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flidBRONZE Member
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom


Posted:
Does anyone know officially whether you need a permit or license to do fire stuff (eg firechains) in public places (as opposed to private or placves such as beaches where there are no fire signs) in England? I know that you need a permit from the council in order to busk in many areas, but is there are seperate one needed for fire?

Thanks

Mark PBRONZE Member
1,031 posts
Location: Bath, England


Posted:
In most of the open parks it is ok to do fire as long as you are not busking. If you are busking then you need to get a permit and I think there are special regulations regarding the use of fire.

If you want to use fire during routines where you are buskig I think you need some kind of Public Liability Insurance.

A couple of weeks ago in Bath there were some drummers turnred up to our spin and the Hotel called the police to complain about the drumming. The police came and said that there was no problem with the fire as they knew we had been doing it there for over a year.

Their only comment was that to make everything official so that there would be no worries about the complaints from the Hotel we would have to get Public Liability insurance.

we are currently investigating the price of the cost of insurance for this sort of thing.

Hope this helps, Mark P

flidBRONZE Member
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom


Posted:
thanks. I woulnd't mind finding out about insurance myself.

flidBRONZE Member
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom


Posted:
just found this link:

https://www.torribles.co.uk/html/liability.htm


It's expensive getting it yourself, but if you know 5 others then 33 quid is quite reasonable.

FireNixBRONZE Member
904 posts
Location: India/Bristol


Posted:
Thought that torribles had stopped doing it - along with a few other companys sinse Sept 11th!!! - when did you check out the website, cuz I looked and rang around a few weeks ago and no go!
I'll have to check it out
There is one off performance insurance for groups from co-op
email me if you need details

Feel the Flame
Phirenix


Mark PBRONZE Member
1,031 posts
Location: Bath, England


Posted:
Just checked out the number from the website and it is no longer in service so I guess they have disbanded.

Rob, I would be interested in finding out prices on Pub. Liability insurance if you find any

Cheers, Mark P

DomBRONZE Member
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK


Posted:
Do a search for for insurance details. Dixon Charmers (sp? - don't have the details lying about at the mo) act as agents for an insurance policy.

TheBovrilMonkeySILVER Member
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England


Posted:
At some point in the hopefully near future, I'm going to wander along to the police station and ask specifically about where I can and can't spin fire, busking (although I don't think I'm good enough for that quite yet), and any paperwork I might need.

While I know that most of the info I get could be Wycombe specific, I'll post it up for anyone interested.

But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.


Thistle 950 posts
Location: Nottingham UK


Posted:
Dixon Chalmers 01952 253120

Are we nearly there yet?


FireMikeZLaguna dude
1,438 posts
Location: Laguna, California, US


Posted:
we in Southern California (OrangeFire) are watching this thread with interest. will soon look seriously into what insurance is used around here & compare with other parts of US & elsewhere. some is likely not public liability, and some may be useless.

~ Mike

molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US


Mark PBRONZE Member
1,031 posts
Location: Bath, England


Posted:
Thankyou Thistle I will give them a ring and try and find out how much things are going to cost

Kurobei 786 posts
Location: The Phire Kru


Posted:
I should imagine some kind of insurance cover would be needed just in case!!!

whats up with all the limitations?


DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,688 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
I know this is an old post, but I just rang Torribles and they are still in business and do still offer the Performers Liabilty insurance (It was mentioned they were out of business earlier in the thread)

They also have a London office now
Check out https://www.torribles.co.uk/html/contact.htm
For their details

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


flidBRONZE Member
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom


Posted:
ooo, this looks like an interesting thread - i thought to myself when i saw the title. Ironically its one i created

cheers for the info, still will probably go without till i start making proper money from Poi. So far i've made a fictious tenner, which i've yet to have lain my hands on

el beardoBRONZE Member
72 posts
Location: london, uk


Posted:
a word of warning: in my experience, public liability insurance is useless for practicing and "fun" spinning, as it only covers u when u have been hired to perform. having said that, it may have been a particular condition of the policy i had (it may have been a performers public liability insurance, but as it happened before now, there is no chance of me remembering any details whatsoever). i went to dixon chalmers, who were very good and it cost about 50 squid.
make sure to check whether u have to be paid to spin for it to cover u.

May your staff spin fast and your poi always miss your balls.


DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,688 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
Well Torrbiles is a "Performers Public Liabilty" policy so yes, it's only for when performing - why would you need it for practicing? Any damage you caused yourself would surely be under personal insurance?
Torribles covers teaching workshops too, so for a performing person/group it's fairly versatile and pretty cheap.

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


Toreador VampBRONZE Member
70 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand


Posted:
It is well worth getting.

With the group I arrange bookigns for we need a minimum of 5,000,000 GBP. costs us a bloody fortune to get too(well it feels that way when we have to write the cheque out).

Public Liability will only cover the public not youself or others involved directly in your group/show(well thats they way it works for us anyway).

If you are planning on doing fire shows it is a must have. A few years ago there was an accident at an event invovling a cannon, ended up setting a field alight and burnt out about 50 cars, plus a fair bit of other damage.

Also I was watching a display of spinning and a cord broke and sent a lump of wood at teh audiance... luckily no one was hit.

Vamp

Give a man a fire, and he's warm for a day. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life
-- Terry Pratchett-Jingo

Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it.


el beardoBRONZE Member
72 posts
Location: london, uk


Posted:
u might need a public liability insurance for practising in case the chain on ur Fire Poi breaks, sending the burning wick into a tree, setting the tree alight, burning the little pigeons, which would try to fly away, but being so badly burnt their little wings cant work, so they fall out of the sky, landing on old mrs davenport's dog, killing him instantely. when mrs davenport bends over to pick him up and falls, breaking her hip, shes gonna sue ur ass off.
thats y u should get public liability insurance, even if ur just practicing. boy, was i pissed off when i found out i was gonna have to pay for a goddamm hip replacement coz my insurance didnt cover me while i was practicing.....
u can still hurt the public, even if ur just practicing. and the fact that u were just practicing is not going to stop the public from sueing u.

May your staff spin fast and your poi always miss your balls.


CharlesBRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand


Posted:
not to mention the possibility of that tree setting houses or buildings on fire, with the result being dozens of deaths, millions of pounds worth of damage and criminal charges for yourself.

But ya know, that's only a possibility...

HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?


CantusSILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,965 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom


Posted:
Hey Santi, how's you?

Could you get a cheaper policy if you promise not to live near old Mrs Davenport or does it not work like that?

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean


PK_BRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,995 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
i spent a day some time ago researching this topic in another thread months back, there are no public by-laws that i could find relating to Fire Spinning in public places. though local councils are some time ass holes.
as pre mentioned public liability covers gigs not practice, this is your hobby and you can do it any where you please. unlike skateboarding and anti- 4 wheeled wooden toy restricion signages in shopping precincts.

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.


DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,688 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
Grrrrrrr - Torribles just mailed me this:
Unfortunately, we are unable to offer public liability insurance in respect of fire, teaching, workshops and audience participation, it is now just a performance only policy

Erm so lets see - no fire, no teaching, no workshops... Hmmmm useful

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,688 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
Dixon Chalmers are still offering individual cover for 75 per "season" i.e. September to September (so it finshes in Sept regardless of when you join). The number is 01952 641 321, the number previously posted was their fax machine

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


bluecatgeek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere


Posted:
they do empoyers liability too so you can use other performers and have them covered under your insurance. very handy. but talk to them cause it was someone else in my company who set my insurance up....

Holistic Spinner (I hope)


Russian_WulfgarSILVER Member
10 posts
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA


Posted:
We here in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA, are struggling with the insurance issue as well. We're having trouble locating a company that will handle Poi. We need it to spin in our County Park system. They have specifically told us it doesn't matter if we're practicing or having a show, they want to see our insurance before they will grant us permission to spin on their land.

PK_BRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,995 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
****ing sucks that you need insurance to do some thing you love and just for a hobby

thankfully i live in the UK

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.


King Of Bongo 522 posts
Location: Berlin


Posted:
Just got a bollocking from the police this evening...
told we couldn't practice on public property...

then when they left our conversation got onto licenses. I was wondering if anyone knew how much a group license would cost? There are a fair few of us in bristol and we'd like to have fun legally if possible! we have performed in a couple of places but so far everyone has been cool with fire outdoors away from people...

cheers
Ben

Your life is ending one minute at a time...
So live it.


PK_BRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,995 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
if you read this thread you will find your answer.


you dont need permits and lisenses to spin fire in non public performances, coppers cant tell you any thing. there are no laws passed on the matter.
if you can find any thing in here that i have missed then please post it. legislation.hmso
you only need insurance if you are doing a public performance too. this is your hobby and as long as you have shown health and saftey to wards yourself and others in your company or around you, there is no reason for them to move you on.

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.


dj_goose 157 posts
Location: A Melbourne boy through and through


Posted:
I got moved on 8 times in 1 hour while busking at the Edinburgh fringe festival, evidently i didn't realize that it was going to be a problem, but they don't do much excpet ask u to move on and even then most of them want a show and to try it first

Look to the moon, look to the stars, and if you still can't find happyness...find a bar!!!


PK_BRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,995 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
Busking with fire? or non fire props?
the fringe is a very busy time in the city, they were probably concerned with health and safty issues as there are a lot of tourists in town for the fringe. There is a guy in town that stands on princes street every day with out fail, never had any probs i dont think with coppers or official twats, but then his act doesnt involve object manipulation.

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.


Fly To The Flame 1 post
Location: nr Brighton, Sussex, UK


Posted:
Hang on, I've got confused reading through this..can we recap?!

It's legal to fire-poi in public in the UK, so long as you're not doing it for money, right?
(or somewhere really really silly like a petrol station forecourt! :-P)

What if you do want to busk and make a few pennies? what license do you need, where do you get it from, and how much is it?

tks

Fly + Flame = *Pain*----(just like me!!)----


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