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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:I usually shy away from political debates on HoP for various reasons but I wanted to throw this one out there and see how it landed.

Please, let's keep this on this specific topic as there are so many heated emotions and feelings on both of these issues.

As the war rhetoric heats up I've been hearing more and more "We need to get Iraq back for 9/11" from co-workers, students and even people on the news.

I've always prided myself as understanding both sides of an arguement (which is why I rarely voice my own opinion.) There are valid arguements for a millitary strike on Iraq. There are valid arguements against a millitary strike on Iraq. But this "We need to get them BACK" is confusing to me.

Yes, I know that Sadam is one of MANY ruthless and murderous leaders in the world. Yes, I know that Iraq is one of the MANY countries in the world with biological and chemical weapons. Yes, I know that Iraq is one of the increasingly MANY countries in the world with radical anti-American sentiment. Yes, I understand that Iraq is one of MANY countries which could, theoretically fund terrorism in the future.

But I do not understand what role Iraq played in the 9/11 attacks. Then again, I was a bit busy that day.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Hrm, do you know what it takes to get inteligence on something in order to make a successfull air strike?

First off, a possible target must be found, then watched, then normaly it will be "painted" via laser. A tactical strike is made using either stealth or super sonic planes. That is just simplifying things to empth degree.

It is a hard business. Have you ever seen what a car looks like from space? It is a blur, buildings are a bit easyer to see. Watching someone drive into a building from space is next to impossible due to timing, atmospheric conditions and what not.

So someone has to be on the ground, this complicates things even more. You have to either find a willing person who lives there, or plant someone. Both are equally hard.

It is not stupidity, it is difficult.

You also have to understand, like you have said before, propiganda is always a factor.

Anybody can say that they hit a military tagert while those who recieved the attack say it was a childrens hospital.

It is all a game of words.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


Astar
member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Member Since: 8th Nov 2002
Total posts: 1591
Posted:Yes it is true that you have to paint some targets depending on the type of ordinance.

These attacks were all done with tomahawks which were GPS guided and they also use a basic electronic map of the terrain to plot their flight path.

No one is on the ground. The error here wasn't the missles missing. It was the selection of targets.

You can pull your defensive propaganda card all you want, The administration admitted it's mistakes with these air strikes. Yes there is a lot of ifs when it comes to analyzing satelitte reconisance, unless you have a low orbit satellite tasked to the what you are attacking.

The targets were spread all over the place so there was no possibility of tasking satellites to them anyways. The targets basicly came off a list of "might be military instalations better investigate further" targets. It's like calling in a line up of suspects into a police station in the first day of a murder investigation and shooting them all in the face.



Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Basically what I was saying is, people make mistakes. Nothing in this world is perfect. Now you can either believe nobody or somebody. Propiganda works both ways.

To keep this on topic, I still feel the only thing that Iraq had to do with 9/11 was what they saw on TV.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


musashii
musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 14th Dec 2002
Total posts: 1148
Posted:Both of you guys are forgetting one more avenue for laser targeting..drones..Welcome to the 21st century Not only are the predators and one other UAV being used, but there is a completely new generation of drones, much smaller and agile that I would guess are being tested in this terrain as well. The earliest I heard about the predators being used to paint was Afghanistan, tho they could have been used in the last war against Iraq, think they've been around that long. Then again thousands of bombs on one town sounds like carpet bombing, not a erm.. 'surgical strike' that we always hear in propaganda talks these days..

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."


NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Well according to the latest non-scientific America On Line Poll 65% of those that voted feel that there is a strong link between Sadam and Bin Laden and a majority feel that the link justifies us going to war.

I'll apologize in advance when the US starts bombing whatever country you all live in. But if it helps prevent another possible 9/11 all of your deaths is a small price to pay.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Yes, we did not mention those but Astar, not to put words in his mouth, is talking more about the lack of accuratcy in some weapons. He has also mentiond targets that werent what they were supposed to be.


The new UAV's weigh less than than like 2 lbs and are less than 6 inches accross. They are not really even visible on radar sas they dont have enough metal and are not big enough to be seen.

These are ususally used as servailance. The preditor is alot bigger and can carry one or two Hellfires on its wings or fusalage.


It is still controled by a pilot but the pilot isnt in the craft.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


musashii
musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 14th Dec 2002
Total posts: 1148
Posted:mm, please tell me this was sarcasm NYC? drunkenness? oversight perhaps? This statement of mass genocide just to ensure that it doesn't happen again, hmm, sounds just like the propaganda being spread through our media system. If that was the case, perhaps we should bomb our own capital hill, JUST to ensure it doesn't happen again..

Wow Raymund, thas pretty small..What are their capabilities?


First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."


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