Forums > Help! > Pics of Maori Warriors
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43 posts
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
43 posts
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posted:
I'm deseperately seeking examples of the face and body paint that the Maori Warriors wear.
The patterns etc.
I'm deseperately seeking examples of the face and body paint that the Maori Warriors wear.
The patterns etc.
*8*WildChild*8*
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
hmmm... hopefully this goes without saying, but just in case...
be careful what you do with that information! you are dealing with a people's sacred energies, and they may take offense if you go copying or emulating them without being a part of their teaching. for instance, i know of people that have copied tribal tatoos, and offended "natives" to the point of violence because they copied a design from a picture that was the medicine of their grandfather, etc... sacred teachings are not to be taken lightly, or even not so lightly. maori are very strong people, and might not take lightly misuse of their medicine. anyway, hope this does't sound presumptuous, just trying to help, as i've seen weird things happen with sacred medicine...like fire...
hmmm... hopefully this goes without saying, but just in case...
be careful what you do with that information! you are dealing with a people's sacred energies, and they may take offense if you go copying or emulating them without being a part of their teaching. for instance, i know of people that have copied tribal tatoos, and offended "natives" to the point of violence because they copied a design from a picture that was the medicine of their grandfather, etc... sacred teachings are not to be taken lightly, or even not so lightly. maori are very strong people, and might not take lightly misuse of their medicine. anyway, hope this does't sound presumptuous, just trying to help, as i've seen weird things happen with sacred medicine...like fire...
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
member
43 posts
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
43 posts
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posted:
First of all: Thanx for the info — about the tattoo examples as well as the sacred teachings.
I need it for a workshop where each fire dancer has to create a "performance-persona".
I will, however, take special care not to copy any of the designs directly — rather create my own design with the examples merely as guide-lines.
As far as respect and awareness is concerned, I understand that the Ta Moko is a "sacred medicine" for these people, and will therefore appraoch the use thereof as such.
Thanx again, I do appreciate it.
First of all: Thanx for the info — about the tattoo examples as well as the sacred teachings.
I need it for a workshop where each fire dancer has to create a "performance-persona".
I will, however, take special care not to copy any of the designs directly — rather create my own design with the examples merely as guide-lines.
As far as respect and awareness is concerned, I understand that the Ta Moko is a "sacred medicine" for these people, and will therefore appraoch the use thereof as such.
Thanx again, I do appreciate it.
*8*WildChild*8*
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
Actually I am thinking they don't mind much. If you look at the bottom of the gallery in the second link Malcolm posted it says that you can purchase a book of 20 designs for use in tatooing. That would mean the general public is welcome to it in my eyes.
The first link didn't work for me, but some of them I have a hard time understanding what makes them specifically Maorian. Many of the more "dragon" designs were strikingly similar to celtic and oriental dragon designs. There was one that while amazingly done, looked like a Geiger creation. Some I understand about, like the father-son one, the patterns and the facial tats.
So they use the tap and ink method, much like the traditional oriental tats used a bladed edge and ink? Ummm...ow. I think at that juncture I would pass...but it really is striking!
Thanks Malcolm for posting those!
Actually I am thinking they don't mind much. If you look at the bottom of the gallery in the second link Malcolm posted it says that you can purchase a book of 20 designs for use in tatooing. That would mean the general public is welcome to it in my eyes.
The first link didn't work for me, but some of them I have a hard time understanding what makes them specifically Maorian. Many of the more "dragon" designs were strikingly similar to celtic and oriental dragon designs. There was one that while amazingly done, looked like a Geiger creation. Some I understand about, like the father-son one, the patterns and the facial tats.
So they use the tap and ink method, much like the traditional oriental tats used a bladed edge and ink? Ummm...ow. I think at that juncture I would pass...but it really is striking!
Thanks Malcolm for posting those!
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
PS...for stage performance temporary tat's WildChild, make a template out of a heavy duty plastic. Tape it to the desired body part and then use a strong quality body paint, marker or even body spray paint. That way your look will remain completely consistant from show to show!
PS...for stage performance temporary tat's WildChild, make a template out of a heavy duty plastic. Tape it to the desired body part and then use a strong quality body paint, marker or even body spray paint. That way your look will remain completely consistant from show to show!
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
member
43 posts
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
43 posts
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posted:
Thanx,Pele*
The performance took place a week or so already.
As far as the body painting is concerned:
As far as the actual performance is concerned:
I appreciate your advice, however, since I will definitely make use of the idea again.
Would you say that the women mainly wear that bit of "mouth-and-chin" tattoo??
Thanx,Pele*
The performance took place a week or so already.
As far as the body painting is concerned:
As far as the actual performance is concerned:
I appreciate your advice, however, since I will definitely make use of the idea again.
Would you say that the women mainly wear that bit of "mouth-and-chin" tattoo??
*8*WildChild*8*
SILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,966 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Tantamount to fatuity
15,966 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Posted:
I like the idea of the father-son tattoo. Don't rate my chances of persuading my dad to get a dragons eye on his arm to match mine though. Could try for a "badger" on his back
fingers crossed.
I see what you mean about the Geigeresque one P.
I like the idea of the father-son tattoo. Don't rate my chances of persuading my dad to get a dragons eye on his arm to match mine though. Could try for a "badger" on his back
fingers crossed.
I see what you mean about the Geigeresque one P.
Meh
Oolering Man
729 posts
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
729 posts
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
Posted:
I'm thinking of having several neolithic rock carvings tatooed on me. one or two were going to be exact copies, and one or two stylisations, with certain rock pieces as direct basis.
I'm thinking of having several neolithic rock carvings tatooed on me. one or two were going to be exact copies, and one or two stylisations, with certain rock pieces as direct basis.
quote:Do you think this rule still applies here?
you are dealing with a people's sacred energies, and they may take offense if you go copying or emulating them without being a part of their teaching.
SILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,966 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Tantamount to fatuity
15,966 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Posted:
Liam, Arashi was only guessing. He doesn't know for sure. He lives in Texas not NZ.
You could read up on it though. You should use the uni library. There's bound to be stuff in there.
Liam, Arashi was only guessing. He doesn't know for sure. He lives in Texas not NZ.
You could read up on it though. You should use the uni library. There's bound to be stuff in there.
Meh
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
yeah cantus is totally right, i was just trying to bring up a respect for the sacred, they really probably don't give a flying fart. the ecounter i was talking about was with a polynesian warrior. close geographically so i thought i'd mention it. you never know.
yeah cantus is totally right, i was just trying to bring up a respect for the sacred, they really probably don't give a flying fart. the ecounter i was talking about was with a polynesian warrior. close geographically so i thought i'd mention it. you never know.
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
Oolering Man
729 posts
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
729 posts
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
Posted:
Its not like you to call me by THAT name.............
quote:I know, I want to know peoples opinions on it, because, in essence, what I would be doing would be the same as copying maori tattoo's. Maybe I'm just trying to postulate as to wether just because the culture died out or evolved into some other culture several thousand years ago, its still disrespectful.
i was just trying to bring up a respect for the sacred
Its not like you to call me by THAT name.............
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Posted:
surely if you are having the rock carving tattooed because you like it and respect it then there isn't reeally a problem. where as with the facial markings it's a direct imitation and could seen like you're trying to meddle with or copy something you don't understand. With the carvings it's different. the equivalent would be reproducing the carvings and having them on display in your garden. methinks. not sure though. just my jumbled interpretation.
surely if you are having the rock carving tattooed because you like it and respect it then there isn't reeally a problem. where as with the facial markings it's a direct imitation and could seen like you're trying to meddle with or copy something you don't understand. With the carvings it's different. the equivalent would be reproducing the carvings and having them on display in your garden. methinks. not sure though. just my jumbled interpretation.
Geologists do it in the dirt................ 
SILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,966 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Tantamount to fatuity
15,966 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Posted:
Oops, didn't notice the name slip. Sorry. I'll go and stand in the corner.
Oops, didn't notice the name slip. Sorry. I'll go and stand in the corner.
Meh
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
yeah, i agree still. those rock drawings are ancient, and it is truly impossible to really understand what the heck they REALLY mean. they are like a blank canvas adrift in a sea. but with medicine, like tattoos or sweat lodges or totem items, they mean something, and they have a magick wrapped in them that is there, and is associated with someone's power. so to copy them means that you are doing something, that you have no idea what, and it seems very babylonian to just think that you can copy it for ego reasons when you have barely brushed the surface of the culture. it shows lack of respect. not that that is even pertinent to the maori tattoo thing. (i've never met a Maori, my friends did when they did splore in NZ, and they told me about them, so i don't really know). but it is certainly an attitude that runs rampant in our world. even sacred medicines, like father peyote or the coca leaf, become bastardized and itemized and marketable to babylon. but those cave drawings are like rorscharch inkblots. that is my opinion. and it's not like you are going to claim those medicines as your own, or think that you are now a cave man because you saw a picture of a cave drawing and got the tattoo.it is mostly about the attitude. some people see a polynesian tattoo, and decide "hey cool, i want one" when they have no idea what the tattoos means, nor have they even ever met a polynesian warrior or medicine man, much less shown respect for them by helping to support their ways, etc. i used to apprentice with a sculptor who did lots of stuff with neolithic art, and it was okay, cause it seemed obvious to me he was in touch with the energies of them and he even made his own designs mostly based on his studies of them. well that's enough of my big mouth.
yeah, i agree still. those rock drawings are ancient, and it is truly impossible to really understand what the heck they REALLY mean. they are like a blank canvas adrift in a sea. but with medicine, like tattoos or sweat lodges or totem items, they mean something, and they have a magick wrapped in them that is there, and is associated with someone's power. so to copy them means that you are doing something, that you have no idea what, and it seems very babylonian to just think that you can copy it for ego reasons when you have barely brushed the surface of the culture. it shows lack of respect. not that that is even pertinent to the maori tattoo thing. (i've never met a Maori, my friends did when they did splore in NZ, and they told me about them, so i don't really know). but it is certainly an attitude that runs rampant in our world. even sacred medicines, like father peyote or the coca leaf, become bastardized and itemized and marketable to babylon. but those cave drawings are like rorscharch inkblots. that is my opinion. and it's not like you are going to claim those medicines as your own, or think that you are now a cave man because you saw a picture of a cave drawing and got the tattoo.it is mostly about the attitude. some people see a polynesian tattoo, and decide "hey cool, i want one" when they have no idea what the tattoos means, nor have they even ever met a polynesian warrior or medicine man, much less shown respect for them by helping to support their ways, etc. i used to apprentice with a sculptor who did lots of stuff with neolithic art, and it was okay, cause it seemed obvious to me he was in touch with the energies of them and he even made his own designs mostly based on his studies of them. well that's enough of my big mouth.
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
Oolering Man
729 posts
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
729 posts
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
Posted:
Hmmm..... interesting, I was wondering if morphic resonance or genetic/racial memory could be bought to bear as one of the reasons that I am drawn to such designs in the first place, and what effect that the above theories would have on this discussion
Hmmm..... interesting, I was wondering if morphic resonance or genetic/racial memory could be bought to bear as one of the reasons that I am drawn to such designs in the first place, and what effect that the above theories would have on this discussion
SILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,966 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Tantamount to fatuity
15,966 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Posted:
Speaking from personal experience, my art and designs come from an inner place. I don't think too much about them. Just let it flow and out it comes. I think that's what people have done for millenia - drawn from within. And that which comes out speaks to various people on various levels. Some might see it as intricate, striking or thought provoking. Others spiritual. Yet others as just marks.
It's down to the individual.
That's my ramble for the moment.
[ 10 June 2002, 16:34: Message edited by: C@ntus ]
Speaking from personal experience, my art and designs come from an inner place. I don't think too much about them. Just let it flow and out it comes. I think that's what people have done for millenia - drawn from within. And that which comes out speaks to various people on various levels. Some might see it as intricate, striking or thought provoking. Others spiritual. Yet others as just marks.
It's down to the individual.
That's my ramble for the moment.
[ 10 June 2002, 16:34: Message edited by: C@ntus ]
Meh
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
oh, yeah, gettin in to akashic record is totally where you get in to being in touch with the energies of it, and not on a babylonia level of conversation. as far as that goes,HELL YEAH! that's when you have the respect as said above, because it has medicine for you. there is also the possibilties that the symbols can be speaking to you through the collective consciousness, through dreams, or other dimensional psy work. the list of ways that the universe could be bringing you those energies is infinite. maybe the spiral in the corner of the picture will speak to you and you will change your name to spiral?!? the difference is that a lot of people just know very little about something, such as native american beliefs, and yet start wearing native clothes and buying plastic dream catchers and getting native warrior tattoos and the real native watches it all, and cries inside, because it is all at the expense of his own people. and the knowledge of what their lives were like and the spirit and feelings of the ancestors that evolved it with suffering, and what the dream catcher IS isn't transmitted in that impetuosity. that's something that can translate over to poi too. the same thing happens there. anyway, i think it is really a matter of awareness. is it being done as another way to avoid our reality and how we are affecting the universe ("wow, this is neat, pass me a happy meal, let's go to the tattoo shop") or is it a way to help us become more aware and conscious ("man this stuff is nifty! spirals are ubiquitous in mankind's artistic expression! i wonder what that means?)
oh, yeah, gettin in to akashic record is totally where you get in to being in touch with the energies of it, and not on a babylonia level of conversation. as far as that goes,HELL YEAH! that's when you have the respect as said above, because it has medicine for you. there is also the possibilties that the symbols can be speaking to you through the collective consciousness, through dreams, or other dimensional psy work. the list of ways that the universe could be bringing you those energies is infinite. maybe the spiral in the corner of the picture will speak to you and you will change your name to spiral?!? the difference is that a lot of people just know very little about something, such as native american beliefs, and yet start wearing native clothes and buying plastic dream catchers and getting native warrior tattoos and the real native watches it all, and cries inside, because it is all at the expense of his own people. and the knowledge of what their lives were like and the spirit and feelings of the ancestors that evolved it with suffering, and what the dream catcher IS isn't transmitted in that impetuosity. that's something that can translate over to poi too. the same thing happens there. anyway, i think it is really a matter of awareness. is it being done as another way to avoid our reality and how we are affecting the universe ("wow, this is neat, pass me a happy meal, let's go to the tattoo shop") or is it a way to help us become more aware and conscious ("man this stuff is nifty! spirals are ubiquitous in mankind's artistic expression! i wonder what that means?)
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Posted:
arashi - your long posts hurt my poor eyes. I know you're making valid points but I seem to have an inability to understand more than about six lones of text at a time.........
Any possibility of some random breaks to help little me? Not a dig -
xx
arashi - your long posts hurt my poor eyes. I know you're making valid points but I seem to have an inability to understand more than about six lones of text at a time.........
Any possibility of some random breaks to help little me? Not a dig -
xx
Geologists do it in the dirt................
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
sorry, i write stream of consciousness. i'll put a happy fuzzy sticker on my enter button, that'll help
sorry, i write stream of consciousness. i'll put a happy fuzzy sticker on my enter button, that'll help
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Posted:
thank you
thank you
Geologists do it in the dirt................
Oolering Man
729 posts
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
729 posts
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
Posted:
Indeed, I took my name spiral for several reasons, and one of those reasons is one of tattoos I want to get done. I feel that in a way they are talking to me, and they are part of my sacred medicine, if that is not to bolder statement to make ?
Indeed, I took my name spiral for several reasons, and one of those reasons is one of tattoos I want to get done. I feel that in a way they are talking to me, and they are part of my sacred medicine, if that is not to bolder statement to make ?
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
indeed, spirals are the shizit. i have stripes, which are linear sections of spirals in my mind, dyed in my dreds.
indeed, spirals are the shizit. i have stripes, which are linear sections of spirals in my mind, dyed in my dreds.
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
Oolering Man
729 posts
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
729 posts
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
Posted:
excellent
[ 12 June 2002, 12:10: Message edited by: Spiral ]
excellent
[ 12 June 2002, 12:10: Message edited by: Spiral ]
SILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,966 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Tantamount to fatuity
15,966 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Posted:
I like this Arashi chap Spiral. He sounds like our kind of people.
Don't tell him I said though, ok?
I like this Arashi chap Spiral. He sounds like our kind of people.
Don't tell him I said though, ok?
Meh
Oolering Man
729 posts
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
729 posts
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
Posted:
funny, I was just thinking that
funny, I was just thinking that
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
gee, thanks, lion-o, snarf snarf
gee, thanks, lion-o, snarf snarf
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
member
76 posts
Location: Wellington, NZ
76 posts
Location: Wellington, NZ
Posted:
hey,
I'm a NZer!!! ..i don't really know...but.....
y don't u come here and find out??? there is quite a few of hippies as well!!!
sorry, i know i was no help....
Lydia
hey,
I'm a NZer!!! ..i don't really know...but.....
y don't u come here and find out??? there is quite a few of hippies as well!!!
sorry, i know i was no help....
Lydia
Neo:Wow, that sounds like a really good deal, but I have a better one. How about I give you the finger and you give me my phone call?
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
well, sage was just in a maori pow-wow thingy with some elders and stuff, so she learned a bit...
she told me the tatoos are representational of social status, and personal history. so copying them wouldn't really be cool, you'd just look like a silly gringo with someone else's biography on your face. and the women are able to get tatoos on their chins, and sometimes, rarely, a few other places, after they are older and have gained a certain amount of prestige or wisdom. it's like a guy thing. hey i'm just the messenger.
well, sage was just in a maori pow-wow thingy with some elders and stuff, so she learned a bit...
she told me the tatoos are representational of social status, and personal history. so copying them wouldn't really be cool, you'd just look like a silly gringo with someone else's biography on your face. and the women are able to get tatoos on their chins, and sometimes, rarely, a few other places, after they are older and have gained a certain amount of prestige or wisdom. it's like a guy thing. hey i'm just the messenger.
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
member
8 posts
Location: Vancouver, Canada, BC
8 posts
Location: Vancouver, Canada, BC
Posted:
I recently saw a good movie centered on the Maori in modern NZ. Its called "Once Were Warriors" It can be pretty brutal at times, but there are some shots of incredible Maori tattoo work, as well as a bit on their martial art. One of the stars is the guy who played Jango Fett in the new Star Wars.
I recently saw a good movie centered on the Maori in modern NZ. Its called "Once Were Warriors" It can be pretty brutal at times, but there are some shots of incredible Maori tattoo work, as well as a bit on their martial art. One of the stars is the guy who played Jango Fett in the new Star Wars.
Back on my feetLike a freight train I'm coming
GOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
I personally think it was really mean to do 'that' to Jango Fett while Boba Fett was watching.
what becomes of the broken hearted?
I personally think it was really mean to do 'that' to Jango Fett while Boba Fett was watching.
what becomes of the broken hearted?
Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always
SILVER Member
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Posted:
I knew this irish chap once who wanted to get a maori tattoo while in Australia (go figure) He found that most NZ artisists in Sydney wont do maori tats on 'whiteys' but will happily draw up a stylised version..... But as with the didge debate a while back, different strokes for different folks....
didge debate
I knew this irish chap once who wanted to get a maori tattoo while in Australia (go figure) He found that most NZ artisists in Sydney wont do maori tats on 'whiteys' but will happily draw up a stylised version..... But as with the didge debate a while back, different strokes for different folks....
didge debate
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