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Whiffle Squeekaddict
416 posts
Location: Hartford, CT USA


Posted:


[ 11 September 2002, 13:16: Message edited by: Malcolm ]

Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!


nomadBRONZE Member
retired
356 posts
Location: Paris, France


Posted:
I really think a first-come first-serve criteria does not makes sense. As well as "no cuts no edits" and "no camera effect". This is why: it seems like there is a certain miscommunication or misunderstanding around the COL affair. Some people see it as the "Home of Poi compilation" (you send something half-decent or better, you'll be in), some people see it as "The Best of Fire Spinning". I would like it to be "The Best of Fire Spinning". Some people will be sad or angry because their footage won't be on the final tape. It will be a biased selection, mostly a judgement call for Malcolm and the other people who judge. But hey, that probably happens already when some people find out they did not win the competition.

Is the goal of the video to include every person who submits an entry, make everyone happy at the expense of the overall quality of the tape? Or is the goal to create a really bad-ass video, therefore pushing people to work hard not only on their individual skills but also on the production of the video? I am not sure whether the competition rewards the best fire spinner or the best video. Personnally, I would prefer the latter. Currently, it seems to me that Malcolm is doing the former. I am not saying that is a bad thing, but I think it is not clear to a lot of people.

There are two types of videos within COL: the "individual spinning" (such as - from previous COL tapes - Sage, Robert Michael, Shibaki, Xaeda, etc.) and the "fire videos" (such as Tribe of the Burning Sock, Hayobola, Skunk, Anthelion, Dimension 7). The later not only spin fire but also work on the setting and the editing. Don't get me wrong, again I'm not saying one is better than the other. I have been impressed and mesmerized by the 4 individual spinners I just mentionned. The two types are good, they just have a different purpose. Having people send out videos for what is at the same time a competition AND a call-to-entry for a video compilation creates the confusion.

Nomad

Bender_the_OffenderGOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
No matter how malcolm goes aboot it, I'll just say that:
In Malcolm we trust.
Thanks for throwing any vid compilation, oh he called Malc.
All's well that ends up well goes the refrain of my life!

shame about the no swinging rule tho ....

Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always


nomadBRONZE Member
retired
356 posts
Location: Paris, France


Posted:
quote:
Do we really want to see special effects and amazing editing work or pure good "live" performance?
It is hard to judge all the same with some having been editied and special effects added.
Or would you rather have two catagories?

Personnally, the video I watch matters more than the competition. I want to put the tape in my VCR, sit back, and be waowed by original moves, nice locations, and cool editing. I understand that, talking about the competition, it makes it harder to judge who's the best if we allow these things.

Again, I will appreciate more the overall work (i.e. spinning skill, filming quality, setting, editing) than a static camera on a fire spinner. But maybe that's just me.

Nomad

[Nx?]BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both


Posted:
Sounds great, when does it open?

N

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti


Mark PBRONZE Member
old hand
1,031 posts
Location: Bath, England


Posted:
Sounds good malcolm I am rigginf up the camera soon

[Nx?]BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both


Posted:
humm, it really depends if were having a 'spinning' competition or 'video'. Since the prizes are awarded for "best staff" and "best poi" I might sugest the former is the case.

weather you get 36 fivminute continious sets that are all intresting to watch (and i been bored wathcing col3 with cuts) is another matter, and it might be nice to re-cut footage for final presentation. I all depends on the product Malcom is trying to create.

N

p.s. and when is the next competition?

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti


CassandraFroggie ... Ribbit !!!
4,224 posts
Location: Back in Paris... for now !


Posted:
I think this is really good.
Malcolm !!!

Will there be an "other toys section" ? even with no actual prize, but just a chance to participate ?

as always much respect and love
Shine on
cassandra

"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"


nomadBRONZE Member
retired
356 posts
Location: Paris, France


Posted:
That sounds great!

I'm thinking the 36 limit might be high. Did you receive enough material for the recent COLs (2 and 3) to fill in 36 good slots? If yes, that's terrific. If not, why not leave it open and reserve the right to only put 25 in the final tape if you only get 25 good ones?

Just a thought...

Nomad

Mark PBRONZE Member
old hand
1,031 posts
Location: Bath, England


Posted:
Sounds great Malcolm.

I just have a quick question :

You say that any music used must have a written agreement from the artist. Most spinners will be able to produce a better set if they are dancing to music, however most of the music that we use will be impossible to get authorisation from. The Col4 video will have backing music where music can not be supplied by us (I assume).

Q. Do we know what music is going to be used? and can we submit a tape of us spinning to that music?

Thanks,

Mark

NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
I forgot to agree publicly with Nomad. I think editing should be allowed. It WILL be a better video to watch if people can self edit.

But I'm only one man with one vote.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


CharlesBRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand


Posted:
Editing - Defintely allow it. Personally, I think it should be compulsory.

Each video should be an edited version of no more than x minutes long. This means it's easier for the judges to see what ach contestant feels is the "good parts"

Sending in 45 minutes of unedited spinning will simply bore the judges, and make it more likely that some of the good parts will be missed because they fell asleep.

Imagine if 30 people sent in an hour each and another 10 sent in half an hour each. That makes for 35 hours non-stop of watching twirling, an exhausting request for anyone.

Each video is likely to be watched at least twice, and the finalist probably 4 or five times.

Suddenly we are looking at over 100 hours of solid sit-on-your-b*m-in-front-of-tv where every judge needs to be wide awake and alert for that 2 second bit where the perosn does something really cool.

If people don't edit their footage, then its their fault if it gets missed.

In my humble, married opinion...

HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Not really a suggestion for the video itself but why not just sell em in fourpack, ya know with a cool case or have the cases so that when you line em up its a pic of Malcolm or something *shrugs and walks off*

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


nomadBRONZE Member
retired
356 posts
Location: Paris, France


Posted:
quote:
I forgot to agree publicly with Nomad. I think editing should be allowed. It WILL be a better video to watch if people can self edit.

But I'm only one man with one vote.
And all this time, I thought I was fighting the battle all alone... Thanks bro.

Nomad
A.N.T.H.E.L.I.O.N
www.anthelion.net

DJ DantanaBRONZE Member
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA


Posted:
nix?
Member
Member # 800
posted 25 September 2002 10:38                    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
yes and yes.
im not to hot on the judging myself, just you wait, grrrr.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Well, fair warning nix?, I have been working hard on my contact staff

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!


DJ DantanaBRONZE Member
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA


Posted:
I like the way the rules are developing. I look forward to not having to watch people that suck as bad as I did on COL 1.....

Well actually, I haven't seen anybody on any of the videos that sucked that bad, so I guess it is a moot point....

I feel Malcolm shouldn't be under obligation to include EVERYBODY...... or to leave tape unedited. It is his production, after all, he is making this thing, and we should all be very grateful to him for that, I know I am.

And I realy like the idea of stiff competition...makes the overall video of a higher standard. We want to end up with something that makes it BIG, like hollywood big, and the way to do that is by having performers that are of the HIGHEST skill. Even so, everybody should feel incouraged to send in a video, and not be diswaded, as the chances are that they will make it onto the video (unless there are a million entries...) is pretty good.

P.S. Nix?, I loved your contact staff work on COL 3

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!


jvolmember
1 post

Posted:
hmm..

The length range may be too broad. 5 minutes is long for single-act video. 3 or 4 minutes should be plenty for best-of.. 1.5 to 3.5 minutes?

more importantly, I don't like the intensely-competitive, winner-takes all bit, with one person in each catgry taking home 500 bucks, and the second and all the rest taking away nothing.

what about something more like 250 for the winner, 100 for 2nd, and 20-25 for everybody else that qualifies for the tape? adds up the same, but fewer losers..

everybody that qualifies to be on a tape thats sold should make *something*.

Other tweaks to consider:
dividing the individual spinner catgrys between male & female. (easier to judge)
the 'editted' prizes being more, since thats more trouble to produce. might even make the "editted" into an "edited group/ensemble" catgry

just my 2 cents..

JaedenGOLD Member
member
220 posts
Location: Edmonton, Canada


Posted:
@jvol:

5 minuits may be too long for some performances, but I have seen spinners who I could watch for hours.

In my experiance, poi is not an intensively-competitive activity, there are many good spinners out there though. Now this is just my opinion but I believe that the prize is only there as a bonus, not as the target. I don't see the need for more than one prize. Were there no prizes at all I don't think the skill level of the video wouldn't be as high, and therefore would make for a more borring watch, however if you start to add more prizes then you may get into trouble deciding who places where. After a point it becomes realy hard, verging on impossible, to decide the better of two spinners. I imagine Malcolm has enough dificulty choosing the winners as is.

Everyone who makes the video gets a free copy. All the procedes from video sales go back into this site to make it the best it can be I see no problems here.

I like the no editing categories (mostly because I can't edit to save my life). I thought Malcolm said that on each submission you need to specify which 5 minuit segment was your favourite. I guess I interpreted this to mean that only those 5 minuits would be looked at with regards to your entry. Could I have this clarified? Also, will there be any executive editing, or will the video clip appear on col4 as it was received at the HOP?

One final question, this for Malcolm.
You said that you had great dificulty matching music to spinning on the last video. Now that you will have un-edited entries, will people who supply thier own music have a better chance of making the video?

[ 07 October 2002, 02:02: Message edited by: Jaeden ]

The world is not out to get you but if you fight it you will be eaten alive


Goddess_Of_Pyremember
107 posts
Location: Michigan, USA


Posted:
On the time limit topic..I have a suggestion. Instead of just one video for col4 try a set...meaning...honorable menstions to everyone who enters of like 30 seconds also with the card insert the boxes with info inside.( this could be exclusively included with a DVD version only if you do DVD and VHS versions of COL) The actual winners will be fewer but they will recieve a longer time frame of video footage shown on the actual DVD/VHS. The feedback cards I like..if everyone will respond..that could prove vital feedback for future videos to make future installments of COL to become better. The music though.....How do I put this? I didn't care for the music choice on any of COL I own (sorry) Also..theres ALOT of Electro, LED, and Glo performers becoming more apparent...what about a totally seperate contest and video for them? just a suggestion. Let me know if you need any help for the future installment of COL. I am more then glad to help in any way I can. Also, what about a video segment on just live performances for those of whom, who are actually publicly performing or the many now fire friendly events around the world. I am more then happy to provide some footage of the many shows we have footage of.

And all my days are trances And all my nightly dreamsAre where thy gray eye glances And where thy footstep gleams-In what ethereal dances By what eternal streams. Edgar Allan PoeThe prophet is a fool and the religious man is fucking mad, and for the multitude of your sense and your inequity, and the great hatred......NANCY BOY


DJ DantanaBRONZE Member
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA


Posted:
I belive the reason for wanting uncut footage relates to the fact that a person could take an hour of footage, with a thousand mistakes and edit it down to a five minute tape with no mistakes and all bad ass moves. Which is sort of cheating in a way, because in a real life performance you need to make it all the way through a spin with bad ass moves and NO mistakes. So, as much as I would like to edit out my mistakes and have a tape of all my bad ass stuff, with no mistakes, I almost always either end up making a mistake before I finish a run of all my best stuff, or I forget to include something I really like, so either way, I'm screwed. I think unedited footage gives a better representation of a persons true skill.
Editing footage is also imposible for some people based on lack of equipment (and money to buy equipment) just as there are awsome musicians out there who cannot submit music becaue of a lack of equipment.

Skunk,

you are very skillful, and I like your style, but as I recall, there were some questions asked on previouse COL videos about editing. I belive contestants were suposed to have one long continuouse segments, (full runs) not taking the best from several runs and splicing it into one run.

You have exreamly good technical skills, but part of the contest was not based on technical skill, but on style and movement (dance) and energy, whick allowed shibaki to win without doing even one BTB weave....

(ps)

Malcolm, you have to listen to your own heart on the rules, cause if we all decided the rules there would be about a million of them...

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!


CharlesBRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand


Posted:
I second Santana II. But the suggestions are good too, as long as people don't expect every single suggestion to be taken up and then getting irate if it isn't.

Poor old Irate must be getting paranoid by now...

HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?


Bender_the_OffenderGOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
where's the premiere gunne be? do i have to wear an evening gown?
/remembers to wax again this week.
hey on a serious note, are we gunna get a free cococut with every person, like in the premiere of 'Holy Grail'?

(me on a serious note? bah humbug! )

Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always


LuNcHbOx...(Aka. Nathan)-un-singlemember
536 posts
Location: beneath a cloak of self-torture


Posted:
hehehe...i loved that premier.....
the movie waz better though....

-LuNcHbOx, Aka. Nathan...Give a man to fish, and that man knows where to come for more fish...Teach a man to fish and you have just destroyed your market base...


breakerBRONZE Member
member
36 posts
Location: the burning river styx, USA


Posted:
santanatwo
Member
Member # 525

posted 09. October 2002 07:49
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I belive the reason for wanting uncut footage relates to the fact that a person could take an hour of footage, with a thousand mistakes and edit it down to a five minute tape with no mistakes and all bad ass moves. Which is sort of cheating in a way, because in a real life performance you need to make it all the way through a spin with bad ass moves and NO mistakes. So, as much as I would like to edit out my mistakes and have a tape of all my bad ass stuff, with no mistakes, I almost always either end up making a mistake before I finish a run of all my best stuff, or I forget to include something I really like, so either way, I'm screwed. I think unedited footage gives a better representation of a persons true skill.
--------------------------------------------------

i fully agree with all that. i mean if everyone sent in an edited video of only their best stuff then it would be a lil harder to judge. now if you tape your whole 1 - 5 minutes and send it in as is and malcom wants to edit it then that's great. please people, don't be afraid to let us see you fu** up. it's only human. i mean i've been spinning or like 2 years now and i still tangle my strings/chains, yes i still use glowstix, and still hit myself. but i think that if i mess up then i was meant to for some reason. so enough of my ranting.

"our love withers here and dies
the story had to end in blood"

"You will not feel pain near the end, my dear
Your memory shall remain with me
As I weep upon your grave
My love...

My love..."


DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
Does anyone else think this is getting just a teensy-weensy bit over-complicated?

Definately we need rules, and yes, these should include regulations for the content and type of material provided - but for first time entrants (Myself, possibly included ) this is all becoming a bit daunting.

I personally don't believe Self-editting should be compuslory, for the simple fact that I doubt many people have the technology or the ability to do it. I for one am having difficulty just tracking down a camera, let alone an editing suite or whatever.

If you can; great, do it, it'll make the judges life easier - but you can't descriminate against people who don't have the means to do this.

When it comes down to music - it could be worth searching through free music sights (eg www.mp3.com ) and searching for something you like. As most of the bands on there are either amateur or semi-pro, I doubt they'd have much objection to free publiicty of their music, and some of it is very good.

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


RicheeBRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic


Posted:
I think I understand all of us .Isnt now vid compilation for those who havent knew how to continue in this arts,but heartily want?To help em,show new stiles,ways?...Twirl 3 years about till now.Im one of...

POI THEO(R)IST


Danomanmember
1 post
Location: Maine, USA


Posted:
What's up to my new friends? I'm obviously new at this forum, but, I can'twist' with the best(well, really, I just started about 8 months ago). WOW, what an art form... We,(me and my wife) saw this last year at Clearwater Beach, and what a sigh... We both looked at each other and, without words, said, Damnit, this is what I'm going to learn. It's awesome, what a workout... We have some 'mixing' programs that really work for 'our' taste. We have joined a 'news group' and we are enjoying some state of the art releases from artists.(the only way to 'be able to afford to do this with three kids). I am out there to challenge ANYONE to 'twisting', but, I am a 'cool' challenge, and will bow to someone better than me. I WANT TEACHING!!! I am completely willing to show anyone what I have learned, This is such an artform that people just don't understand, how? You can always be pretty in what you do, but, can you also be deadly, and pretty at the same time?(I think so). Try me, and see if I can get any better??!! Please??!!!

poiaholic22member
531 posts

Posted:
WHOA!I was just thinking yesterday that "I wonder if anyone in Maine spins?" How ironic.

I think some people on this board need to stop worrying about the rules and need to go find themselves a camera.You've only got two more months.

DJ DantanaBRONZE Member
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA


Posted:
Instead of 3 big prizes and only a few winners...what about getting back to basics. Have slightly smaller prizes, but everybody who sends in a video gets a copy, and everybody featured on the video gets TWO copies...? That way, in a way, everybody wins. (just a thought) maybe I just like the idea of getting two copies, so I can loan one to people, you know, to spread the art!?!?!?

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!


JeStErSILVER Member
enthusiast
214 posts
Location: Melbourne Australia


Posted:
Ok Malcolm so everybody that sends in a video for the comp gets a copy of COL4, and people featured on it get 2 copys.

What price tag do the winners get? I personnally think $200 USD worth of equipment is a better figure as it's enough to buy the most expensive thing I could find in the shop, those 'ultima swinging tubes' if you want them.

But if doing both of the above things could leave you short for putting money back into this site etc then it's not worth it, so what's the plan?

Trying to play the Akashic records,
but my turntables not compatible.


DioHoP Mechanical Engineer
729 posts
Location: OK, USA


Posted:
Quick idea about the video setup itself... could the "winners" be mentioned on the video itself, like a sort of top-ten countdown? Obviously a viewer's choice would have to come after the video release, but a countdown could be a nice suspense builder and put a neat spin on the CoL video format. Would also make things a bit simpler in terms of announcing the winners, since I recall a bit of confusion has occurred in the past when the winners were posted on the boards or what have you.

Maybe also have Malcolm film some short transitional sections between performances of himself saying what he liked about that particular submission? He could be like the MTV Carson Daly of fire spinning... hehehe j/k Malcolm but you understand what I'm saying?

What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.


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