing, war mongerying, bully that is absolutly nothing like every other nation on earth. So, due to the stunning realization that the rest of the world is right, we're just gonna withdraw from EVERYTHING!

That's it! We quit! Fin!

No more foreign aid, no more immigrants, no more trade, no more student exchanges, no more traveling abroad (hell we'll even scrap our international airports and donate the rubble to Africa or something), no more "best foreign film" category at the Oscars..... sicne we're so irreversably f----d up and beyond doing a thing right, we MUST withdraw from the world and just let the perfect, brilliant, utterly without flaw, selfless, saintly, and all-together superior human beings in every other nation on earth live in perfect harmony without our corrupting inffluence.

Would that make you happy Kyrian? Would it?


Hey well said.

It would make me happy.

Like no more best foreign film"
Give us a break. Ya, can take that US arrogance and shove it.

And hey, aint the US military really dong a good job???

Wot a fn mess.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Salinger


member
Location: Southampton

Total posts: 382
Posted:quote:Originally posted by DaiTenshi:
Because us bloodthirsty Americans are bound to break that whole "never use chem or bio weapons" thing we signed on for and be eeeeeeeeeevil and try to gas/germ them....... though if they believe that crap it's odd that they would elave the suits behind Not like you haven't used them before though eh!
Ever heard of that little Micronesian Island called Bikini? Your government vapourised the islands of Bokonijien, Aerokojlol, Nam in that little hit too... why should you be trusted?


A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words...

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Dio


Dio

HoP Mechanical Engineer
Location: OK, USA

Total posts: 729
Posted:Here is a video clip of the protest movement in San Francisco taking place recently. I felt they deserved some support and could use a little exposure on the boards.

San Francisco Protests

San Francisco Protests (low bandwidth version)


What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

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DaiTenshi


member
Location: Stillwater, OK

Total posts: 104
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Salinger:
quote:Originally posted by DaiTenshi:
Because us bloodthirsty Americans are bound to break that whole "never use chem or bio weapons" thing we signed on for and be eeeeeeeeeevil and try to gas/germ them....... though if they believe that crap it's odd that they would elave the suits behind Not like you haven't used them before though eh!
Ever heard of that little Micronesian Island called Bikini? Your government vapourised the islands of Bokonijien, Aerokojlol, Nam in that little hit too... why should you be trusted? Uh..... cause at the time no one really knew how strong htey were. Same applies to use of nukes on Japan, Roosevelt was never informed of the lingering effects of nukes.

There is a first time for everything, if we hadn't used them I guarantee you someone else would. I certainly hope they will never be used in war again.

As for my government vaporizing islands and being all
"evil" back then, don't forget who we were fighting against. Ask any old Jewish person or any older- skratch that- any Asian not from Japan how evil the US was for preparing such weapons and you'll likely get a few funny looks and a quick brush off (at best).

Reality


No one knows me like I do.

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poiaholic22


member


Total posts: 531
Posted:quote:Originally posted by DaiTenshi:

Sorry for the posts dripping in sarcasm, but just about all I've heard from the international community and the doves is really just starting to add up. Ya know, tell a kid he's stupid over and over and over and over again and.... well, he's gonna start to believe it.Maybe you should ask yourself why they say such things.If it was only a minority of the international media and community than it could be a point worth arguing but seeing as almost every nation on the planet (allies and enemies alike) is miffed by our behavior as of recent, maybe there is some truth to what is being said.Also just because we have a coalition of 45 governments around the world supporting our gov't doesn't mean the people of these nations feel the same way.And aren't the people the ones we should be afraid of?

I may be an American but I am not a war-monger nor do I feel any good will come of this.I posted the link about Kashmir because a new concern I've seen in the news (not anything you would see in American news) is that India will adopt our spirit of pre-emptive war and declare war on Pakistan.Plus the rising fears of fighting between Turkey and the Kurds.Does anyone know what is going on in North Korea these days?And being that we have disregarded the UN why are any of these other countries gonna continue to play by the rules.We've done more damage to the UN in less than half a year than Saddam has done in the past decade.

In closing, if you feel war is the answer then that is fine.We are all entitled to our opinions.In the long run I hope you are right.

If wanting peace, yes at any cost, makes me an idiot, than so be it.


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lord ender


member
Location: AMERICA

Total posts: 6
Posted:Please you should really think long and hard befor ever using the words "at any cost". So you would have peace even if it meant horrible deaths for thousands of people. You would have peace over civilization. You would have peace over basic human rights. You would have peace over the compleat genocide of a race.
Always think a very long time befor you use those word. I think i know what you really mean but it just dosn't sound right.


Violence is the last resort of the incompetent. Doesn't mean it's not damn effective sometimes.

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poiaholic22


member


Total posts: 531
Posted:Good point. I'll bear that in mind in the future.

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