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Whiffle Squeek


Whiffle Squeek

addict
Location: Hartford, CT USA

Total posts: 416
Posted:

[ 11 September 2002, 13:16: Message edited by: Malcolm ]


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Mark P
BRONZE Member since Oct 2001

Mark P

old hand
Location: Bath, England

Total posts: 1031
Posted:<grabs video camera, 20l of fuel and a box of spliffs>

Right 5 minutes it is then - not going to miss out this time - when an' where d'ya em


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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:yeah 5 mins/3Hrs sounds supah fine, especially since DVD [next chapter] button can speed things along! rules out my havin' a comedy skit tho...
/grooms hair...


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Malcolm
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2003

Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 1019
Posted:So far for rules I have

1. Maximum 5 minutes (minimum 1 minute)
Postion of clip on tape must be specified.
2. No cuts or edits allowed in entry.
3. No computer or camera special effects allowed.
4. Limited to first 36* entries to arrive at Home of Poi, 39 Woodbury Street, Christchurch, New Zealand. (* if some entries are shorter than 5 minutes then more can be allowed to fit on tape.)
5. Must be able to see the person performing.
6. If music supplied. Music should be heard on the video camera microphone. Music must also be supplied as a seperate digital file (WAV,AVI,MP3 etc) to ensure best quality or provided of a high quality on a digital video tape.
7. If music supplied then a written authorisation must be given from the music artist giving permission to use their piece on the COL4 video and/or DVD. Also required is the artists contact details to go in the cover slip of the video case.
8. Full address and contact details of the person/s in the video must be supplied.
9. Supply a name/s to appear on video before the clip, and contact details to be shown in the cover slip of the video case.
10. Must be doing swinging (not sex), twirling, or any of the fire arts.
11. Must not contain "x-rated" material.
12. Bribes can be made out to "Malcolm Crawshay"

Judging.
"Peoples choice award" After tape is made, each one sold will have a voting "login code" in which a single vote can be made online for their choice of best performer. After 3 months votes will be totalled and award presented.

Any other suggestions??
Are you happy with judging suggestion?
Speak now or forever hold you peace

Can't set a start date till I get all these rules sorted.


May your balls always burn

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Hrm... I'm just concerned about the "first 36 entries" lowering the level of the spinners on the video. I'd be more comfortable with the "best 36 spinners" or something... I know that will probably hurt feelings and such but I really don't want to watch some kid do the weave behind his trash dumpster for 5 minutes.

There will always be people who will send in crap JUST to be on a video. Please don't be nice and let them clog up the competition.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Jaeden
GOLD Member since Sep 2001

member
Location: Edmonton, Canada

Total posts: 220
Posted:I realy don't know how many entries you receive for these events, so I can't criticize the number 36 too much. However, when inspecting my COL3 case I came across a little blurb that read "Highlights from the 2002 video competition at www.homeofpoi.com". To me, highlights are spectacles, things of beauty and skill, clips that stand out for one reason or another. If you were to only accept 36 entries COL4 would no longer be highlights and simply become the yearly HOP video compalation. I myself would be hesetant to purchase such a video.

Now, I would understand not accepting any entries after the cutoff date, or giving preference to the first 36, but not discounting all entries past that number. As NYC brought up, I would hate to see several 5 min segments of "the fountain" taped in someone's backyard just because they were quick to send in their entries.

At least, that's my thoughts.


The world is not out to get you but if you fight it you will be eaten alive

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Raphael96
SILVER Member since Sep 2002

old hand
Location: New York City, USA

Total posts: 899
Posted:With a first come, first served rule in place for COL 4, if I sent in a video quickly enough I could get my act on COL 4.

Right now, nobody wants that.

Please, just pick the BEST 36.

Maybe I'll be ready to send something in a few years, but until then, don't make it easier than it should be. The bar of excellence should continue to be raised!

My 2 cents,

Raph


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nomad
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

nomad

retired
Location: Paris, France

Total posts: 356
Posted:I really think a first-come first-serve criteria does not makes sense. As well as "no cuts no edits" and "no camera effect". This is why: it seems like there is a certain miscommunication or misunderstanding around the COL affair. Some people see it as the "Home of Poi compilation" (you send something half-decent or better, you'll be in), some people see it as "The Best of Fire Spinning". I would like it to be "The Best of Fire Spinning". Some people will be sad or angry because their footage won't be on the final tape. It will be a biased selection, mostly a judgement call for Malcolm and the other people who judge. But hey, that probably happens already when some people find out they did not win the competition.

Is the goal of the video to include every person who submits an entry, make everyone happy at the expense of the overall quality of the tape? Or is the goal to create a really bad-ass video, therefore pushing people to work hard not only on their individual skills but also on the production of the video? I am not sure whether the competition rewards the best fire spinner or the best video. Personnally, I would prefer the latter. Currently, it seems to me that Malcolm is doing the former. I am not saying that is a bad thing, but I think it is not clear to a lot of people.

There are two types of videos within COL: the "individual spinning" (such as - from previous COL tapes - Sage, Robert Michael, Shibaki, Xaeda, etc.) and the "fire videos" (such as Tribe of the Burning Sock, Hayobola, Skunk, Anthelion, Dimension 7). The later not only spin fire but also work on the setting and the editing. Don't get me wrong, again I'm not saying one is better than the other. I have been impressed and mesmerized by the 4 individual spinners I just mentionned. The two types are good, they just have a different purpose. Having people send out videos for what is at the same time a competition AND a call-to-entry for a video compilation creates the confusion.

Nomad


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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:No matter how malcolm goes aboot it, I'll just say that:
In Malcolm we trust.
Thanks for throwing any vid compilation, oh he called Malc.
All's well that ends up well goes the refrain of my life!

shame about the no swinging rule tho ....


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Malcolm
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2003

Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 1019
Posted:Origonally because of the limited number of entries we could not be picky as to who got on the video. Now that we are getting more and more we do have to drop some of the videos. So yes it has gone from a compilation of videos to a "best of the best" video.

I have now updated rules as follows.

1. Maximum 5 minutes (minimum 1 minute)
Postion of clip on tape must be specified.
2. No cuts or edits allowed in entry.
3. No computer or camera special effects allowed.
4. Only the best 36* entries will make it to final COL4. Must arrive before set date at Home of Poi, 39 Woodbury Street, Christchurch, New Zealand. (* if some entries are shorter than 5 minutes then more can be allowed to fit on tape.)
5. Must be able to see the person performing.
6. If music supplied. Music should be heard on the video camera microphone. Music must also be supplied as a seperate digital file (WAV,AVI,MP3 etc) to ensure best quality or provided of a high quality on a digital video tape.
7. If music supplied then a written authorisation must be given from the music artist giving permission to use their piece on the COL4 video and/or DVD. Also required is the artists contact details to go in the cover slip of the video case.
8. Full address and contact details of the person/s in the video must be supplied.
9. Supply a name/s to appear on video before the clip, and contact details to be shown in the cover slip of the video case.
10. Must be doing swinging (not sex), twirling, or any of the fire arts.
11. Must not contain "x-rated" material.
12. Bribes can be made out to "Malcolm Crawshay"

Judging.
"Peoples choice award" After tape is made, each one sold will have a voting "login code" in which a single vote can be made online for their choice of best performer. After 3 months votes will be totalled and award presented.

Any other suggestions??

Do we really want to see special effects and amazing editing work or pure good "live" performance?
It is hard to judge all the same with some having been editied and special effects added.
Or would you rather have two catagories?


[ 27 September 2002, 10:15: Message edited by: Malcolm ]


May your balls always burn

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nomad
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

nomad

retired
Location: Paris, France

Total posts: 356
Posted:quote: Do we really want to see special effects and amazing editing work or pure good "live" performance?
It is hard to judge all the same with some having been editied and special effects added.
Or would you rather have two catagories?
Personnally, the video I watch matters more than the competition. I want to put the tape in my VCR, sit back, and be waowed by original moves, nice locations, and cool editing. I understand that, talking about the competition, it makes it harder to judge who's the best if we allow these things.

Again, I will appreciate more the overall work (i.e. spinning skill, filming quality, setting, editing) than a static camera on a fire spinner. But maybe that's just me.

Nomad


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:Sounds great, when does it open?

N


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Mark P
BRONZE Member since Oct 2001

Mark P

old hand
Location: Bath, England

Total posts: 1031
Posted:Sounds good malcolm I am rigginf up the camera soon

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:humm, it really depends if were having a 'spinning' competition or 'video'. Since the prizes are awarded for "best staff" and "best poi" I might sugest the former is the case.

weather you get 36 fivminute continious sets that are all intresting to watch (and i been bored wathcing col3 with cuts) is another matter, and it might be nice to re-cut footage for final presentation. I all depends on the product Malcom is trying to create.

N

p.s. and when is the next competition?


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Malcolm
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2003

Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 1019
Posted:OK how about two catagories.
One for performing without editing/special effects
and one for where all that fancy editing is allowed.

1. Without editing will have two sub catagories
1a. Poi 1st prize US$500 goods - judged by us
1b. Staff 1st prize US$500 goods - judged by us
2. With editing
Best video award 1st prize US$500 goods - judged by us

"Peoples choice award" - US$500 goods - judged by buyers of the video

We will pick only those that are good.

Starts now and Finishes 31st March 2003

I have now updated rules as follows.

1. Maximum 5 minutes (minimum 1 minute)
Postion of clip on tape must be specified.
2. No cuts or edits allowed in entry of catagory 1a or 1b.
3. No computer or camera special effects allowed in catagory 1a or 1b.
4. Only the best 36* entries will make it to final COL4. Must arrive before 31st March 2003 at Home of Poi, 39 Woodbury Street, Christchurch, New Zealand. (* if some entries are shorter than 5 minutes then more can be allowed to fit on tape.)
5. Must be able to see the person performing.
6. If music supplied. Music should be heard on the video camera microphone. Music must also be supplied as a seperate digital file (WAV,AVI,MP3 etc) to ensure best quality or provided of a high quality on a digital video tape.
7. If music supplied then a written authorisation must be given from the music artist giving permission to use their piece on the COL4 video and/or DVD. Also required is the artists contact details to go in the cover slip of the video case.
8. Full address and contact details of the person/s in the video must be supplied.
9. Supply a name/s to appear on video before the clip, and contact details to be shown in the cover slip of the video case.
10. Must be doing swinging (not sex), twirling, or any of the fire arts.
11. Must not contain "x-rated" material.
12. Judges decissions are final and no correspondance shall be entered into...
13. "Peoples choice award" After tape is made, each one sold will have a voting "login code" in which a single vote can be made online for their choice of best performer. After 3 months votes will be totalled and award presented.


May your balls always burn

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Cassandra


Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !

Total posts: 4224
Posted:I think this is really good.
Malcolm !!!

Will there be an "other toys section" ? even with no actual prize, but just a chance to participate ?

as always much respect and love
Shine on
cassandra


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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nomad
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

nomad

retired
Location: Paris, France

Total posts: 356
Posted:That sounds great!

I'm thinking the 36 limit might be high. Did you receive enough material for the recent COLs (2 and 3) to fill in 36 good slots? If yes, that's terrific. If not, why not leave it open and reserve the right to only put 25 in the final tape if you only get 25 good ones?

Just a thought...

Nomad


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Mark P
BRONZE Member since Oct 2001

Mark P

old hand
Location: Bath, England

Total posts: 1031
Posted:Sounds great Malcolm.

I just have a quick question :

You say that any music used must have a written agreement from the artist. Most spinners will be able to produce a better set if they are dancing to music, however most of the music that we use will be impossible to get authorisation from. The Col4 video will have backing music where music can not be supplied by us (I assume).

Q. Do we know what music is going to be used? and can we submit a tape of us spinning to that music?

Thanks,

Mark


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Malcolm
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2003

Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 1019
Posted:Cassandra

Other toys - Yes you can send in videos of other toys.
Catagory 2. can have any other toys in it and is not defined by poi or staff.

Nomad,

I believe you are correct. We will not use 36 if we do not get 36 good ones.

Mark,

I am no musician, that has been proven for sure
But I can do my best to find music for people who do not provide music (It is reeeaalllly hard to find music to suit a video after it has been made). And this is only done once I know who will be in the final video. I can not provide music now. There are a few people here who are very good with the making of music. You can see their details on the videos. Maybe you can contact them or others to get something made, or get permission to use.
If I come across more music people willing to provide music I will post their details on the site.


May your balls always burn

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:I forgot to agree publicly with Nomad. I think editing should be allowed. It WILL be a better video to watch if people can self edit.

But I'm only one man with one vote.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Total posts: 3989
Posted:Editing - Defintely allow it. Personally, I think it should be compulsory.

Each video should be an edited version of no more than x minutes long. This means it's easier for the judges to see what ach contestant feels is the "good parts"

Sending in 45 minutes of unedited spinning will simply bore the judges, and make it more likely that some of the good parts will be missed because they fell asleep.

Imagine if 30 people sent in an hour each and another 10 sent in half an hour each. That makes for 35 hours non-stop of watching twirling, an exhausting request for anyone.

Each video is likely to be watched at least twice, and the finalist probably 4 or five times.

Suddenly we are looking at over 100 hours of solid sit-on-your-b*m-in-front-of-tv where every judge needs to be wide awake and alert for that 2 second bit where the perosn does something really cool.

If people don't edit their footage, then its their fault if it gets missed.

In my humble, married opinion...


HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Not really a suggestion for the video itself but why not just sell em in fourpack, ya know with a cool case or have the cases so that when you line em up its a pic of Malcolm or something *shrugs and walks off*

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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nomad
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

nomad

retired
Location: Paris, France

Total posts: 356
Posted:quote: I forgot to agree publicly with Nomad. I think editing should be allowed. It WILL be a better video to watch if people can self edit.

But I'm only one man with one vote. And all this time, I thought I was fighting the battle all alone... Thanks bro.

Nomad
A.N.T.H.E.L.I.O.N
www.anthelion.net


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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:nix?
Member
Member # 800
posted 25 September 2002 10:38
------------------------------------------------------------------------
yes and yes.
im not to hot on the judging myself, just you wait, grrrr.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Well, fair warning nix?, I have been working hard on my contact staff


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:I like the way the rules are developing. I look forward to not having to watch people that suck as bad as I did on COL 1.....

Well actually, I haven't seen anybody on any of the videos that sucked that bad, so I guess it is a moot point....

I feel Malcolm shouldn't be under obligation to include EVERYBODY...... or to leave tape unedited. It is his production, after all, he is making this thing, and we should all be very grateful to him for that, I know I am.

And I realy like the idea of stiff competition...makes the overall video of a higher standard. We want to end up with something that makes it BIG, like hollywood big, and the way to do that is by having performers that are of the HIGHEST skill. Even so, everybody should feel incouraged to send in a video, and not be diswaded, as the chances are that they will make it onto the video (unless there are a million entries...) is pretty good.

P.S. Nix?, I loved your contact staff work on COL 3


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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jvol


member


Total posts: 1
Posted:hmm..

The length range may be too broad. 5 minutes is long for single-act video. 3 or 4 minutes should be plenty for best-of.. 1.5 to 3.5 minutes?

more importantly, I don't like the intensely-competitive, winner-takes all bit, with one person in each catgry taking home 500 bucks, and the second and all the rest taking away nothing.

what about something more like 250 for the winner, 100 for 2nd, and 20-25 for everybody else that qualifies for the tape? adds up the same, but fewer losers..

everybody that qualifies to be on a tape thats sold should make *something*.

Other tweaks to consider:
dividing the individual spinner catgrys between male & female. (easier to judge)
the 'editted' prizes being more, since thats more trouble to produce. might even make the "editted" into an "edited group/ensemble" catgry

just my 2 cents..


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Jaeden
GOLD Member since Sep 2001

member
Location: Edmonton, Canada

Total posts: 220
Posted:@jvol:

5 minuits may be too long for some performances, but I have seen spinners who I could watch for hours.

In my experiance, poi is not an intensively-competitive activity, there are many good spinners out there though. Now this is just my opinion but I believe that the prize is only there as a bonus, not as the target. I don't see the need for more than one prize. Were there no prizes at all I don't think the skill level of the video wouldn't be as high, and therefore would make for a more borring watch, however if you start to add more prizes then you may get into trouble deciding who places where. After a point it becomes realy hard, verging on impossible, to decide the better of two spinners. I imagine Malcolm has enough dificulty choosing the winners as is.

Everyone who makes the video gets a free copy. All the procedes from video sales go back into this site to make it the best it can be I see no problems here.

I like the no editing categories (mostly because I can't edit to save my life). I thought Malcolm said that on each submission you need to specify which 5 minuit segment was your favourite. I guess I interpreted this to mean that only those 5 minuits would be looked at with regards to your entry. Could I have this clarified? Also, will there be any executive editing, or will the video clip appear on col4 as it was received at the HOP?

One final question, this for Malcolm.
You said that you had great dificulty matching music to spinning on the last video. Now that you will have un-edited entries, will people who supply thier own music have a better chance of making the video?

[ 07 October 2002, 02:02: Message edited by: Jaeden ]


The world is not out to get you but if you fight it you will be eaten alive

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Goddess_Of_Pyre


member
Location: Michigan, USA

Total posts: 107
Posted:On the time limit topic..I have a suggestion. Instead of just one video for col4 try a set...meaning...honorable menstions to everyone who enters of like 30 seconds also with the card insert the boxes with info inside.( this could be exclusively included with a DVD version only if you do DVD and VHS versions of COL) The actual winners will be fewer but they will recieve a longer time frame of video footage shown on the actual DVD/VHS. The feedback cards I like..if everyone will respond..that could prove vital feedback for future videos to make future installments of COL to become better. The music though.....How do I put this? I didn't care for the music choice on any of COL I own (sorry) Also..theres ALOT of Electro, LED, and Glo performers becoming more apparent...what about a totally seperate contest and video for them? just a suggestion. Let me know if you need any help for the future installment of COL. I am more then glad to help in any way I can. Also, what about a video segment on just live performances for those of whom, who are actually publicly performing or the many now fire friendly events around the world. I am more then happy to provide some footage of the many shows we have footage of.

And all my days are trances And all my nightly dreamsAre where thy gray eye glances And where thy footstep gleams-In what ethereal dances By what eternal streams. Edgar Allan PoeThe prophet is a fool and the religious man is fucking mad, and for the multitude of your sense and your inequity, and the great hatred......NANCY BOY

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:I belive the reason for wanting uncut footage relates to the fact that a person could take an hour of footage, with a thousand mistakes and edit it down to a five minute tape with no mistakes and all bad ass moves. Which is sort of cheating in a way, because in a real life performance you need to make it all the way through a spin with bad ass moves and NO mistakes. So, as much as I would like to edit out my mistakes and have a tape of all my bad ass stuff, with no mistakes, I almost always either end up making a mistake before I finish a run of all my best stuff, or I forget to include something I really like, so either way, I'm screwed. I think unedited footage gives a better representation of a persons true skill.
Editing footage is also imposible for some people based on lack of equipment (and money to buy equipment) just as there are awsome musicians out there who cannot submit music becaue of a lack of equipment.

Skunk,

you are very skillful, and I like your style, but as I recall, there were some questions asked on previouse COL videos about editing. I belive contestants were suposed to have one long continuouse segments, (full runs) not taking the best from several runs and splicing it into one run.

You have exreamly good technical skills, but part of the contest was not based on technical skill, but on style and movement (dance) and energy, whick allowed shibaki to win without doing even one BTB weave....

(ps)

Malcolm, you have to listen to your own heart on the rules, cause if we all decided the rules there would be about a million of them...


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Total posts: 3989
Posted:I second Santana II. But the suggestions are good too, as long as people don't expect every single suggestion to be taken up and then getting irate if it isn't.

Poor old Irate must be getting paranoid by now...


HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:where's the premiere gunne be? do i have to wear an evening gown?
/remembers to wax again this week.
hey on a serious note, are we gunna get a free cococut with every person, like in the premiere of 'Holy Grail'?

(me on a serious note? bah humbug! )


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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